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Path of Exile Forum » General Discussion » PoE's problems are too big.

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30 posts found
  Ryowulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 668

2/11/13 7:13:12 PM#21

In normal mode its fairly easy with most builds to reach 30, but I will say the boss at the end of act 2 is so much more powerful than act one that its easy for a new player to be annoyed at how hard it is to solo.

Because its so easy and quick to solo at the start its like running into a brick wall when the game throws someone really hard at you.  I think the game could scale better. 

I would rather have my own loot too. If the game can put my name on it then it shouldn't be to hard to make it only pickable by me.

Anyway the fun of the game is trying not in how fast you can reach endgame.

  Fuchsia

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 8

2/11/13 7:16:22 PM#22
Originally posted by adam_nox

If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

 

This has been sort of my turn-off to the game too.  I don't have a ton of time to spend playing, so if I come up with a bad build for my character it means I have to start over and spend several months to get back to where I was.  The need to spec for more defense isn't an issue to me, but perma-gimp of the character *I think* is a deterrent for similarly minded people.

 

I think they should keep it how it is for Hardcore, but allow some better way for people in the non-hardcore mode to change their points around easily.  Or add a third mode that allows for it, maybe?

 

How fun would it be to constantly try new builds and untested combinations?  If we were able to experiement with all types of different play styles until we find one that we absolutely love, I would be totally motivated to max my character out.

 

To each their own.  I am sure many people love it the way it is, but for me, its no bueno. :(

  Esuarfeeee

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/12
Posts: 78

2/11/13 7:18:47 PM#23
Spoiler Alert:  You only need survivability

  Zefire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 698

2/11/13 7:22:45 PM#24
Originally posted by adam_nox

If you have a group of friends to play this with, and are willing to spec defense, you will probably have fun. 

 

If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

 

I'm so bad I barely made it to act 3, only after starting my own group advertising open portal to vaal.  Vaal had 5 spitters summoned, and if there was a hint of lag or I failed ot move constantly, I was insta killed.  This was after I had switched from evasion armor to armor armor and got rid of necro aegis just so I wouldn't die in one hit to normal enemies.

 

It's too bad too.  With the sphere grid there's a lot of potential, but it's wasted in the way enemies attack and damage you, making defensive nodes 10x better, and minions constantly horrible. 

 

So I wanted to group, but every open group I found was just people scattered about, usually having already completed whatever the group was started for.   And if you can get people together in one spot for a boss kill, they will ninja your loot before you can even run to pick it up. 

 

I never thought I'd praise D3's multiplayer game setup, but at least with it, people would generally be on the same page and everyone have their own loot.  It's too bad the the game in general wasn't like D2.  Imagine getting to just join instantly a cow level or baal run without having to use the lobby.  It would have been sweet.  But oh well. 

 

So I've only played solo, and my char is a glass gimp.  I'll either wait till the game evolves or until I can convince a couple people to play with me.  Tired of taking spitters to the face.  (oh and don't even get me started on the instance reset timers).

From what you say looks like you are a victim of the simplified games that are releasing the last 10 years.

Your brain became rusty because you got used to simple games that does not require you to think or search or use your imagination.

Thus you come into a game that has mechanics like games used to have 10 years ago.A game that requires from the player to actually think for the best result.

After you played the game you realised that you cant make it because you have lost all of your abilities to think,imagine prepare for the worst etc etc.

Then you come to the forums to say that this game is difficult and other crapy things.

Guess what stop playing games that are simple and try to play games that requires you to put that fucking brain of yours into a working state rather than just clicking with the mouse and someday you will thank me for this.

 

  SuperNick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 382

2/11/13 7:23:19 PM#25
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by SuperNick

Any developer that punishes the players for choices designed by them are the ones in the wrong.

People making excuses to the effect of "learn to choose what's overpowered!!" is just covering up the design balance of a game, which this game has none of.

Well, thats certainly one perspective... But designing a game, so that there isn't any real chance of making nasty mistakes, while it may be popular in some quarters, is inherently limited.

Freedom has its consequences. One of those is that you can and will make mistakes, and there will be consequences.  How you deal with those is more a matter of experience and character, than anything else.

These types of games are famous for their flexibility, and for those experienced with them, infamous for not hand holding their players.  If you don't use common sense, and think things through, you are going to get hammered.

 

I read an article about this once and I believe it was called "the illusion of choice". The short version is that you can choose to include 100 skills or 10 skills in your game. In the 100 version, players will believe they have a huge choice but eventually everyone will come to the conclusion only 10 are useful, and use them. If you go with the 10 skill version, people will complain about there being too little choice but you won't have to suffer player loss as a result of people ignoring the trends and trying to get those other 90 skills to work.

Basically it boiled down to customer retention - if you present a system to people where they have to navigate a trial-and-error minefield of underpowered systems, there are very select few which will find this entertaining (aka your hardcore players), the rest will simply disappear without a whisper.

I realize balance is not the easiest thing to strike in a game like this, or any game for that fact but in this day and age you'd think it would be one of the primary agendas in development. Even Blizzard are guilty of screwing the Witch-doctor and monk over, which to my knowledge are still in a state of "meh" comparatively.

Sure, no one wants a game to hold their hand and remove all sense of challenge but trial-and-error choice until you end up with the strongest spec is akin to an FPS game saying their game is hard because AI one shots you every time it sees you; cheap is the word there.

  Tsumoro

Elite Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 300

2/11/13 7:47:50 PM#26
Originally posted by adam_nox

If you have a group of friends to play this with, and are willing to spec defense, you will probably have fun. 

 

If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

 

I'm so bad I barely made it to act 3, only after starting my own group advertising open portal to vaal.  Vaal had 5 spitters summoned, and if there was a hint of lag or I failed ot move constantly, I was insta killed.  This was after I had switched from evasion armor to armor armor and got rid of necro aegis just so I wouldn't die in one hit to normal enemies.

 

It's too bad too.  With the sphere grid there's a lot of potential, but it's wasted in the way enemies attack and damage you, making defensive nodes 10x better, and minions constantly horrible. 

 

So I wanted to group, but every open group I found was just people scattered about, usually having already completed whatever the group was started for.   And if you can get people together in one spot for a boss kill, they will ninja your loot before you can even run to pick it up. 

 

I never thought I'd praise D3's multiplayer game setup, but at least with it, people would generally be on the same page and everyone have their own loot.  It's too bad the the game in general wasn't like D2.  Imagine getting to just join instantly a cow level or baal run without having to use the lobby.  It would have been sweet.  But oh well. 

 

So I've only played solo, and my char is a glass gimp.  I'll either wait till the game evolves or until I can convince a couple people to play with me.  Tired of taking spitters to the face.  (oh and don't even get me started on the instance reset timers).

I feel for you I really do, but I don't think this is a problem with the game. Its working as its intended. The thing is, if you have played other ARPG's like Diablo or Torchlight you might have fallen down the 'expectation trap'. That is because the games work differently. 

With Torchlight and Diablo, you essentially play the game, level up and with their limited builds in place no matter the options you pick you can't really 'gimp' your character. You are able to change things around and progress. This is to push through the game and reach the conclusion of the story and perhaps, if you are interested push into NG+ or the next difficulty etc. 

Path of Exile is differen't. It is a challenge based game. The idea and premise about the game (which for me as been pretty apparent from all the media about the game released) is that you take this massive build tree, skills, gear and flasks and make a build to push as FAR as you can take it. The idea is to make interesting builds and keep plugging away as far as you can. Reaching the level cap of 100 is not the objective, its to push yourself further and further. 

Now, for me I made a ranger and wanted to make a glass cannon (much like how you did) and found that I got to around act 3 doing the very first mission whihc I think was the lovers one and I was getting my ass handed to me. So much so I decided to start again. I therefore made a Marauder and tried to make my own build, taking away what I thought would be the norm cookie cutter like build and started to think how I wanted to play, what skills, what weapons etc etc. I pushed harder and harder and I was happy with the results. 

During this play I got myself some nice loot, stuff I put into my bank. Then when I re-visited my ranger build I found that the gear was very viable for the build I had made, I repceed 2 points, moved a passive around and changed a skill gem and hey presto I was able to push further with my ranger. 

Its what I love about this game, it have a lot of personality to it. 

  HeroEvermore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/09
Posts: 692

Banned 18 times and counting.

2/12/13 6:13:37 AM#27
Leap slammed my Maurader from 20-46 today. xp is easy if you know what places to farm. The gme certainly has its frustrations at times. Some mobs are just to powerful and I have to avoid a lot of life leech bosses on my maurader that i never had to avoid on my witcher build. Defense is very overpowered in this game because offense boosts still dont make the kills that much faster...some mobs just dont wanna die and have silly large hp pools or elemental resists, etc. I think the game is a tad to hard in its act 3 setting of merciless but this is the first time I have really felt "stuck" momentarily. I am also a soloer. Snakes kick my witchers booty. Thankfully minions are amazing and tank the game for her. Hard games are good, that much i know. If I had already hit lvl 100 id be pretty dissapointed.

Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  HeroEvermore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/09
Posts: 692

Banned 18 times and counting.

2/12/13 6:15:35 AM#28
Originally posted by Tsumoro
Originally posted by adam_nox

If you have a group of friends to play this with, and are willing to spec defense, you will probably have fun. 

 

If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

 

I'm so bad I barely made it to act 3, only after starting my own group advertising open portal to vaal.  Vaal had 5 spitters summoned, and if there was a hint of lag or I failed ot move constantly, I was insta killed.  This was after I had switched from evasion armor to armor armor and got rid of necro aegis just so I wouldn't die in one hit to normal enemies.

 

It's too bad too.  With the sphere grid there's a lot of potential, but it's wasted in the way enemies attack and damage you, making defensive nodes 10x better, and minions constantly horrible. 

 

So I wanted to group, but every open group I found was just people scattered about, usually having already completed whatever the group was started for.   And if you can get people together in one spot for a boss kill, they will ninja your loot before you can even run to pick it up. 

 

I never thought I'd praise D3's multiplayer game setup, but at least with it, people would generally be on the same page and everyone have their own loot.  It's too bad the the game in general wasn't like D2.  Imagine getting to just join instantly a cow level or baal run without having to use the lobby.  It would have been sweet.  But oh well. 

 

So I've only played solo, and my char is a glass gimp.  I'll either wait till the game evolves or until I can convince a couple people to play with me.  Tired of taking spitters to the face.  (oh and don't even get me started on the instance reset timers).

I feel for you I really do, but I don't think this is a problem with the game. Its working as its intended. The thing is, if you have played other ARPG's like Diablo or Torchlight you might have fallen down the 'expectation trap'. That is because the games work differently. 

With Torchlight and Diablo, you essentially play the game, level up and with their limited builds in place no matter the options you pick you can't really 'gimp' your character. You are able to change things around and progress. This is to push through the game and reach the conclusion of the story and perhaps, if you are interested push into NG+ or the next difficulty etc. 

Path of Exile is differen't. It is a challenge based game. The idea and premise about the game (which for me as been pretty apparent from all the media about the game released) is that you take this massive build tree, skills, gear and flasks and make a build to push as FAR as you can take it. The idea is to make interesting builds and keep plugging away as far as you can. Reaching the level cap of 100 is not the objective, its to push yourself further and further. 

Now, for me I made a ranger and wanted to make a glass cannon (much like how you did) and found that I got to around act 3 doing the very first mission whihc I think was the lovers one and I was getting my ass handed to me. So much so I decided to start again. I therefore made a Marauder and tried to make my own build, taking away what I thought would be the norm cookie cutter like build and started to think how I wanted to play, what skills, what weapons etc etc. I pushed harder and harder and I was happy with the results. 

During this play I got myself some nice loot, stuff I put into my bank. Then when I re-visited my ranger build I found that the gear was very viable for the build I had made, I repceed 2 points, moved a passive around and changed a skill gem and hey presto I was able to push further with my ranger. 

Its what I love about this game, it have a lot of personality to it. 

Great insight. /tips hat

Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1272

2/12/13 6:34:54 AM#29

Trap builds are bad design. For example, right now Evasion builds are quite crappy in PoE. In fact, most Ranger builds go for Iron Reflexes ASAP. However, Evasion may look ok to a new player, unless that new player follows the forums. Following the forums shouldn't be required to enjoy a video game. A player shouldn't get punished for the developers' mistakes.

All of this leads back to the old-school features present in PoE, such as the lack of full respecs. Some think it's hardcore. I think it leads to either spending hours making your build (cool, but most people don't want to), copying a build from the net (not cool) or gimping yourself (not cool). Most importantly, it does not encourage creativity, because creativity requires experimentation and most of us simply don't have the time or willingness to experiment 20+ hours per build.

  jpnole

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1648

2/14/13 12:43:37 AM#30
Originally posted by adam_nox

If you have a group of friends to play this with, and are willing to spec defense, you will probably have fun. 

 

If not, then your fun won't last.  I gimped my char.  I don't play long hours, so it took me a long time to get to 30, and I will wait before starting over.  I went all offense, and even then I don't kill things fast solo, but they kill me fast, including usually 1-shotting my minions. 

 

I'm so bad I barely made it to act 3, only after starting my own group advertising open portal to vaal.  Vaal had 5 spitters summoned, and if there was a hint of lag or I failed ot move constantly, I was insta killed.  This was after I had switched from evasion armor to armor armor and got rid of necro aegis just so I wouldn't die in one hit to normal enemies.

 

It's too bad too.  With the sphere grid there's a lot of potential, but it's wasted in the way enemies attack and damage you, making defensive nodes 10x better, and minions constantly horrible. 

 

So I wanted to group, but every open group I found was just people scattered about, usually having already completed whatever the group was started for.   And if you can get people together in one spot for a boss kill, they will ninja your loot before you can even run to pick it up. 

 

I never thought I'd praise D3's multiplayer game setup, but at least with it, people would generally be on the same page and everyone have their own loot.  It's too bad the the game in general wasn't like D2.  Imagine getting to just join instantly a cow level or baal run without having to use the lobby.  It would have been sweet.  But oh well. 

 

So I've only played solo, and my char is a glass gimp.  I'll either wait till the game evolves or until I can convince a couple people to play with me.  Tired of taking spitters to the face.  (oh and don't even get me started on the instance reset timers).

Ahhh once again Mr. Nox chimes in to bash PoE. For your assistance, I highlighted the reasons why PoE is not working out for you in your own words in red font. Personally I am straight melee marauder level 54 Act 3 Cruel and still going strong. Also your argument about ninja looters is null and void. There is no such thing as ninja looting. The rules of the game are you get to your drop before the timer is up or it's up for grabs. If you run in a pack of six in one of the good farming friendly maps, the drops will be so frequent that even if you get a few things "ninja'd", you will still get more rares & orbs than if you solo. Also the best thing to do is start your own multiplayer game, open a portal and wait for a few players to come through. Then all of you go off and start together. I will say that PoE is not a game for ARPG amateurs or those who like it easy. Your thread title is nothing more that a rationalization or excuse for not having learned to play PoE yet.

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