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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » How the Developers are out of touch.....

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124 posts found
  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/08/13 1:32:43 AM#101

From a business point of view it would make more sense to try and satisfy the original elder scrolls fanbase.  Even though they overlap with the MMO crowd, MMO games are NOT doing well at all lately.  It would be less of a risk to make an online version of Skyrim than to try and make an MMO.

MMO players find the littlest thing wrong with a title and shun it off, they grow tried eating the same crap over and over.  The market is flooded and unless this game is SUPER-UBER GREAT it's doomed to fail (or at least float along the surface in a make shift F2P version barely making enough money to pay the skeleton crew).

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

1/18/13 5:40:42 AM#102

I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

Yet to see such the thing though...

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

1/18/13 5:42:08 AM#103
Originally posted by sapphen

From a business point of view it would make more sense to try and satisfy the original elder scrolls fanbase.  Even though they overlap with the MMO crowd, MMO games are NOT doing well at all lately.  It would be less of a risk to make an online version of Skyrim than to try and make an MMO.

Agreed - and the 2/3 closed world model is PRECISELY what ES fans hate - they like freedom.

Unless a rapid U-turn is done on this it is going to have a very, very negative impact on the game.

There are pretty straighforward ways to modify the game to give players access to the whole world with one toon.

One or the other of them should be put in NOW - and an announcement to that effect made.

Have a 'flag' system where you 'declare' for your side in the struggle and only then get locked down so you can level in other areas.

Then have a 'spying, disguise and covert mission' enemy zone access system - for the price of a disguise kit or a 'smuggling' system which allows you to take a trade caravan to locations within enemy territory (such as dungeons etc.) so these can be accessed and enjoyed by all.

It is after all a contest for the throne, not an invasion of sovereign territory of any particular race - so there can be 'rules of engagement' agreed by the different factions to preserve the intergrity of their home territories.

Well within the bounds of reasonable possibility in my opinion - indeed - it would be NECESSARY to keep the fight restricted to one area. Otherwise raids and attritional attacks on enemy home turf would be one of the preferred and essential tactics - to weaken the military capability of the enemy army in Cyrodil.

The way it is right now - it is ridiculous - programming such a big and varied eye-candy world and then forncing non-alt junkies to restrict themseves to 33% of it.

Very, very ill considered...

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3583

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/18/13 1:32:28 PM#104
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

Yet to see such the thing though...

Its been tried, and tried, and tried... Each new system was supposed to "fix" the problems caused by the Goonie types. But the reality is that they are VERY creative when it comes to finding loop holes, exploits and work arounds to any system thats been created.  These people get their jollies from ruining other gamers play experience.  It always ends up in an arms race between the Dev's and the Goonies.

Look at the evolution of Concord in EVE online, and the high sec ROE, as just one example of that on going process,

  User Deleted
1/18/13 1:49:03 PM#105
Originally posted by ZigZags

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Fr6VF_1LA at 0:27 Matt Firor thinks they are bringing two different types of players together into one game. As a result they are mixing TES features with "popular" MMO features that two different players will be familiar with and like. This is so not true at all. Of the 27 friends on my Steam list that play TES series, all of them play MMO games as well. These are the same player base. Not two different. By adding features like, instances, short term instanced battlegrounds, factions, zone locks etc. they think they will combine the two player bases together. They don't understand that the two are one and the same and are sick and tired of instanced zones, short term battlegrounds, zone locks and lack of freedom.

 

 

 

I have to agree with this completely, they are the same player base.

 

If you were reading the World of Warcraft forums back when Skyrim was released, the amount of "arrow to the knee" jokes over there was out of control, and even the CM's got into it a bit. Lots of "Fus Roh Dah" going on too. The initial excitement surrounding Skyrim's release was evident from a fairly large chunk of themepark mmo gamers who have an online presence. People who like the typical MMO type experience also enjoy what the Elder Scrolls games offer, even if it's a very different type of rpg experience. 

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/18/13 1:52:33 PM#106
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

Yet to see such the thing though...

Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  ibn_Cartwell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 56

1/18/13 2:02:48 PM#107

I think the point of making a world "open world' pvp ready, applies to making great PVE worlds, no one likes being ran along the instanced zone chain!

 

also I saw someone comment that these "mega servers" will with different "shards" withen will encourage players to find other random players, friends not included, but what it actually does it make it so you might see Billy bob one time once you start, but when you both log in the next day there is almost zero chance of meeting Billy bob in the world again.

  ibn_Cartwell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 56

1/18/13 2:09:27 PM#108
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

Yet to see such the thing though...

Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

 

As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

 

AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3583

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/18/13 3:17:02 PM#109
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

Yet to see such the thing though...

Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

 

As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

 

AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

"Good"? Compared to what? ^^ I played AC for two years near launch. It was a fun game for its time, but I've no interest what so ever in going back to corpse runs, lost items and all of the rest that goes with it.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6697

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

1/18/13 3:24:22 PM#110

This game is fail for a simple reason. Elder Scrolls game has always been about freedom and this game simply is not. It boxes you into one of three factions and there is nothing you can do to switch factions.

Basically this game will be another linear ThemePark which funnels you from zone to zone and PvP in a separate zone. Completely against the open ended philosophy which is used in most Elder Scrolls game. Epic fail.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6672

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

1/18/13 3:30:02 PM#111
Just by making it a theme park they are so out of touch. You don't make an Elder Scrolls mmo for the casual mmo player you make it a mmo for Elder Scrolls fans.  Once again, all about profit and less about quality.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/18/13 3:31:09 PM#112
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

Yet to see such the thing though...

Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

 

As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

 

AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

"Good"? Compared to what? ^^ I played AC for two years near launch. It was a fun game for its time, but I've no interest what so ever in going back to corpse runs, lost items and all of the rest that goes with it.

 Read the quotes...good compared to the FFA-OW-PVP being spoken about...the game had a death penalty that was an ACTUAL penalty, not this barely slap on the wrist there is today. It gives more meaning to the fight than, its ok if I die because I can just come right back and die again x10000 and it wont cost me much of anything but time spent.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  silent-jones

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/05
Posts: 28

1/19/13 5:07:27 AM#113
I understand the fear of PVE players getting KOS all the time in a open world free pvp game. But this would be easy to fix, just by installing hard penalties for murder, such as getting flagged and marked as a penaltyfree kill with the option to drop loot und loose a greater amount of experience, maybe also the threat of deleveling. Lineage 2 is doing it that way and its awesome. Its the most exciting mmo ever made and it has no zoning at all. Just free and open and addictive, exactly what a mmo should be.
  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/19/13 7:43:40 AM#114
Originally posted by silent-jones
I understand the fear of PVE players getting KOS all the time in a open world free pvp game. But this would be easy to fix, just by installing hard penalties for murder, such as getting flagged and marked as a penaltyfree kill with the option to drop loot und loose a greater amount of experience, maybe also the threat of deleveling. Lineage 2 is doing it that way and its awesome. Its the most exciting mmo ever made and it has no zoning at all. Just free and open and addictive, exactly what a mmo should be.

I would like to see the guards throw murderous players in jail for 6-12 hours (real time).  You can still log in but you're character is stuck inside a small cell or prison yard with other players/npcs as inmates.  Sentencing depends on how frequent of a violator and could be up to a week in jail.

I also think they shouldn't make it easy to kill someone.  Have an unconscious state that you can defeat someone and walk away without a huge penalty.
  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3583

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/19/13 9:50:26 AM#115
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

Yet to see such the thing though...

Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

 

As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

 

AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

"Good"? Compared to what? ^^ I played AC for two years near launch. It was a fun game for its time, but I've no interest what so ever in going back to corpse runs, lost items and all of the rest that goes with it.

 Read the quotes...good compared to the FFA-OW-PVP being spoken about...the game had a death penalty that was an ACTUAL penalty, not this barely slap on the wrist there is today. It gives more meaning to the fight than, its ok if I die because I can just come right back and die again x10000 and it wont cost me much of anything but time spent.

As I mentioned, I played the game for around two years at launch... I'm rather familiar with the death penalty system... ^^

I also stated that I'd have NO interest what so ever in going back to that type of system. Why? Because I do not need anything like that type of system, and it ISN'T fun *to me*. 

I'm in these games for the entertainment, not for some sense of "challenge".  There is a fine line between challenging, and frustrating, and unfortunately all too many Dev's don't seem to understand the difference.  I can *tolerate* a game that is challenging. I have rather little patience for ones that are frustrating.

As for cost, even in a game like WoW, if you try zerging something, in even semi decent gear, its going to cost you quite a bit of gold.  Unless you actually like running mindless dailies over and over and over, you don't do that.

  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1885

1/19/13 9:55:11 AM#116

Iam totaly done with Fantasy themeparks - they offer nothing what we dint played in the last decade.
I wanted to give it a try but its just another carebear themepark with a twitch here and there.

PvP will be alot like GW2 - Arcade pvp where each day is the same - take this lose that take this lose that rinse and repeat for god knows how long.

Heared that Archeage might not be much diffrent and i realy hoped a epic sandbox came out soonish.
Seems that Developers lost any sense of creating new stuff.

CBA with it anymore after all the copy pasting mmo's of the last decade.

  Shodanas

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/05/10
Posts: 805

1/19/13 9:59:19 AM#117
Look, yet another "this game will fail because I DON'T LIKE the path it's going" post. The amount of self-righteousness in these boards is just mind-boggling.
  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

1/19/13 10:31:06 AM#118
Originally posted by ZigZags

My biggest concern about an IP that I grew up with and love is that the developers are so out of touch with reality that they are heading down a path similar to what BioWare did with SWTOR. Based on what we know today, I believe TESO will havea  fate similar to SWTOR. Huge budget, exciting for the first 30-90 days, then drop off and fail status shortly after.

Spoken like a saint. You are the man Zigzags, and I agree the developers are completly out of touch now a days in general for "ALL" MMO's

Actions speak louder then words, and their actions say They are only interested in making a quick buck and then grabbing that money too fund their next project. I understand games were always made for profit and money, but back in the day I remember Developers made MMO's in the spirit of gaming itself, they loved to game and roleplay. I believe this generation of Developers are out of touch with everything, including the gamers as well. I am a musician, vocalist and artist in real life, and I've always believed that an artists work will best show in his hard work, and from what I've seen for the past 5 years in most of these MMO's is that there isn't very much creativity at all, just a bunch of formula's from other peoples idea's plastered into something new to make a quick buck. This isn't something that has just happened it's been going on for almost over 8 years now.

 

A lot of the adults who used to play MMO's don't anymore, because the MMO's have become more like action games over roleplaying games. Not to mention how easy things are and how everything is handed out for doing nothing.

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1963

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

1/19/13 10:37:49 AM#119
Originally posted by ZigZags

(...)

you know you can do those:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1_Fr6VF_1LA#t=484s ?

 

(which would be your "at 8:04" link)

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

1/19/13 10:46:42 AM#120
Originally posted by Shodanas
Look, yet another "this game will fail because I DON'T LIKE the path it's going" post. The amount of self-righteousness in these boards is just mind-boggling.

 Although I don't agree with everything he stated as well, You sound kind of like a Bigot, because These boards are used to discuss each others opinions on things and have an intellectual disscussion between others who have differn't points of veiw. It's just someones opinion. If he was being self-rightous he would be swearing at people and calling them names simply because he didn't agree with them (which he isn't doing)

He is simply discusssing something with other people to see and to try to understand other peoples point of veiw. Maybe you should actually read what he has to say instead of labling people here 'Self Righteous" just for having a voice. He even listed his points with positive idea's. Which is good.

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