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The Repopulation Forum » General Discussion » i am worried--for this game

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69 posts found
  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3117

Veni, Vidi, Converti

12/13/12 4:53:58 PM#61

Looks like some interesting things in this game. They have an interesting quest generator iirc and faction influence also:

 

FEATURES

  • Nations | Player-built and owned cities complete with Walls, Turrets, Harveters, Workshops, Houses, and other structures.
  • Engagements | Common and randomly occurring events that change based on players’ response.
  • Skills | Over 100 Combat, Social, Rogue, Crafting, Medical and General skills with 15 advancement tiers in each.
  • Combat | Two combat modes: RPG Mode for traditional MMORPG feel, and Action Mode based on player skill.
  • 3-Faction PvP | Join and go to war with the One World, One Nation faction, the Free People’s Republic, or form your own independent Rogue Nation.
  darker70

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 820

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

12/13/12 7:08:31 PM#62

I'm not entirely sure if this is widely known but Hero engine is in transition to Hero Engine 2,Idea Fabrik are making a massive update so pretty much every Hero Game in development will move over to the new engine.

So this should finally kill off all the SWTOR  stigma once and for all.

http://www.heroengine.com/2012/11/heroengine-2-empowers-indie-game-developers%E2%80%99-to-focus-on-creativity/

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

12/13/12 7:16:37 PM#63
Originally posted by Karteli

I guess there is a well laid out plan for how the game will feel, which attracts people, like sandboxers.  The alpha videos were so-so, but it's still early to mid in development I suppose, so I'll wait and see.

 

On the Hero Engine, SWTOR had procured an unfinished version sometime early in the games development, thinking that coding an engine was a walk in the park - they would just fill in what was missing and make it work, within their unique specifications.  Well they bought what there was, then found out it wasn't so easy.  It was rumored also that the EA Bioware people who supported buying (and knew all about) the unsupported early version had left the company way before the game released ... but after Hero was paid.

 

The sad series of events was only known about because EA had to balls to say that the graphics engine couldn't be improved upon much because of limitations of the Hero engine.  To which (surprise surprise) Hero posted all the events and poor decisions by EA to clear their name.  So the blame fell back on EA.  The source for the SWTOR-Hero engine is so mutilated from the original, that Hero will not support it.

Bioware not EA Bioware bought the Hero Engine way before EA came along or before they jumped into bed with EA. The fault lies with the original Bioware team not EA, some people need to except the fact that BioWare are just as much to blame as EA are when it comes to swtor.

 

The Hero Engine is not a good engine for MMOs buttom line.

  darker70

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 820

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

12/13/12 7:30:30 PM#64
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by Karteli

I guess there is a well laid out plan for how the game will feel, which attracts people, like sandboxers.  The alpha videos were so-so, but it's still early to mid in development I suppose, so I'll wait and see.

 

On the Hero Engine, SWTOR had procured an unfinished version sometime early in the games development, thinking that coding an engine was a walk in the park - they would just fill in what was missing and make it work, within their unique specifications.  Well they bought what there was, then found out it wasn't so easy.  It was rumored also that the EA Bioware people who supported buying (and knew all about) the unsupported early version had left the company way before the game released ... but after Hero was paid.

 

The sad series of events was only known about because EA had to balls to say that the graphics engine couldn't be improved upon much because of limitations of the Hero engine.  To which (surprise surprise) Hero posted all the events and poor decisions by EA to clear their name.  So the blame fell back on EA.  The source for the SWTOR-Hero engine is so mutilated from the original, that Hero will not support it.

Bioware not EA Bioware bought the Hero Engine way before EA came along or before they jumped into bed with EA. The fault lies with the original Bioware team not EA, some peopld need to except the fact that BioWare are just as much to blame as EA are when it comes to swtor.

 

The Hero Engine is not a good engine for MMOs buttom line.

Err, you do realise that the engine was actually built ground up for a Mo in the first place but Heroes Journey was canned due to the publisher going under,but survived as it morphed into an all round engine for developers and quite a few assets from the game remain for devs to develop with.

So unless you have had experience with Hero and a game in development and as not many Mo's have yet hit full release as the engine is still young,you are making one hell of an assumption based on it seems hot air as the new engine is light years ahead of the one raped by Bioware.

 

  KaylettaJade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/06
Posts: 139

12/14/12 8:34:20 AM#65
Originally posted by Rimmersman

Bioware not EA Bioware bought the Hero Engine way before EA came along or before they jumped into bed with EA. The fault lies with the original Bioware team not EA, some people need to except the fact that BioWare are just as much to blame as EA are when it comes to swtor.

 

The Hero Engine is not a good engine for MMOs buttom line.

Hero Engine is great to work with. They're currently putting in HE2 and it's even better than the first.

I had my doubts about the whole HE thing and most of it was based off of TOR, but after working with the tools myself, I can tell you this HE/HB is designed for MMOs. It's designed to allow teams to work together in real time, which is huge for us. It's a great tool and people really need to back off of HE. It's not their fault SWTOR turned out as a steaming pile of crap.

JC has repeatedly explained why SWTOR has the problems that they have and why we won't be having the same issues. It's not HE, it's the chocies TORs development team made. Instead of linking, I'm copying the appropriate section from a post JC made on these forums:

"In the case of TOR, your talking about multiple texture styles per visual tier, per class and 8 classes. It offered some great variety and within the goals of their game it made sense. However, it can cause a struggle when dealing with PvP because your really pushing a ton of state changes and using a lot of memory on the video card. A PvP focused game wouldn't want that, as PvP players are generally going to turn down the options to make gameplay silky smooth. That's the balancing act that developers need to deal with. In the case of TOR they choose their parameters as it made the most sense for their game. For us, 15-20 tintable sets would make a lot more sense than 100, for example. And end user might look at WoW and at ToR and wonder why they can have more customization in WoW and it handles more players well. For them they blame the engine, but the reality is that TORs characters were FAR higher polygon wise, and used normal and specular map data and higher resolution textures. WIth the same texture, just adding normal/specular will more than double your texture usage. So this makes the hit on each texture much more harsh, and as users begin to fill their texture memory it makes it far more inefficient. In general the less texture or state changes you can get away with the better. Single player games always have an advantage here because they can develop content that is single model and single texture. In MMOs players can not be handled in that manner. That ensures that they can't be batch rendered efficiently. Developers have to make a compromise somewhere in between. How much customization is enough for what we're trying to accomplish. You can't blame the engine for decisions they make."

Full post can be found here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/371248/page/3

  Oldbugss

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 20

1/07/13 1:25:38 AM#66

Thanks Kayletta, that is a reassuring post and link!

I am still bruised by SWTOR lol.

 

  IG-88

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 130

1/07/13 2:04:47 AM#67

With all the heat Hero is taking from being associated with SWTOR, i bet they have mixed feelings selling it to EA....

 

It all goes to show, never sell an unfinished product, even if there is s a buyer.

 

  CreepProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 10/10/09
Posts: 104

A figment of your imagination.

1/07/13 6:22:47 AM#68
Originally posted by IG-88

With all the heat Hero is taking from being associated with SWTOR, i bet they have mixed feelings selling it to EA....

 

It all goes to show, never sell an unfinished product, even if there is s a buyer.

 

True, but I'm sure they were looking forward to using some funds to help continue building their engine. 

Fallen Earth was a game designed originally to sell an engine, so was Second Life. Every game engine has it's hiccups. Hero is just going to have to overcome this stigma and move on. Sadly with an unforgiving community, it'll take a few successful examples before opinions change. 

On the upside, that would mean having a few successful games to play so it's not all bad. 


Waiting on The Repopulation.

  wowclones

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 133

1/08/13 9:52:14 PM#69

How it went down:

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

for the lazy:

Hero’s Journey

Long ago in a company far far away, we were building a game called Hero’s Journey.  It was an ambitious game with many wonderful features.  We had our own special way of building games based on a unique process that we had developed while building pioneering online games like GemStone and DragonRealms.  Our goal was to build a modern graphical MMO RPG that allowed our team of designers to continually add new content into the game – new areas, new spells, whatever they could think of.

We took an early version of our game to the legendary 2005 E3 show.  We rented a small room in the back of a small hall, very far away from the giant multimedia extravaganza exhibits of EA, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and the rest of the empires.  We set up meetings with people we knew, members of the press, friends in the industry, and publishers.  We hoped to build enough interest to get a publisher to provide enough funding to expand the team and finish the game.

A few people got very excited, but not the way we planned.

 

“I NEED THIS.”

 

We showed the game to our friend Gordon Walton.  We had known Gordon for many years, back in the days when he worked for Kesmai, our late great competitor.  Gordon had since been with Sony for its Star Wars Galaxies game among other places.  He knows games, especially online games.

Not only did we show him the game, but because Gordon knew us so well we showed him the development tools we had built around our special process – building the game online, in realtime, with tools for the entire team all in one package.

“I need this,” said Gordon.  “I am about to start a special project and these tools will let us build and prototype fast and get something running in a hurry.”  Gordon is not an excitable guy by nature but this had his adrenaline flowing.  “This is just what I need!  I want to license your engine.”

We had thought about offering our engine and tools to developers but we had expected that we would have to actually ship a game first, like Epic did with Unreal Tournament before they licensed the original Unreal Engine.

“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon.  “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security.  And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

He didn’t care.  “We are going to have tons of engineers.  We can finish it ourselves.  We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”

BIOWARE LICENSES HEROENGINE FOR…

A few months after the show we heard from Gordon again.  He was now the co-head of a new online game studio in Austin as part of BioWare.  This was very impressive.  Not only was Gordon a solid guy but BioWare was (and still is!) at the very top tier of game developers, the kind of company that made games that were always great.  Soon the deal was done – soon meaning after months of painful negotiations and many weeks of meetings with teams of engineers who examined every line of our source code and interrogated our engineers.  We were concerned over their making major changes to our engine, but we loved the size of the check that came with the deal.

A year or so later, it became clear to us that BioWare was building a Star Wars MMO.  We had to keep the secret for another couple of years but it was incredibly exciting.  If you watch some of the videos of BioWare developing SW:TOR, you can see HeroEngine and its unique tools and process being used by the massive team on this incredible project.

Our role began and ended long ago, in a company far far away, but we’re still excited over the part we have played in helping BioWare (now part of EA, of course) bring its vision to life.

by Neil Harris, President and COO of HeroEngine

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