No amount of updates can save the HERO engine.

Its major flaws are to big and will not be on par with any good mmo engine even with updates.

Bad Bad Bad decision for a game :(

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Originally posted by Mothanos

Its major flaws are to big and will not be on par with any good mmo engine even with updates.

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Can you name a few of those flaws and explain?

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

I said yesterday that no matter how terrible the game looked i would play simply for being an Elder Scrolls game. That was before I found out that the game was running on the Hero Engine, the same terrible engine that TOR is running on. I dont know who in their right mind decided that the hero engine was gods gift to MMO's but its just aweful. Its one of those typical all fluff and no substance engines and its defiently one of the main reasons TOR failed and will be another reason why ESO fails. 

 

Seriously this is one of the worst things that could have ever happened to ESO, and it just shows that even bethesda can fall victim to some sly marketing by a poor engine development company that couldnt even realease their OWN mmo with the damn engine. Seriously what are all these people thinking? Couldnt they just make their own in house engine? It all goes down to greed I guess, but the with HERO engine being so expensive to purchase and use is it really worth it in the end for these companys?

 

Thank Talos (SADFACE) for Guild Wars 2...

Hero engine? No thanks. Swtor is a nightmare.

And i really dont think TES online will be good. Just a gut feeling.

Originally posted by Mothanos

No amount of updates can save the HERO engine.

Its major flaws are to big and will not be on par with any good mmo engine even with updates.

Bad Bad Bad decision for a game :(

You know something we don't? mind explaining the flaws?

No classic Elder Scrolls FPS? No thanks. Definitely saving my $ on this one. Will likely see anyone who tries it back in Tyria two weeks later. Good luck with that.

I think the Hero Engine is good but not for TOR or TES ips. It just doesn't fit well with the games.

Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
No classic Elder Scrolls FPS? No thanks. Definitely saving my $ on this one. Will likely see anyone who tries it back in Tyria two weeks later. Good luck with that.

Quite a bold statement there bud. Also GW2 is not an FPS game so i don't understand why would anyone go back to GW2 if lack of FPS combat is the reason they won't play TESO.

Your post makes no sense or you were just trying to make GW2 look good?

found this after i googled hero engine and found their website

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kZA9JCbVnzY#!

 

a list of all the games they worked on if i am correct

Originally posted by Mephster

I think the Hero Engine is good but not for TOR or TES ips. It just doesn't fit well with the games.

exactly Hero Engines isnt bad but it didnt work for TOR and prob wont work for TES online too

Oh no not another one using the hero engine, they must be giving away sex with every purchase to shift code to this many devs.

While Hero engine is far from the best engine out there saying that any game who use it must suck is rather dumb.

The only MMO I can think of that failed because the engine is Vanguard, and that was because the engine were so poorly coded that the game were so bugged out it was close to impossible to play it at launch. it could still have done fine if they waited with the release until the engine was fixed up.

?The hero engine is not to blame for TOR, TORs issues is because Bioware made a single player MMO more or less. The game just isn't massive enough.

A really good dev can make a great game with a poor engine even if it limits the option they have.

I don't know enough of ESO to call it a good or bad game yet, but just saying it is trash because of the engine isn't fair at all.

Originally posted by Loke666

While Hero engine is far from the best engine out there saying that any game who use it must suck is rather dumb.

The only MMO I can think of that failed because the engine is Vanguard, and that was because the engine were so poorly coded that the game were so bugged out it was close to impossible to play it at launch. it could still have done fine if they waited with the release until the engine was fixed up.

?The hero engine is not to blame for TOR, TORs issues is because Bioware made a single player MMO more or less. The game just isn't massive enough.

A really good dev can make a great game with a poor engine even if it limits the option they have.

I don't know enough of ESO to call it a good or bad game yet, but just saying it is trash because of the engine isn't fair at all.

Woaaah, there is many more MMO's that have failed because of the engine. Case in point #1 Tabula Rasa.

 

The fact that so many people on low end computers couldnt play the game without one of two things happening, either

 

A. The game would lag severly with graphics set only to medium.

or

B. If you put the graphics on low the graphics looked like an N64 game (Seriously it was that bad).

 

The fact is that you and alot of other people are missing out on my point (And this is no offense to you Loke cause I actually like alot of your posts) which is that "The Devs Lost me at Hero Engine" is for the fact that the hero engine should have no place in assocation with an Elder Scrolls game.

 

Its just a bad pick for an engine to compliment the games lore, core fan base, and gameplay mechanics.

 

Im sure an MMO can be made on the engine that is halfway decent, but the fact is thats never been shown by any of the multiutde of games thats been released on it, and again its just bad for ESO. Poor Descions from a Bad Director whose too old and wants to make money, sorry guys buy im saying it like it is and if people have a problem with that they are just blindlessly defending a game that theyve only known about for two days with no evidence to back up the supporting argument. Me and many other people in this post have sited failures of the hero engine yet people think we are the whiners and they can site any success of the damn engine? Think about it guys!

Originally posted by dontadow

This is my problem, if you don't create your own engine for a game you are essentially copying and modifiying what other people are doing. 

...as one can easily see by comparing DAoC, Dragonica, Rift and WAR. ;)

Or were you talking about how TERA. DCUO and APB are pretty much clones of each other?

Despite what other people are saying this isn't an anti-engine thread, to Loktofeit, all those games are made on a much more versitile engine than the hero engine. Again, the engine may have the capabilities of making good or decent games but it seems to be very limiting in many respects, as the ui and grahics from their games all look extremely similar despite the differences in games. Again Hero engine for ESO is a main reason the game will be generic and bland.

When you use an engine to create an mmo you need to take a special dumb into Threading.

Many people mean things you usually don't have in a single player game need throttling and control in terms of prioritisation or delaying data paket streams.

Even most small things like UI bufficons can kill your game performance because you have to update and coordinate for every member who can utilize this information.

If i have a raidwide buff which influences 40 people, the client needs to update information on the buffbars of every member (if i have it visible). Add 20 effects to 40 members and you may end up having 5 fps because the UI bufficons clunkered your whole thread (if any seperated for UI) and killed all performance which was needed for FX updates, texture streaming, AI calculation etc.

That's why in most mmos you can turn of buffs or other IU information and suddenly have a fluid game expirience during extreme "40 vs 40 pvp etc" situations.

- LOTRO
- SWTOR
- WAR
- AOC
etc....

WOW got it right today but not without the initaly failure too.

Now these things do not only apply to UI bufficons, but to all UI information as well as ANY OTHER aspect. Your engine needs to be altered individually for your game to avoid shuttering.

Aion and TERA have sliders for Texture and model straming during such situations. (Someone done his homework)

This isn't a small thing.
Designing threading is like designing the netcode from scratch. You need concepts and many proof of work hours plunged into it. It will define how your whole client loads and works with the information given.

Personally when *i* as an armchair developer with personal interessts take on an Game Engine i will need someone with the knowhow to be aware of this and get this done. (haha good one, right EAware?)

Concerning HEROENGINE. Now since they claim to be best fitting for MMOs i would think *someone* may have thought of this and given proper ease of developing in this field, right?

Like presets where i can just adjust values, well documented for my mmo creation needs....right?

DERP. (That's really the only MEME fitting)
HEROENGINE doesn ot offer much when it comes to the real interessting core parts. But hey they got a dialogue editor where i can just type in questchains! YAY* (facepalm)

I'm looking forward seeing framerate chocking, and "lag" mass PVP due to bufficons, stealth rogue detecting because the client always loads the rogues players full set without proper thread streaming and priorisation. (You always know when a rogue is nearby because your client hicks for half a second) - and my favorite. VRAM cluttering and RAM leaking due to many texture stream calls at once.

In short an engine not optimized for any MMO environment.

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

Originally posted by Loke666

While Hero engine is far from the best engine out there saying that any game who use it must suck is rather dumb.

The only MMO I can think of that failed because the engine is Vanguard, and that was because the engine were so poorly coded that the game were so bugged out it was close to impossible to play it at launch. it could still have done fine if they waited with the release until the engine was fixed up.

?The hero engine is not to blame for TOR, TORs issues is because Bioware made a single player MMO more or less. The game just isn't massive enough.

A really good dev can make a great game with a poor engine even if it limits the option they have.

I don't know enough of ESO to call it a good or bad game yet, but just saying it is trash because of the engine isn't fair at all.

Woaaah, there is many more MMO's that have failed because of the engine. Case in point #1 Tabula Rasa.

 

The fact that so many people on low end computers couldnt play the game without one of two things happening, either

 

A. The game would lag severly with graphics set only to medium.

or

B. If you put the graphics on low the graphics looked like an N64 game (Seriously it was that bad).

 

The fact is that you and alot of other people are missing out on my point (And this is no offense to you Loke cause I actually like alot of your posts) which is that "The Devs Lost me at Hero Engine" is for the fact that the hero engine should have no place in assocation with an Elder Scrolls game.

 

Its just a bad pick for an engine to compliment the games lore, core fan base, and gameplay mechanics.

 

Im sure an MMO can be made on the engine that is halfway decent, but the fact is thats never been shown by any of the multiutde of games thats been released on it, and again its just bad for ESO. Poor Descions from a Bad Director whose too old and wants to make money, sorry guys buy im saying it like it is and if people have a problem with that they are just blindlessly defending a game that theyve only known about for two days with no evidence to back up the supporting argument. Me and many other people in this post have sited failures of the hero engine yet people think we are the whiners and they can site any success of the damn engine? Think about it guys!

Source of your information? as far as i know, the main reason (the general consensus on forums) why people quit was because of lack of support by the company and lack of any kind of end game. Updates were too slow and there was hardly any content added to the game.

But please don't be shy to share link with us to show that Tabula Rasa failed due to its engine.

Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Despite what other people are saying this isn't an anti-engine thread, to Loktofeit, all those games are made on a much more versitile engine than the hero engine. Again, the engine may have the capabilities of making good or decent games but it seems to be very limiting in many respects, as the ui and grahics from their games all look extremely similar despite the differences in games. Again Hero engine for ESO is a main reason the game will be generic and bland.

The look of the UI and the graphics have nothing to do with the graphics engine... at all. The engine renders the interface, models and animations that the developers create.

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Originally posted by jiveturkey12

all those games are made on a much more versitile engine than the hero engine. Again, the engine may have the capabilities of making good or decent games but it seems to be very limiting in many respects.

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In the whole thread I keep asking to name and explain those limitations of hero engine. Still no answer...

So once again: Would you mind to name and explain those so called limitations and their dependency and relation to hero engine?

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by jiveturkey12

all those games are made on a much more versitile engine than the hero engine. Again, the engine may have the capabilities of making good or decent games but it seems to be very limiting in many respects.

---

 

In the whole thread I keep asking to name and explain those limitations of hero engine. Still no answer...

So once again: Would you mind to name and explain those so called limitations and their dependency and relation to hero engine?

 

 

He won't reply. Every time you ask him to back up his claims he disappears. I am beginning to feel that i am being trolled.

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

I said yesterday that no matter how terrible the game looked i would play simply for being an Elder Scrolls game. That was before I found out that the game was running on the Hero Engine, the same terrible engine that TOR is running on. I dont know who in their right mind decided that the hero engine was gods gift to MMO's but its just aweful. Its one of those typical all fluff and no substance engines and its defiently one of the main reasons TOR failed and will be another reason why ESO fails. 

 

Seriously this is one of the worst things that could have ever happened to ESO, and it just shows that even bethesda can fall victim to some sly marketing by a poor engine development company that couldnt even realease their OWN mmo with the damn engine. Seriously what are all these people thinking? Couldnt they just make their own in house engine? It all goes down to greed I guess, but the with HERO engine being so expensive to purchase and use is it really worth it in the end for these companys?

 

Thank Talos (SADFACE) for Guild Wars 2...

Just because BioWare fucked up with the Hero engine does not mean Zenimax Online Studios will. Imo BioWare are not that great when it comes to engines,take the first witcher game,it was made using the BioWare engine but they made it run/look way better than any Bioware game up to that point.