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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » WHYYYY LEVELS WHYYYY

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128 posts found
  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2388

1/24/13 3:28:17 PM#81
Because WoW and GW2 have levels, and this game is just a clone. 
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/24/13 3:28:59 PM#82
Originally posted by pb1285n
The freedom in the elder scrolls series really came from the scaled content, but would that actually work in an MMO?
First, yes it would work...And the freedom also came from the ability to play the class you want, with the race you want to join the faction you want...or not joing any faction, in an open world where you can go where you want, when you want.

The game won't contain traditional quest hubs, you will pick up quests as you adventure - sounds a lot like an ES game Yet TES did have traditional quest hubs along with being able to find quests out in the wild...so, no, it doesnt make it like TES.
The game will contain a main story arc you can follow - sounds like an ES game No. it sounds like every RPG.
The game contains a standard leveling system as well as ways to level your weapons and armor - like is ES games Yes and the game will have names of places and people in TES, doesnt mean its TES. Without scaling content, its pointless and not like TES. it instead becomes a 1-50 zoned area content on a rail game where once you hit a higher level, the lower level content becomes OBSOLETE which is NOTHING like TES where 100% of the game can be played 100% of the time...which is why Oblivion is still as popular now as it was 7 YEARS ago...and YES, it is, just go to the Nexus website and look at how many times some of the NEW mods have been downloaded in the last month.
A more active combat system with the ability to actively block with your shield - see above Block? You are going with the ability to block with a shield to tie it to TES combat? Seriously? Thousands of posts on their offical Skyrim forums about how they butchered TES magic casting by limiting it to 2 freaking buttons and you are going to go with "you can block with a shield" and so its TES combat...talk about REACHING.

Yes there are changes being made to make the game work in a multiplayer setting but so far a lot of it seems to be staying true to past Elder Scrolls games. Complete garbage. You may as well run down the list of monster and city names to make it sound like the game is just like TES games...

 Its SIMPLE.

Races are now placed in different factions. You will be FORCED to play a faction according to what race you want to play, you will be limited to that factions zones, PvP will be limited to contested zones. 1-50 is to get you to the "good" part of the game, the END game. 

You have NO choices. The world will be made so once you blow through content, you wont be going back. These things have already been said by the Developers. This is not TES, this is DaoC 2...it even has DaoC cutesy Elves...TES elves are fugly ALIEN looking.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15176

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

1/24/13 3:36:27 PM#83
Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by cwliias
... When i heard the words... "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"... I cried a little... Am i over reacting and if so why and how in the hell is that not going to ruin this game... seriously... player lvls in a ES game... Sounds like a joke to me.

Originally posted by cwliias


Originally posted by jimdandy26
What? Previous ES games have levels too.

They have levels in the facet of you use a sword and it levels up yes... Not go grind XP and level up your character before you can REALLLY play the game

 Not sure what games you two have been playing but yes ES games have normal conventional levels as well. Not in the sense of just leveling up skills/items.  There is a base level that levels up like in any game.  You should go replay Skyrim and take a closer look.

Not to mention the entire world has leveled with you ever since obilvion, if you're level 5 so is everything else, only exception being guards and (elite?) NPC's which are I believe about 3 levels higher.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  nukempro

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 80

1/24/13 3:37:08 PM#84
Cause it's a wow clone thats why.
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

1/24/13 3:45:52 PM#85
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by jimdandy26
What? Previous ES games have levels too.

 With SCALEABLE content, not with railed zones.

No amount of talking is going to change the fact that this is nothing more than DaoC 2 with TES skins because few give a rats behind about another DaoC game, so they are hoping they can get more people to play it just because it has the TES name.

Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas and then taking a beloved IP in hopes its popularity will mask its blandness. This is so lacking in TES even the damn ELVES WERE CHANGED, where are the dang ALIEN looking ugly arse elves?

I dunno, from the actual gameplay vids elves look pretty ugly to me. As for scalable content, its never worked correctly. Just like beloved dye systems there are always huge issues. Coh, Gw2, Skyrim, all of them have very deminishing returns to carying degrees with thier scalable content. Skyrim once you hit level 30 (I think, its been awhile) monsters really stopped scaling to you, to the point you could easily slaughter dragons. In CoH the majority of the "scaling" was merely adding more mobs, which is pretty silly in a game where as a tank spec if you couldn't pull atleast 20 equal con mobs and kill them your load out was garbage. Even characters, much less groups, gained power from synergistic powersets that npc's did not, so merely adding another mob did not equal out the direct power level. Gw2 did it best, but also did so at the cost of progression. Sweet, I just gained a new level, too bad everything else in the game did too :( . And that is outside the noticable "goofs" where some levels did not scale down very well at all. No game that I have played, or have been told to try, has gotten content scaling to be effective. Funnily enough this is also an issue that most sandbox games suffer from, as even though many of them (like other Zenimax titles) have levels, they are essentially meaningless. For example when you have 100 hp and mobs do 100 damage, gaining a level and 10 hp is a big deal! It now takes 2 hits to kill you, effectively increasing your survivability by 100%. However when you gain level 3 and you get another 10 hp (120hp total) nothing has changed. It still takes 2 hits to kill you, and you will not have another meaningful level for 8 more levels.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2625

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/24/13 3:51:32 PM#86
The difference is in Skyrim, once you finish leveling for all intents and purposes you've finsihed the game.  Not so in an MMO.  Just because there are levels (Morrowind, Oblivian and Skyrim had levels) doesn't mean its the end, it means the character has reached its peak, so to speak.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  pb1285n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 506

1/24/13 4:05:15 PM#87
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by pb1285n
The freedom in the elder scrolls series really came from the scaled content, but would that actually work in an MMO?
First, yes it would work...And the freedom also came from the ability to play the class you want, with the race you want to join the faction you want...or not joing any faction, in an open world where you can go where you want, when you want.

The game won't contain traditional quest hubs, you will pick up quests as you adventure - sounds a lot like an ES game Yet TES did have traditional quest hubs along with being able to find quests out in the wild...so, no, it doesnt make it like TES.
The game will contain a main story arc you can follow - sounds like an ES game No. it sounds like every RPG.
The game contains a standard leveling system as well as ways to level your weapons and armor - like is ES games Yes and the game will have names of places and people in TES, doesnt mean its TES. Without scaling content, its pointless and not like TES. it instead becomes a 1-50 zoned area content on a rail game where once you hit a higher level, the lower level content becomes OBSOLETE which is NOTHING like TES where 100% of the game can be played 100% of the time...which is why Oblivion is still as popular now as it was 7 YEARS ago...and YES, it is, just go to the Nexus website and look at how many times some of the NEW mods have been downloaded in the last month.
A more active combat system with the ability to actively block with your shield - see above Block? You are going with the ability to block with a shield to tie it to TES combat? Seriously? Thousands of posts on their offical Skyrim forums about how they butchered TES magic casting by limiting it to 2 freaking buttons and you are going to go with "you can block with a shield" and so its TES combat...talk about REACHING.

Yes there are changes being made to make the game work in a multiplayer setting but so far a lot of it seems to be staying true to past Elder Scrolls games. Complete garbage. You may as well run down the list of monster and city names to make it sound like the game is just like TES games...

 Its SIMPLE.

Races are now placed in different factions. You will be FORCED to play a faction according to what race you want to play, you will be limited to that factions zones, PvP will be limited to contested zones. 1-50 is to get you to the "good" part of the game, the END game. 

You have NO choices. The world will be made so once you blow through content, you wont be going back. These things have already been said by the Developers. This is not TES, this is DaoC 2...it even has DaoC cutesy Elves...TES elves are fugly ALIEN looking.

 

Can you explain to me how they could make enemies scale so that a level 50 maxed in weapon and armor skills would be on the same playing field in every area of the game without destroying the progression of the game? Its easy when its one player or if you are scaling down but to allow a level 1 player be at the same level as a max level player be at the same level as someone in the mid levels would require some sort of sorcery or take out stats and skill levels and simply make the battle system completely skill based which sounds nothing like an Elder Scrolls game to me. As for the forced factions. Its easy to tell a story when its a single player game. If one race is at war with another having one person switch sides is believable. So when an orc turns against his race, it doesn't come off as much of a stretch. In a multiplayer game when you have race wars and you allow players choose which side they are on you'll have so many turncoats it becomes a huge mess. ES has always put storytelling first whether its the main plot, or the story you create yourself. To say they should throw that out so you can play whatever faction you want makes you sound unreasonable. Destory the ES magic system? When did we bring up Skyrim again? Combat in ES has always been awful from the beginning. The rest of your post is you whining and twisting the developers words up to fit your already preconceived notion about the game. You have decided to hate the game and nothing anyone says will change it. That's fine, nobody said you had to like it.
  drebian

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/08
Posts: 28

1/26/13 2:49:56 AM#88

For the guys that keep using gameplay videos as an example (most recent was in regard to elven appearance), there are NO gameplay videos outside of EARLY ALPHA testing... You cannot logically judge a game based on videos that were released a long time ago in the early development phases. Wait until the game is released, wait a month or so and read the user reviews. Then if you decide that you want to try the game, give it a fair chance. That's the only logical way to judge a game.

Until then, please stop speculating.

EDIT: Spelling corrections

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/26/13 4:33:30 AM#89
whole thread is stupid anyway because Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim HAVE LEVELS.
  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2625

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/26/13 4:37:53 AM#90
Originally posted by ShakyMo
whole thread is stupid anyway because Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim HAVE LEVELS.

Exactly. 

 

But you say in Skyrim your skill was your level, i.e. you use a skill and when it levels, your level is artificially boosted too.  Well ESO does the same thing, your arnmor and weapon skill levels different from your character level so in a sort of similar fashion it is the same exact thing.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

1/26/13 7:51:53 AM#91
Originally posted by jtcgs

 Its SIMPLE.

Races are now placed in different factions. You will be FORCED to play a faction according to what race you want to play, you will be limited to that factions zones, PvP will be limited to contested zones. 1-50 is to get you to the "good" part of the game, the END game. 

You have NO choices. The world will be made so once you blow through content, you wont be going back. These things have already been said by the Developers. This is not TES, this is DaoC 2...it even has DaoC cutesy Elves...TES elves are fugly ALIEN looking.

You do have choices and they actually matter, there is the example from the alpha playthrough where you chose to either reinforce the army or save villagers and those you save will show up later in the game and help you out etc.

 

Also faction areas being locked will add to replayability as you will have 3 completely different pve games to experience with 100% different content, so replayability should be less of an issue here than in most themepark mmos.

 

And as one of the major focus of the game is the large scale pvp, which can be accessed ar level 10 I dont see that as saving the "good" stuff to level 50

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3194

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

1/26/13 7:56:23 AM#92


Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by jtcgs  Its SIMPLE. Races are now placed in different factions. You will be FORCED to play a faction according to what race you want to play, you will be limited to that factions zones, PvP will be limited to contested zones. 1-50 is to get you to the "good" part of the game, the END game.  You have NO choices. The world will be made so once you blow through content, you wont be going back. These things have already been said by the Developers. This is not TES, this is DaoC 2...it even has DaoC cutesy Elves...TES elves are fugly ALIEN looking.

 

Also faction areas being locked will add to replayability as you will have 3 completely different pve games to experience with 100% different content, so replayability should be less of an issue here than in most themepark mmos.


This is getting repeated over and over again does not make it true.

open up all 3 areas, make 3 alts, And then you have an experience 3x the scope of what you say above!


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

1/26/13 8:06:14 AM#93
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by jtcgs  Its SIMPLE. Races are now placed in different factions. You will be FORCED to play a faction according to what race you want to play, you will be limited to that factions zones, PvP will be limited to contested zones. 1-50 is to get you to the "good" part of the game, the END game.  You have NO choices. The world will be made so once you blow through content, you wont be going back. These things have already been said by the Developers. This is not TES, this is DaoC 2...it even has DaoC cutesy Elves...TES elves are fugly ALIEN looking.

 

 

Also faction areas being locked will add to replayability as you will have 3 completely different pve games to experience with 100% different content, so replayability should be less of an issue here than in most themepark mmos.


 

This is getting repeated over and over again does not make it true.

open up all 3 areas, make 3 alts, And then you have an experience 3x the scope of what you say above!

But then the content would need to be homogenized to fit every character, rather than having 3 stories defined by faction you would be left with a one size fits all aproach, which would be less replayable than content tailored for each faction

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2904

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/26/13 8:39:41 AM#94


Originally posted by Shaike

Originally posted by cwliias
... When i heard the words... "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"... I cried a little... Am i over reacting and if so why and how in the hell is that not going to ruin this game... seriously... player lvls in a ES game... Sounds like a joke to me.

I will try to explain how i see it

If this new game had "levels" like in Skyrim for example (where you "level" something, like Alchemy/1-H Weapon/Smithing/Etc and this gives you XP to advance to the next level, only so you could get more stamina/mana/HP and/or a Skill Point) then equipment and weapons could be equiped by anyone, at any point of the game.

Now in a Solo game (Like Skyrim) result will be that you start and (with a mod for an armor and weapons for example) at lvl1 you can have the "best" gear in the game. Imagin this in an MMO with an Auction-House of sorts.... Now you see how this does not make sense.

You can claim that certain achievments needs to be fullfilled for specific gear to be equiped (lets say no levels, but you have to have enough Skill/Skill Points/Gear already equiped/whatever) - but they chose the WoW path which means you will have XP given to you once you kill something and once you finish quests...

Well - i guess we don't have too long to w8 as Beta is right around the corner.....



However, using Skyrim for my example, when I use a daedric sword at first level, it does a set amount of damage. As I level up my one-handed skill, the same sword starts doing more damage, because I am getting better at the skill. The sword itself factors in very little. It is the skill with which I use the blade that affects the outcome. A beginning player with a daedric sword will pale in comparison to say a 15th level player with skill in 1-handed and an iron sword.

Yes, a daedric sword is better than an iron or a steel sword and does a little more damage when starting out, but the sword itself does not really make a huge difference until my skill with it improves.

And then you have the smithing skill to improve the sword to even better stats :)

Did that make sense?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2904

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/26/13 8:45:03 AM#95


Originally posted by Betaguy
Not sure what games you two have been playing but yes ES games have normal conventional levels as well. Not in the sense of just leveling up skills/items. There is a base level that levels up like in any game. You should go replay Skyrim and take a closer look.

I have never gained a level from simply doing quests or just killing opponents in any TES game I have played. I have gained levels solely from using the skills available to me. I do not recall gaining a level when I talked to an NPC for quests.

What TES games have you been playing?

or... am I missing something here?

[EDIT]
If I recall correctly, my leveling consisted of something like...
My 1-handed skill improves a level. (That cool blue bar appears on my screen.)
Then I get that nice little drum roll and another cool blue bar appears on my screen saying I just gained an overall character level. Time to gain magicka, health, or stamina and spend a skill point :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2388

1/26/13 8:59:46 AM#96

Anyone claiming this garbage is DAoC 2 never played DAoC.

 

If this was DAoC 2 we'd be in for the best MMO in 10 years.

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

1/26/13 9:05:39 AM#97
Originally posted by Nitth

This is getting repeated over and over again does not make it true.

open up all 3 areas, make 3 alts, And then you have an experience 3x the scope of what you say above!

I personally don't want to be forced to creat 3 different characters to experience all of the game (this is coming from an altaholic) I just want to create a character and play the game. If I get to a point where it say's "you cannot do x or go to x for any reason other then I cannot do it 'yet' then I don't like it. I have no problem having something be difficult and unavailable till I gain more power/knowledge/friends but having invisible "sorry, you are not the right faction to enter this location" is just sucky design. It is a cop out. Put guards in, make border checkpoints and make it hard..but not impossible.

If I want to make a trader type character making 3 alts will not change the fact that any of these 3 alts cannot enter another factions lands to sell items and make trades. It means I can never have friends other then the 3 races locked into my faction. If I have a Breton I will never be able to have a friend who wants to play an argonian unless I resort to rolling up another character.

It is just poor design, lazy design, formulaic design...

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

1/26/13 9:06:24 AM#98
I like levels.
  korent1991

Elite Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1401

1/26/13 9:10:43 AM#99

I have no issue with levels in TESO.... As long as they're implemented and designed properly to suite the gameplay style. I think mmorpg needs some sence of "advancement rewards" either your character level which makes it more powerful as you go on or your weapon skills get more advanced, complex and stronger.

I think of it as a good idea for now, we'll see what they'll do exactly with them... If they go that way at all...

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

1/26/13 9:36:46 AM#100
Originally posted by nttajira

im tired of people who want level less mmorpg , free 2 pay game , buy to pay game , game where item dont matter

in my mmorpg i want :

1-  1 months subs , with no cash shop or other joke who never work and make game ghost town after 1 year or the dev stop update , why ?? who work for free baka ?????!!!  .

2- item who matter , if i got them and not you , you will die , in fact just thinking about casual hitting me while doing no dmg and me killing them in one shoot , would bring a smile to my face , i have killed 1000000 monster and you 5 , you think you would get a chance in a fight in real life vs someone like that ?? if you want skill game go play shooter , or starcraft 2 , they both need plenty of your ''skill'' .

3- i want level , alot of them , if the game require forever to hit the level cap , they are 100 % more chance im going to play until im here , because the game got a goal , you get better each new level , that how mmorpg work and should work . monster give me exp , i need to kill monster for level up and gain new skill . i also want big instance where i go for kill more monster !!

they are a good exemple of your crap system game who dont work curently out : guild war 2 , where i hit max level and did some instance , then something hard hit me , what the point ????

im playing mmorpg for get the same fealing i did when i started the genre , not because im bored of the genre , many people are just like me , they want a REAL MMORPG just like ultima online , everquest1-2 , wow at releases , or some other old classic game .

for them and me , the system was damn fine , and game more fun that many new releases .

and they want it new gen .

i dont want to play a new kind of mmorpg , i want a REAL mmorpg just like the old classic ( who btw was 100x better that all your hybrid crap of game where you hit max level in 2 week )

mmorpg dont need to change or evolve , they just need to go back in time , pick all the feature who have make the old game great 

and add all the new gen features .

signed : a angry old school mmorpg player who tired of your crap game and want some real mmorpg

 

Good post, completely agree.  Most "new" features are just dumb down or over used versions of an old game model simplified for the new A.D.D MMO crowd.

The I want easy fast leveling, mount at level 1 oh and F2P because I wont stick around long enough to earn anything good anyway, just going to ring a little fun out of the game and jump to something else next month crowd.

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