Originally posted by Gdemami

Sadly, this has made me uninstall the game.

I liked PVP in the game but it just follows usual grinding/raiding template with focus and dependency on levels and gear. It is only creating huge disparities between new and older players.

Yes, a new player can catch up but and I am not going to grind for months just to be "competitive" :/

Curse of thempark games, I guess :(

edit - nevermind.

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Originally posted by GrayKodiak

This is true in Eve, this was true in UO, this is true in almost any mmorpg.

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Apparently you never played EVE or you just lack understanding how the game works.

Older EVE players are gaining versatility in terms of ships they can fly but they gain very little, diminishing advantage in their specialization - each ship. There is very little effective difference between "decent skills" character that takes weeks to train and "perfect skills" character that takes months to train.

This does not work for AoW tho - the longer you "grind", stronger you are and with more Internals Skills released and direction the game is heading, this disparity will be stronger and stronger...

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Originally posted by AresPL

this isnt dota or GW2 or anything else like that

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Nope, it's WoW(no insult) :/

Originally posted by Gdemami

Apparently you never played EVE or you just lack understanding how the game works.

Older EVE players are gaining versatility in terms of ships they can fly but they gain very little, diminishing advantage in their specialization - each ship. There is very little effective difference between "decent skills" character that takes weeks to train and "perfect skills" character that takes months to train.

This does not work for AoW tho - the longer you "grind", stronger you are and with more Internals Skills released and direction the game is heading, this disparity will be stronger and stronger...

But would a new player in EVE who can only fly a frigate stood a real chance in PvP against a veteran with a black ops battleship?

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Originally posted by Cname

But would a new player in EVE who can only fly a frigate stood a real chance in PvP against a veteran with a black ops battleship?

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They would not be able to kill each other.

That is the beauty of EVE and sandbox design. Battleship, despite taking much longer to train effectively, isn't any better ship than a "basic" frigate.

Battleships and Frigates are completely different ships with different use. Ships in EVE are just tools and where player skill and wit comes into play, not skill points your character has.

Originally posted by Cname

Originally posted by Gdemami

Apparently you never played EVE or you just lack understanding how the game works.

Older EVE players are gaining versatility in terms of ships they can fly but they gain very little, diminishing advantage in their specialization - each ship. There is very little effective difference between "decent skills" character that takes weeks to train and "perfect skills" character that takes months to train.

This does not work for AoW tho - the longer you "grind", stronger you are and with more Internals Skills released and direction the game is heading, this disparity will be stronger and stronger...

But would a new player in EVE who can only fly a frigate stood a real chance in PvP against a veteran with a black ops battleship?

Hell no they wouldn't and even Gdemami knows this, whether he wants to admit it or not. I have played Eve and the idea that someone two weeks old is anymore than cannon fodder for the other side or the jump gate brigade is ridiculous.
 

Not to mention a real two week old player in Eve simply lacks both the skills AND the ISK to compete against any would be attacker of any real merit.

Several two week old players in Eve, with the right tactics, can be a problem for another ship with much more experience but that is true in Wushu as well, several two week old characters can kill you...Period.

This idea that ships are just tools totally ignores the isk investments and skill investments needed for drones and fittings.

 

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Originally posted by GrayKodiak

This idea that ships are just tools totally ignores the isk investments and skill investments needed for drones and fittings.

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Nope, you just lack deeper understanding about the game...

because so many eve tournament winners are two week old characters.

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Originally posted by GrayKodiak

because so many eve tournament winners are two week old characters.

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Tournaments do not represent open PVP which is what EVE PVP is about. They only represent that...tournaments..

Tournaments are completely artificial style of PVP that has NO resemblance in EVE.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by GrayKodiak

 

because so many eve tournament winners are two week old characters.

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Tournaments do not represent open PVP which is what EVE PVP is about. They only represent that...tournaments..

Tournaments are completely artificial style of PVP that has NO resemblance in EVE.

Wellll then...

Fear not, you can definately be competitive in open world PvP within 14 days of getting into Wushu as well. I assumed you were using the tried and true 1vs1 formula but now that you have clarified then yes, within a few weeks you to can be competitive in Wushu. In fact I have a 10 day old character that was number 9 in the World Dueling arena's (1vs1) ranking and number 23 in the last school war. Not the best of the best but doing just fine for 10-12 days in. He gets curbed stomped by certain skill sets wielded by the maxxed out people but in the world arena he does just fine.

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Originally posted by GrayKodiak

Wellll then...

Fear not, you can definately be competitive in open world PvP within 14 days of getting into Wushu as well. I assumed you were using the tried and true 1vs1 formula but now that you have clarified then yes, within a few weeks you to can be competitive in Wushu. In fact I have a 10 day old character that was number 9 in the World Dueling arena's (1vs1) ranking and number 23 in the last school war. Not the best of the best but doing just fine for 10-12 days in. He gets curbed stomped by certain skill sets wielded by the maxxed out people but in the world arena he does just fine.

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That is nothing I was talking about nor your "leeching" on group of other players proves anything.

AoW world PVP is structured nothing like EVE. AoW is heavily character advancement, gear and group dependent, EVE is not.

That isn't anything particularly negative, I am just pointing out differences and what I am missing in AoW because I believe more horizontal approach is much more suitable for PVP centered game as it allows you to focus more on PVPing rather than "grinding" and character advancement.

Eve is still a gear and progression dependant game.  The difference between t1 and t2 is like night and day, t2 drones do a lot more damage, t2 ammo is a game changer and open up more playstyles (ever tried to nano or snipe using depleted uranium?), t2 tank is a must for most serious corps (not that long to get there though, maybe 20 days for full t2 modules for both shield and armor, yes, its not that long in eve :P) and t2 ships are waaaaaaaay better than their lesser hulls.  Modules and ships are gear and spec at same time.

 

Same thing with support skills,  all those lil 2% to 5% bonus to damage tank and drones (surgical strikes, weapon/drones specialization, etc...) really adds up in the end, and man do they take a long time to train.  Lets say a noob gets in a rifter.  Most probably he has lvl 4 in frigs and weapons, support skills at lvl 3.  Vet gets in a rifter,  he has lvl 5 everywhere plus weapon spec and shit and t2 guns.  Do the mats man, his rifter is gonna do like 30% t0 40% (a lot) more dps and  his tank will be sturdier (a lot since he have a t2 small rep bigger hp pool etc).

 

Its easy to forget that, since eve is a team game.  Go do 1v1 with ppl you trust, you'll see that very often (not always) SPs will dictate the winner. People in this game rarely get outplayed since there is so little input from player in combat compared to other games, skill in eve comes from outmaneuvering your opponents, outsmarting them, or stomp em with greater numbers.

 

You're problably thinking 'if you solo or 1v1 in eve, you dumb its a team game' and you'll be right.  But still, the 'team game' aspect of it really mask the fact that newbs are weak and vets are strong.  But they can still be useful in a group environment,  just like you can be useful in AoW in a group, even if your inner is only lvl 10.  And in 1v1, you stand a lot more chance in wushu as a noob agaisnt a vet than in eve (well maybe not as 2 days old noob but you'll be competitive in a shorter time frame than in eve, believe me) .

 

And BTW, if a guy in a Black ops BS gets in a fight against a frig without Neuts and drones and webs and whatnot, then he really really fails and is bad at this game.

 

My 0.00005 cents. 

 

(i like both games btw)

 

 

And also Dgemani, do we really play the same EvE? didnt you know that 'group-leeching' is actually how your pvp success is measured in this game?Assists and kills are the same thing in killboards and god people abuse that lol.

 

And eve is not group dependant?!?!  What the hell are you smoking really?  Its one of the least solo friendly game i've ever played.  Solo pvp is hard as shit and widely considered something really foolhardy.

 

 

 

Why are you even arguing with this guy? He's either trolling or ignorant - either way he has no valid points whatsoever.

Newbies in EVE can solo PvP just fine? Yeah right.

Also, I don't understand this aversion to character progression that some people display. Too heavy a focus on char skill can be an issue in a badly designed game like Darkfall, where you had to grind (and macro) to even survive and where there was no mechanics preventing maxed chars from griefing newbs 24/7. Also, DF was all about endgame PvP and nothing else so in order to enjoy yourself you had to grind up your char asap.

However, with AoW's design new players don't have to face maxed out vets griefing them around the clock, and there are plenty of fun stuff to do while leveling your char. Sure, you can't expect to win many 1v1 fights right off thebat, but then again why should you? It's an RPG, not a shooter.

A lot of the PVP in AoW is cat and mouse anyway.  When a patroller starts stalking a spy, the spy's goal is to get away from the patroller with his information tokens.  That means running and hiding.  Fighting will just call attention to yourself.  Everyone is perfectly capable of doing spy missions right from the get go.  The same goes for a lot of the other PVP situations you get yourself into.  Low levels can kidnap, they just need to run away rather than fight those that come after them.  Even major conflicts like script stealing can be accomplished by low internal characters, they just need to be sneakier and able to run away.  One of my favorite things about AoW is that the content is actually fun, right from the beginning.   The entire game feels like endgame.    I enjoyed the game a lot once i got through the initial story quest crap. 

Originally posted by BigHatLogan
A lot of the PVP in AoW is cat and mouse anyway.  When a patroller starts stalking a spy, the spy's goal is to get away from the patroller with his information tokens.  That means running and hiding.  Fighting will just call attention to yourself.  Everyone is perfectly capable of doing spy missions right from the get go.  The same goes for a lot of the other PVP situations you get yourself into.  Low levels can kidnap, they just need to run away rather than fight those that come after them.  Even major conflicts like script stealing can be accomplished by low internal characters, they just need to be sneakier and able to run away.  One of my favorite things about AoW is that the content is actually fun, right from the beginning.   The entire game feels like endgame.    I enjoyed the game a lot once i got through the initial story quest crap. 

So true, I'm having fun with guild war, school war and other missions. I don't have to worry about grinding, the system does it for you.

Originally posted by Gdemami

Sadly, this has made me uninstall the game.

I liked PVP in the game but it just follows usual grinding/raiding template with focus and dependency on levels and gear. It is only creating huge disparities between new and older players.

Yes, a new player can catch up but and I am not going to grind for months just to be "competitive" :/

Curse of thempark games, I guess :(

 

I thought he canceled the download?  Now which is it?  ;P
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5485558#5485558

And if he actually played the game, he would also know that there IS an auction house (no need to run from stall to stall):
Hit the V Key > All The Cargo > choose item category > choose quality > refresh

We enjoy this game and have fun playing it. That fact for some reason seems to be causing him ulcers, because why else post numerous negative posts, spewing insults and continuously spreading false info ?

Gladly there are way more enjoyable and informative posts around here from the likes of bcbully, GrayKodiak and Biskop.
 

Originally posted by theoccult

Originally posted by Gdemami

Sadly, this has made me uninstall the game.

I liked PVP in the game but it just follows usual grinding/raiding template with focus and dependency on levels and gear. It is only creating huge disparities between new and older players.

Yes, a new player can catch up but and I am not going to grind for months just to be "competitive" :/

Curse of thempark games, I guess :(

 

I thought he canceled the download?  Now which is it?  ;P
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5485558#5485558

And if he actually played the game, he would also know that there IS an auction house (no need to run from stall to stall):
Hit the V Key > All The Cargo > choose item category > choose quality > refresh

We enjoy this game and have fun playing it. That fact for some reason seems to be causing him ulcers, because why else post numerous negative posts, spewing insults and continuously spreading false info ?

Gladly there are way more enjoyable and informative posts around here from the likes of bcbully, GrayKodiak and Biskop.
 

Do you know why there are so many negative posts? It's actually not about the game. It's about the fact this is the most unique game from Asia. There is no way Asia can produce such an innovative game.