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Age of Wushu Forum » General Discussion » Sandbox Yeah, But With Great Patience

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53 posts found
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7251

2/10/13 3:06:17 PM#41
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

 

 

 

This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

Scroll down to my post.

I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

Thank you big bother *fist in palm*

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

2/10/13 3:27:16 PM#42
Originally posted by rodingo
What some people call a sandbox, I call lazy design.  Am I calling all "sandbox" games lazy design?  No.  However, when players are the only ones driving content becuase the dev team couldn't come up with an antagonist worth a darn and a matching backstory or ongoing story, then thats just lazy.  I expect to be flamed for this, but in a sense, Eve is lazy design in many ways.  Sure it has some "deep" aspects to it, but overall its design just screams low budget and lazy to me.  Maybe that's why it only has about 330-350k subs at any given time and not much more.

I think SWTOR might be more suitable for you, story is the 4th pillar there.

  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 731

2/11/13 2:07:26 AM#43
Originally posted by rodingo
What some people call a sandbox, I call lazy design.  Am I calling all "sandbox" games lazy design?  No.  However, when players are the only ones driving content becuase the dev team couldn't come up with an antagonist worth a darn and a matching backstory or ongoing story, then thats just lazy.  I expect to be flamed for this, but in a sense, Eve is lazy design in many ways.  Sure it has some "deep" aspects to it, but overall its design just screams low budget and lazy to me.  Maybe that's why it only has about 330-350k subs at any given time and not much more.

You're confusing good design with storylines.

EVE is a well designed game because it has several complex systems that tie into each other and give the players a plethora of tools for meaningful interaction, and the same goes for AoW.

These games are not trying to create the silly illusion that every single player is an awesome hero progressing through a preset story and fighting the same immortal antagonist that dies 100 times every day. They're laying the groundwork for a virtual world where players' interactions are the important thing.

Emitting story is not necessarily lazy (anyone with half an imagination can come up with a generic MMO storyline), it's a conscious design choice. This is not the same as just making an empty world and then hoping that the players will create a fun game out of it, though. Several indie "sandboxes" have attempted to do just that and THAT is lazy design. The trick is to cerate smart and fun systems for the players to use, but at the same time not locking them into preset stories or force-feed them certain activities. 

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1567

2/11/13 4:01:38 AM#44
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

 

 

 

This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

Scroll down to my post.

I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

Thank you big bother *fist in palm*

Don't understand what you mean *fist in palm*?

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  Cname

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/12
Posts: 91

2/11/13 1:31:54 PM#45
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

Fuuny thing is that SnailGames don't promote Age Of Wushu/Wulin as their main flagship sandbox MMO that is coming later this year.

Age Of Wushu is  great game but the best is yet to come from SnailGames.

June 5, 2012 US Pacific Time (June 6, 2012 China Time) - Snail Game’s flagship product Age of Wushu 

They refere to it as their flagship on their own site 

This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

Scroll down to my post.

I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

Snail Game has touted both Savage Horizon or AoW as "the" flagship game at different times. The problem I see is that the company is not large enough  to focus on several products concurrently which is what it is doing now - trying to develop three major MMORPG (AoW, Black Gold and Savage Horizon) at the same time.

Snail often has to shuffle its limited development resources - apparently products which are nearing completion would always have priority. Such a situation occurred in early 2012 for the launch of AoW in China. It was suspected by some that this caused the Product leader of Savage Horizon to become unhappy and partly the reason why he resigned in mid 2012.

Savage Horizon (and the forthcoming Black Gold) was previously both handled by Lu Le - who was in charge of Savage Horizon since 2010 till mid 2012. He once posted a few messages in English to the Dark and Light forum.

The product leader of AoW is Bill Seun - when Lu Le left the company, it was announced that he is in charge of  Black Gold as well.

One thing I noticed is lack of any announcement by Snail on who is overseeing the development of Savage Horizon at present.

Technically, the Savage Horizon client probably uses a more advanced version of Snail's in-house developed common game engine called FLEX of which AoW is considered the 2nd version - the 1st version is the engine used in Snail's first game, Voyage Century. 

 

 

 

"A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

2/11/13 1:45:50 PM#46
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

 

 

 

This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

Scroll down to my post.

I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

Thank you big bother *fist in palm*

Don't understand what you mean *fist in palm*?

It's what you do when you bow in Chinese martial arts.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1567

2/11/13 2:05:35 PM#47
Originally posted by Cname
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

Fuuny thing is that SnailGames don't promote Age Of Wushu/Wulin as their main flagship sandbox MMO that is coming later this year.

Age Of Wushu is  great game but the best is yet to come from SnailGames.

June 5, 2012 US Pacific Time (June 6, 2012 China Time) - Snail Game’s flagship product Age of Wushu 

They refere to it as their flagship on their own site 

This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

Scroll down to my post.

I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

Snail Game has touted both Savage Horizon or AoW as "the" flagship game at different times. The problem I see is that the company is not large enough  to focus on several products concurrently which is what it is doing now - trying to develop three major MMORPG (AoW, Black Gold and Savage Horizon) at the same time.

Snail often has to shuffle its limited development resources - apparently products which are nearing completion would always have priority. Such a situation occurred in early 2012 for the launch of AoW in China. It was suspected by some that this caused the Product leader of Savage Horizon to become unhappy and partly the reason why he resigned in mid 2012.

Savage Horizon (and the forthcoming Black Gold) was previously both handled by Lu Le - who was in charge of Savage Horizon since 2010 till mid 2012. He once posted a few messages in English to the Dark and Light forum.

The product leader of AoW is Bill Seun - when Lu Le left the company, it was announced that he is in charge of  Black Gold as well.

One thing I noticed is lack of any announcement by Snail on who is overseeing the development of Savage Horizon at present.

Technically, the Savage Horizon client probably uses a more advanced version of Snail's in-house developed common game engine called FLEX of which AoW is considered the 2nd version - the 1st version is the engine used in Snail's first game, Voyage Century. 

 

 

 

Pretty sure Savage Horizions Bloodlines is using an in house updated graphics engine called Mafate Engine 2.0. We know it's been rebranded to be called Savage Horizions Bloodlines with a beta hopefully at the end of the year. 

Dark&Light was made on the Mafate Engine 1.0

I'm hoping they can get SHB into beta sooner than later but to be honest if EQNext is waht smed says it is then i won't be playing any other MMO.

The next two years should bring some great sandbox&hybrid mmo's our way that's for sure.

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Seagate Barracuda 2TB HDDs
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  Cname

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/12
Posts: 91

2/11/13 3:51:08 PM#48
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

Pretty sure Savage Horizions Bloodlines is using an in house updated graphics engine called Mafate Engine 2.0. We know it's been rebranded to be called Savage Horizions Bloodlines with a beta hopefully at the end of the year. 

Dark&Light was made on the Mafate Engine 1.0

I was younger then but I have played briefly in the original Dark&Light when it allowed free play shortly before it closed .

From the more recent released pictures and videos of Savage Horizon we can observed certain visual features and elements which look similar to Black Gold (which use the upgraded engine of AoW) - even AoW players might recognized a few familiar elements.

Given the significant difference between graphics and presentation of original D&L versus SHB, and also the legal controversy of the original Mafate engine, I doubt any of its codebase is used. So I think naming the SHB game engine Mafate 2.0 is a bit unlikely.

 

"A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

2/20/13 2:26:22 AM#49
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by SuperNick

Is it me or do most people have their OWN version of 'a sandbox MMO'? People considered SWG sandbox, I can't say I did.

 

"Being able to do what you want" is so generic it's not even funny.

I can do what I want in any MMO, I just won't always succeed at it. If I wanna level naked in WoW I can, is it now a sandbox?


 

The train of thought goes something like this:

I like sandbox games(whatever that is supposed to be).
I like AoW.
Therefore AoW is a sandbox.


Yeah, reasoning isn't a strong suit of average forum poster...

I have never really seen anyone put up a good argument of a concrete definition of a sandbox MMO.. it's one of those things that has so many forms or interpretations the meaning is lost. So really it's all personal opinion.. For me a sandbox MMO is one that runs mainly on player created content.. player created cities, factions, political systems, player created economy, player ran quests. Basically the devs create a world and allow the players to shape it how they will. To me that's a sandbox but obviously others may not agree or not feel you need those things to be considered a sandbox MMO.. i tried AoW and if they fix up the interface and translation i may give it another go but overall i really wouldn't consider it a sandbox MMO by what i view a sandbox MMO to be

This. When a game is dev driven and not player driven it becomes a non-sandbox game. There are sandbox elements in AoW, but the vast majority of the game is very themepark i.e. you do progress and consume content and not create it. That, and there isn't any real affect on the world.


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  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7251

2/20/13 7:22:00 AM#50
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by SuperNick

Is it me or do most people have their OWN version of 'a sandbox MMO'? People considered SWG sandbox, I can't say I did.

 

"Being able to do what you want" is so generic it's not even funny.

I can do what I want in any MMO, I just won't always succeed at it. If I wanna level naked in WoW I can, is it now a sandbox?


 

The train of thought goes something like this:

I like sandbox games(whatever that is supposed to be).
I like AoW.
Therefore AoW is a sandbox.


Yeah, reasoning isn't a strong suit of average forum poster...

I have never really seen anyone put up a good argument of a concrete definition of a sandbox MMO.. it's one of those things that has so many forms or interpretations the meaning is lost. So really it's all personal opinion.. For me a sandbox MMO is one that runs mainly on player created content.. player created cities, factions, political systems, player created economy, player ran quests. Basically the devs create a world and allow the players to shape it how they will. To me that's a sandbox but obviously others may not agree or not feel you need those things to be considered a sandbox MMO.. i tried AoW and if they fix up the interface and translation i may give it another go but overall i really wouldn't consider it a sandbox MMO by what i view a sandbox MMO to be

This. When a game is dev driven and not player driven it becomes a non-sandbox game. There are sandbox elements in AoW, but the vast majority of the game is very themepark i.e. you do progress and consume content and not create it. That, and there isn't any real affect on the world.

Everything in AoW is player driven...

 

Factions have formed btw. Not talking about schools. I'm talking about guild alliances have formed  factions. There're good guys, bad guys and neutrals. Factions as true as any dev manufactured faction game.  Really waging war for land. 

 

Get past the tutorial then come talk to us, and the rest of the gaming world. 

 

edit- just grabbed this quote from you - Look at EvE as a model for successful sandbox games, people build space stations, take over planets, control the economy, enter into politics, etc etc. 

 

They iorny. Will someone fill this guy in. I'm done talking to people who review games they haven't played.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 821

2/20/13 7:28:58 AM#51

Nah, it has too many developer made restrictions and rules that you're forced to play by, for me to consider this a sandbox.

I like it tho as it's quite a different kind of themepark, a step in a very good direction.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7251

2/20/13 7:31:32 AM#52
Originally posted by StarI

Nah, it has too many developer made restrictions and rules that you're forced to play by, for me to consider this a sandbox.

I like it tho as it's quite a different kind of themepark, a step in a very good direction.

What restrictions?

 

edit- You know at this moment, I'm thinking people play the game different ways. Maybe some people really do play the game like a themepark. They quest, they farm materials, and do dungons.

 

Lmao I'm honestly looking at it like this for the first time. I don't do any of this but turn in crazy hours of play. Very interesting.

 

@gary I see what you mean. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Astro6

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/09
Posts: 156

2/26/13 8:06:02 PM#53
Originally posted by Sybnal

I'm not trying to hop into the argument, I think EvE and AoW share similarities but don't desrve to be compared to each other.  Personally I think AoW is an asiangrinder, themebox, sandpark, with a heavy PvP focus and the ability to walk on water.  So it's kind of like an Asian Jesus that will Leisure Kick your argument in the sternum for being so wrong.

asiangrinder??? have you even played aow you can't grind anything same way you can't grind skills in eve online the reason why they are compared to each other is skills are trained over time you can't grind them that includes crafting you are limited to how much exp you can get per day thus it's impossible to grind.

 

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