I want to see some real gameplay here. I want to see how fluid the combat is , I want to see how immersive the game is, I want to see how the loot is going to work, I want to see how pvp is going to work. For a game that is coming out next year we sure have a lack of quality footage for the game. It worries me they are trying to cram everything in and just shove it out the door like everyone else does.

I think the term "failure" should be reserved for MMO games that are shut down like APB, Hellgate London and Tabula Rasa.

I think the term "success" should be reserved for MMO games that rival World of Warcraft in subsriber numbers and longevity.

Everything else is just "mediocre."

So I think TESO will be on the low end of mediocre but it will go freemium as soon as it can if it doesn't start that way, and that will boost it a little bit.

I am hoping they NGE/CU the thing frankly.  Can't believe I'd ever actually WANT that having been through how it was for SWG.

Originally posted by Mephster

I want to see some real gameplay here. I want to see how fluid the combat is , I want to see how immersive the game is, I want to see how the loot is going to work, I want to see how pvp is going to work. For a game that is coming out next year we sure have a lack of quality footage for the game. It worries me they are trying to cram everything in and just shove it out the door like everyone else does.

I personally think it won't work but I am still trying to find footage etc.  You are right though, the complete lack of info is daunting.  In saying that though, SWTOR and WAR, had amazing clips and footage and they both were lamo.

Originally posted by chryses

Originally posted by Mephster

I want to see some real gameplay here. I want to see how fluid the combat is , I want to see how immersive the game is, I want to see how the loot is going to work, I want to see how pvp is going to work. For a game that is coming out next year we sure have a lack of quality footage for the game. It worries me they are trying to cram everything in and just shove it out the door like everyone else does.

I personally think it won't work but I am still trying to find footage etc.  You are right though, the complete lack of info is daunting.  In saying that though, SWTOR and WAR, had amazing clips and footage and they both were lamo.

 

Not only is there a lack of ANY in-game footage (the environmental flythrough from E3 doesnt count), but since Zenimax announced TESO and the fan backlash they got about it, they have been strangely silent.

The last couple of interviews they had they basically were "unappologetic" about making the game, backpeddling and putting any type of spin they could on the game.

Now for almost 3 weeks. Nothing.

I guess Matt Firor (of DAOC Fame) couldnt take the heat.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by chryses

Originally posted by Mephster

I want to see some real gameplay here. I want to see how fluid the combat is , I want to see how immersive the game is, I want to see how the loot is going to work, I want to see how pvp is going to work. For a game that is coming out next year we sure have a lack of quality footage for the game. It worries me they are trying to cram everything in and just shove it out the door like everyone else does.

I personally think it won't work but I am still trying to find footage etc.  You are right though, the complete lack of info is daunting.  In saying that though, SWTOR and WAR, had amazing clips and footage and they both were lamo.

 

Not only is there a lack of ANY in-game footage (the environmental flythrough from E3 doesnt count), but since Zenimax announced TESO and the fan backlash they got about it, they have been strangely silent.

The last couple of interviews they had they basically were "unappologetic" about making the game, backpeddling and putting any type of spin they could on the game.

Now for almost 3 weeks. Nothing.

I guess Matt Firor (of DAOC Fame) couldnt take the heat.

 

Strangely silent?  If anything they haven't been strangely silent as they have gone in and talked about the overall design quite thuroughly.  There have been numerous interviews and talks.  They can't go in depth of course when they have nothing to show like actual demos.

As for it's success?  Well that will likely depend largely upon it's buisness model.  With SWTOR transitioning to F2P then hopefully that'll convince em to make it F2P if that wasn't decided already.   Also there are a lot of notworthy titles either B2P or F2P that will make a P2P MMO a tough sale nowadays.

Once people get off their high horse of this isn't Skyrim Online then people might be a lot more open to the game.  There are quire a few intriguing concepts.

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by chryses

Originally posted by Mephster

I want to see some real gameplay here. I want to see how fluid the combat is , I want to see how immersive the game is, I want to see how the loot is going to work, I want to see how pvp is going to work. For a game that is coming out next year we sure have a lack of quality footage for the game. It worries me they are trying to cram everything in and just shove it out the door like everyone else does.

I personally think it won't work but I am still trying to find footage etc.  You are right though, the complete lack of info is daunting.  In saying that though, SWTOR and WAR, had amazing clips and footage and they both were lamo.

 

Not only is there a lack of ANY in-game footage (the environmental flythrough from E3 doesnt count), but since Zenimax announced TESO and the fan backlash they got about it, they have been strangely silent.

The last couple of interviews they had they basically were "unappologetic" about making the game, backpeddling and putting any type of spin they could on the game.

Now for almost 3 weeks. Nothing.

I guess Matt Firor (of DAOC Fame) couldnt take the heat.

 

Strangely silent?  If anything they haven't been strangely silent as they have gone in and talked about the overall design quite thuroughly.  There have been numerous interviews and talks.  They can't go in depth of course when they have nothing to show like actual demos.

As for it's success?  Well that will likely depend largely upon it's buisness model.  With SWTOR transitioning to F2P then hopefully that'll convince em to make it F2P if that wasn't decided already.   Also there are a lot of notworthy titles either B2P or F2P that will make a P2P MMO a tough sale nowadays.

Once people get off their high horse of this isn't Skyrim Online then people might be a lot more open to the game.  There are quire a few intriguing concepts.

 

its not uncommon for game companies leave actual game play videos for much closer to the release date. intrestingly Darkfall 2 has game play videos as some of their first.

Never the less, the choice of words and questions being asked at these interviews makes it clear they are on the defensive. "unappologetic" is not a word one would have to use unless they were on the defensive.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by chryses

 I have always been an Elder Scrolls fan dating back to Daggerfall.  Having hammered Skyrim all week, I can't see how the essential ingredients that make the series work, can be transferred into an online format.

1. Elder Scrolls is about exploring vast open landscapes that allows a player to get lost and find hidden dungeons, temples and interesting characters.
Online - I don't believe they can create a massive world with little or no instances.  Exploration doesn't feel right when 25 other players are stomping all over the same temple.

Every time you enter a house or dungeon, you've entered an instance. It would be no different online.

2. Its realistic in the sense that you come across a lone NPC and you stalk them not knowing if they are friend/foe and assisting or just killing them if you wan't.
Online - it will just be another spawn fest with multiple instances as everyone will be lining up to kill the same beast.

Most quest goals end up being inside a dungeon, or indoors somehow... so...

3. Its about complex combat, actual targeting and tactics. e.g. mid combat, swapping skills and spells whilst in pause mode. 
Online - Fallen Earth is the closest I have seen to using this in an online format. Its clunky at best. Due to the bandwidth and mass appeal they need to generate, its going to end up auto targeting or a very rudimentary combat system.

That much is true, but they could easily tone back to a Morrowind-like system based on rolls.

I disagree with you almost whole-heartedly.

The game can take all it's past/present conventions and make them work - they just won't because the suits at Zenimax attribute static MMO gameplay as to what MAKES an MMO an MMO... and they would rather attract players from the current stagnating market, ironically, by making it just like everything else that players are getting tired of - rather than indoctrinating their existing fanbase. A stupid move overall.

he has very valid points.

His first statement indicates that there is a difference in finding that one dungeon/temple/lost civilization/base, etc by one's self and discovering it with hordes of people all over the place, already there. And he'd be correct.

You actually don't address his last sentence (edit: in that paragraph) so I would be interested to hear your take on that. It's one of the things that I've pondered. The only thing I ever came up with was an instanced world like the original guild wars but I'm not sure that's what elder scrolls players are looking for.

However, maybe that would be your solution; the use of instances? Whether it's the world or dungeons?

Actually its really easy to counter his arguments.

1) You said that its different when too many players discover the same dungeon.

    My counter : Easily fixed, have the dungeon have doors and mechanics that others must access before the way is cleared to enter. For example, have Fork Roads that leads to different places, the deeper you go, the more dangerous it is, and to explore a single dungeon, not only will it take you hours, you will have to back track, or have to keep moving forward, as you don't know if someone will lock the door behind you. Not only will this make exploring fun and exciting, it also makes the whole thousands of players in the dungeon but are all at different places, and you might even tack along someone ahead just to avoid getting killed by surprise traps and Mini Bosses that pops out of nowhere.

    Temples and Dungeons doesn't always have to have only one way to move, you can have it branch out like a huge tree trunk, where it leads you never know, you might just find that hidden treasure that randomly pops.

2) You are afraid of an spam fest where people comes and kills the NPC just cause.

   My counter: Easily fixed again, in skyrim, when someone dies their daughter or wives takes over so you never lose the merchant. Or their role in the game. All the game have to do is when the first Black Smith dies, their daughter takes over but with body guards, the more they die, the harder the body guard is. Eventually it will become an one hit kill Body Guard that you can never defeat. No more spam fest, because it will just be thousands of player bodies lying on the floor. For being Aholes.

3) You stated that someone already made it happen, yet because it was first generation and its clunky, you feel its unnecessary?

   My counter: Again, fallen earth was first generation getting that combat down, we know its possible, the developers aren't new to the MMO scene, it doesn't mean that they have to copy exactly like what Fallen Earth does. Fallen Earth just shown us that its possible, is it clunky, sure, but it doesn't mean that in the years of development, they couldn't figure out how to make it smooth and work within the game they are developing.

There are many views and opinions, yet it all comes down to whether or not the developer are willing to do the work. Currently it just seems that Zenimax doesn't want to challenge the formula. They are just continuing it down the same path many already taken.

Originally posted by chryses

 I have always been an Elder Scrolls fan dating back to Daggerfall.  Having hammered Skyrim all week, I can't see how the essential ingredients that make the series work, can be transferred into an online format.

1. Elder Scrolls is about exploring vast open landscapes that allows a player to get lost and find hidden dungeons, temples and interesting characters.
Online - I don't believe they can create a massive world with little or no instances.  Exploration doesn't feel right when 25 other players are stomping all over the same temple.

Well I share this sceptisism although I am not simply saying that it certainly will be like that. Currently we are overrun by MMORPG-like titles (WoW as it is now, Rift, Aion, etc). Even if the gameworld is big thanks to either poor crowd and population control or tools like dungeon finder (in fact also poor population control sign) RPG part of genre is dead. But then I also remember some old stuff, including WoW before WotLK and if they do it that way or similar (or just get inspired even to not look too far by DAoC) then it may work as long as they keep it that way or perhaps improve it but do not push it towards WotLK.

2. Its realistic in the sense that you come across a lone NPC and you stalk them not knowing if they are friend/foe and assisting or just killing them if you wan't.
Online - it will just be another spawn fest with multiple instances as everyone will be lining up to kill the same beast.

True. The only real solution would be probably to shift it towards pure 3 faction stuff (so you have clear idea whom you can attack and whom not), make it FFAPvP (wont affect NPCs but at least will affect players), some really advanced phasing where every character can have their individual phase (another words system unlike in WoW where you do stuff, then join others on next level but with no loading screen). My bet is that it will be first solution but then regardless which one that would be it unlikely will be as it is in other TES games.

3. Its about complex combat, actual targeting and tactics. e.g. mid combat, swapping skills and spells whilst in pause mode. 
Online - Fallen Earth is the closest I have seen to using this in an online format. Its clunky at best. Due to the bandwidth and mass appeal they need to generate, its going to end up auto targeting or a very rudimentary combat system.

Not sure how it will work in TESO however it really could be great if they just took a look at other TES games and Mortal Online. If they could make what MO has more attractive to average player then I suppose that could work really great.

I am not trying to flame on this game, but as a massive fan of the series, I can't see how an online version can capture the essence of the single player game.  Just making another 3 faction warfare cookie cutter in the ES world stinks of a quick money grab from box sales.  I know its synical but after SWtOR and a few other releases, its hard not to feel this way for this game IMO, shouldn't be turned into an MMO for so many reasons.

Some games are just not made for the MMO genre and I really feel this is one of them.

Well I agree that making a game just because it is famous IP is bad (see WAR for example). But then no idea if we really should jump to conclusions before someone actually gets a chance to play TESO. Also a little bit of optimism is that I mentioned WAR for a reason, you did mention SWTOR, could be probably also mentioned DA2. In general titles that have one thing in common - publisher. Now ofc we all could hear some funny things about this company and what do they consider their studios to be (tools to make cash, if they don't work then just trash them). Not saying that Zenimax is better for sure but so far they didn't really show as many signs of such approach and that may work for TESO.

Also I have to say that this is pretty much the first thread with criticism of TESO where OP criticises title but there is no QQ and some rage towards title that is not even in early beta yet:-)

The Elder Scrolls Online will not work for the same reason as this...

Arguing over the game without at least some beta experience to provide a context for your arguments seems entirely pointless to me.

I say it'll work just fine, it'll have a few issues, the majority of the vocal on this site will hate it & bash it like they do with everything else & it will go on to have a respectable player base regardless of the naysayers, doommongers & trolls with attitudes.

Looking forward to getting my hands on it & taking it for a spin.

I get the feeling that they will be making a generic MMO with a ES skin and lore, rather than a ES game altered to be online.

For that reason I am expecting to be disappointed.

Hopefully they prove me wrong.