Ah ok, will check that out.

All of the locked features, the phasing, everything cliche MMO 2008 is bad enough.

Slapping TES name on, at best, an attempt to use features from DAOC was a bad move. As pointed out the elves look as generic as the rest of this game.

Bethesda will make a real Elder Scrolls game soon after the next Fallout game hopefully. Help wash the piss out of our eyes that ESO is raining down.

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

All of the locked features, the phasing, everything cliche MMO 2008 is bad enough.

Slapping TES name on, at best, an attempt to use features from DAOC was a bad move. As pointed out the elves look as generic as the rest of this game.

Bethesda will make a real Elder Scrolls game soon after the next Fallout game hopefully. Help wash the piss out of our eyes that ESO is raining down.

Seriously, did i miss TESO release already? because everyone seem to know exactly how the game is, and played it....

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Vorgarag109

If ESO wen't by the book on a TES game it would not live long. GET over it.

I won't go into to much detail on it.

 

But how many of you actually were a BAD guy in TES?

You would then know that as a Bad guy you could Steal/Murder people in town and if done right get away with it. 

But how would that fit in a MMO that had no locked  factions no where was Safe(Theres guards but they are next to Useless) and PvP Enabled everywhere Oh and your corpse can be Picked clean of all items? I don't think that would Rollover to well specially if their is only 1 server. But all of those Features are in TES games. 

People would have no Idea how to start or do anything in such a game. New Players would constantly be Penalized just for joining into the game late. Not to Mention you'd have to deal with Evil Guilds.

 

 

A few questions.

Why would a player be able to steal/murder other players anywhere other then the cetral PvP hub?

Why are there no safe area's?

Why are guards useless?

Why is PvP enabled everywhere?

Why can a characters corpse be picked clean?

And when have you EVER been able to do ANY of those things to another player in a TES game?

 

 

 Did u play TES at all?Its a Single Player game. But In TES it gives Players Complete Freedom on how they choose to Interact with the World.

If TES was a MMO it be more like UO then WoW. except in TES Guards acted like regular NPCs. Rather then Appear out of No where and just Wham you dead like in UO.

All those Things Listed Above are things you can do to NPC's in TES why wouldn't u be able to do them to other players? Specially Since you are suppose to choose how you interact with things in TES not be Restricted by invisible Rules that make no sense in such a Free world.

Personally I would find such a Free World like Singleplayer TES Games fun in a MMO but however I know such games would be to Harsh. since well not everyone agrees with others playstyles.

TESO had to make changes to make sure it has a good lifespan. and large playerbase so it can be considered a MMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

For me ESO looks really good so far . Three separate realms worked really well in DAOC and im sure will work for eso too , There would be no reason to wage war for Cyrodiil if everyone magically could become friendly and travel all over the world to explore , war is war borders are closed !  no class system works well in single player game but in mmo ... no restrictions would mean bunch of superior clones running around with all skills at 100 .

PS . hawing ~ 5 characters in daoc till lvl 20 is not playing daoc  its more like testing it for a weekend or smthng . Get to rr5 at least then your oppinion about game mechanics will be legitimate .

The panic preaching volume knob certainly seems to be set on "high".

When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

Originally posted by Quaiden

Your information is so lacking I feel your opinion is not well developed enough for you to have posted this topic. Let me provide you with a link to a FAQ about the development with full annotations from which you can verify the information stated in the FAQ.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

One you look at this you might want to re-evaluate your postition. The devs have said from the very beginning they do not want an MMORPG TES game but a TES game you can play with your friends.

 Let's jsut wait until we get closer to launch and get more beta info before we say who is right and who is wrong...... The devs say alot of things in every game and often it doesn't come to fruition.

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Originally posted by Vorgarag109
But how many of you actually were a BAD guy in TES?

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I have, And ive also played a character that morally "righteous".

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You would then know that as a Bad guy you could Steal/Murder people in town and if done right get away with it.

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Right, But there is a system in place to combat that right? Guards. Guards in cities and mainroads, Perfect way to make this work is the eve online system. Although not perfect it would help keep the law in high density 'safer zones.'

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But how would that fit in a MMO that had no locked factions no where was Safe(Theres guards but they are next to Useless) and PvP Enabled everywhere

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There is nothing in the way of tuning guards strength and density to accommodate for the 'trails' of an mmorpg.

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Oh and your corpse can be Picked clean of all items? I don't think that would Rollover to well specially if their is only 1 server. But all of those Features are in TES games.

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In tes, You don't always get whats on the character. You might have a boss with some cool looking weapon or armor and he drops a potion and 8 coin...

Again Using the Eve System (which is no way a definitive system and others could do just as well) you could use a "chance" to drop an item from your inventory as well as some gold.(whats the difference, most mmorps try and nickle and dime you at the repair vendor why not give that cash to another player?)

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People would have no Idea how to start or do anything in such a game. New Players would constantly be Penalized just for joining into the game late. Not to Mention you'd have to deal with Evil Guilds.

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With the right type of tutorials or rather, "guides" you should be able to educate a player quickly and non intrusively on the metrics of your game.

Originally posted by nate1980

I'm going to point out features that are common among all TES games that I've played (Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim) and compare them to what ESO is offering. At least then we can have a basis for discussion on whether or not ESO is actually a TES game.

Character Creation

TES Games - Allows you to pick all races, either gender, and allows extensive character customization.

ESO - No word yet as far as I know, but I'm sure it'll have an extensive character customization template. You can't pick Imperial. Elves look Tolkien instead of TES Elves.

Good because TES elves look like crap, and Tolkien male elves are cool and female elves are beautiful.

Character Progression

TES Games - Free form skill-based progression. Specialize in whichever skills you want, can max out all skills if you want, and can make any manner of character you want.

ESO - Class-based system, although loosely class-based. Not sure if you can use any combination of skills that you want. For example, can you use my favorite combination of skills (Heavy Armor, Swords, Destruction Magic, Restoration Magic, Lockpicking, Mercantile, and Speechcraft)?

You cant max out every skill in Skyrim.

 

Combat

TES Games - Twitch combat for magic, melee, and ranged. No hotbars. No abilities to use other than power attacks.

ESO - Twitch combat as far as I know. Hotbar. Abilities you can use. Elite ability. In other words, they are melding TES and GW2 combat together.

Lets see skyrim... Stop game, Select Fireball, use Fireball with mouse, Stop game, Select sword in right hand, use sword... wow... really? Did you really want an mmo like that?

 

World Exploration and Interaction

TES Games - You can explore the entire map. You can interact with anything in the world. Dungeons and Buildings are instanced. Your character is neutral and has the option, but isn't forced, to join various guilds and factions. 

ESO - You can only explore the lands belonging to the faction you're forced to choose at character creation. The world will be split into zones. The zones will be split up into instances. Dungeons will be instanced. No word as far as I know of buildings being instanced. The commonly known guilds will be in the game and joinable from what I heard. Not sure about the Dark Brotherhood though. Not sure if you can rise to in power in all the various guilds and factions like you can in TES games. You're forced to choose a faction.

Theres no other player faction in TES games. And in TESO the "alliances are at war" something you've never seen in TES games. You dont go see Berlin just because you want to take a stroll if you're at war with germany.

 

Quests and Content

TES Games - You have to interact with NPC's to get quests, there's no icon over their head. Quests aren't linear, nor are they level specific. You don't have to do any quests at all. There are side quests, faction quests, guild quests, and a main storyline. Dungeons are dangerous, dark, keep you on your toes, have traps, and require lockpicking or some magic that can unlock hidden areas and chests.

ESO - No idea if there will be an icon or not above NPC's heads. No idea if quests are level specific and if mobs and etc scale to your level. No idea if quests will be linear or not. There will be public quests like GW2. Dungeons will be public and some will be private ( i think). No idea if they will be run and gun dungeons like in typical themeparks, or if they'll be like TES game dungeons. Will have RvR.

If you have no idea, dont comment.

 

Housing and Mounts

TES Games - You can buy a house and decorate it. You can buy a horse, which can die. 

ESO - No housing. No idea about mounts and if they have them, if they can die. 

Housing will be there after lauch - this guy made daoc, he knows about housing and he said it will be there. For the horses, again; If you have no idea for mounts, dont comment.

 

 

My Analysis

Some core features have either been changed or not included at all. For example, you cannot choose the Imperial race, cannot explore the entire map, cannot have a house, they modified combat to appeal to the GW2 crowd along with questing, class-based instead of skill-based, and zoned off the world and made multiple copies of the same zone.

IMHO, all those things have made ESO more of a MMO than it is a TES game. Hell, it can barely be called a TES now. There's no reason the developers couldn't of taken all the features and game mechanics from TES series and ported them into the MMO environment. There's no rulebook that says MMO's have to have such and such features and be made a certain way. The only rules for a MMO is that they allow you to play with thousands of other people at any given time, and that the world is persistent.

A lot of people are psyched about ESO because it'll have RvR, a throwback to the DAoC days. As an original DAoC player, I would love a DAoC 2 or another original IP that uses that formula, but as a TES fan, I expect a TES MMORPG to be just like all the other TES games I've played.

This is why I personally am not excited to play ESO. In fact, I'm the opposite of excited when it comes to ESO. ESO may turn out to be a good game, but ESO fans cannot ignore the fact that they took all the features and mechanics found in TES series and either changed them or didn't include them in ESO, thus making it NOT a TES series game.

Your "analysis" is void because you mentioned 1 point you obviously have bad taste, 1 point you're wrong, 1 point you really didnt put much thought into it, 1 point you dont think of the actual setting of the game lore, and 2 points you have no idea about. Yet you can come to an analysis - Awesome.

 

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by winghaven1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp0ykvotEI

 

Just gonna throw that in here. 

Thanks for the link. I stopped listening to it after he said it was going to be like WoW where you get to a new area, collect some quests, and the world changes phases as you complete the main story. TES games did not have this and they were fun.

While you stopped reading there, I stopped reading here - remember the Oblivion quest in Kvatch? The world changed. Plus this is a double edge sword.

In mmos for instance I hate when I kill "Lord Asfsajdnaggar" and when I look again, Lord Lord Asfsajdnaggar respawned. That breaks my immersion. So yes phasing is good... I kill Lord Lord Asfsajdnaggar he wont be there anymore for me but if you didnt kill him, he will be there for you...

Sounds good actually.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's not tes6. Tes6 will be another game entirely.

TESO is a mmo within the same universe, but its not a sequel to skyrim and its not supposed to be.

Also be wary of what you wish for, swtor stuck closely to the kotor formula and added a few mmo features like instanced dungeons and mini game pvp, and it turned out to be both an inferior single player game to kotor and a terrible mmo. Uo is nothing like the original ultima rpgs and is regarded as a good mmo.

I kinda disagree about SWTOR, which is what I'm subbed to and playing right now. The bad parts of the game are the parts that Bioware put into the game to try and draw the MMO audience. They didn't stick closely enough to KoToR's features and mechanics. The class stories themselves were good, but they watered down the game with an OMG amount of mundane side quests and restrictive classes. The same way Bethesda is watering down ESO by stealing ideas from GW2 and taking away features and mechanics that's been apart of TES series since Morrowind.

I dont agree that they are watering it down at all tbh, they are changing some things sure but not watering them down, for instance the progression system, in tes games you use fireball and you level up that entire school (destruction) of magic, in teso you fireball and it levels up that specific spell and that applies to every spell, ability, weapon type and armor type, so I would say thats actually deeper rather than watered down

In overall world design the game resembles a DAOC setup. That may not be the case when it comes to individual areas. They could turn out like TES, or other MMO's full of blocked paths, I'm not sure how they'll look and feel.

Combat resembles TES by description. Basic functionality seems to be exactly what you find in TES games from a Third person perspective. Can't say about FP. L. click to swing, hold to charge a swing, R.click to block.- an important element in capturing the feel of a game.

Questing by description also resembles a TES design. Exploration being a priority, as well as using TES staples. Which are best described as always placing something on the horizon to catch your eye. WHo doesn't suffer a bit of ADD when exploring and questing in a TES world? That's mostly a byproduct of their world design philosophy which is explained in many of their CS tutorials.-another important element in capturing the feel of a TES game.

There's also the use of lasting effects from actions while playing the game.

The way they allow a player to use any weapon, armor or magic, is another element that resembles TES's approach.

PVP is inspired by DAOC.

Classes are not (seemingly) inspired by a tes phiolsophy. -an important element in capturing the feel of a TES game.

Player ability to be a criminal and systems in place to thwart them? I'm not sure TBH.

~My summation based on the Info available.~

 

 

The way questing works in tes single player isn't that different to daoc actually. Daoc isn't a hub grinder in the vein of wow. If you've not played daoc, the closest game to it pve wise is EQ, although daoc is quite a bit better on the spawn camping front, has a few long quests akin to ac and resisted putting instances in much better than EQ (it only has a few instances and they all came about with catacombs very late in the game)

Originally posted by nate1980

At least then we can have a basis for discussion on whether or not ESO is actually a TES game.

When does this bit start instead of instantly discounting anything that doesnt fit into your personal (preformed) opinion..sorry 'analysis'.....

this is going to probably sound completely dumb but what about us waiting at least until beta reviews before we start either attacking or defending this one?

 

just for a change?

Of course it's a TES game.

But it's a MMORPG, different rules apply.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No you get a pve world to explore on your first character, then if you make a 2nd or 3rd character you get an entirely different world to explore. At least thats how it works

Think you mean region....the world of Tamriel includes all the regions that TESO contains. Any single character can only explore 40% of the world. So you can explore a part of the world, but never all of it on a single character. Sort of like the F2P concept in some games where you have to pay to get the rest of the game, only in TESO you have to level up an entirely different character to the the next 30% of the world...and then another character the see the remaining 30%.

I wish you would stop with the 3 games in 1 crap. it isn't 3 games in 1, you are just restricted to playing 1/3 of the game on each character. Big difference (and this is from an altaholic so while I love alts the way it is done in TESO is retarded. If that is how it was done in DAOC then that was retarded too (can't remember) and probably why I left the game and why it didn't really do well).

Its exactly how it was done in DAoC and its exactly how it will foster the best form of PvP and no DAoC was consistently randked higher and had more population then Everquest at the time of its popularity shift.  It was the #1 MMO on the market at the time of its height.

Originally posted by itchmon

this is going to probably sound completely dumb but what about us waiting at least until beta reviews before we start either attacking or defending this one?

 

just for a change?

And you're right but for the next months the NDA will be strict.

If its got tes on the box its a tes game.

Now whether it matches the tes mmo you imagined in your head is an entirely different matter. Only time will tell, but probably not.

In my opinion most of the new games produced in the last two years failed because of their high end play, or should I say lack of high end play.  The high end of TES really doesn't convert well to what would make a MMO player stay tuned in, in reality most of us who played TES would just make a new character instead.  The three realm part brings a since of belonging and care for ones side that gives some real meaning to the end game.  I find myself competely unmotivated to keep playing a character just to do the same high end dungeons/raids for high end equipment, just to repeat the process over and over again.  On the other hand defending a town/keep/dungeon for my side does get me motivated to keep on playing at the high end.  If they are smart they will put all the options in for the high end including good crafting and non-combat things like entertainers to give each of us something to play for.