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Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
Distribution: | Retail Price:$59.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
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20 posts found
  Karliar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/04
Posts: 19

 
OP  1/29/13 12:16:35 PM#1

Anyone have a suggestion for making a heart-racing death penalty in ESO?

I know there will be lots of people wanting no penalty at all.  But I want to hear from those who have played a game with a harsh penalty and enjoyed it.  Anyone old-timers remember the vanilla version of Gemstone 3 where the only way your body was re-animated was if one of your friends dragged you to a cleric?

 

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

1/29/13 12:23:42 PM#2

I picture it more like a carebear environment, similar to Guild Wars 2, where death is meaningless.  ESO is more of a single player themepark ride with PVP as endgame, so I couldn't see Zenimax going out of their way to frustrate the type of audience attracted to this game.

 

In a different kind of MMORPG, harsh penalties fit nicely though.  Not mainstream themepark games though.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

1/29/13 12:30:54 PM#3

I dont think a harsh death system is good for most online games tbh

There should be some penalty to encourage improvement but have it too harsh and you run the risk of them not wanting to continue.

When I was at school (many years ago) I would get cained for doing something I shouldnt and that would (or at least should) put me off doing it ever again, however if i got a question wrong in the same class they would show me where i went wrong and encourage me to try again

  alterfenix

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 335

1/29/13 5:54:20 PM#4
Originally posted by deakon

I dont think a harsh death system is good for most online games tbh

There should be some penalty to encourage improvement but have it too harsh and you run the risk of them not wanting to continue.

When I was at school (many years ago) I would get cained for doing something I shouldnt and that would (or at least should) put me off doing it ever again, however if i got a question wrong in the same class they would show me where i went wrong and encourage me to try again

Well that depends on a balance tbh. Make it so gear is hard to get, player drops one item that took them weeks to get and will take weeks to get another time (but because of balance item is simply required to be noticeable endgame player) then player simply leaves. Make it so there is a full loot but when player dies it takes relatively small amount of gold + under one hour to get it all back and that's a bit different story already.

To OP. There is really no need to give suggestions, the only thing that they have to do is to take a look how it was done in themeparks even those 4-5 years ago (that includes also WoW before WotLK). Death noticeable (time consuming to run back to corpse, gold consuming to repair, etc) but still it wasn't kind of blocker.

As for PvP not sure if any kind of penalty players would really wont in a long run (and not sure if any kind of it would work here). Perhaps with an exception of stuff such as having to run/ride all the way back after respawn so i.e. no respawns in keeps while defending and keeps far enough from any respawn points available (for both attackers and defenders). And no way to shorten such penalties i.e. no ability to port back to keep at least while there is some action going on there (although to be fair porting in RvR should not be available at all).

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 252

1/29/13 9:27:01 PM#5

For PVP maybe a hard stat-down res sick for 15 minutes or something (curable by healer npc paying for it of course)

For PVE... xp loss ftw! And item degradation, loss of stats, having to go repair armor and to a healer to repair stats - all of these paying also.

  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5827

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

1/29/13 9:32:46 PM#6
the harshest death penalty i have experienced beside exp loss is random gear drop.... Thankfully nobody was near to pick up the loot and run away. Im not for harsh penalties, but no penalties at all can be a bit boring since you wouldnt matter being careless and die 1000 times and run back.

  Ambros123

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 891

1/29/13 9:36:33 PM#7

Death penalty (or lack of) is already decided and in place.

/end thread

  LongLivePvP

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/13
Posts: 104

1/29/13 10:35:19 PM#8
What is the death penalty??

Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

1/29/13 10:48:34 PM#9
You can hear them talk about the death penalty at the end of this podcast its the most recent on on the that link.
  danwest58

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 597

1/29/13 11:00:33 PM#10

Hey OP why dont you wake up and smell the coffee, the average MMO players is 36ish or so and the average aged mmo player is 6 times larger than the younger crowd.  People in this age bracket have full time jobs, families and many other things to be concerned about than an MMO.  Making harsh death penalties will do nothing than drive off the largest population.  An MMO is a business and will not take a suggestion that drives off a large player base just because some person wants to teach a person a lesson. 

I started playing MMOs with UO in 1998, Played SWG, and FFXI all had harsh death penalties.  All were fun at the time, all I played when I lived in my parent’s basement between the ages of 18 to 23.  After I grew up and got out on my own, started having a career to worry about, and education to further my career MMOs became free time that was the last thing on my list and still is.  If I played MMOs like this today I would just quit.  If you cost me weeks’ worth of work or even an hour farming for gold just because I died for whatever reason I will just quit the game and cancel my subscript.  Why?  Simple if my 7 month old daughter wakes up screaming and I am playing a game like UO where I lose the last hour worth of gold farming because I need to go running to see if she is ok that game can take a flying shit for itself. 

No the death penalties we have had since WoW will do just fine for MMOs now a days.  Going back to an archaic time where you needed to be beaten with a cane is just foolish.  Why do you think few people want to play Salem online or Mortal Online?  Because life is greater than any video/computer game.

  User Deleted
1/30/13 12:32:44 AM#11
Originally posted by danwest58

Hey OP why dont you wake up and smell the coffee, the average MMO players is 36ish or so and the average aged mmo player is 6 times larger than the younger crowd.  People in this age bracket have full time jobs, families and many other things to be concerned about than an MMO.  Making harsh death penalties will do nothing than drive off the largest population.  An MMO is a business and will not take a suggestion that drives off a large player base just because some person wants to teach a person a lesson. 

I started playing MMOs with UO in 1998, Played SWG, and FFXI all had harsh death penalties.  All were fun at the time, all I played when I lived in my parent’s basement between the ages of 18 to 23.  After I grew up and got out on my own, started having a career to worry about, and education to further my career MMOs became free time that was the last thing on my list and still is.  If I played MMOs like this today I would just quit.  If you cost me weeks’ worth of work or even an hour farming for gold just because I died for whatever reason I will just quit the game and cancel my subscript.  Why?  Simple if my 7 month old daughter wakes up screaming and I am playing a game like UO where I lose the last hour worth of gold farming because I need to go running to see if she is ok that game can take a flying shit for itself. 

No the death penalties we have had since WoW will do just fine for MMOs now a days.  Going back to an archaic time where you needed to be beaten with a cane is just foolish.  Why do you think few people want to play Salem online or Mortal Online?  Because life is greater than any video/computer game.

To me this is why the MMORPG genre has turned into something I no longer have interest in. I have faith in it once again, but no game to really say I have huge desires to dig into.

Yeah, I know, I have no time to play long hard and grind heavy MMORPGs like Dark Age of Camelot again, but I want other people, younger people, to enjoy the same experience I had. I also want to experience it again some day. I don't know when. Maybe when I retire in my old age. Maybe I'll find time some way.

Since no one makes them anymore like that, with nearly 50 something or so classes, hundreds of abilities for each, with the better computers and graphics we have now we could have been moving into deeper combat systems and stuff. Instead it all went in reverse. Shallower and shallower, less classes, less abilities, moving towards action combat with only a couple attacks and not much customization and to compensate for people's disinterest in the genre, throw in politics and social tools (duct tape?). To me it's like the smart phones and consoles are innovating new technologies but also setting PCs back but with MMOs.

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2437

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

1/30/13 12:43:56 AM#12
Originally posted by Karteli

I picture it more like a carebear environment, similar to Guild Wars 2, where death is meaningless.  ESO is more of a single player themepark ride with PVP as endgame, so I couldn't see Zenimax going out of their way to frustrate the type of audience attracted to this game.

 

In a different kind of MMORPG, harsh penalties fit nicely though.  Not mainstream themepark games though.

Hey Karteli, here's a thought: Why don't you avoid ALL ESO discussion for now on since you are clearly a hater and have already made up your mind that you aren't gong to like the game.

I think it would do everybody a service to stop hearing your constant QQ.  You want a fantasy sandbox?  Fine: go play UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online, or any of those other gems.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

1/30/13 5:10:32 AM#13

Far better than a 'death penalty' is a 'life bonus'.

Have a 'self-confidence' meter which gives bonuses in PvE, and have this erroded away each time you go down until it dissapears. Then have it creep back during play if things go well.

Make it an acheivement to play and not die... make it a moderate one in open world PvE and a larger benefit in dungeons etc.

Balance it right and it will be a celebrated part of the game, not a pain in the ass... 

  User Deleted
1/30/13 5:20:31 AM#14
Originally posted by Plasmicredx
Originally posted by danwest58

Hey OP why dont you wake up and smell the coffee, the average MMO players is 36ish or so and the average aged mmo player is 6 times larger than the younger crowd.  People in this age bracket have full time jobs, families and many other things to be concerned about than an MMO.  Making harsh death penalties will do nothing than drive off the largest population.  An MMO is a business and will not take a suggestion that drives off a large player base just because some person wants to teach a person a lesson. 

I started playing MMOs with UO in 1998, Played SWG, and FFXI all had harsh death penalties.  All were fun at the time, all I played when I lived in my parent’s basement between the ages of 18 to 23.  After I grew up and got out on my own, started having a career to worry about, and education to further my career MMOs became free time that was the last thing on my list and still is.  If I played MMOs like this today I would just quit.  If you cost me weeks’ worth of work or even an hour farming for gold just because I died for whatever reason I will just quit the game and cancel my subscript.  Why?  Simple if my 7 month old daughter wakes up screaming and I am playing a game like UO where I lose the last hour worth of gold farming because I need to go running to see if she is ok that game can take a flying shit for itself. 

No the death penalties we have had since WoW will do just fine for MMOs now a days.  Going back to an archaic time where you needed to be beaten with a cane is just foolish.  Why do you think few people want to play Salem online or Mortal Online?  Because life is greater than any video/computer game.

To me this is why the MMORPG genre has turned into something I no longer have interest in. I have faith in it once again, but no game to really say I have huge desires to dig into.

Yeah, I know, I have no time to play long hard and grind heavy MMORPGs like Dark Age of Camelot again, but I want other people, younger people, to enjoy the same experience I had. I also want to experience it again some day. I don't know when. Maybe when I retire in my old age. Maybe I'll find time some way.

Since no one makes them anymore like that, with nearly 50 something or so classes, hundreds of abilities for each, with the better computers and graphics we have now we could have been moving into deeper combat systems and stuff. Instead it all went in reverse. Shallower and shallower, less classes, less abilities, moving towards action combat with only a couple attacks and not much customization and to compensate for people's disinterest in the genre, throw in politics and social tools (duct tape?). To me it's like the smart phones and consoles are innovating new technologies but also setting PCs back but with MMOs.

Indeed, these WoW kiddos would prolly rage quit and lock themself in, if they would play UO, Like we did in -97 and forward. Dead, looted,humiliated and running back to town with bare skin to get a resurrection.

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 252

1/30/13 11:03:49 AM#15
Originally posted by danwest58

Hey OP why dont you wake up and smell the coffee, the average MMO players is 36ish or so and the average aged mmo player is 6 times larger than the younger crowd.  People in this age bracket have full time jobs, families and many other things to be concerned about than an MMO.  Making harsh death penalties will do nothing than drive off the largest population.  An MMO is a business and will not take a suggestion that drives off a large player base just because some person wants to teach a person a lesson. 

I started playing MMOs with UO in 1998, Played SWG, and FFXI all had harsh death penalties.  All were fun at the time, all I played when I lived in my parent’s basement between the ages of 18 to 23.  After I grew up and got out on my own, started having a career to worry about, and education to further my career MMOs became free time that was the last thing on my list and still is.  If I played MMOs like this today I would just quit.  If you cost me weeks’ worth of work or even an hour farming for gold just because I died for whatever reason I will just quit the game and cancel my subscript.  Why?  Simple if my 7 month old daughter wakes up screaming and I am playing a game like UO where I lose the last hour worth of gold farming because I need to go running to see if she is ok that game can take a flying shit for itself. 

No the death penalties we have had since WoW will do just fine for MMOs now a days.  Going back to an archaic time where you needed to be beaten with a cane is just foolish.  Why do you think few people want to play Salem online or Mortal Online?  Because life is greater than any video/computer game.

Believe it or not, I know it will be hard for you to grasp this concept but... when you were 18 or 23 living in your mom's basement, ppl still had kids back then and real lives... and they played daoc - with those penalties.. How the hell did they manage? Although you didnt have a life back then, people you played with had theirs and still played the game... Oh... wow!

People didnt start having kids now... they've been having them for a long time, its just your turn now - nothing really extraordinary - the world of gaming shouldnt change just because now YOU have kids. Deal with it like the others dealt with it back then. Or... arent you just up to the "elder's" task?

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

1/30/13 4:54:36 PM#16

the worst death penalty I ever got was at early runscape. If you got killed there you lost all your items but 3 most valuable, so if you die far from city you gonna res, say goodbye to all your goods (can be full inventory + gear + gold).
worse again, at PK area you could loose all if you were first to attack other player.

why do you think Jagex changed this system (ok it seems to be the same but they made tombs now and close res points so you have time to run and loot items back). Educated guess: because it made people leave.

WoW mentioned above. Why do you think Blizzard changed res system? Bravo for guess, sure it because it made players leave game. I remember my 3 hours of run from dungeon at vanilla area (group wipe + disband) any desperate try to find resurrector NPC. Finally GM saved me from pain (I made ticket and was about to chancel my sub). It could be funny if was not too frustrating.

I left only silly f2p only because too hard XP penalty (which sure could be re mediate by using cash shop booster). I was too bored to grind all over again + it was game bug caused me to die but nobody care.

I find repair already hard as penalty so not sure if any modern player would appreciate anything worse then that.

I can understand people who missing good old time of sadistic MMO. =D only trust me: it worked for very little time, after which complains started, subs was cancelled, system was changed.
If you do it now, as people already told, nobody or very few guys will pay for such game.

Nothing personal, just my IMO.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  alterfenix

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 335

1/30/13 5:06:55 PM#17
Originally posted by danwest58

Why do you think few people want to play Salem online or Mortal Online?  Because life is greater than any video/computer game.

As for Salem i haven't tried. As for Mortal for me there were a few reasons:

- devs that didn't know a thing about making games

- bugs

- again bugs

- and finally bugs

It never was about death penalty. Also note that i.e. EvE has it's subscribers, far from bleeding, far from dying and still it is one of the most popular MMO games out there right now (despite it's 10 years old).

Agreed that full loot would be to much in TESO but that has little to do with age and careers, rather with that majority will come there from games where players over years got used to no penalties at all.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

1/31/13 9:22:53 AM#18
Originally posted by Caliburn101

Far better than a 'death penalty' is a 'life bonus'.

Have a 'self-confidence' meter which gives bonuses in PvE, and have this erroded away each time you go down until it dissapears. Then have it creep back during play if things go well.

Make it an acheivement to play and not die... make it a moderate one in open world PvE and a larger benefit in dungeons etc.

Balance it right and it will be a celebrated part of the game, not a pain in the ass... 

I like your thinking, Why punish only, but instead give bonus for surviving.

The fear of losing your Experience is the same for the Fear of losing your bonus.

In some advertised Asian MMO games, they have Survival Bonus, Birthday Bonus, Astrological Sign Bonus, Day of the Goddess Bonus.

I hope someday someone will take your advice, because that would make an great mechanic in an MMO.

And it also fixes those without time to play the MMO due to jobs and other stuff.

And make it so that the bonus is only visible to you only, so  no one will abuse it as an party requirement. 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  bliss14

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 539

Ahh devil ether.

1/31/13 9:30:28 AM#19
Would be nice if it had a permadeath feature.  Give a karma rating starting at 5, each time you die you lose one karma.  You can do a deed to regain karma but if you reach zero you are dead permanently and your loot on your body is available to whoever sees it first and your bank goes up for auction like on Storage Wars.
  Nikopol

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

1/31/13 11:30:12 AM#20

Reminds me, The Chronicles of Spellborn had sort of a "not dying buff" instead of a death penalty. You had a buff that kept increasing the longer you didn't die, and capped out at "buff level 3" or something. And you seriously wanted to keep it capped.

It was more stressful than most games' death penalties. :)

Ah, TCOS, its beautiful world and its creative ways. I miss the game.