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The Repopulation Forum » General Discussion » Wait. Hero Engine?

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53 posts found
  BadOrb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 717

5/23/13 10:57:07 AM#21

The engine wasn't costly for SWTOR , the Q & A for all the options within SWTOR's different paths was very costly. Even the VO's themselves where not costly either. Not sure how or where you got your false information from.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  JC-Smith

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/11
Posts: 310

5/23/13 11:12:17 AM#22

One other thing I'd like to add along the lines of the original post. I just wanted to mention that we are pretty happy with Hero Engine in general. Every engine has its strengths and weaknesses but overall, even if we had an unlimited budget I think our choice would be to stick with Hero Engine. The only thing we might change if we did would be to use a deferred rendering engine with Hero's core.

Hero Engine isn't a cutting edge graphics engine, but it can produce graphics competitive with other MMOs. But the other areas of Hero Engine really shine. Productivity wise, it's fantastic. Being able to make script changes and have them working in game immediately is a huge productivity boost, as is the collaberative editing tools. Some of our alpha testers can attest to how easy it is to change things on the fly while people are playing. Where in an engine not designed for this sort of thing your looking at restarts and patches and losing a ton of productivity in the process.

While many players might look at things like Unreal Engine, Crytek, Unigine, and wonder why we didn't go those routes instead. They are after all better graphics engines. But they don't tackle the MMO specific issues that Hero Engine does. Seamless world design and on-seam proxies is a complex feature that most single player or small group games don't need and do not invest time in. As is spatial awareness (which allows things like phasing), and being able to introduce data easily on the fly without causing issues to players. Parts systems and character customization. Client side caching, communication between many types of servers where most single player engines are really designed with a one server (the game or zone server) in mind. Those are all things that take time to develop and test properly. So using an MMO specific engine such Hero Engine is a huge time saver for developers.

http://www.therepopulation.com - Scfi Fi Sandbox.

  Loregaba

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/13
Posts: 8

6/02/13 8:28:15 AM#23

JC-Smith, I find your post very informative, quite useful indeed. You're doing teacher work here, thanks. Always using the right tone and attitude. You show knowledge and wisdom, your game will rock for a long time. Keep posting, it`s always interesting to read.

Steven

  TheJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 492

"Yes...... that's a Duck Staff of D00M!!!"

6/02/13 11:11:39 AM#24
looks like a odd setup

....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 758

6/02/13 11:25:38 AM#25
As many have said before. The Hero Engine BW used on swtor was an unfinished alpha version that shouldnt have been used at all. The Hero engine has matured and is now ready for real use.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  VincerKaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 459

6/02/13 1:03:11 PM#26

As a backer I'm obviously following this game as close as my free and available time permits me.

So far, I'm very pleased with what I've seen and read, and hope to get an invite to test. But I'm very patient, and am very comfortable with the pace that the developers have taken. I hope they take as long as they need to make this game as strong as possible.

I'm further encouraged by the communication by the project team, including Kayletta who posts here also. I get the sense that the game and its direction is in good hands.

 

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

6/05/13 9:58:59 AM#27
Originally posted by DSWBeef
As many have said before. The Hero Engine BW used on swtor was an unfinished alpha version that shouldnt have been used at all. The Hero engine has matured and is now ready for real use.

Not sure if it was alpha or beta, but it wasn't done, that's for sure. As a 20 year IT Pro and hobbyist programmer, it amazes me how little people really understand technology and software development.  As if Hero engine is doomed to eternal failure simply because it was purchased in an unfinished state, and likely mismanaged on the TOR project so long ago. As if there are no new versions, improvements, or additional features added over time since Bioware purchased it.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2525

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

6/05/13 10:02:05 AM#28
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
It is a poor workman that blames his tools.

Truth

  Mkilbride

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/01/07
Posts: 583

 
OP  6/05/13 11:13:39 AM#29
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DSWBeef
As many have said before. The Hero Engine BW used on swtor was an unfinished alpha version that shouldnt have been used at all. The Hero engine has matured and is now ready for real use.

Not sure if it was alpha or beta, but it wasn't done, that's for sure. As a 20 year IT Pro and hobbyist programmer, it amazes me how little people really understand technology and software development.  As if Hero engine is doomed to eternal failure simply because it was purchased in an unfinished state, and likely mismanaged on the TOR project so long ago. As if there are no new versions, improvements, or additional features added over time since Bioware purchased it.

I didn't just say SWTOR. Every game to use it to date has failed.

Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

6/05/13 11:20:14 AM#30
Originally posted by Mkilbride
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DSWBeef
As many have said before. The Hero Engine BW used on swtor was an unfinished alpha version that shouldnt have been used at all. The Hero engine has matured and is now ready for real use.

Not sure if it was alpha or beta, but it wasn't done, that's for sure. As a 20 year IT Pro and hobbyist programmer, it amazes me how little people really understand technology and software development.  As if Hero engine is doomed to eternal failure simply because it was purchased in an unfinished state, and likely mismanaged on the TOR project so long ago. As if there are no new versions, improvements, or additional features added over time since Bioware purchased it.

I didn't just say SWTOR. Every game to use it to date has failed.

And it would seem many of them failed for reasons other than the engine itself.  As was skillfully explained by developer JC-Smith, the engine is a shell.  Most of the game play code and everything else you experience in an MMO still has to be written into the engine. I'm not trying to say Hero is perfect, but what I do like about it is that indy developers have a real shot at building a great game using it, since they don't have to spend years and untold millions of dollars writing their own from scratch.  By the way, I've seen awful games that licensed other well known engines too.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

6/30/13 2:21:38 AM#31
I hated SWTOR as much as anyone, and I went into it super stoked and excited.  I understand the concern, but don't fret the engine, they used a really old and primitive version that they kind of made their own.  You should watch videos of what the newer versions of the engine can do, it's actually VERY impressive.
  Ziegler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 140

7/24/13 10:24:07 AM#32
I recall one of the SWTOR Devs bragging about how they had customized Hero Engine to their liking...this was to deflect someone posting concerns on their forums about the hero engine...So yeah...they heavily modded the engine on their end if they are to be believed.
  Isane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2691

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

8/18/13 3:09:10 AM#33

I really am starting to hate the scare mongering threads that OP's seem to like posting these days so much easier than promoting the positives and overall benefits of games being developed.

This game which is "In Development" , still has a lot of potential and positives. Normally when people just look for the shock factor posts it means that a game has something going for it.

I prefer to give games a chance and this one in particular as it has a number of systems that are in depth enough that , so decent gameplay can be had and that not just being combat.

 

Not sure this thread adds a lot to any discussion here.

________________________________________________________
SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 590

8/19/13 5:12:40 AM#34
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
It is a poor workman that blames his tools.

Truth

Yes.

It just does not apply to this case. HeroEngine is not a tool, it is a material. Tools is something you use to create a product, but is not a part of it, a material is something you add to a product that then becomes a part of it.

HeroEngine code is a part of the product, not just a tool to create it, and thus it is not a tool.

  Demarii

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 131

2/11/14 12:32:50 AM#35
Originally posted by hfztt
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
It is a poor workman that blames his tools.

Truth

Yes.

It just does not apply to this case. HeroEngine is not a tool, it is a material. Tools is something you use to create a product, but is not a part of it, a material is something you add to a product that then becomes a part of it.

HeroEngine code is a part of the product, not just a tool to create it, and thus it is not a tool.

You do realize you just argued some weird form of reverse semantics to an old saying as it was being applied to a game engine by taking one particular usage of the word "Tool" ignoring all the other more relevant contexts and as a result you have made yourself look like yet another urban usage of that same word.

Bravo!

 

  karmath

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/05
Posts: 841

2/11/14 12:42:27 AM#36

The engine has fundamental lag issues. It's why SWTOR had content cut, and why all those other games got canned because it lagged like hell. I'm not sure if it still has no muticore support whatsoever, but it did not at SWTOR release it had to be chopped in, and even then it still lagged like crap.

In a nutshell, its akin to what beats by dre are to the headphone world. Shiny package, pure shit inside.

  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 685

2/11/14 1:23:50 AM#37
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DSWBeef
As many have said before. The Hero Engine BW used on swtor was an unfinished alpha version that shouldnt have been used at all. The Hero engine has matured and is now ready for real use.

Not sure if it was alpha or beta, but it wasn't done, that's for sure. As a 20 year IT Pro and hobbyist programmer, it amazes me how little people really understand technology and software development.  As if Hero engine is doomed to eternal failure simply because it was purchased in an unfinished state, and likely mismanaged on the TOR project so long ago. As if there are no new versions, improvements, or additional features added over time since Bioware purchased it.

My problem with this is that it just doesn't seem to pass the smell test.  EA sunk how many 10s of millions into turning that "alpha" version of the Hero Engine into something that would work well for them and they failed and you expect me to believe that the developer managed to magically overcome all the major issues with likely far less resources?  I suppose it's possible that the people EA had working on SWTOR were just unbelievably inept and the people the developer got to upgrade the Hero Engine are amazing... but I'm skeptical.

  xpiher

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

2/11/14 6:40:02 AM#38
Originally posted by reeereee
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DSWBeef
As many have said before. The Hero Engine BW used on swtor was an unfinished alpha version that shouldnt have been used at all. The Hero engine has matured and is now ready for real use.

Not sure if it was alpha or beta, but it wasn't done, that's for sure. As a 20 year IT Pro and hobbyist programmer, it amazes me how little people really understand technology and software development.  As if Hero engine is doomed to eternal failure simply because it was purchased in an unfinished state, and likely mismanaged on the TOR project so long ago. As if there are no new versions, improvements, or additional features added over time since Bioware purchased it.

My problem with this is that it just doesn't seem to pass the smell test.  EA sunk how many 10s of millions into turning that "alpha" version of the Hero Engine into something that would work well for them and they failed and you expect me to believe that the developer managed to magically overcome all the major issues with likely far less resources?  I suppose it's possible that the people EA had working on SWTOR were just unbelievably inept and the people the developer got to upgrade the Hero Engine are amazing... but I'm skeptical.

SWTOR was built from the ground up to be a co-op RPG. The hero engine wasn't what made the game suck, it was the design philosophy. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
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Warhammer - Xpiher

  Boogiee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 6

2/16/14 6:35:38 PM#39
Originally posted by xpiher

SWTOR was built from the ground up to be a co-op RPG. The hero engine wasn't what made the game suck, it was the design philosophy. 

Exactly.

 

What amazes me is how many people make negative posts about an engine, when they have no clue what an engine even does.  It's all because they read some posts on some forums by some other ignorant posters stating how it's all the hero engines fault.

 

SWTOR lagged because they didn't design the game to function well with multiple people on the screen at the same time.  The polygon count for the characters were way to high to have anything but lag when you got a bunch of characters on the screen at the same time.  I know the Hero engine was a great scapegoat for the SWTOR devs.. but it wasn't the issue... their design decisions were.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13110

2/16/14 6:44:08 PM#40

Hooray for bumping really old threads?

It's not the engine you use.  It's what you do with it that matters.

If you have the full source code and can change things however you want, then the precise details of the engine you launch with is on you.  And if you don't have the source code and are trying to launch a major commercial game that you don't have the source code for, then the problem is that you don't have the source code to your own game.  That's a problem of idiot developers, not of a bad game engine.

Yes, some engines are much better than others for particular purposes--and which engine is better for you depends very strongly on what you want to do with it.  But that gets filtered through so many layers of what the developers of a particular game do to customize the engine for their particular game that people who only play the game can't really judge much about the commercial version of the engine.

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