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The Repopulation Forum » General Discussion » Combat- Tab Target vs Aiming

15 posts found
  Howbadisbad

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/14
Posts: 16

 
OP  2/08/14 8:29:02 AM#1

So the one thing that I wish would change based on what I've seen so far is the tab targeting combat. I know the Normal server is supposed to appeal to a larger population of gamers so the game won't get wrecked due to low income because hardcore is a niche market. Due to this I think this change would be better if it only hit the hardcore server, since they are already doing other stuff to differentiate hardcore from softcore.


The proposed change is actually two options I would like to present.

1) Aimed mode has a damage increase over tab target (either server can have this)
2) Tab target is removed entirely (hardcore server only)


1) This is my main recommendation for the combat system. As for explaining #1 making aimed mode deal more damage, this is because there needs to be a reason to use aimed mode aside from 'thinking it looks nice'. Because looking at whats being said currently, there is no reason to used aimed mode because tab target is superior. With Tab target you will not accidentally shoot the wrong enemy if another one runs in front of you or you mess up. Tab targeting will also give you a superior view of your surroundings and more situational awareness because of this. The only way to give aimed mode a chance, is to give it a slight damage buff.

Giving aimed mode a damage buff will NOT cause tab target to become obsolete due to the fact that it will have superior 'accuracy' when large amounts of enemies are on the field in both PvP and PvE.

This will give small gang PvP a more player skill based focus, while giving large scale combat a more tactical focus. The same holds true for PvE, when you need to target a certain creature to kill amid all the others.

2) This option is only for hardcore because it might alienate people on the softcore server, causing a low player influx, which would eventually kill the game.

The reasoning behind this is to make PvP more skillful all around, I can see this negatively impacting large scale PvP though so this is actually not optimal imo.


For either of these changes to work aim mode also needs to lose its soft lock targeting and probably have a more TERA like shooting style. (if you attack while their on your cursor you will always hit unless they have iframes)


Overall I think that players should be rewarded for being technically skilled in both PvP and PvE, especially in small encounters.

Comments and suggestions welcome, I plan to eventually post this on the repop forums.

Waiting for: The Repopulation

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

2/08/14 11:34:31 AM#2
Action mode receives benefits from having more mobility, less skill bindings (aim at a head activates head shot skills), and knowing exactly when a player is blocking los and therefore shots.  While I too would like forced manual aim, I realize that other reasons for it not to exist, mainly it would benfit hackers greatly. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Howbadisbad

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/14
Posts: 16

 
OP  2/08/14 11:49:36 AM#3


Originally posted by xpiher
Action mode receives benefits from having more mobility, less skill bindings (aim at a head activates head shot skills), and knowing exactly when a player is blocking los and therefore shots.  While I too would like forced manual aim, I realize that other reasons for it not to exist, mainly it would benfit hackers greatly. 

Less skillbinds is not really much of a benefit when you have to manually aim for the head (which you can mess up). Skillbinds guarantee you will be doing what you want, when you want. Superior control makes it the superior combat type here.

As for knowing when a player is LOSing you, this can easily be told from any point of view, and the worst that can happen is you miss a shot that you wouldn't have made anyway. A non issue really.

Hacking is rarely an issue for a well developed game, and if it actually did ever become an issue, I'm sure they would get on it since they seem to be more in touch with their playerbase than the standard.

I'm also not sure where you are getting 'more mobility' from in action mode. If you could link me to that? But logic dictates that unless action mode has some sort of bonus to movement speed or something, RPG will once again triumph due to more situational awareness due to seeing more of the battlefield.

Waiting for: The Repopulation

  Dullahan

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 753

Death to Themepark.

3/21/14 1:58:25 PM#4
Originally posted by Howbadisbad

 


Originally posted by xpiher
Action mode receives benefits from having more mobility, less skill bindings (aim at a head activates head shot skills), and knowing exactly when a player is blocking los and therefore shots.  While I too would like forced manual aim, I realize that other reasons for it not to exist, mainly it would benfit hackers greatly. 

 

Hacking is rarely an issue for a well developed game...

Welcome to online gaming.  You're in for a rude awakening.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  PAL-18

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 724

3/21/14 2:19:56 PM#5

Why not do aiming like Fallout 1&2 (i loved those) if twitch based is too much.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  SirBalin

Warmonger

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1055

3/23/14 10:32:57 PM#6
Originally posted by Howbadisbad

So the one thing that I wish would change based on what I've seen so far is the tab targeting combat. I know the Normal server is supposed to appeal to a larger population of gamers so the game won't get wrecked due to low income because hardcore is a niche market. Due to this I think this change would be better if it only hit the hardcore server, since they are already doing other stuff to differentiate hardcore from softcore.

 


The proposed change is actually two options I would like to present.

1) Aimed mode has a damage increase over tab target (either server can have this)
2) Tab target is removed entirely (hardcore server only)

 


1) This is my main recommendation for the combat system. As for explaining #1 making aimed mode deal more damage, this is because there needs to be a reason to use aimed mode aside from 'thinking it looks nice'. Because looking at whats being said currently, there is no reason to used aimed mode because tab target is superior. With Tab target you will not accidentally shoot the wrong enemy if another one runs in front of you or you mess up. Tab targeting will also give you a superior view of your surroundings and more situational awareness because of this. The only way to give aimed mode a chance, is to give it a slight damage buff.

Giving aimed mode a damage buff will NOT cause tab target to become obsolete due to the fact that it will have superior 'accuracy' when large amounts of enemies are on the field in both PvP and PvE.

This will give small gang PvP a more player skill based focus, while giving large scale combat a more tactical focus. The same holds true for PvE, when you need to target a certain creature to kill amid all the others.

2) This option is only for hardcore because it might alienate people on the softcore server, causing a low player influx, which would eventually kill the game.

The reasoning behind this is to make PvP more skillful all around, I can see this negatively impacting large scale PvP though so this is actually not optimal imo.


For either of these changes to work aim mode also needs to lose its soft lock targeting and probably have a more TERA like shooting style. (if you attack while their on your cursor you will always hit unless they have iframes)


Overall I think that players should be rewarded for being technically skilled in both PvP and PvE, especially in small encounters.

Comments and suggestions welcome, I plan to eventually post this on the repop forums.

This was actually why I left the game from the alphas (not saying anything breaking nda, just what the community already knows).  The game is smothered with care bears...that's the people testing.  You won't see changes to aid in pvp...won't happen.  There should be no option for aim to shoot vs tab target...the two can't both exist...and it'll hurt this one.  In the end the only way to play will be tab target unless they get rid of the option.  Sorry it's the truth...love josh and what he's doing here...but the testers need more pvpers and less pvers to get the right decisions...

Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

3/24/14 4:29:06 AM#7
Originally posted by SirBalin
Originally posted by Howbadisbad

So the one thing that I wish would change based on what I've seen so far is the tab targeting combat. I know the Normal server is supposed to appeal to a larger population of gamers so the game won't get wrecked due to low income because hardcore is a niche market. Due to this I think this change would be better if it only hit the hardcore server, since they are already doing other stuff to differentiate hardcore from softcore.

 


The proposed change is actually two options I would like to present.

1) Aimed mode has a damage increase over tab target (either server can have this)
2) Tab target is removed entirely (hardcore server only)

 


1) This is my main recommendation for the combat system. As for explaining #1 making aimed mode deal more damage, this is because there needs to be a reason to use aimed mode aside from 'thinking it looks nice'. Because looking at whats being said currently, there is no reason to used aimed mode because tab target is superior. With Tab target you will not accidentally shoot the wrong enemy if another one runs in front of you or you mess up. Tab targeting will also give you a superior view of your surroundings and more situational awareness because of this. The only way to give aimed mode a chance, is to give it a slight damage buff.

Giving aimed mode a damage buff will NOT cause tab target to become obsolete due to the fact that it will have superior 'accuracy' when large amounts of enemies are on the field in both PvP and PvE.

This will give small gang PvP a more player skill based focus, while giving large scale combat a more tactical focus. The same holds true for PvE, when you need to target a certain creature to kill amid all the others.

2) This option is only for hardcore because it might alienate people on the softcore server, causing a low player influx, which would eventually kill the game.

The reasoning behind this is to make PvP more skillful all around, I can see this negatively impacting large scale PvP though so this is actually not optimal imo.


For either of these changes to work aim mode also needs to lose its soft lock targeting and probably have a more TERA like shooting style. (if you attack while their on your cursor you will always hit unless they have iframes)


Overall I think that players should be rewarded for being technically skilled in both PvP and PvE, especially in small encounters.

Comments and suggestions welcome, I plan to eventually post this on the repop forums.

This was actually why I left the game from the alphas (not saying anything breaking nda, just what the community already knows).  The game is smothered with care bears...that's the people testing.  You won't see changes to aid in pvp...won't happen.  There should be no option for aim to shoot vs tab target...the two can't both exist...and it'll hurt this one.  In the end the only way to play will be tab target unless they get rid of the option.  Sorry it's the truth...love josh and what he's doing here...but the testers need more pvpers and less pvers to get the right decisions...

Execpt Action mode plays exactly like ESO/TSW which means its useless without other things right? Also, free aim on the Hardcore server will make it easier to prevent you from hitting your friends. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Aroukos

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 584

3/24/14 4:34:24 AM#8
The only target system i like more than tab target is the Wildstar's one. Its really the first time i feel this is what it must be.
  DanMan3395

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 11

Skol Vikings!

3/24/14 4:43:52 PM#9
Originally posted by SirBalin
Originally posted by Howbadisbad

So the one thing that I wish would change based on what I've seen so far is the tab targeting combat. I know the Normal server is supposed to appeal to a larger population of gamers so the game won't get wrecked due to low income because hardcore is a niche market. Due to this I think this change would be better if it only hit the hardcore server, since they are already doing other stuff to differentiate hardcore from softcore.

 


The proposed change is actually two options I would like to present.

1) Aimed mode has a damage increase over tab target (either server can have this)
2) Tab target is removed entirely (hardcore server only)

 


1) This is my main recommendation for the combat system. As for explaining #1 making aimed mode deal more damage, this is because there needs to be a reason to use aimed mode aside from 'thinking it looks nice'. Because looking at whats being said currently, there is no reason to used aimed mode because tab target is superior. With Tab target you will not accidentally shoot the wrong enemy if another one runs in front of you or you mess up. Tab targeting will also give you a superior view of your surroundings and more situational awareness because of this. The only way to give aimed mode a chance, is to give it a slight damage buff.

Giving aimed mode a damage buff will NOT cause tab target to become obsolete due to the fact that it will have superior 'accuracy' when large amounts of enemies are on the field in both PvP and PvE.

This will give small gang PvP a more player skill based focus, while giving large scale combat a more tactical focus. The same holds true for PvE, when you need to target a certain creature to kill amid all the others.

2) This option is only for hardcore because it might alienate people on the softcore server, causing a low player influx, which would eventually kill the game.

The reasoning behind this is to make PvP more skillful all around, I can see this negatively impacting large scale PvP though so this is actually not optimal imo.


For either of these changes to work aim mode also needs to lose its soft lock targeting and probably have a more TERA like shooting style. (if you attack while their on your cursor you will always hit unless they have iframes)


Overall I think that players should be rewarded for being technically skilled in both PvP and PvE, especially in small encounters.

Comments and suggestions welcome, I plan to eventually post this on the repop forums.

This was actually why I left the game from the alphas (not saying anything breaking nda, just what the community already knows).  The game is smothered with care bears...that's the people testing.  You won't see changes to aid in pvp...won't happen.  There should be no option for aim to shoot vs tab target...the two can't both exist...and it'll hurt this one.  In the end the only way to play will be tab target unless they get rid of the option.  Sorry it's the truth...love josh and what he's doing here...but the testers need more pvpers and less pvers to get the right decisions...

I enjoy PvP and prefer the tab target. FPS does not own the term pvp. I LOVE dice based pvp games and this game still sounds great.

Skol Vikes!

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4590

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

3/24/14 4:49:47 PM#10

why is the player doing the aiming? Isn't that the character's job?

 

twitch combat doesn't fit in MMOs. your character's skills and stats and abilities should determine the outcome of a cast, not the player's ability to move the mouse.

 

also, I'm sure most people who support twitch combat probably have this glorious picture of an epic 1 v 1... now imagine a 100 v 100. are you still blocking the incoming attack, then retaliating for that amazing headshot? no, you're just aoe-swinging into the group of enemies who's aoe-swinging into your group with healers casting aoe heals on both sides.

 

a game can have twitch-based gameplay in small-scale bg and arenas...it's perfectly fine. but in large-scale open world pvp it's sub-par.

  SirBalin

Warmonger

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1055

3/24/14 11:34:01 PM#11
Originally posted by Robokapp

why is the player doing the aiming? Isn't that the character's job?

 

twitch combat doesn't fit in MMOs. your character's skills and stats and abilities should determine the outcome of a cast, not the player's ability to move the mouse.

 

also, I'm sure most people who support twitch combat probably have this glorious picture of an epic 1 v 1... now imagine a 100 v 100. are you still blocking the incoming attack, then retaliating for that amazing headshot? no, you're just aoe-swinging into the group of enemies who's aoe-swinging into your group with healers casting aoe heals on both sides.

 

a game can have twitch-based gameplay in small-scale bg and arenas...it's perfectly fine. but in large-scale open world pvp it's sub-par.

Are you trolling or is this real?  

Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"

  Datawarlock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 311

You have been issued a temporary ban by one of our moderators.Category: Trolling!

3/25/14 12:03:44 AM#12
Originally posted by SirBalin
Originally posted by Robokapp

why is the player doing the aiming? Isn't that the character's job?

 

twitch combat doesn't fit in MMOs. your character's skills and stats and abilities should determine the outcome of a cast, not the player's ability to move the mouse.

 

also, I'm sure most people who support twitch combat probably have this glorious picture of an epic 1 v 1... now imagine a 100 v 100. are you still blocking the incoming attack, then retaliating for that amazing headshot? no, you're just aoe-swinging into the group of enemies who's aoe-swinging into your group with healers casting aoe heals on both sides.

 

a game can have twitch-based gameplay in small-scale bg and arenas...it's perfectly fine. but in large-scale open world pvp it's sub-par.

Are you trolling or is this real?  

Heh.... it's on this site, you'll never be able to separate them lol

“Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.” – Adolf Hitler

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1387

3/25/14 12:18:51 AM#13
Originally posted by SirBalin
Originally posted by Robokapp

why is the player doing the aiming? Isn't that the character's job?

 

twitch combat doesn't fit in MMOs. your character's skills and stats and abilities should determine the outcome of a cast, not the player's ability to move the mouse.

 

also, I'm sure most people who support twitch combat probably have this glorious picture of an epic 1 v 1... now imagine a 100 v 100. are you still blocking the incoming attack, then retaliating for that amazing headshot? no, you're just aoe-swinging into the group of enemies who's aoe-swinging into your group with healers casting aoe heals on both sides.

 

a game can have twitch-based gameplay in small-scale bg and arenas...it's perfectly fine. but in large-scale open world pvp it's sub-par.

Are you trolling or is this real?  

Possible sarcasm on his part.  I really hope they have support for aim to shoot on the hardcore server and skip the tab target.  I find tapping tab all the time to be a pain in the ass and then you cycle to the closest one.  Really nothing positive that I can find about tab target other than it will close the PvP skill gap quite a bit.

  SirBalin

Warmonger

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1055

3/26/14 1:44:47 PM#14
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by SirBalin
Originally posted by Robokapp

why is the player doing the aiming? Isn't that the character's job?

 

twitch combat doesn't fit in MMOs. your character's skills and stats and abilities should determine the outcome of a cast, not the player's ability to move the mouse.

 

also, I'm sure most people who support twitch combat probably have this glorious picture of an epic 1 v 1... now imagine a 100 v 100. are you still blocking the incoming attack, then retaliating for that amazing headshot? no, you're just aoe-swinging into the group of enemies who's aoe-swinging into your group with healers casting aoe heals on both sides.

 

a game can have twitch-based gameplay in small-scale bg and arenas...it's perfectly fine. but in large-scale open world pvp it's sub-par.

Are you trolling or is this real?  

Possible sarcasm on his part.  I really hope they have support for aim to shoot on the hardcore server and skip the tab target.  I find tapping tab all the time to be a pain in the ass and then you cycle to the closest one.  Really nothing positive that I can find about tab target other than it will close the PvP skill gap quite a bit.

Since switching to aim to shoot games, I just don't enjoy tab target at all...and you can not have tab target with aim to shoot otn the pvp server...won't work.  The original kickstarter should have stated something like this, one of the selling points to me when I backed was action combat...but hell if it's action combat that'll be trumped by tab targeting baddys...give me my rather large donation back...

Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

3/27/14 1:30:02 AM#15
Positing and friendly fire means that action mode will be the better choice for people who are good with it. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher