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Age of Wushu Forum » General Discussion » And Wushu isn't P2Win?

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101 posts found
  User Deleted
1/30/13 10:12:06 PM#81
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Dihoru

See allot of frustrated virgins I do... mmm yes.

 

Guys it is a game, no matter how much more retarded you think the other side (hint: both sides have titanic numbskulls running around) is at the end of the day it is just a game and a half decent one at that. If  you wanna bash something go bash SWTOR or TESO, those two certainly have merit in bashing.

 

Also to anyone thinking that P2W = being able to acquire in-game money with real world money, friend I am afraid you need to go to the doctor to have them check you, EVE-Online, the premier sandbox that is still active and still kicks ass, has the 30 day Plex system in which you can buy a plex with real world money and then sell it on the in-game market ergo getting in-game money for real world money, this in the past has been used by entire alliances to, at least, partially fund their war efforts, did this imbalance the game? Overall no, because those plexing their alliances were checked by people smart enough to outattrition them and AoW can work very much the same.

There is a major difference between EVE and AoW. For one in EVE, the isks you made by selling those 30 day PLEX came from another player. It was not printed out of thin air. You gained isks by providing a service (selling PLEX card) to another player. While it does give you more purchase power, because that money came from providing a service, it keeps a certain 'balance' on the overall game and economy.

In AoW however, converting Gold to Unbound Silver is somewhat similar to a bank printing more money for itself. That money didn't come from the 'market' (a.k.a another player), it was created by you and for your own usage. This gives you the power the purchase anything you want on the spot because you can continue 'printing' more Unbound Silver until ushers knock on your door because you haven't paid your bills for 2 months...but I digress. There is also one other major impact in allowing players to print their own Unbound Silver and it's inflation.  Luckily AoW does seem to have a few ways to take that currency out of the system (Practice Martial Arts for example) but whether that will be sufficient or not remains to be seen.

Still, because of this, AoW 'is' P2W. Giving players the ability to print their own Unbound Silver by converting it from Gold is highly imbalanced, regardless of how 'minor' some players may claim this to be.

there is a cap on the amount of unbound silver u can use for skill cultivation, atm for the NA version the market is so inflated and the situation isnt gonna improve much lol, i remember 9dragons having this problem everything was selling in the millions.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

1/30/13 11:56:34 PM#82
Originally posted by Elminzter
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Dihoru

See allot of frustrated virgins I do... mmm yes.

 

Guys it is a game, no matter how much more retarded you think the other side (hint: both sides have titanic numbskulls running around) is at the end of the day it is just a game and a half decent one at that. If  you wanna bash something go bash SWTOR or TESO, those two certainly have merit in bashing.

 

Also to anyone thinking that P2W = being able to acquire in-game money with real world money, friend I am afraid you need to go to the doctor to have them check you, EVE-Online, the premier sandbox that is still active and still kicks ass, has the 30 day Plex system in which you can buy a plex with real world money and then sell it on the in-game market ergo getting in-game money for real world money, this in the past has been used by entire alliances to, at least, partially fund their war efforts, did this imbalance the game? Overall no, because those plexing their alliances were checked by people smart enough to outattrition them and AoW can work very much the same.

There is a major difference between EVE and AoW. For one in EVE, the isks you made by selling those 30 day PLEX came from another player. It was not printed out of thin air. You gained isks by providing a service (selling PLEX card) to another player. While it does give you more purchase power, because that money came from providing a service, it keeps a certain 'balance' on the overall game and economy.

In AoW however, converting Gold to Unbound Silver is somewhat similar to a bank printing more money for itself. That money didn't come from the 'market' (a.k.a another player), it was created by you and for your own usage. This gives you the power the purchase anything you want on the spot because you can continue 'printing' more Unbound Silver until ushers knock on your door because you haven't paid your bills for 2 months...but I digress. There is also one other major impact in allowing players to print their own Unbound Silver and it's inflation.  Luckily AoW does seem to have a few ways to take that currency out of the system (Practice Martial Arts for example) but whether that will be sufficient or not remains to be seen.

Still, because of this, AoW 'is' P2W. Giving players the ability to print their own Unbound Silver by converting it from Gold is highly imbalanced, regardless of how 'minor' some players may claim this to be.

there is a cap on the amount of unbound silver u can use for skill cultivation, atm for the NA version the market is so inflated and the situation isnt gonna improve much lol, i remember 9dragons having this problem everything was selling in the millions.

Not really surprised to see inflation, it's basic economics and it's only going to get worse.

Quite frankly, the whole Bound/Unbound Silver thing should be replaced by a single currency and gold currency should not be convertible into Silver. I haven't really bothered looking into the Cash Shop and it's content, but if the CS items are not tradeable, then they should be. Allow players to purchase CS items with Gold and trade it to other players for Silver (single currency, no more bound/unbound). That also has the effect of reducing the amount of players turning to Gold Sellers to buy currency when they have access to a legal alternative.

But I'm just writing for the sake of it. It's not going to happen, especially not for a competitive PvP games. Players are always willing to go to high lengths to get a competitive edge even if it means shelling out more and more money to stay on top. I'm rather curious to see how much Snails Games are making from AoW.

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Opapanax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/11
Posts: 983

Most Morbid One

1/31/13 12:13:14 AM#83

[Actually my post from the AoW forums on the very same subject]

We need more people to realize this to have any hope of saving the in game economy. It's ridiculously out of whack. I'm seeing pages for crafts that are rather frequent and only for levels like "Realized Potential" going for 1Ding and up. Thats fucking out of whack, where is the headroom for the actually rare and good recipies?

Same thing goes for equipment in game. I know 54 Def is not the top Tier yet it's up on the market for crazy prices again 1Ding and sometimes more. I see people selling skills like Flying Horse for 4 and 5 Ding. Translate this all over to the irl equivalent in dollars and you can see how dirty the pool on this table is being played.

The more people that pump their cash into the game to buy these overpriced items the more they will continue to inflate until the whole thing bottoms out and every player in AoW will have to take out second mortgages just to play the game.

There comes a point while you're playing where the warning lights should be going off for you. It doesn't matter how well off you are irl or w/e. Being gouged for your money is being gouged for your money man. No one should want to support the type of market action that's going on now.

 

PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  Batzenbaer

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 25

1/31/13 6:32:25 AM#84

Yes i saw some "Realized Potential" Tailor Recipe yesterday in Chengdu.

5 Ding 4 Top thats are 150$.

The best Joke was on Sunday in Tifas Stall.

Crap 61er Top 4 25 Ding.

I think these people are living in a dream world.

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7251

1/31/13 7:36:47 AM#85

I hate to keep bumping this thread, but man. 

Definition -Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

 

players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items, then it will not be as enjoyable as other games since players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill.

AoW doesn't fit either definition.

 

I have abou 1.5 ding, 

 ^Wind Flower Snow Moon^ the most exspensive ability in game,  

Working 2nd internal 19-28, just like everyone else..

dagger with+ 23 dmg +20% to ability,

Silver and copper gear,

and I HAVE NOT SPENT A DIME.

 

It doesn't get any better. Doesn't p2w mean you need to pay or you "lose" or gimped? I just don't get it guys. There are no golden bullets or gear.

 

It's p2w, but you don't have to pay...

 

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  User Deleted
1/31/13 7:43:35 AM#86
Originally posted by bcbully

I hate to keep bumping this thread, but man. 

Definition -Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

 

players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items, then it will not be as enjoyable as other games since players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill.

AoW doesn't fit either definition.

 

I have abou 1.5 ding, 

the most exspensive ability in game,  

Working 2nd internal 19-28, just like everyone else..

dagger with+ 23 dmg +20% to ability,

Silver and copper gear,

and I HAVE NOT SPENT A DIME.

 

It doesn't get any better. Doesn't p2w mean you need to pay or you "lose" or gimped? I just don't get it guys. There are no golden bullets or gear.

 

It's p2w, but you don't have to pay...

 

 

 

Did you buy that pack they are selling that gave you closed beta access, offline store and skill ups? Lets assume its like you say and no need to spend a dime then in few months the game will go bankrupt, yes?

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7251

1/31/13 7:46:42 AM#87
Originally posted by Kenshin_Himura
Originally posted by bcbully

I hate to keep bumping this thread, but man. 

Definition -Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

 

players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items, then it will not be as enjoyable as other games since players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill.

AoW doesn't fit either definition.

 

I have abou 1.5 ding, 

^Wind FLower Snow Moon^ the most exspensive ability in game,  

Working 2nd internal 19-28, just like everyone else..

dagger with+ 23 dmg +20% to ability,

Silver and copper gear,

and I HAVE NOT SPENT A DIME.

 

It doesn't get any better. Doesn't p2w mean you need to pay or you "lose" or gimped? I just don't get it guys. There are no golden bullets or gear.

 

It's p2w, but you don't have to pay...

 

 

 

Did you buy that pack they are selling that gave you closed beta access, offline store and skill ups? Lets assume its like you say and no need to spend a dime then in few months the game will go bankrupt, yes?

No because it has a sub option and 20 million players in China... 

 

edit- No such thing as skill up either.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  User Deleted
1/31/13 8:00:40 AM#88
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Kenshin_Himura
Originally posted by bcbully

I hate to keep bumping this thread, but man. 

Definition -Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

 

players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items, then it will not be as enjoyable as other games since players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill.

AoW doesn't fit either definition.

 

I have abou 1.5 ding, 

^Wind FLower Snow Moon^ the most exspensive ability in game,  

Working 2nd internal 19-28, just like everyone else..

dagger with+ 23 dmg +20% to ability,

Silver and copper gear,

and I HAVE NOT SPENT A DIME.

 

It doesn't get any better. Doesn't p2w mean you need to pay or you "lose" or gimped? I just don't get it guys. There are no golden bullets or gear.

 

It's p2w, but you don't have to pay...

 

 

 

Did you buy that pack they are selling that gave you closed beta access, offline store and skill ups? Lets assume its like you say and no need to spend a dime then in few months the game will go bankrupt, yes?

No because it has a sub option and 20 million players in China... 

 

edit- No such thing as skill up either.

Subscription??? It's advertised as free to play martial arts mmorpg, so now it's also false advertising hmmm interesting. 

Why sub if you don't have to spend a dime?

Perfect world before even come out as perfect world international was claiming to have 50 mil people playing lol

No skill ups offline??? From games page: Offline Gameplay Mode | An offline gameplay mode allows your characters to grow and fight even while you're afk!

and I was asked for real money to have that offline thing active.

  Muppetier

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/09
Posts: 253

1/31/13 8:18:55 AM#89
Originally posted by bcbully

and I HAVE NOT SPENT A DIME.

 

Is the player who "will not spend a dime" entitled to compete with players that are prepared to spend money on a game?

 

Is there a problem with a game that requires you to spend cash to compete at the top level or does it only become a problem when the more cash you spend the more advantage you gain? Or does it become a problem depending upon the amount of money involved?

 

If you could grind in game for 24 hours to gain the same advantage as a cash payer could gain in one week by doing nothing  is that P2Win? What if you needed to grind 200 hours, what about 2000 Hours?

 

FWIW My opinion is that everyone would answer the above questions differently. There is no right definition of P2WIN and the real question should be not "Is the cash shop P2WIN?" but rather "will the cash shop unbalance the game?"

  Scottgun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 340

1/31/13 8:25:05 AM#90
Originally posted by bcbully

 

It's p2w, but you don't have to pay...

How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun."

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1954

1/31/13 8:31:48 AM#91
Originally posted by ragz45

 

How is this not P2WIn?  It seems to be the pure definition of P2Win in my opinion.

Actually my definition of P2Win is that someone get something stronger then what you can get. It seems if the story is true he only got it faster then you. It might make them win in the short run true, but people catch up and they wasted 10.000 dollars. 

  User Deleted
1/31/13 8:35:08 AM#92
Originally posted by Muppetier
Originally posted by bcbully

and I HAVE NOT SPENT A DIME.

 

Is the player who "will not spend a dime" entitled to compete with players that are prepared to spend money on a game?

 

Is there a problem with a game that requires you to spend cash to compete at the top level or does it only become a problem when the more cash you spend the more advantage you gain? Or does it become a problem depending upon the amount of money involved?

 

If you could grind in game for 24 hours to gain the same advantage as a cash payer could gain in one week by doing nothing  is that P2Win? What if you needed to grind 200 hours, what about 2000 Hours?

 

FWIW My opinion is that everyone would answer the above questions differently. There is no right definition of P2WIN and the real question should be not "Is the cash shop P2WIN?" but rather "will the cash shop unbalance the game?"

why not it's already unbalance the game, u buy gold and exchange that for in-game unbound liang with it you can buy all the skills from all schools esp the OP wutang heals/mp, scholar OP skills etc.., u can buy all the def 54 armours and kick ass weapons, health pots, mp pots and then proceed to kick ass heh.

compare that to a player who has to farm all them all, it would literally take him/her months.

atm everyone is training the 2nd inner, the gap gonna get wider and wider when more skills are release hence its gonna make a difference between those who have VIP status and better equip. U dont really need to spend lots of time playing the game, all u need is to do 2 spy missions per day to get the necessary experience for cultivation, just buyg GOLD and pay to WIN.

with OP heals & pots just wear them down, if they run out of mp, they cant kill you and u dont really need skills heh.

combat system is fun if there is a level playing field but w/o lol gl tho as u are food/prey whatever, its gonna get tougher when they release more content.

just saying

 

  User Deleted
1/31/13 8:40:55 AM#93
Originally posted by bcbully

I hate to keep bumping this thread, but man. 

Definition -Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

 

players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items, then it will not be as enjoyable as other games since players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill.

AoW doesn't fit either definition.

 

I have abou 1.5 ding, 

 ^Wind Flower Snow Moon^ the most exspensive ability in game,  

Working 2nd internal 19-28, just like everyone else..

dagger with+ 23 dmg +20% to ability,

Silver and copper gear,

and I HAVE NOT SPENT A DIME.

 

It doesn't get any better. Doesn't p2w mean you need to pay or you "lose" or gimped? I just don't get it guys. There are no golden bullets or gear.

 

It's p2w, but you don't have to pay...

 

 

 

lol u dont hv to pay for NOW, it's still in cbt2, after that all bets are off, as u'll need to pay for VIP status (for your sake I hope there isnt a normal and permium VIP status or u gonna have to pay more roflmao), buy the fastest horse (that cost $30usd lasting a month) from cashshop and when they start selling skills lol guess u hv to buy that too.

yea enjoy the honeymoon period for now...

  Alamareth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

1/31/13 8:51:43 AM#94

When I see things like:

- Inflation is out of control in the market.

- Wudang "heals" are OP.

- Scholars are OP

- Paying to level up skills

And on and on....I know that not a single damned one of you have played the game for more than 10 hours.  Yes, there is a $20 one time fee to access the game early.  That isn't P2W, it's simply B2P.  I'll deconstruct each of the idiotic statements above:

1) Inflation

The price of anything under GCC level drops is tanking, and tanking fast.  The first two flying skills are now under 10 Liang.  Goose has lost nearly 30% of its peak value, and Step on High Ladder is even worse.  People are now running TV in 45 minutes or less.  Random encounters will unlock either skill for 300 Liang, which will eventually force the market to settle near that price.  The game has more silver sinks than I have ever seen in any game, several of which aren't even functional yet (I elaborated on this in my previous post, which you whiners conveniently ignored).

2) Wudangs "Heal"

Nope, they don't heal - at all.  It's an HP/MP swap which only works well in conjunction with the rest of the Taiji sword skillset.  It's a vastly overrated skill and I laugh at the idiots that use it in battle only to realize that they have no internal force to attack anymore.  Oops.

3) Scholars OP

The counter is called goose.  Not only is their "spin to win" on a fixed timer (allowing easy prediction and a free hit), but it's relatively low damage.  I take 200-300 in a couple of ticks, I deal back 4x the damage to them.  Battle over.  Yes, it's seriously nasty if they obtain a skill to seal your flying skills.  However, they are far from the only class that can utlize other school skills to vastly increase the power of their own.  I jailed someone using that combo yesterday during script stealing.

4) Paying to level up skills

Hard cap based on cultivation.  You can drop a huge amount, sure.  Have fun with that.  The rest of the players will catch up to you in about 2 weeks.

Oh and the poster above me overvalued the cost of a 30 day hose by about 6 times.

  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 731

1/31/13 9:00:21 AM#95
Originally posted by Alamareth

When I see things like:

- Inflation is out of control in the market.

- Wudang "heals" are OP.

- Scholars are OP

- Paying to level up skills

And on and on....I know that not a single damned one of you have played the game for more than 10 hours.  Yes, there is a $20 one time fee to access the game early.  That isn't P2W, it's simply B2P.  I'll deconstruct each of the idiotic statements above:

1) Inflation

The price of anything under GCC level drops is tanking, and tanking fast.  The first two flying skills are now under 10 Liang.  Goose has lost nearly 30% of its peak value, and Step on High Ladder is even worse.  People are now running TV in 45 minutes or less.  Random encounters will unlock either skill for 300 Liang, which will eventually force the market to settle near that price.  The game has more silver sinks than I have ever seen in any game, several of which aren't even functional yet (I elaborated on this in my previous post, which you whiners conveniently ignored).

2) Wudangs "Heal"

Nope, they don't heal - at all.  It's an HP/MP swap which only works well in conjunction with the rest of the Taiji sword skillset.  It's a vastly overrated skill and I laugh at the idiots that use it in battle only to realize that they have no internal force to attack anymore.  Oops.

3) Scholars OP

The counter is called goose.  Not only is their "spin to win" on a fixed timer (allowing easy prediction and a free hit), but it's relatively low damage.  I take 200-300 in a couple of ticks, I deal back 4x the damage to them.  Battle over.  Yes, it's seriously nasty if they obtain a skill to seal your flying skills.  However, they are far from the only class that can utlize other school skills to vastly increase the power of their own.  I jailed someone using that combo yesterday during script stealing.

4) Paying to level up skills

Hard cap based on cultivation.  You can drop a huge amount, sure.  Have fun with that.  The rest of the players will catch up to you in about 2 weeks.

Oh and the poster above me overvalued the cost of a 30 day hose by about 6 times.

Hey man, you're making far too much sense here.

People who write stuff like "OMGZ u can buy stuff in teh CS lol this game is so PTW and it sux rofl" will not understand.

Not that it will deter them from posting ill-informed bs all over the place. After all, they've played the turorial so they're totally qualified to talk about in-game mechanics like they're pros.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

1/31/13 10:00:59 AM#96
Originally posted by Alamareth

1) Inflation

The price of anything under GCC level drops is tanking, and tanking fast.  The first two flying skills are now under 10 Liang.  Goose has lost nearly 30% of its peak value, and Step on High Ladder is even worse.  People are now running TV in 45 minutes or less.  Random encounters will unlock either skill for 300 Liang, which will eventually force the market to settle near that price.  The game has more silver sinks than I have ever seen in any game, several of which aren't even functional yet (I elaborated on this in my previous post, which you whiners conveniently ignored).

This is mostly the result of an item becoming increasingly more available (as they were easily to acquire to begin with) so there is no surprise to see price drops. However, inflation will continue to happen so long as players continue to convert Gold to Silver. It's putting a lot of Silver printed out of thin air on the market, and it will just depreciate the currency and thus gradually increase the cost of items.

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Alamareth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

1/31/13 10:12:51 AM#97
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Alamareth

1) Inflation

The price of anything under GCC level drops is tanking, and tanking fast.  The first two flying skills are now under 10 Liang.  Goose has lost nearly 30% of its peak value, and Step on High Ladder is even worse.  People are now running TV in 45 minutes or less.  Random encounters will unlock either skill for 300 Liang, which will eventually force the market to settle near that price.  The game has more silver sinks than I have ever seen in any game, several of which aren't even functional yet (I elaborated on this in my previous post, which you whiners conveniently ignored).

This is mostly the result of an item becoming increasingly more available (as they were easily to acquire to begin with) so there is no surprise to see price drops. However, inflation will continue to happen so long as players continue to convert Gold to Silver. It's putting a lot of Silver printed out of thin air on the market, and it will just depreciate the currency and thus gradually increase the cost of items.

Which is exactly why prices keep dropping for the books that get progressively easier to obtain.  The one irrationality is on upgrade materials and if you want money and don't take advantage of that...well, that isn't my fault or the game's - is it?

People are going crazy over a few school skills, in some cases - for no legitimate reason.  As I said before, there are ways of countering everything that you noted.  If you refuse to even consider my posts, I'm not going to continue responding.

I just wish people here would speak from an informed perspective.  The community here has taken a severe dive from when I first joined.

  Opapanax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/11
Posts: 983

Most Morbid One

1/31/13 11:32:15 AM#98

To people not really feeling the inflation thing. There's also reports of people (the Richest I guess) buying those skills and equipments that are at low prices and then just trashing them so that they can continue to sale the rare skills or most popular skills for insane amounts.

We can argue all day on the P2W element in the game. As non traditional of a P2W that it might be, there's still some very strong elements of P2W, or P2A extreamly faster than others. Skirting around the issue isn't going to help the community of players in the NA version to get a hold on things.

I'm not tying to go into any super battle here, but calling the ones that see the P2W elements silly and that they haven't played the game for more than a few hours is silly. I've put tons of hours into the game, and have watch the prices of the marktet rise, come down and bit and then continue to just inflate.

A skill from one of the normal 8 schools for the game sales for 5Ding man.. There's something seriously wrong there. I'm sorry..

PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  Fdzzaigl

Elite Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2094

1/31/13 1:48:54 PM#99
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
 

So you have this guy who lays down a ton of cash to buy the best crafting recipes from other players and is therefore able to boost his XP conversion through the roof and is also able to convert that XP into cultivation through spending money, and is able to get the best armor / weapons in the game.

He wins against other players who didn't pay because he has an advantage in cultivation and in gear, and possibly in crafting buffs.

Aka, he wins by paying.

Therefore it logically falls within pay 2 win, regardless if others could aquire the same things in due time.

 

Now the extend and severity of the situation could be argued upon. It isn't that bad atm, in my opinion.

So from your logic, anyone being able to spend more time in game than you is P2W? Yeah nice try. It's kinda obvious that anyone who has better gear than you will win in a duel...it doesn't mean its P2W. Buying the best gear (that can be obtain ingame) for real money doesn't mean you will win against someone who has the same gear/player skill. While buying "power" (that can only be bought from the cash shop) will. If you don't understand this, you don't understand P2W at all.

P2W and Pay to skip grind are 2 completely different things that most people doesn't seem to get at all. If pay to skip gring is P2W, then every single F2P MMO is P2W, but its not.

Sorry, wut? Did you even read what I wrote?

I talked about a guy laying down money to get faster gear / XP conversion / cultivation, so he's not spending the ingame time that others do have to spend to get to the same point.

You present your argument of "pay to skip grind =\= pay to win" as a simple truth, because otherwise "all F2P games would be P2W".

Well, I don't agree with you. For logical reasons anyone who is winning by paying more, is paying to win. I'll cite Euclid here: "Things which equal the same thing also equal one another."

So yes, most if not all F2P games do have a P2W aspect to them according to me, even games like Guild Wars 2.

As I also said however, the severity and impact of that aspect can be discussed.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2706

Ignorance is Bliss.

1/31/13 1:59:05 PM#100
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
 

So you have this guy who lays down a ton of cash to buy the best crafting recipes from other players and is therefore able to boost his XP conversion through the roof and is also able to convert that XP into cultivation through spending money, and is able to get the best armor / weapons in the game.

He wins against other players who didn't pay because he has an advantage in cultivation and in gear, and possibly in crafting buffs.

Aka, he wins by paying.

Therefore it logically falls within pay 2 win, regardless if others could aquire the same things in due time.

 

Now the extend and severity of the situation could be argued upon. It isn't that bad atm, in my opinion.

So from your logic, anyone being able to spend more time in game than you is P2W? Yeah nice try. It's kinda obvious that anyone who has better gear than you will win in a duel...it doesn't mean its P2W. Buying the best gear (that can be obtain ingame) for real money doesn't mean you will win against someone who has the same gear/player skill. While buying "power" (that can only be bought from the cash shop) will. If you don't understand this, you don't understand P2W at all.

P2W and Pay to skip grind are 2 completely different things that most people doesn't seem to get at all. If pay to skip gring is P2W, then every single F2P MMO is P2W, but its not.

Sorry, wut? Did you even read what I wrote?

I talked about a guy laying down money to get faster gear / XP conversion / cultivation, so he's not spending the ingame time that others do have to spend to get to the same point.

You present your argument of "pay to skip grind =\= pay to win" as a simple truth, because otherwise "all F2P games would be P2W".

Well, I don't agree with you. For logical reasons anyone who is winning by paying more, is paying to win. I'll cite Euclid here: "Things which equal the same thing also equal one another."

So yes, most if not all F2P games do have a P2W aspect to them according to me, even games like Guild Wars 2.

As I also said however, the severity and impact of that aspect can be discussed.

I wouldn't say most F2P games have a P2W aspect to it, mostly because those F2P games are usually PvE-oriented so the definition of "winning' is a bit different. However, in a Competitive PvP game, allowing players to convert gold to silver gives far too much of an edge that it does fall in the P2W lot like you mentionned.

For a Guild to become fully equipped overnight for instance whereas other guilds would normally take several weeks to achieve not only give that guild a power advantage, but that power will help them quickly acquire components that will make them even stronger and richer while other guilds are still stuck at the grinding stage to equip their members and boost up their castle. That's a massive advantage that could let them gain control over the market as well.

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