Guild Wars Forum » Lion's Arch (General) » Guild wars 2.... 2010- 2011

Sometime additional development time leads to a game that tries to be all things to all people and ends up being nothing at all. I certainly want ArenaNet to take their time and get it right the first time. I am also hoping they don't sacrefice those things that made the game unique.  Yes I want knew and inovative game mechanics but not at the expense of losing the look and feel of the original. 

I don't want a inphasis on just PvE or just PvP, but on both.

Don't turn the game into a grinder. I don't really need 100 levels to enjoy the game. In fact I'm rapidly becoming burned out on the process.

Yes things like crafting, housing, mounts and all the other MMO fluff are great, but I prefer  gameplay that allows me to monk for guild group doing THK, and 30 minutes later get ready for GvG. :) 

They got so much right that made it possible to enjoy all aspects of the game. Bigger and better will be nice, but remember where you came from, and be true to that as well.

Originally posted by Lydon

ANet have said that they are building Guild Wars 2 from the ground up and that it is a significantly larger project than the original. It's logical that, as a result, it will take longer to develop. 

Also, your summary of developing races is an extremely vague one. It takes a lot of time to create starting areas for the various areas, fill those starting areas with quests and missions, ensure that racial bonuses, should they be included, are balanced etc. This will make up a significant portion of the game. Add to that the fact that armour etc. will have to be modeled for all races and not just humans and you'll see why I specifically mentioned this.

GW1 was developed from the ground up, and it was done in 3 years. Game sequels are always billed as larger and more improved, there's no point to making a sequel otherwise. Unfortunately, the list of new GW features hasn't really changed or been updated since the pre-release, and the recent link about them increasing the game's scope indicates that they made the intended timeframe with the original design. They're just adding extra polish or what have you.

The developing races comment was not at all vague. Anet was releasing campaigns at 6 months intervals. Each campaign features a brand new starting area and 2 new classes, and about 200 skills for each unique class. And that's not taking into account the rest of the campaign after noob island. Even if they indeed fell behind on that front, developing a separate noob island for each race shouldn't take more than a few extra months total.

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Originally posted by Gennadios
The developing races comment was not at all vague. Anet was releasing campaigns at 6 months intervals. Each campaign features a brand new starting area and 2 new classes, and about 200 skills for each unique class. And that's not taking into account the rest of the campaign after noob island. Even if they indeed fell behind on that front, developing a separate noob island for each race shouldn't take more than a few extra months total.
 

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Please god tell me they don't redo that mistake again. GW: Prophecies alone is a bitch to keep balanced, then someone comes around and is like "Hey you got 6 months to somehow keep 200 new skills and 2 new classes balanced". I hope they learned from that mistake considering that all the new skill and classes introduced in NF and Factions were part of what fucked up the balance.

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Originally posted by Godliest

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Originally posted by Gennadios
The developing races comment was not at all vague. Anet was releasing campaigns at 6 months intervals. Each campaign features a brand new starting area and 2 new classes, and about 200 skills for each unique class. And that's not taking into account the rest of the campaign after noob island. Even if they indeed fell behind on that front, developing a separate noob island for each race shouldn't take more than a few extra months total.
 

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Please god tell me they don't redo that mistake again. GW: Prophecies alone is a bitch to keep balanced, then someone comes around and is like "Hey you got 6 months to somehow keep 200 new skills and 2 new classes balanced". I hope they learned from that mistake considering that all the new skill and classes introduced in NF and Factions were part of what fucked up the balance.

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However there really isn't any word on what they are going to do instead, however to be fair, I'm not surprised as I think its the last thing they are looking at before releasing GW2 itself

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

 

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Originally posted by Godliest

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Originally posted by Gennadios
The developing races comment was not at all vague. Anet was releasing campaigns at 6 months intervals. Each campaign features a brand new starting area and 2 new classes, and about 200 skills for each unique class. And that's not taking into account the rest of the campaign after noob island. Even if they indeed fell behind on that front, developing a separate noob island for each race shouldn't take more than a few extra months total.
 

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Please god tell me they don't redo that mistake again. GW: Prophecies alone is a bitch to keep balanced, then someone comes around and is like "Hey you got 6 months to somehow keep 200 new skills and 2 new classes balanced". I hope they learned from that mistake considering that all the new skill and classes introduced in NF and Factions were part of what fucked up the balance.

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No Godliest, in my interview with Linsey Murdock last month she stated they aren't going to go with the 6 month per new campaign/expansion plan and that it is well known that didn't work...

 

However there really isn't any word on what they are going to do instead, however to be fair, I'm not surprised as I think its the last thing they are looking at before releasing GW2 itself

I wonder if GW2 will go P2P, or some other in-game money making technique. As for skill balance I bet the PvE only Skill system is here to stay leaving the core PvP alone

Originally posted by Tekaelon 

I wonder if GW2 will go P2P, or some other in-game money making technique. As for skill balance I bet the PvE only Skill system is here to stay leaving the core PvP alone

They've stated over and again that it will be F2P.

Guild Wars 2 ? Whats that ? Oh wait, isn't that the game they started developement in late 2006 and announced in March 2007 and 2.5 years later we know squat about ?  

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Guild Wars 2 ? Whats that ? Oh wait, isn't that the game they started developement in late 2006 and announced in March 2007 and 2.5 years later we know squat about ?  

They have a proven track record of producing well polished and unique content so I'm not concerned about how much time has passed. BTW games such as AoC were first announced back in 2004, give or take, and we heard lots and lots about that game. Look how well that turned out. :P

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Originally posted by SaintViktor
Guild Wars 2 ? Whats that ? Oh wait, isn't that the game they started developement in late 2006 and announced in March 2007 and 2.5 years later we know squat about ?  

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if so yes ;)

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

 

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Originally posted by SaintViktor
Guild Wars 2 ? Whats that ? Oh wait, isn't that the game they started developement in late 2006 and announced in March 2007 and 2.5 years later we know squat about ?  

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You mean the one thats actually being Privately tested (and played) by ANet staff and Alpha servers are up and running but only open by invites to staff and special invites to press?

 

if so yes ;)

OK the memory is coming back somewhat but it is still a bit fuzzy. :D

A game should be announced at a decent point during development. Too late is bad for marketing, too early leaves the fans waiting endlessly for the game. However, with GW2 I don't blame NCsoft. They need to overcome another obstacle, not only do they need to develop a damn good game due to the success of GW they need to make a proper MMO which is still F2P!!!

Am not surprised GW2 will be coming out in 2011 but the company has restructured itself so it can concentrate more on their successful products. Imho I think the huge GW fanbase will help them a lot for GW 2.

I agree that the success of the first game will draw many players back for the sequal. Everyone I used to play the game with is planning on coming back be it 2010, 2011, or even 2012.

Originally posted by Tekaelon

I agree that the success of the first game will draw many players back for the sequal. Everyone I used to play the game with is planning on coming back be it 2010, 2011, or even 2012.

The longer they take to release the more they're in danger of losing their fan base. I strongly suspect that Star Wars: The Old Republic will be borrowing heavily from GW, and provided they don't make any mistakes in terms of subing and cash shop schemes, I'm willing to bet GW will lose alot of it's player base to TOR.

Then again it's being published by EA. They managed to drive Hellgate: London into the ground, they may do the same with TOR.

Originally posted by Man1ac

A game should be announced at a decent point during development. Too late is bad for marketing, too early leaves the fans waiting endlessly for the game. However, with GW2 I don't blame NCsoft. They need to overcome another obstacle, not only do they need to develop a damn good game due to the success of GW they need to make a proper MMO which is still F2P!!!

Am not surprised GW2 will be coming out in 2011 but the company has restructured itself so it can concentrate more on their successful products. Imho I think the huge GW fanbase will help them a lot for GW 2.

I think Guild Wars 2 was announced too early, but they had no choice as the current playbase would have been shouting about the lack of new campaigns/expansions for Guild Wars.

Originally posted by Gennadios

 

Up until maybe the 4th q of 2k8 the "upcoming changes and features" section of the official wiki billed late 2k8/early 2k9 as the start of beta. It wasn't really that much of a stretch to believe it either, GW is known to have had an comparatively early open beta period.

Jeff Strain himself gave a speech during the 2008 Game Developers Conference in which he painted the early beta of GW as the primary factor of the game's very stable release and expressed an intention to do the same for GW2.

Also, Anet's community manager made an april 2k8 statement that she played the game, implying that GW2 is already at some level of completion.

Between the complete lack of info coming out from Anet, and the complete silence on the virtues of open beta, I'm inclined to take business as the primary factor over polish or design.

It is ALL very simple.

The announcement of the GW2 push back was made in Oct2008, while everything and everyone announced the game was already in a playable form.

What happend?

Simple the answer lays with Mark Jacobs (as always these days): I qoute him "... 'the moment we saw TBC,  we knew we had to redo Warhammer and better the work we had delivered up till then... "

Of course the epic fail of both AoC and War together with the new WotLK mounted combat, open world and destructable buildings and phasing had an impact on the team of GW2....

Would they still publish a game with decent but 3 year old instanced PvP mechanics and go the way of War and AoC or try to "better" the things and redo the work with mounted combat, destructable worlds and perhaps even consider phasing.

It is all VERY clear: GW2 WAS postponed because they had to REDO a lot of stuff already shown by Blizzard or they would risk to be another failed game.

Blizzard sets the standards in polish and new techniques for 4 years now... those who ignore it simply fall flat on their noses.

Be happy the team behind GW saw in time they needed to keep up with the latest developments and techniques.

Better late and redo the job than have a fluke.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

It is ALL very simple.

The announcement of the GW2 push back was made in Oct2008, while everything and everyone announced the game was already in a playable form.

5 months before WOTLK in June 2008

was the first announcement of the GW2 going through changed Dev Cycle

the GW2 FAQ was revised and it was announced there would be no player beta in 2008

GW2 FAQ - no beta for 2008

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/187331/GW2-FAQ-no-beta-for-2008.html

we will not start beta testing in 2008 as we had originally planned.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Zorndorf

It is ALL very simple.

The announcement of the GW2 push back was made in Oct2008, while everything and everyone announced the game was already in a playable form.

the first announcement of the GW2 going through changed Dev Cycle was made in JUNE 2008

 

the GW2 FAQ was revised and it was announced there would be no player beta in 2008

this was well before Warhammer and WOTLK

 

GW2 FAQ - no beta for 2008

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/187331/GW2-FAQ-no-beta-for-2008.html

we will not start beta testing in 2008 as we had originally planned.

No the delay to "at least 2010" was announced in Oct 2008 on all websites. NOT in the link you mention ....

Nice try to ignore but ... read please ....

Your link is just a FAQ where they stated all new things about GW2, but said "the date was not known yet" and it would be "launched when ready" kind of thing.

---- BUT ----->

I don't think many people understand what happened last year between May 2008 and October 2008.

BEFORE that time span, people thought AoC and War would take the MMORPG market by storm, each with at least 1M subscriptions if not more.

And not only the people on mmorpg.com, no every website thought the sky was the limit ....

After this period, the feeling was that ... the most anticipated games of the last 3 years didn't ... succeed in achieving any goals (as in 1M long term players).

Together Blizzard introduced WotLK with rather new techniques of "open world" design and (phasing) changes.

---> OF COURSE every good designer takes a look at the market and has a brain storming: ... "LESSONS learned".

It is a compliment to the developpers of GW they saw the "IT" factor and applied the lessons learned.

please provide us with a link to an official source claiming a previously announced launch date -- because there was none

Originally posted by Nadia

please provide us with a link to an official source claiming a previously announced launch date -- because there was none

 

"Beta testing was originally set for late 2008, but has since been postponed to a date closer to the game's release. The dates of beta testing and release are currently unknown. More information may be found on the official website."

See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_wars_2

It is very clear the decision of postponing GW2 Beta play falls in that same crucial period of "May - Oct 2008".

The decision to postpone the Beta was first raised in the beginning of July, but the big push back was  simply to follow.

As you would know designers are very well informed about other games developments.

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There can only be one reason to postpone and that's to redo content/game mechanics.

So the game WAS announced before the crucial May-Oct period to have a Beta in late 2008.

And yes I think FunCom and Mythic are responsible for a lot of " lessons learned" staff meetings these days.

It shows GW2 is in better hands than those games.

heres a post from 2007  - 2 years ago

www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php

in my pcgamer magazine, that first had news of gw2, it was coming out in 2009/2010

thats as close as Ive seen for an expectation - but it was not announced by ANET

Originally posted by Nadia

heres a post from 2007  - 2 years ago

www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php

in my pcgamer magazine, that first had news of gw2, it was coming out in 2009/2010

 

thats as close as Ive seen for an expectation - but it was not announced by ANET

Of course:

"NCSoft recently declared, during the conference where they presented their financial status, that Guild Wars 2 will be launched in 2010 or 2011.
Guild Wars 2 was announced since 2007, while the beta testing phase was set for 2008."
 

That's a push back and that push back decision was made  just in the period I described. May-Oct 2008.

Sorry but there was never an official statement from Arenanet as to when we will see Guild Wars 2. Those years 2010/2011 are mearly a speculative timeline. We never once received an exact  month or a day associated with those years. Not to worry though at the rate they are going we might not see any real GW2 info,concept art or even a teaser trailer until the next oh "50 years" I would say.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Sorry but there was never an official statement from Arenanet as to when we will see Guild Wars 2. Those years 2010/2011 are mearly a speculative timeline. We never once received an exact  month or a day associated with those years. Not to worry though at the rate they are going we might not see any real GW2 info,concept art or even a teaser trailer until the next oh "50 years" I would say.

Alot of people seem to be getting RELEASE and BETA TESTING mixed up. MMOs spent agest in beta testing. Most go a 3 month minimum. GW1 was in various incarnations of a beta test for nearly a year. It's true that there was never a RETAIL RELEASE date set. But for the last time, at some point of GW2's development, the BETA was set for the last quarter of 2008.

Originally posted by Gennadios

at some point of GW2's development, the BETA was set for the last quarter of 2008.

got a link to validate this ?

the only ANET announcement, that I'm aware of,  states they were hoping for beta in 2008  

until they announced in June 2008 that there would be no player beta in 2008    period

mmorpg.com forum link  (dated June 2008)

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/187331/GW2-FAQ-no-beta-for-2008.html

official source link

www.guildwars.com/products/guildwars2/gw2faq/

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Gennadios

at some point of GW2's development, the BETA was set for the last quarter of 2008.

got a link to validate this ?

 

 

the only ANET announcement, that I'm aware of,  states they were hoping for beta in 2008  

until they announced in June 2008 that there would be no player beta in 2008    period

 

mmorpg.com forum link  (dated June 2008)

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/187331/GW2-FAQ-no-beta-for-2008.html

official source link

www.guildwars.com/products/guildwars2/gw2faq/

Do you have a link to invalidate this? You're showing links that are basically saying "oh, our bad, there will be no 2008 beta, as all of you were expecting." Where do you think those expectations came from?

Just to humor you: Link to the June 2008 official guild wars wiki entry

Which refrences the gw2 faq that was up until around june 2008 (surprising, but FAQs get updated.) This is also the last chronological update that still referred to the 2008 beta. The faq that came out around that time noteably removed any mention of a beta date, and the upcoming changes and features section of the wiki followed suit.

If you're up for a little bit of extra sleuthing, use the wayback machine to find the older GW2 faqs from the GW website. I was planning on producing a link to that also, but the ISP at my current location is mistaking it for a proxy server and firewalling it.

EDIT: And now I'm feeling a little bit stupid for missing this in the first place, but here's the obvious tidbit from the horses mouth itself, the official, current GW FAQ:

When will there be a beta?

Although we publically alpha- and beta-tested the original Guild Wars while it was still in early development, with Guild Wars 2 we will commence beta testing closer to the game's release. With that in mind, we will not start beta testing in 2008 as we had originally planned. Guild Wars 2 is a very large and ambitious game, and Guild Wars players rightfully have very high expectations of its quality. We want players to be absolutely blown away by the game the first time they experience it.