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The Repopulation Forum » General Discussion » Cash shop in a player-crafted world

18 posts found
  Denambren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/08
Posts: 304

 
OP  3/03/13 11:23:02 PM#1

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

3/04/13 12:00:34 AM#2

Cant, not properly anyways. THen again F2P with a sandbox will be rough to pull off also. The one thing i am weary about coming from this game.

Its either going to be play to win, though they said it will be cosmetics. If thats true and they stick to their word, ill be happy. But when you toss cosmetics on a cash shop you are kind of defeating the purpose of a player based economy.

Really think they should make this game a subscription game and get rid of the cash shop. They arent seeming to put much expectations on their own game by going F2P right out of the box. And they claim it will attract more people to play, which may be true. But they are not attracting people that will pay lol. No money = no longevity. Even with a subscription, this game rocks and they will get a nice following. Especially old SWG fans and older games alike. 

Do the right thing!

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7156

3/04/13 12:06:10 AM#3
Originally posted by Denambren

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

It can. 

 

Get over it. You don't get to play for free.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

3/04/13 12:13:26 AM#4
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Denambren

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

It can. 

 

Get over it. You don't get to play for free.

 

Noticed you have a age of wushu picture under your name.

That game was to be a player driven economy with a cash shop. I play AOW, the economy is screwed up big time due to the bound silver from cash shop and honestly its no good.

When you toss in real world currency into a games economy you throw it way out of proportion. Even simple material costs $$$ of real world currency. So anyone with more money than someone else will be better off. Sounds kind of like pay to win scenario does it not?

A real gods honest player driven economy can not have a cash shop to suplement or disturb the foundation of said economy. It will not work.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7156

3/04/13 1:31:00 AM#5
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Denambren

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

It can. 

 

Get over it. You don't get to play for free.

 

Noticed you have a age of wushu picture under your name.

That game was to be a player driven economy with a cash shop. I play AOW, the economy is screwed up big time due to the bound silver from cash shop and honestly its no good.

When you toss in real world currency into a games economy you throw it way out of proportion. Even simple material costs $$$ of real world currency. So anyone with more money than someone else will be better off. Sounds kind of like pay to win scenario does it not?

A real gods honest player driven economy can not have a cash shop to suplement or disturb the foundation of said economy. It will not work.

Man idk what your talking about. Don't think you do either. Craft, steal, profit.  A Week old toon can make enough for anything they need. I'm still looking for something to spend money on. I feel like I'm robbing these guys. Been playing since November of the same $9.99

 

If I can play a game w/o spending a penny and have more than people who have, I'm ok with that.  It's almost like devs are coming up with a new model for idiiots. P2L, pay to lose...

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  JC-Smith

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/11
Posts: 311

3/04/13 7:10:13 AM#6
Unless your actually selling stat items or resources (which Repop doesn't), having a cash shop should not have any affect whatsoever on the economy.

http://www.therepopulation.com - Scfi Fi Sandbox.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12095

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

3/04/13 7:26:51 AM#7
Originally posted by JC-Smith
Unless your actually selling stat items or resources (which Repop doesn't), having a cash shop should not have any affect whatsoever on the economy.

Agreed. It all depends on what the item mall offers.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  IG-88

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 130

3/04/13 8:45:41 AM#8

Ive been taught that "There is no such thing as a free lunch", but todays kids seem to think they can get something for nothing.

 

If a game is worth playing, its worth paying for and subscriptions i sthe best choice.

 

  TheHavok

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2421

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

3/04/13 9:04:21 AM#9
Originally posted by Onomas

Cant, not properly anyways. THen again F2P with a sandbox will be rough to pull off also. The one thing i am weary about coming from this game.

Its either going to be play to win, though they said it will be cosmetics. If thats true and they stick to their word, ill be happy. But when you toss cosmetics on a cash shop you are kind of defeating the purpose of a player based economy.

Really think they should make this game a subscription game and get rid of the cash shop. They arent seeming to put much expectations on their own game by going F2P right out of the box. And they claim it will attract more people to play, which may be true. But they are not attracting people that will pay lol. No money = no longevity. Even with a subscription, this game rocks and they will get a nice following. Especially old SWG fans and older games alike. 

Do the right thing!

 

1)Not true at all - not sure where you came up with this idea but i've played many games with cash shops (Some blantantly pay to win, some with slight gameplay buffs, and some cosmetic only) and the devs simply make the items account bound and non-tradable and there is no issues whatsoever effecting a player based economy.

2)Have you not seen the rise and fall of the MMOs in the last few years? The subscription based model is fading out.  F2P is the future whether you like it or not.  It makes games much more accessible to many more players and thus drives in more revinue that otherwise would have been lost if those same players would have never tried the game.

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

3/04/13 9:52:04 AM#10
Originally posted by Denambren

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

From what I understand, the Cash Shop will be purely cosmetic items.

For example- To make the best gun all the materials, parts and pieces are obtained from with-in the gameworld, but if you want it to have a polished stainless steel or camo look you buy the "skin" in the cash shop.

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5315

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

3/04/13 9:56:33 AM#11
Originally posted by Denambren

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

players are running the in game economy, not the servers. Whos gonna pay them if the game is free? the cash shop

Note: if the game is not free then screw the cash shop.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Denambren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/08
Posts: 304

 
OP  3/04/13 10:09:15 AM#12

Kind of weird that it's becoming more of a trend for people to say "the devs have to make money, you can't play for free" when someone disagrees with a cash shop.

 

I'm guessing the newest generation of gamers aren't aware of other pay models (such as subscription)?

 

The issue with a cash shop and sandbox/player-crafted world is that you open another market that competes with the player market. If some of the more attractive cosmetic items are only available in the cash shop, you lower the potential sales for cosmetic sales players and their overall value/contribution to the game.

 

But people are now seeing this as a necessary evil to make profit, since F2P cash shop is the new trend-philosophy for payment models. And these necessary evils continue to grow with each game, all the while contributing to the lengthening age of greed before gameplay, with profit being the first question to every single MMO design decision. Want to design a combat system? How can it maximize profit? Want to design of character customization feature? How can we maximize profit? Want to make a pet system? How can we maximize profit? The notion of making a fun game with fun features that draws in players (for profit) is a profit model that must be deemed as obsolete as the subscription model. 

 

If The Repopulation were another Guild Wars 2 with its ultra theme park design and B2P cash shop model, that would be fine. But it's a sandbox, player-driven economy - there isn't any room for a cash shop because the players should be the ONLY shop. Long-time SWG vets know that cosmetic items are just as valuable as any weapon, armor, or stat item you can get your hands on. Do we accept sacrificing cosmetic items as a player-driven resource for the sake of today's F2P philosophy? You can't deny the profitability of F2P, and we want a game we enjoy to succeed so that it can grow, so I guess that's really what the question is. Have we accepted this sacrifice and now move forward with "modernized-profit-modded-sandbox" ideas as a sandbox standard?

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2887

3/04/13 10:18:46 AM#13

How it can work in a sandbox: Cosmetic options for items (paints, skins, emblems, etc), items which decay innevitably to a broken state, make cosmetic options really cheap (50 cents for a paint, 20 cents for an emblem,etc) and allow the cosmetic stuff to be traded, make all items in-game have the possibility to take 5-6 different paints and maybe allow paint mixing to discover new types of paints. Done, it does not affect the in-game economy, devs profit, players have cheap options for uniqueness which they understand will not last forever but which anyone can afford ( I mean honestly, if you wanted to look unique spend 10-15 bucks paint your gear and either use it until broke or keep it for gala events).

 

Edit: A further idea: Allow paint scraps to be salavged from items, scraps which then can be mixed using a chemistry-type skill to create more paint but have it so it takes quite a few scraps and other chemicals to get paint, you could do it but it takes time and also you get paint scraps from drops but only as rare drops.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7156

3/04/13 10:25:48 AM#14
Originally posted by Denambren

Kind of weird that it's becoming more of a trend for people to say "the devs have to make money, you can't play for free" when someone disagrees with a cash shop.

 

I'm guessing the newest generation of gamers aren't aware of other pay models (such as subscription)?

 

The issue with a cash shop and sandbox/player-crafted world is that you open another market that competes with the player market. If some of the more attractive cosmetic items are only available in the cash shop, you lower the potential sales for cosmetic sales players and their overall value/contribution to the game.

 

But people are now seeing this as a necessary evil to make profit, since F2P cash shop is the new trend-philosophy for payment models. And these necessary evils continue to grow with each game, all the while contributing to the lengthening age of greed before gameplay, with profit being the first question to every single MMO design decision. Want to design a combat system? How can it maximize profit? Want to design of character customization feature? How can we maximize profit? Want to make a pet system? How can we maximize profit? The notion of making a fun game with fun features that draws in players (for profit) is a profit model that must be deemed as obsolete as the subscription model. 

 

If The Repopulation were another Guild Wars 2 with its ultra theme park design and B2P cash shop model, that would be fine. But it's a sandbox, player-driven economy - there isn't any room for a cash shop because the players should be the ONLY shop. Long-time SWG vets know that cosmetic items are just as valuable as any weapon, armor, or stat item you can get your hands on. Do we accept sacrificing cosmetic items as a player-driven resource for the sake of today's F2P philosophy? You can't deny the profitability of F2P, and we want a game we enjoy to succeed so that it can grow, so I guess that's really what the question is. Have we accepted this sacrifice and now move forward with "modernized-profit-modded-sandbox" ideas as a sandbox standard?

Only if no developer offered free. The cat's out the bag though. One year ago, I felt exactly like you. 

 

I'm no fool, and I know boost, buying gold, etc. has always been part of the p2w definition. I railed against GW2 selling gold, and the way the economy seemed deliberatly design to keep players broke.  It was a problem, surprisingly it wasn't close to the reason why I stopped playing.

 

Then came AoW. The game is simply too good to pass because some lazy idiot wants to pay rediculous amounts, for something I'm selling, that took 30 mins to get. 

 

If there was a sub only mmorpg as good as AoW, sure I'd be all over it. There's not though, and it doesn't look like there will be anything close in the forseeable future.

 

That being said. If The Repop is as good as AoW, cash shop or not, I'm gonna be there. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  theAsna

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/09
Posts: 303

3/04/13 12:08:48 PM#15
Originally posted by Denambren

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

 

An MMO with a player-driven economy will most likely be a sandbox type game.

 

In themepark games crafting is redundant. Players will find equal or better equipment when doing content (PvP or PvE). Additonally there are certain restrictions on items to shift the incentive on doing content (bind on pickup-items, bind on equip items). Trading crafted items has the same restrictions which hampers trade. Trade will focus rather on tradeable things (i.e. crafting ingredients).

 

In a sandbox game there is hardly a need to sell adventure packs. What is left, is to offer account improvements (e.g. additional character slots) and access to certain races/classes that didn't ship initially. Regarding crafting the cash shop options should be limited. It doesn't look good if a company tries sell crafting ingredients/schematics in a sandbox game. Selling equipment/consumables could as well result in a bad image for the company. I'll gladly pay for a game (e.g. subscription + optionally some other goodies). But when I get the feeling that the company is overdoing it/starts being greedy then I'll think twice.

Crafting will most probably focus on collecting the ingredients and then process those ingredients to get a specific result (e.g. armor with certain stats/effects). The resulting item will most likely have a design which is determined by the company's visual artists. I could imagine that a company might try to sell alternate designs/appearance kits for said equipment. Which would be OK.

 

  Meconium

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/13
Posts: 1

3/14/13 1:36:46 PM#16
I think the cash for game time that can also be sold on the ingame market is a good working model. Along with that if the sandbox has player owned land there is the route of selling the in game land or the rights for player groups to accupy/controll/build area's in game but if not done just right it could be a major problem as well.
  User Deleted
3/20/13 1:23:30 PM#17
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Denambren

So uh.. where's the thread that wonders how a cash shop can function with a player-driven economy game?

 

It can. 

 

Get over it. You don't get to play for free.

 

Noticed you have a age of wushu picture under your name.

That game was to be a player driven economy with a cash shop. I play AOW, the economy is screwed up big time due to the bound silver from cash shop and honestly its no good.

When you toss in real world currency into a games economy you throw it way out of proportion. Even simple material costs $$$ of real world currency. So anyone with more money than someone else will be better off. Sounds kind of like pay to win scenario does it not?

A real gods honest player driven economy can not have a cash shop to suplement or disturb the foundation of said economy. It will not work.

Ugh dont give him a reason to promote his game in yet another unrelated thread...

 

Anyway, this games going to be interesting.  Cash shops are always a double edged sword.  Yeah they start out fantastic....but then how many games do you see threads along the line "was a great game untill they got greedy with the cash shop"  yeah cash shops change over time.  What starts as a low impact cash shop can quickly change to a cash shop with a high impact on the game, economy and gameplay.  Wushu is a good example of high impact with the bound money. Wrecks the economy.

Another problem i see is the two server two ruleset mindset.  A real sandbox needs pve players and needs pvp to feed the pve players work in replacing what is lost in pvp.  Having a pve only server is going to have all the pve players crafting and hording and the pvp servers will be lacking an economy and play more like an arena.  Both worlds need to coexist for a good sandbox to work.

 

I really dont have high hopes for this game.  If they can get over the hurdle of an indy sandbox with clunky gameplay in an unfinished world, theyll then have to tackle their problems related to catering to the pve only crowd in a sandbox.

 

 

 

  RocSek

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/08
Posts: 59

3/20/13 8:57:56 PM#18

Except this game doesn't have a "PvE" server. It has a normal server and then a server with more hardcore rules. The normal server will have plenty of PvP in the player nation city areas, where the hardcore rules will add more danger to more places in game, not just the player city areas.

I would suggest going and reading though their website and see what the devs have to say about the game before makeing posts like this.

All I heard was... "Well aren't you just a little lolly pop triple dipped in psycho."