Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by CreepProphet

 

I doubt the crayons or the tone are 100% necessary. So let's take a deep breath and discuss.

Wouldn't CCP be considered both an Independant MMO developer and a Sandbox game? They seem to do pretty well. 

It's not everyone's cup of tea, but the game does have a very dedicated following. It has been on the market for several years and is currently in development of a console tie in. 

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of the first and more successful MMO's developed by small groups of people and not backed by large corporations or funded by the same? Wasn't UO created by a small team?

 

So was saying that my post was devoid or empty of any meaning because i didn't specificaly mention that i am talking about sandbox MMOS on forums of Repopulation which is indeed a sandbox MMORPG on a  website called mmorpg.com. I am sorry but i have very low low tolerance levels for posters who try to get all cocky.

Anyways on topic...

In cases like this where you are trying to show success of particular genre it is best not to use an exception like EVE Online. It is one of its kind and not a 100% FFA PVP model either which gives a lot of breating room to different kind of players. So its appeal goes beyond the typical hardcore sandbox player.

How many other MMOS have seen success of EVE? EVE is backed up by a great company which has slowly build up EVE into what it is today.

Now if you can give me few more examples of similar success stories i would say iw as wrong that mostly indie sandbox MMOS do not just get by. I am not trying to put down devs of repopulation but lets look at the reality and long line of indie sandbox MMO releases. Picture is quite clear.

Moreover you are mis understanding my post because i never said indie small companies are not capable of making good games but times have changed now and players expect a lot of quality which sadly only comes with better funding. Days of UO's are gone, the same quality and production values do not work anymore. MMO corwd has become tougher and tougher to please over the years.

 

EVE Argument: 

However, I think that with your statement, the EVE  argument works very well for The Repopulation. 

 Originally posted by Whitebeards

It is one of its kind and not a 100% FFA PVP model either which gives a lot of breating room to different kind of players. So its appeal goes beyond the typical hardcore sandbox player.

 

The Repopulation will also not be a 100% FFA PVP model. It is marketed as a hybrid themepark/sandbox, in that the developers are pulling from the best of both worlds to make something unique. 

 Originally posted by Whitebeards

So its appeal goes beyond the typical hardcore sandbox player.

 

Success Argument:

A lot of the sandbox style MMO's are even more niche than EVE Online, but they do survive in their own way. A Tale in the Desert seems to be alive and kicking. Entropia Universe, still going.

Neither one of these games have been around as long as EVE Online. By your argument part of EVE's success is the length of time that EVE has had to develop it's player base. Couldn't the argument then be raised that perhase these games have not seen their peak?

 

Bigger Budget Argument:

Some of the big budget games that we have seen that are losing players, going free to play, or even closing. The tough to please MMO crowd that cheered these games on are now leaving them.

One could therefore put forward the argument that spending more money on an MMO does not gaurantee the success of the game. 

So really, the argument of budget could go both ways.

 

Conclusion:

I really don't see how the Repopulation could not be a success with the team that it has now, the goals it has set and the progress the game has already made.

In Alpha The Repopulation already has several game elements that other MMO's have promised, but still have not set into place. They give monthly reports on the progress of the game.

With much less funding, they have already done a lot more than many.

My main concearn is that the game will be fun to play. From what I can see it will be. To me, that is what counts because that is why I pay.

Originally posted by lizardbones

I don't think this really has anything to do with developing MMORPG, since developers aren't doing things randomly. I would think though, that if it was random you'd need an alternate universe where you have an infinite number of monkey developers to get the games you want.

 

Since most of us want so many different things, that argument really isn't far off base. Then each gamer would have their perfect MMO.

Originally posted by wowclones

http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Atrocitus

The OP is butt hurt from TOR and is trying to blow his steam off on Repopulation, look at his post history.

Originally posted by CreepProphet

The more the OP posted the more that became apparent. 

I can't say I'm angry though. We've all felt upset by a game before at sometime or another. Some people just get it out in different ways than others.

Skymaster123 was in the same boat as the OP. Now Skymaster123 is waiting out The Repopulation and looking forward to it.

Similar situation but two totally different viewpoints.

 

Yea... same boat... times two. I actually purchased two Collector's Editions for TOR... one for me and one for my wife.    And, we are both actually still playing. It's fun... for a themepark MMO. But, it'll never take the place of a sandbox MMO.

 

But, back to needless bashing... a little kindness and respect goes a long way. Someone hurts you... don't take it out on someone else. Give people... and game companies... the benefit of the doubt. Don't just bash away about a game that isn't even out yet. Geez.

 

I'm excited about The Repopulation. If it is enjoyable, I'll keep playing. If not, I'll look somewhere else. But, I'm not going to bash it either way. Again... a little kindness.

 

However... I have a feeling I will be playing and really enjoying it! Yea... 

To the OP: This game is not for you. It's a sandbox, where your character lives in a world rather than playing a video game. In a sandbox, the devs give us the tools, then we the community make our own fun. There is a big shift in fundamental design going on with MMORPGs back to its roots, which might just save this genre from imploding in on itself.

 

It's OK if you don't get it, it's not your fault. Devs have been shovelling this "themepark level treadmill or die" design down our throats for so long, it's all people understand anymore.

At this point, a small team developing a game may be our best chance for a game that steps away from the cookie cutter formula that is being used by companies seeking the "big bucks." ("our" being the group of people looking for something different in MMOs than what is currently flooding the market, before someone gets upset thinking the meaning of the word "we" or "our" includes everyone)

Will this game "succeed" or be a decent game? No clue, it's still in alpha so it's way to early to tell.

Will this game be bad due to a lack of quest? Depends on what you are looking for in a game.  Some of us will not be bothered by a lack of quest as long as there are ways to develop the character.  For some people, getting a group together and exploring the land killing random mobs they come across is much more fun than being dragged around by a set quest line.  For some people, a mix of killing random mobs and doing a quest line when they choose is preferred ( a combination of themepark/sandbox).

Will I play this game?  Don't know yet but I'll probably try it out at least until I reach my frustration point with cash shop or being flagged for pvp.

Do I hope this game makes it? YES! .... or at least some game very similar to it.  Although those of us who prefer the sandbox style game may not be a majority, if a sandbox game is successful then maybe some of the big companies will realize everything doesn't have to follow the same recipe in order to be successful (sort of like television shows where one show is a hit so a bunch of shows of the same genre or similar story line start popping up without even knowing exactly what it was that made the first show popular....or assuming that because a certain show didn't make it, then people must not like that genre without questioning what it was that caused that show to fail).

Well, your name is certainly indicative of your method of stating your opinion.

 

Also, you might want to do a little research before offering an argument that is easily shot down.

Originally posted by Atrocitus

First off, I am NOT, repeat, NOT in alpha/beta/whatever...Got it? In NO WAY HAVE I PLAYED THIS GAME YET......

 

I've seen plenty of videos of the game, listened to the 'devs' speak on the game, and have read plenty about it. Heres why this game will not only tank, but tank bigtime.....

 

Regardless of how long this 'team' of devs have been working on the game, content will be shallow. Its as simple as work force= gameplay. And they have an extremely small dev team. And we all know how fast gamers fly by content these days. There simply will not be enough to do

 

Customer service after launch will be relatively non existant. Again, with hardly any funding, how in the hell can they get a sizeable team to deal with the problems in and out of the game? And c'mon people, we all know how the first few weeks of a mmorpg go. People will be crying about tickets not being answered, bugs everywhere, blah blah blah........

 

The game engine is horribad. Any sizable pvp will end in massive vaporlock. Once again, the almost non existant team won't be able to handle this.

Have you seen the AI in the videos? The mobs just stand there. Period. Its comical.....

 

 

 

I could go on and on, but don't feel like typing any longer. Point of the matter is don't get your hopes up for this game. All signs points to sub par mmo. Once again, I have NOT participated in the game...

Basement Dwelling Developer Speculation is awesome

I know right?

Originally posted by Niburu

Originally posted by Atrocitus

Regardless of how long this 'team' of devs have been working on the game, content will be shallow. Its as simple as work force= gameplay. And they have an extremely small dev team. And we all know how fast gamers fly by content these days. There simply will not be enough to do

i see you never played a sandbox game. in sandbox games the interaction between players is the main content. Oh yeah and creating stuff so again players build the content.

 

 

 

This, and hi Niburu from Forumfall :)

 

Awesome answers, JC. I have faith in The Repop, it's one of my best bets when it comes to upcoming sandbox games.

Originally posted by Atrocitus

First off, I am NOT, repeat, NOT in alpha/beta/whatever...Got it? In NO WAY HAVE I PLAYED THIS GAME YET......

I've seen plenty of videos of the game, listened to the 'devs' speak on the game, and have read plenty about it. Heres why this game will not only tank, but tank bigtime.....

Regardless of how long this 'team' of devs have been working on the game, content will be shallow. Its as simple as work force= gameplay. And they have an extremely small dev team. And we all know how fast gamers fly by content these days. There simply will not be enough to do

Customer service after launch will be relatively non existant. Again, with hardly any funding, how in the hell can they get a sizeable team to deal with the problems in and out of the game? And c'mon people, we all know how the first few weeks of a mmorpg go. People will be crying about tickets not being answered, bugs everywhere, blah blah blah........

The game engine is horribad. Any sizable pvp will end in massive vaporlock. Once again, the almost non existant team won't be able to handle this.

Have you seen the AI in the videos? The mobs just stand there. Period. Its comical.....

I could go on and on, but don't feel like typing any longer. Point of the matter is don't get your hopes up for this game. All signs points to sub par mmo. Once again, I have NOT participated in the game...

HAHA perfect example of someone who has no idea at all... nice one OP ..

I guess you have based your opinion of the game engine on SW:TOR you do realise that is a very very early version of the hero engine that they brought and then butchered into their game LOL you cannot compare the current Hero Engine to that at all.

Workforce does not = gameplay that has to be one of the most stupid things i have ever read.

Customer service will probally be out sorced to a customer service company, will it be as amazing as the AAA companies that you have to stay on the phone for hours and hours just to get through to or wait weeks for a response via E-Mail? I expect it to be no worse or no better than AAA companies.

have i seen the early ALPHA footage with AI in.. yes thanks I have seen the early ALPHA footage :) You do know how a game is developed right? they dont just think of the game idea and all of a sudden it pops into the engine totally finished do you ?

 

OP you clearly have no idea..

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Quizzical

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Originally posted by CreepProphet A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

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That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

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The chance of a monkey typing the word, 'banana' is 1 in 15,625,000,000, assuming there are fifty keys on the typewriter (it's an old timey typewriter).

For monkeys to type out Hamlet before the end of the universe, the monkeys would have to be the size of atoms, they would have to fill the universe, the universe would have to be considerably bigger and they monkeys would have to be really fast typists.

It really only works if you have infinite monkeys, and they are in an alternate universe where there's an infinite amount of space.

I don't think this really has anything to do with developing MMORPG, since developers aren't doing things randomly. I would think though, that if it was random you'd need an alternate universe where you have an infinite number of monkey developers to get the games you want.

 

hmmm... so literal, let me translate =  A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there? = A million self entitled AAA developers may end up developing a gem of a game, but u do u know how much "themepark for add kiddos" they ll produce before they get there?

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Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

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Originally posted by lizardbones  

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Originally posted by Quizzical

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Originally posted by CreepProphet A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

---

That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

---

The chance of a monkey typing the word, 'banana' is 1 in 15,625,000,000, assuming there are fifty keys on the typewriter (it's an old timey typewriter). For monkeys to type out Hamlet before the end of the universe, the monkeys would have to be the size of atoms, they would have to fill the universe, the universe would have to be considerably bigger and they monkeys would have to be really fast typists. It really only works if you have infinite monkeys, and they are in an alternate universe where there's an infinite amount of space. I don't think this really has anything to do with developing MMORPG, since developers aren't doing things randomly. I would think though, that if it was random you'd need an alternate universe where you have an infinite number of monkey developers to get the games you want.  

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hmmm... so literal, let me translate =  A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there? = A million self entitled AAA developers may end up developing a gem of a game, but u do u know how much "themepark for add kiddos" they ll produce before they get there?

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The developers aren't spewing out random results. In your example, a million monkeys would produce a million sets of random ascii characters. If you had a million AAA developers, even self entitled ones, you'd have a million MMORPG to choose from. Each of the developers would be aware that there were a million other developers doing what they were doing, so they would try to differentiate themselves from the other developers. You would have a vast spectrum of MMORPG, MMOFPS, MMORTS and probably a bunch of things we haven't even conceptualized yet.

Your example is awful and you should stop trying to use analogies. If your point can't be made without an analogy, it's probably a bad point and shouldn't be made in the first place.

We have a very limited number of qualified developers, and the process of developing an MMORPG is a very resource intensive one. The money comes from people who will only give it to developers who have shown they can successfully develop games. The money people don't care about what kind of games get developed, only that the developers have shown that they can write games that people like. The publishers might have more interest in what kinds of games get developed, but they don't have any input until later in the process, so what they are concerned with is the games getting done on time and the developer not sitting in their chairs feature creeping their games into the grave. All of this means that not too many MMORPG are going to get released. Competition is going to be minimal compared to other types of games making progress and differentiation seems minimal compared to other types of games. There's nothing random about this at all.

** edit **
At the very least, you'd have a million MMORPG, not a million random sets of ascii characters.

Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Quizzical

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Originally posted by CreepProphet A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

---

That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

---

The chance of a monkey typing the word, 'banana' is 1 in 15,625,000,000, assuming there are fifty keys on the typewriter (it's an old timey typewriter).

For monkeys to type out Hamlet before the end of the universe, the monkeys would have to be the size of atoms, they would have to fill the universe, the universe would have to be considerably bigger and they monkeys would have to be really fast typists.

It really only works if you have infinite monkeys, and they are in an alternate universe where there's an infinite amount of space.

I don't think this really has anything to do with developing MMORPG, since developers aren't doing things randomly. I would think though, that if it was random you'd need an alternate universe where you have an infinite number of monkey developers to get the games you want.

 

hmmm... so literal, let me translate =  A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there? = A million self entitled AAA developers may end up developing a gem of a game, but u do u know how much "themepark for add kiddos" they ll produce before they get there?

Your analogy is awful so don't use them- PLEASE.

 

As another poster sated, MMO's are expensive to produce, how expensive is that Bot? Think 1-5 million minimum and 2-3 yrs minumum. I am basing this on what we have seen in the industry so far in the last 2 years. Independents will produce games, but they will be like Minecraft graphics (don't get me wrong, Minecraft is fun but the graphics get to me after a while). Games being produced with crowdfunding will only get so far, then they will need real money to come in and finish the process. You have to show these people that the game can make money.

 

In every industry, it is a numbers game.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Quizzical

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Originally posted by CreepProphet A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

---

That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

---

The chance of a monkey typing the word, 'banana' is 1 in 15,625,000,000, assuming there are fifty keys on the typewriter (it's an old timey typewriter).

For monkeys to type out Hamlet before the end of the universe, the monkeys would have to be the size of atoms, they would have to fill the universe, the universe would have to be considerably bigger and they monkeys would have to be really fast typists.

It really only works if you have infinite monkeys, and they are in an alternate universe where there's an infinite amount of space.

I don't think this really has anything to do with developing MMORPG, since developers aren't doing things randomly. I would think though, that if it was random you'd need an alternate universe where you have an infinite number of monkey developers to get the games you want.

 

hmmm... so literal, let me translate =  A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there? = A million self entitled AAA developers may end up developing a gem of a game, but u do u know how much "themepark for add kiddos" they ll produce before they get there?

Your analogy is awful so don't use them- PLEASE.

 

As another poster sated, MMO's are expensive to produce, how expensive is that Bot? Think 1-5 million minimum and 2-3 yrs minumum. I am basing this on what we have seen in the industry so far in the last 2 years. Independents will produce games, but they will be like Minecraft graphics (don't get me wrong, Minecraft is fun but the graphics get to me after a while). Games being produced with crowdfunding will only get so far, then they will need real money to come in and finish the process. You have to show these people that the game can make money.

 

In every industry, it is a numbers game.

 

I'm not sure how accurate that is. If you look at the Pre-Alpha footage for The Repopulation the graphics and mechanics were looking solid before the initial Kickstarter/crowdfunding event. 

I'm really looking forward to what they can do with the additional income. 

Originally posted by CreepProphet

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Quizzical

---

Originally posted by CreepProphet A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

---

That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

---

The chance of a monkey typing the word, 'banana' is 1 in 15,625,000,000, assuming there are fifty keys on the typewriter (it's an old timey typewriter).

For monkeys to type out Hamlet before the end of the universe, the monkeys would have to be the size of atoms, they would have to fill the universe, the universe would have to be considerably bigger and they monkeys would have to be really fast typists.

It really only works if you have infinite monkeys, and they are in an alternate universe where there's an infinite amount of space.

I don't think this really has anything to do with developing MMORPG, since developers aren't doing things randomly. I would think though, that if it was random you'd need an alternate universe where you have an infinite number of monkey developers to get the games you want.

 

hmmm... so literal, let me translate =  A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there? = A million self entitled AAA developers may end up developing a gem of a game, but u do u know how much "themepark for add kiddos" they ll produce before they get there?

Your analogy is awful so don't use them- PLEASE.

 

As another poster sated, MMO's are expensive to produce, how expensive is that Bot? Think 1-5 million minimum and 2-3 yrs minumum. I am basing this on what we have seen in the industry so far in the last 2 years. Independents will produce games, but they will be like Minecraft graphics (don't get me wrong, Minecraft is fun but the graphics get to me after a while). Games being produced with crowdfunding will only get so far, then they will need real money to come in and finish the process. You have to show these people that the game can make money.

 

In every industry, it is a numbers game.

 

I'm not sure how accurate that is. If you look at the Pre-Alpha footage for The Repopulation the graphics and mechanics were looking solid before the initial Kickstarter/crowdfunding event. 

I'm really looking forward to what they can do with the additional income. 

 

Pre-alpha footage was in Hero Engine 1, now that Hero Engine 2 is put in place, it looks loads prettier :)

Originally posted by Whitebeards

When devs of the game start telling other that they are trolls or trolling, you know it is not a good sign.. lol!

 

Thing is, the Dev is correct, I am amazed that a moderator has allowed it.

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Originally posted by shirlnt
At this point, a small team developing a game may be our best chance for a game that steps away from the cookie cutter formula that is being used by companies seeking the "big bucks." ("our" being the group of people looking for something different in MMOs than what is currently flooding the market, before someone gets upset thinking the meaning of the word "we" or "our" includes everyone)

Will this game "succeed" or be a decent game? No clue, it's still in alpha so it's way to early to tell.

Will this game be bad due to a lack of quest? Depends on what you are looking for in a game.  Some of us will not be bothered by a lack of quest as long as there are ways to develop the character.  For some people, getting a group together and exploring the land killing random mobs they come across is much more fun than being dragged around by a set quest line.  For some people, a mix of killing random mobs and doing a quest line when they choose is preferred ( a combination of themepark/sandbox).

Will I play this game?  Don't know yet but I'll probably try it out at least until I reach my frustration point with cash shop or being flagged for pvp.

Do I hope this game makes it? YES! .... or at least some game very similar to it.  Although those of us who prefer the sandbox style game may not be a majority, if a sandbox game is successful then maybe some of the big companies will realize everything doesn't have to follow the same recipe in order to be successful (sort of like television shows where one show is a hit so a bunch of shows of the same genre or similar story line start popping up without even knowing exactly what it was that made the first show popular....or assuming that because a certain show didn't make it, then people must not like that genre without questioning what it was that caused that show to fail).

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It is entirely possible for a small team to develop a fully functional game. A five man team from Hungary produced Perpetuum.

At this point, all they really need is a game that isn't a buggy mess.

Originally posted by MarlonB

 

Pre-alpha footage was in Hero Engine 1, now that Hero Engine 2 is put in place, it looks loads prettier :)

That's awesome.

People really need to stop speculating and comeing out with spurios crap and if they want the real information start by trawling through the Hero Engine site and the forums which garners more info about projects especially as most are in Alpha,and our devs are open and honest  and the community is always ready to help out a potential player on the official forums.

Also they will then understand the Hero Engine's mechanics and how it is a complete platform for devs to develop and since one Repop dev JC is in Thailand  then  the Engine becomes paramount to the game being made as the devs are not huddled in a shed in one place but spread across the globe,but Hero allows seemless communication and application of code on the fly which is pretty handy to say the least when codeing such a massive game as Repop.

And Marlon B,is quite correct I have Alpha tested a very early  sandbox Hero game Dominus,and was in awe with the scope of the enviroments if  I could see something in the distance I could actually get to it because that's how the game was coded,but unlike SWTOR they used the traditional running through a maze enviroment that eventually led out of the boxed in maze to get the bit of cheese at the other end pretty much Themepark and did not utilise the engines potential.

And lastly the graphics for Dominus which were very early alpha Hero 1,good as they were did not have the benefit of the new engine and as I have only seen pictures of Hero 2 can still not comment but as Repop as pretty much taken up the mantle of flagship game for Hero the pics on the Hero Engine 2 promo page look pretty darn good to say the least check out the 4 segmented pics here.

http://www.heroengine.com/2012/11/heroengine-2-empowers-indie-game-developers%E2%80%99-to-focus-on-creativity/

Originally posted by darker70

People really need to stop speculating and comeing out with spurios crap and if they want the real information start by trawling through the Hero Engine site and the forums which garners more info about projects especially as most are in Alpha,and our devs are open and honest  and the community is always ready to help out a potential player on the official forums.

Also they will then understand the Hero Engine's mechanics and how it is a complete platform for devs to develop and since one Repop dev JC is in Thailand  then  the Engine becomes paramount to the game being made as the devs are not huddled in a shed in one place but spread across the globe,but Hero allows seemless communication and application of code on the fly which is pretty handy to say the least when codeing such a massive game as Repop.

And Marlon B,is quite correct I have Alpha tested a very early  sandbox Hero game Dominus,and was in awe with the scope of the enviroments if  I could see something in the distance I could actually get to it because that's how the game was coded,but unlike SWTOR they used the traditional running through a maze enviroment that eventually led out of the boxed in maze to get the bit of cheese at the other end pretty much Themepark and did not utilise the engines potential.

And lastly the graphics for Dominus which were very early alpha Hero 1,good as they were did not have the benefit of the new engine and as I have only seen pictures of Hero 2 can still not comment but as Repop as pretty much taken up the mantle of flagship game for Hero the pics on the Hero Engine 2 promo page look pretty darn good to say the least check out the 4 segmented pics here.

http://www.heroengine.com/2012/11/heroengine-2-empowers-indie-game-developers%E2%80%99-to-focus-on-creativity/

I'm seeing Awesonium support in there as well, that's VERY interesting. I'm debating making a new thread just to highlight this article.