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Guild Wars Forum » Lion's Arch (General) » Guide to choosing secondary profession

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41 posts found
  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  6/19/08 5:51:14 AM#21


Originally posted by zonzai
I was trying to respond in a constructive polite manner.  I guess 400 hours of play time trumps my 960 hours on my PvE elementalist and 1500+ total play time (mostly on PvP elementalists).  I will make this quick because I don't like pointless debates over such trivial BS...
Just hear me out on this one thing - never tell anybody to take monk secondary because it will allow them to heal their group well.  That is simply not true.  The only viable application that it has with real players is on a flag-runner in guild PvP.  And even then, in my experience it is far inferior to other flag-running builds.

Xfire keeps crashing, don't base anything on it. Additionally it depends on what you've spent your time doing. Apart from playing I spend lots of time theory crafting. Necromancer with Monk secondary in PvE is a strong combination that can, thanks to soul reaping, heal for large amounts and without energy problems. Necromancer with Ritaulist secondary is another common choice for healing, that be found in both PvP and PvE. Picking monk secondary for a Necromancer with such a superior energy management and telling them that it allows them to heal their group is neither wrong nor stupid since it's true.

Elemenalists can with their large amount of energy and good energy management be able to dish out both damage and heal their group if they pick a monk or ritualist secondary. A monk primary may be better if you aim for being full out healing but then the Ele can act as a hybrid making it good as support.

I don't know how much knowledge you got of the game (playtime does not equal knowledge!) but if you honestly want to tell me what to write or not, when I got experience of such a combination working excellent, you could at least try to argue for your point - not just tell me that I should "trust" you.



  zonzai

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/05
Posts: 361

6/19/08 6:16:50 PM#22

Yes, necro with monk secondary can be alright if you have minions or enough readily available weak mobs (e.g. you are not in hard mode).  N/Rt is far more effective however (or at least has been for the past year or so). 

That said, an elementalist is not a necromancer.  All of my comments are in reference to elementalists alone, as I do not consider myself all that knowledgeable about any other class.  Frankly though, if you believe an ele/monk can heal well, I would be prone to disregard everything else that you have said based on that because it is a common misconception amongst new players.   And as such, that's what I would assume that you are.

  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  6/20/08 9:53:58 AM#23


Originally posted by zonzai
Yes, necro with monk secondary can be alright if you have minions or enough readily available weak mobs (e.g. you are not in hard mode).  N/Rt is far more effective however (or at least has been for the past year or so). 
That said, an elementalist is not a necromancer.  All of my comments are in reference to elementalists alone, as I do not consider myself all that knowledgeable about any other class.  Frankly though, if you believe an ele/monk can heal well, I would be prone to disregard everything else that you have said based on that because it is a common misconception amongst new players.   And as such, that's what I would assume that you are.

It all becomes much easier if we just disregard them as idiots, does it not? I took the example of an Elementalist as an additional one just for the sake of having additional examples. I never said an Ele/Monk can heal well - I said that they work good as hybrids that aid the team with defensive support and offensive support. Please learn to see the difference between hybrid and healer; spamming WoH on your team with an Elementalist primary is not what I meant but rather use a few defensive pre-prots. See this to get a decent understanding of what I mean (and yes I know it's E/Rt, it's just an example).

I'm not a new player. Period. While I sadly lack ranks or play time to prove my knowledge, I got enough knowledge to not charge into HA with a W/Mo using healing hands and neither would I wonder what the point of Hero Battles is. One thing is slightly beyond my understanding, even if I can grasp the major parts of it, and that's GvG. Apart from that I know what works and what doesn't.

Finally: this guide was made with beginners who just start the game kept in mind, not for hard mode. I could make a guide that covered what combinations and skills works good in hard mode, however I would then be forced to after every skill change update it and new additions and ideas come up all the time making it quite worthless. E/Mo with a few healing skills can deal damage and maintain a decent amount of defense for the party, and for that it works good. The same goes for necromancer with ritualist or monk secondary; the mobs drop quick and you gain lots of energy. Upon getting to Hard Mode I trust that the players can figure out what works and what doesn't, and what to run where.

One additional comment: Monk secondary is mainly better if what you aim to do is use pre-prots such as Aegis or equal, while Rit secondary works better when trying to just be a basic healing focusing less on pre-protting.



  zonzai

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/05
Posts: 361

6/21/08 1:17:18 AM#24
Originally posted by Godliest 


I don't know how much knowledge you got of the game (playtime does not equal knowledge!) but if you honestly want to tell me what to write or not, when I got experience of such a combination working excellent, you could at least try to argue for your point - not just tell me that I should "trust" you.

 

Yes, it's almost as easy as disregarding actual game experience with BS lines.

 

Originally posted by Godliest

 

Elementalist

 

  • Monk
    • Due to Elementalists energy management skills and large energy pool they can provide the team with lots of healing without running out of energy.

 

"Providing a team with lots of healing," sure makes it sound like they're doing it well.  Regardless, I concede the argument.  I have wasted too much time here already.  And I should know better than to correct people on forums.  

 

Edited because concede is spelled with an "e" not an 'i'.

  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  6/21/08 9:54:41 AM#25


Originally posted by zonzai
Yes, it's almost as easy as disregarding actual game experience with BS lines.
 
"Providing a team with lots of healing," sure makes it sound like they're doing it well.  Regardless, I concede the argument.  I have wasted too much time here already.  And I should know better than to correct people on forums.

Now this debate(?) is turning into more of a big personal attack rather than anything else. First off: How am I supposed to know that you've actually played as much as you have? Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true; "it's almost as easy as disregarding actual game experience with BS lines" and how I do know that what you isn't "BS lines"?

I more than welcome constrictive criticism and ways change the thread to the better, but if they aren't obviously correct then I think that an explanation should be made to prove their correctness. After going through my original post I fixed a few phrases to make them more correct. If you find anything else you consider to be wrong or should be changed, then go ahead, but state why it should be changed. Apart from that if you go to forums you can expect arguing if both sides don't agree on one thing, as in this case.



  Fatal_Redux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 23

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself." -FDR

8/12/08 11:12:36 AM#26

Good post, but I have to defend my build...

Ranger/Mesmer is a very plausible combination. It can be done. Rangers can take the lesser of the energy-sapping skills (like interrupts and low-energy hexes) from the Mesmer and use them in combination with Savage Shot/Distracting Shot and other interrupts to completely pressure and/or disable a Monk or Ele. Yes, the energy costs are high, but that means that you don't use Panic every time it recharges. Also, ranger gear was somewhat designed for players who play caster secondaries, as most of the armor allows quicker energy recharge and gives more base energy in general. There is no lack of synergy, and the build isn't that end-game. Most of the ranger interrupts can be acquired near the beginning of the game, the only thing that matters after that is the gear (which in itself, is end-game).

The build is rare, but it can work and it is just another example of something that works pretty well that isn't generic. All it needs is a skilled player to manage energy and hexes, and you can also cast Read the Wind on yourself to make interrupts almost instant (since Ranger interrupts are arrow-based). You don't have to modify your entire post, but just think about that...

  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  8/13/08 9:38:15 AM#27


Originally posted by Fatal_Redux
Good post, but I have to defend my build...

Ranger/Mesmer is a very plausible combination. It can be done. Rangers can take the lesser of the energy-sapping skills (like interrupts and low-energy hexes) from the Mesmer and use them in combination with Savage Shot/Distracting Shot and other interrupts to completely pressure and/or disable a Monk or Ele. Yes, the energy costs are high, but that means that you don't use Panic every time it recharges. Also, ranger gear was somewhat designed for players who play caster secondaries, as most of the armor allows quicker energy recharge and gives more base energy in general. There is no lack of synergy, and the build isn't that end-game. Most of the ranger interrupts can be acquired near the beginning of the game, the only thing that matters after that is the gear (which in itself, is end-game).

The build is rare, but it can work and it is just another example of something that works pretty well that isn't generic. All it needs is a skilled player to manage energy and hexes, and you can also cast Read the Wind on yourself to make interrupts almost instant (since Ranger interrupts are arrow-based). You don't have to modify your entire post, but just think about that...


My original post was however aimed at lower end PvE and to be honest Panic and interruptions in lower end PvE isn't that good.



  rotyoung

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/08
Posts: 1

8/21/08 9:02:01 AM#28

Thanks for the post!. It's very helpful for a n00b like me ;-)

  zorky

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/05
Posts: 74

Gamer mixed with sci fi and fantasy with a dash of steampunk, I am the Zork Grand Inquisitor.

9/07/08 3:50:22 AM#29

Awesome guide just started playing elementalist never played them before so this helps alot :)

  xusheng2

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/08
Posts: 110

In mmorpgs anyone not as good as you is a noob and anyone better than you has no life.

12/28/08 9:14:46 AM#30

i accidently picked ele/ ranger im not sure if thats real good cause the guide says its bad. should i restart.

Playing: WoW and Guild wars faction.
waiting on: GW2 and next WoW expansion =)
played: flyff, diablo2, maplestory, dungeon runners, eudemons online, conquer online, runescape, decide online, perfect world, and atlantica.

  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  12/28/08 9:24:08 AM#31


Originally posted by xusheng2
i accidently picked ele/ ranger im not sure if thats real good cause the guide says its bad. should i restart.

No. You'll be able to change your secondary profession later on into the game.



  Rocktober

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/12/08
Posts: 118

12/28/08 12:12:48 PM#32
Originally posted by Godliest

 


Originally posted by xusheng2
i accidently picked ele/ ranger im not sure if thats real good cause the guide says its bad. should i restart.

 

No. You'll be able to change your secondary profession later on into the game.


 

I would say it depends on how far into the game they are.  If they've just recently picked their secondary, then they might want to restart as to my understanding, the point that you actually get to change your secondary profession is after you've ascended; or at the very least been run to Droknar's Forge.. and even then I believe you have to be ascended before you can start the quests to change professions.  I could be wrong, but that's my understanding of it.

(Edited for some semblance of clarity.)

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  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  12/29/08 11:41:06 AM#33


Originally posted by Rocktober
I would say it depends on how far into the game they are.  If they've just recently picked their secondary, then they might want to restart as to my understanding, the point that you actually get to change your secondary profession is after you've ascended; or at the very least been run to Droknar's Forge.. and even then I believe you have to be ascended before you can start the quests to change professions.  I could be wrong, but that's my understanding of it.
(Edited for some semblance of clarity.)

That's true. I was rather short in my comment and could've elaborated it more for clarification. Depending on which campaign you (xusheng2) play: if you started it in Prophecies, then you should definitely reroll since you won't be able to change until after about halfways through the main campaign; if you started it in Factions or Nightfall however the time before you'll be able to change is quite minor, with Nightfall being the shortest allowing you to change very early. Then it also depends on whether you're going to be using your secondary skills more or less.



  xusheng2

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/08
Posts: 110

In mmorpgs anyone not as good as you is a noob and anyone better than you has no life.

12/29/08 5:36:56 PM#34

k thanks for the help i recently changed it. btw i have factions.
edit: Great guide!

Playing: WoW and Guild wars faction.
waiting on: GW2 and next WoW expansion =)
played: flyff, diablo2, maplestory, dungeon runners, eudemons online, conquer online, runescape, decide online, perfect world, and atlantica.

  Xerek

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/08
Posts: 61

5/28/09 7:49:16 PM#35

One thing not to overlook, in PvE, is that a Monk secondary can go with protection magic, thus freeing the primary monk to dedicate themselves to healing.  I've played a Mesmer/Monk, and with my couple of protection spells, and the primary healer's heals, groups I'm in can usually tear through things in short order.  Often, the monk will be stacked to heal, rather then protect, so it helps to have someone else fire off the protect spells, especially if someone starts to get pounded faster then the healer can keep them up.

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3506

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

6/23/09 2:06:15 AM#36

I am kinda happy with playing pure Mesmer in the campaign, to be honest.

After spending a ton of thinking and not knowing what to do, I decided to "just take Monk". But not a single skill I got was of any interest. Sure I could go for Smiting Prayers ... but then again I have Domination (?) very high and with the abilities there I usually have enough to do.

 

  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  6/23/09 1:07:16 PM#37


Originally posted by Adamantine
I am kinda happy with playing pure Mesmer in the campaign, to be honest.
After spending a ton of thinking and not knowing what to do, I decided to "just take Monk". But not a single skill I got was of any interest. Sure I could go for Smiting Prayers ... but then again I have Domination (?) very high and with the abilities there I usually have enough to do.
 

I know. I'm probably going to rewrite this guide to make it better in many ways, especially the one you described: the fact that some professions really... shouldn't use a secondary because of the lack of synergies. Mesmer is a profession that on it's own does what it's intended to do very well and because of the lack of other professions that do similar things going Mesmer only is typically good.



  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3624

6/23/09 2:50:49 PM#38

The guide is certainly a good starting point. I imagine it would be too much work to make a guide when all skills are available.

  Godliest

Defender of Ascalon

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 3483

"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef

 
OP  7/05/09 3:47:06 PM#39


Originally posted by arenasb
The guide is certainly a good starting point. I imagine it would be too much work to make a guide when all skills are available.

Problem would be that skills can always be used in an unusual way or combined with another to create a new combination, making worthless skills good. Even if it's rare now it does happen and a guide telling people that this skill is only good for this it would need to changed when it occurred. It could be done, but I don't think I have the time and patience to maintain it.



  alakram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2252

7/02/10 4:23:41 AM#40

So I recently bought Guild Wars Trilogy. It was on a sale on Steam.

My question is, I decided to go with a warrior for Primary profession, but I'm unsure about the secondary. I can't choose between Hunter or Monk. I like helping my group, but I like having bow skills too. So giving I want the warrior as primary, any advice between these two?

Thanks!!!

Edit: I plan on playing Prophecies with this character.

-=AlaKraM=-
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