Originally posted by AdamTM

 

In the age of games like Planetside 2, land-/zonesize should not be an issue (i still can't believe how large that game is).

Of course provided you have the engine for it, but im not going to go into speculation on what Hero Engine can or can not do because i dont know an exact answer to this question.

But it has been shown to work at least with -some- games, so its more a question of effort or budget.

It's definitely not an engine issue, as it's the same engine being used for the Repopulation http://www.therepopulation.com/. Basically a spiritual successor to SWG. Granted it's an indie, and we never know how those will turn out, but it at the least shows the engine is capable of that type of game.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by AdamTM

 

In the age of games like Planetside 2, land-/zonesize should not be an issue (i still can't believe how large that game is).

Of course provided you have the engine for it, but im not going to go into speculation on what Hero Engine can or can not do because i dont know an exact answer to this question.

But it has been shown to work at least with -some- games, so its more a question of effort or budget.

It's definitely not an engine issue, as it's the same engine being used for the Repopulation http://www.therepopulation.com/. Basically a spiritual successor to SWG. Granted it's an indie, and we never know how those will turn out, but it at the least shows the engine is capable of that type of game.

Thats why i said i don't know.

With your example you eliminated engine and budget from my question.

So the only logical conclusion is that TESO lacks the effort to make it work.

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Originally posted by SEANMCAD

3. non-instance housing is not hard to do, it works well in Darkfall (and this is not an opinion there isnt that much to it to evaulate on). So this entire conversation of it not being possible, realistic, or cost effective is pure bullsh(t

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Just a note, but it really isnt often that I see people touting Darkfall as a good example of anything, but hey, to each his own.

I think there are far more examples of games that intially felt good with non-instanced housing end up with some unforseen issues. Perhaps the difference is that other people played those games, and when you have population you run into issues.

Most folks who played SWG had moments where they felt that Tatooine was less desert and more city, or that Naboo had very little open area, or that Corellia..and so on and so on depending on your server. Houses were a part of the mechanic though, but in many cases they just got so big, and had so many people that it really took away from the area. SWG was designed with houses in mind, but somehow I think the amount of houses exceeded even their expecations.

Anyone remember the day UO started housing in Trammel?

Even a game like Vanguard had housing that I liked, the world was big enough, with enough pre-planned housing slots so that non-instanced housing works. (And yes, Vanguard is a game, to me, like Darkfall that you dont see a lot of people pointing at saying "that was done well" and I played it, so dont take my first Darkfall comment the wrong way! VG was a dog with different fleas, and I liked it, so I get the different taste thing.) and it never had a ton of people, but...

My point isnt that non-instanced is bad, in fact it's great. I loved those experiences. I would like to see non-instanced housing again, but I think a developer has to have a plan for it, and if random towns popping up arent part of the plan, then shoe horning it in doesnt work. I honestly cant remember, but how many houses were purchaseable in some of the past TES titles? Now imagine a server with 5,000 people wanting houses....

With all that in mind, especially since finding ways to make it work are a challenge, I'm not opposed to some type of instanced housing. I'd prefer housing zones rather than the apartments in EQ2 (which is the style I like the least) but yes, some type of housing would be absolutely great. Doing it right isnt easy, and you cant just add it on top of an existing game, it's got to be something you design the world with in mind. So while I disagree with the dev's saying it's impossible, I tend to believe that if they did not plan for it in the begining, then it probably is impossible to do right now, in their game.

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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In the age of games like Planetside 2, land-/zonesize should not be an issue (i still can't believe how large that game is).
Of course provided you have the engine for it, but im not going to go into speculation on what Hero Engine can or can not do because i dont know an exact answer to this question.
But it has been shown to work at least with -some- games, so its more a question of effort or budget.

---

It's definitely not an engine issue, as it's the same engine being used for the Repopulation http://www.therepopulation.com/. Basically a spiritual successor to SWG. Granted it's an indie, and we never know how those will turn out, but it at the least shows the engine is capable of that type of game.

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Thats why i said i don't know.
With your example you eliminated engine and budget from my question.
So the only logical conclusion is that TESO lacks the effort to make it work.

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Or that it wasnt part of their original design plan so trying to shoehorn it in at a latter date would not work, so they made a conscious choice to not do it at this time.

Originally posted by AdamTM

O

Thats why i said i don't know.

With your example you eliminated engine and budget from my question.

So the only logical conclusion is that TESO lacks the effort to make it work.

No biggie, I made the same statement myself a few days ago (possible engine issue), due to forgetting the Repop was using the same engine.

Simple you do Open World Housing like in Asherons Call. 

So what if only 30%-50% of the population gets to own a traditional house?  MMO's having been ramming elitest content down our throats for the last 7+ years like raiding that less then 10% of the population gets to experience so in my estimation having enough Player Housing Plots the same way that Asherons Call does it actually opens up more content then soemthing like Raiding ever will, plus its more long term and lasts a helluva lot longer then generic WoW style Tiered Raid #279. 

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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In the age of games like Planetside 2, land-/zonesize should not be an issue (i still can't believe how large that game is).
Of course provided you have the engine for it, but im not going to go into speculation on what Hero Engine can or can not do because i dont know an exact answer to this question.
But it has been shown to work at least with -some- games, so its more a question of effort or budget.

---

It's definitely not an engine issue, as it's the same engine being used for the Repopulation http://www.therepopulation.com/. Basically a spiritual successor to SWG. Granted it's an indie, and we never know how those will turn out, but it at the least shows the engine is capable of that type of game.

---

Thats why i said i don't know.
With your example you eliminated engine and budget from my question.
So the only logical conclusion is that TESO lacks the effort to make it work.

---

 

Or that it wasnt part of their original design plan so trying to shoehorn it in at a latter date would not work, so they made a conscious choice to not do it at this time.

Yes, which is still a lack of effort.

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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In the age of games like Planetside 2, land-/zonesize should not be an issue (i still can't believe how large that game is).
Of course provided you have the engine for it, but im not going to go into speculation on what Hero Engine can or can not do because i dont know an exact answer to this question.
But it has been shown to work at least with -some- games, so its more a question of effort or budget.

---

It's definitely not an engine issue, as it's the same engine being used for the Repopulation http://www.therepopulation.com/. Basically a spiritual successor to SWG. Granted it's an indie, and we never know how those will turn out, but it at the least shows the engine is capable of that type of game.

---

Thats why i said i don't know.
With your example you eliminated engine and budget from my question.
So the only logical conclusion is that TESO lacks the effort to make it work.

---

 

Or that it wasnt part of their original design plan so trying to shoehorn it in at a latter date would not work, so they made a conscious choice to not do it at this time.

This seems the most likely and sadly indicative of the direction they want ESO to take.  How can developers not be aware of the popularity of this type of content in an online game?  

The omission of player housing in ESO (amongst other foibles) speaks volumes.

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

3. non-instance housing is not hard to do, it works well in Darkfall (and this is not an opinion there isnt that much to it to evaulate on). So this entire conversation of it not being possible, realistic, or cost effective is pure bullsh(t
 

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Just a note, but it really isnt often that I see people touting Darkfall as a good example of anything, but hey, to each his own.

I think there are far more examples of games that intially felt good with non-instanced housing end up with some unforseen issues. Perhaps the difference is that other people played those games, and when you have population you run into issues.

Most folks who played SWG had moments where they felt that Tatooine was less desert and more city, or that Naboo had very little open area, or that Corellia..and so on and so on depending on your server. Houses were a part of the mechanic though, but in many cases they just got so big, and had so many people that it really took away from the area. SWG was designed with houses in mind, but somehow I think the amount of houses exceeded even their expecations.

Anyone remember the day UO started housing in Trammel?

Even a game like Vanguard had housing that I liked, the world was big enough, with enough pre-planned housing slots so that non-instanced housing works. (And yes, Vanguard is a game, to me, like Darkfall that you dont see a lot of people pointing at saying "that was done well" and I played it, so dont take my first Darkfall comment the wrong way! VG was a dog with different fleas, and I liked it, so I get the different taste thing.) and it never had a ton of people, but...

My point isnt that non-instanced is bad, in fact it's great. I loved those experiences. I would like to see non-instanced housing again, but I think a developer has to have a plan for it, and if random towns popping up arent part of the plan, then shoe horning it in doesnt work. I honestly cant remember, but how many houses were purchaseable in some of the past TES titles? Now imagine a server with 5,000 people wanting houses....

With all that in mind, especially since finding ways to make it work are a challenge, I'm not opposed to some type of instanced housing. I'd prefer housing zones rather than the apartments in EQ2 (which is the style I like the least) but yes, some type of housing would be absolutely great. Doing it right isnt easy, and you cant just add it on top of an existing game, it's got to be something you design the world with in mind. So while I disagree with the dev's saying it's impossible, I tend to believe that if they did not plan for it in the begining, then it probably is impossible to do right now, in their game.

let me break down what an 'non-instanced' house really is.

You know when you go out adventuring in the map and you maybe see 3 walls and a treasure chest? put a fourth wall on that, a door a roof and now its a 'non-instanced' house.

extreemly simple and it basically exactly what Darkfall has done.

Darkfall by the way is a very good game,  they just have a sociopathic player base inside a gaming community that is woefully immature.