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Goblinworks | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Development  (est.rel N/A)  | Pub:Paizo Publishing
PVP:Yes | Distribution: | Retail Price:n/a | Monthly Fee:n/a
System Req: PC Mac | Out of date info? Let us know!

Pathfinder Online Videos: Ryan Dancey Talks Crafting And More (48:12)

MMORPG.com interviewing Ryan Dancey CEO of Goblinworks about Pathfinder Online. How's the game doing since the crowdforging goal was reached?

MMORPG.com interviewing Ryan Dancey CEO of Goblinworks about Pathfinder Online. How's the game doing since the crowdforging goal was reached?
Duration: 48:12
Views: 6,367  45 comments
Game: Pathfinder Online
Direct Link: http://youtu.be/2FYqcZ-4VLU
View More Pathfinder Online Videos...
Tamanous writes: Really keeping a close eye on this game. Driven partly from my love of old schoold D&D but also ... sandbox! Thu Jan 31 2013 8:58AM Report
tom_gore writes: Finally an MMORPG interview with decent audio quality :) Thu Jan 31 2013 8:59AM Report
Thorkune writes: It sounds like this game doesn't offer much for the anti-PvP crowd. I will keep an open mind, but this one dropped off of my radar. Thu Jan 31 2013 9:06AM Report
MumboJumbo writes:

Fairly broad scope of interview, but good general discussion. I like the lack of exclamation marks also in this more natural discussion.

@Thorkune: That's discussed at 14:30. If the economy is complex I guess there will activities where pvp is less emphsis eg hiring guards has been mentioned... but yes OpenWorld {pvp+pve} is the design.

Thu Jan 31 2013 9:55AM Report
Caldrin writes:

open pvp+pve is a must for a good game..

Thu Jan 31 2013 10:50AM Report
redrip writes: Sandbox MMO with PVP/PVE FTW! Nice one Rob, great interview! Thu Jan 31 2013 11:46AM Report
nathanknaack writes: Really looking forward to this, Ryan. Best of luck! Thu Jan 31 2013 12:47PM Report
VonTakala writes: After reading the hullabaloo about kickstart funding for Pathfinder and the game in general, I went and grabbed a bunch of the info and rules from the Pathfinder (Paizo?) website. It's looks really well-done, and the people developing the MMO look really serious about this, so I'm getting more and more excited about this game and am hoping it turns out well... :) Thu Jan 31 2013 1:23PM Report
krazeek writes:

If Mr. Dancey worked at CCP with Eve Online, perhaps he'd like to explain why roughly 70% of players spent most or all of their time in high-security space running missions and mining rocks. Eve was notorious for null-security residents not mining much if anything, and exporting materials from Jita mined by players in high-security space.

So now we get a game that sounds like it's 98% open-PvP with some esoteric law about 'don't be a jerk'. Mind you, I've participated in PvP in many games and have no problem with the activity, but his game seems to buck the trend needlessly and probably detrimentally.

I played DnD a lot as a child, and even still DM, so I'm interested in this project. As a crafting afficionado, I like the Eve-like effort in crafting. However, it seems like this game is his wet dream, and advice from the players and vets is checked against this pipedream.

I'm not saying that this game is gonna bomb or anything of the sort, but this is just an observation and word of warning from somebody who has played many MMOs (including 8.5 years of Eve Online). I wish him the best, but I have some major fears about the success of this game.

Thu Jan 31 2013 3:29PM Report
greenreen writes:

Well they turned me off saying hybrid. No micro transactions for me. Just because other games do it, it doesn't mean all of us like it.

Their IP has fans already though so they probably don't need wanderers like me.

Thu Jan 31 2013 3:54PM Report
maplestone writes:

Eve managed to attract some non-PvPers to play in it because it was so radically different than any other game out there (data rich, complex economy, interesting topology).  But ultimately, the security model presents non-PvPers with a glass ceiling where there are simply no paths of progression that don't bring them into the terriority or attention of PvPers.

Thu Jan 31 2013 3:54PM Report
chaintm writes: If they actually can pull this off without more panzi funding I would be shocked, to be honest I am very skeptical of this title ever seeing the light of day. No MMO team experiance equals bad deployment. Thu Jan 31 2013 4:19PM Report
Swiftrevoir writes: I really respect what they're doing with this game and how they are presenting it.  It will be entertaining watching the whole development process unfold.  I love EVE for both its positives and negatives(which are to some positives) and will be glad to see any similarities in the fantasy genre.  The devs are very public doing their best to present their game with professionalism as well which can't be said for a lot of its kickstarter competition in the MMO market.   Thu Jan 31 2013 4:58PM Report
rawfox writes:

Great stuff, let it grow :p

 

Thu Jan 31 2013 5:33PM Report
Vesavius writes:

Ugh... a PvP focus? That;s the core of their model here? Consider me done with it in all hoesty... it's just not the game I assumed it would be from the PnP RPG. Sure, players *can* kill players in the root game but it certainly is not the focus of the real Pathfinder.

 

PvP is just cheap filler content that encourages asshat communities. I don't want it in my game, let alone 'if I want it or not', as said here.

 

They need to be building this game so that PvE servers are viable from the start or it will cost them in terms of player numbers big time. If they do that then they will still get my dollar.

Thu Jan 31 2013 7:55PM Report
Nhoj1983 writes:

Vesavius writes: 

"Ugh... a PvP focus? That;s the core of their model here? Consider me done with it in all hoesty... it's just not the game I assumed it would be from the PnP RPG. Sure, players *can* kill players in the root game but it certainly is not the focus of the real Pathfinder.

PvP is just cheap filler content that encourages asshat communities. I don't want it in my game, let alone 'if I want it or not', as said here.

They need to be building this game so that PvE servers are viable from the start or it will cost them in terms of player numbers big time. If they do that then they will still get my dollar."

This is so not true.. pvp is a the other side of the pie.  I really could turn your statement around about pvp on pve.. but the truth is we need both.  The best games have all sorts of people in them.   The most civil society is a society that knows there's consequences to asshatery.. and trust me pve players can be just as bad as otherwise.  This is going to be a single server game.. there will be no "pve" servers.. or "pvp" servers for that matter there's only one. 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but this blanket statement is just.. bad.  You don't like pvp that's fine but pvpers can be the best of people as can a pve player.  Neither has a monoply on asshattery as you accuse us to have.  The type of game your talking about is the type that is very narrow in scope.. (the "real" game being pve with a side glance at pvp) and we have a gazillion of those.  They're trying to do something different.  That's a good thing even if it's not your cup of tea.

 

Thu Jan 31 2013 9:29PM Report
Khalathwyr writes:

@vesavius

There is no "pve servers". The game will have one front facing server that we all connect to, like Eve, that has many supporting servers behind it. This has been set in stone.

Additionally Goblinworks has had this pointed out to them (people wanting multiple and thus a pve server) however they are sticking on this point. They have stated they are not trying to make a game for everyone and are confident, from research, that the target market is significant to make a profittable game.

Thu Jan 31 2013 11:32PM Report
julienkage writes: I thought they said there would not be open pvp with looting and things? That is excatly what they said on their Facebook page when I brought it up. Thu Jan 31 2013 11:53PM Report
julienkage writes: LOL at PvPers not having a monopoly on asshattery. Yes, yes they do. You can be a dick in PvE too, but PVP gives you SO many more tools to do so. I predict PvPers will chase away players. Thu Jan 31 2013 11:57PM Report
BitterClinger writes: I'm glad I watched the video.  Thanks to MMORPG for the Interview.  I love the d20 rules and the Pathfinder pen and paper material. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to pass on this one, but I hope the game is a great success and does Pathfinder proud. Fri Feb 01 2013 12:15AM Report
jusomdude writes: Another developer that associates sandbox with open pvp, thanks, but no thanks. Fri Feb 01 2013 1:26AM Report
shantideva writes:

This all sounds very organic.. =)

To be honest i REALLY hope this game delivers. Sounds like the perfect online rpg.

Fri Feb 01 2013 3:37AM Report
Scot writes:

I wish we could have more of the format were guests talk about what’s in the MMO news area. Ryan Dancy is a man with the experience to talk about anything in the role-playing and MMO world.

Good to hear about Pathfinder, but half of the video on other MMO and role-playing issues would have been great. All else we got was a touch of CoH.

Fri Feb 01 2013 3:48AM Report
Vesavius writes:

Nhoj, I said a PvP focus *encourages* an asshat community, I did NOT say PvPers have the monopoly on being asshats and I made no accusations. I made no blanket statement, so it's maybe your comprehension that is bad.

 

'Needing both' is pure opinion on your part. I certainly do not need both in my MMORPG.

 

I will repeat that forced open world PvP is actually against the core focus of the PnP game and as such it has no part in a MMORPG using the Pathfinder brand. I feel that it is just being used as unimaginative cheap self renewing filler content. Them 'doing something new' would be bringing a great PvE sandbox to the market, because while there are current and near future games that offer PvP sandbox there is a distinct lack of titles that offer that.

 

I am dissapointed in this game and the design philosophy behind it right now, to say the least. This may change, who knows, we shall see.

Fri Feb 01 2013 5:50AM Report
Mischiff writes: is it just me or does the combat look really slow ?  just seemed like it took a long time between swings .. or the next action. Fri Feb 01 2013 6:15AM Report
Grakulen writes: @Scot I will be doing interviews with developers about 3 to 4 times a month. Bill and I will still be doing MMOFTW Live where we will have developers with us from time to time to talk about the industry. This has not replaced that. It is in addition to. Fri Feb 01 2013 6:27AM Report
Silverthorn8 writes:

I like the idea that hardcore crafters that don't want to risk getting ganked by players or maniac mobs can hire other players to deliver the goods. Or hire mercenary players to guard them whilst gathering.

It' "should" make for a better, closer knit community if the dangers of soloing are a bit more prohibitive.

From what I've seen in the few podcasts, it's only partial loot thats stealable, i.e whats in your backpack, not weapons and armour that are equipped....so your gathered materials will be plunderable.

Good reason to a) travel light and b) not to travel anywhere alone.

 

Fri Feb 01 2013 6:36AM Report
DancingQueen writes: I have big hopes on this game but 2015 seems so far away... Fri Feb 01 2013 8:28AM Report
leaf16nut writes:

@vesavius

 

There are already thousands of themepark MMOs that have no risk and are PVE focused, why don't you go play one of those instead complaining about a "sandbox" game having PVP...

 

I respect your opinion, but what's the point giving it on a video about a sandbox MMO? If you cant handle risk and the potential to get killed and lose everything, this genre clearly isn't for you...

Fri Feb 01 2013 1:36PM Report
rsdancey writes:

Hi Everyone!

Thanks for watching the interview, it was a blast to do!  Please let me know if you have any questions I can answer.

Fri Feb 01 2013 3:46PM Report
wes2les writes:

@chaintm

It seems like a few people have this thought. Even though as a company they do not have any released MMO, most (if not all) of the people working on the game have previous experience from MMOs, TCGs, and PnP. It's hard to say they are inexperienced.

Fri Feb 01 2013 5:35PM Report
Raventree writes: There are a lot of really good ideas floating around at Goblinworks.  I had some ideas of what might be important things to consider and during the course of the interview discovered that they are already doing all of those things.  I think getting player input on some of the systems and decisions is a very good idea since a lot of MMOs come out with decisions that don't seem to make sense and cause a lot of player rage.  This game is a long way off yet, but it will be interesting to see if they can actually deliver on what they are hoping to do. Fri Feb 01 2013 7:06PM Report
BlueMountain writes: It isn't so much PvP focused as it is meaningful player interaction focused. Yes They are going to try and harness the PvP community by focusing that creative energy into a warfare model but that is the primary focus of the PvP end. It is largely about adventuring and crafting. PvP infiltrates there if a teamster is hauling crafting resources cross country to your settlement he will be well advised to have hired some players as guards because other players can play bandit if he isn't defended. Puts money in the guard's pockets and that goes into the game economy. If the bandits pop out of hiding and they have the strength to overcome the guards they can just say 'stand and deliver'. Then the teamster can chose to comply and hand over part of his goods or he and his guards can decide to fight. The guards might even tell him to run for it with the wagon and they'll run a holding action to let him get away. It might turn out to be win-win with a new kind of PvP experience than the old gankfest. It might also give a whole new type of RP for the RP crowd. I thinkit has alot of potential if they can pull it off, and they have a great resource in Paizo. Fri Feb 01 2013 9:50PM Report
BlueMountain writes: ...as for 'doing something new' did you not hear that part of RDancy's interview when he mentioned wanting to let players build PvE dungeons and encounters that could then be used in the game like skyrim mod dungeons... and share the profits with the authors? I mean there is a bunch of talent out here just waiting for a chance to actually make money by building PvE mod for a game that could really use it. Fri Feb 01 2013 9:58PM Report
Nemesis7884 writes: the only thing im concerned about is the non-action-combat system, i just hope this gets enough engaging and exciting...others than that, all sounds really interesting, especially since im not such a graphics nut Sun Feb 03 2013 3:44AM Report
Vesavius writes:

@leafnut... which is why I said a *sandbox* PvE game would be offering something new, so what would going and playing a themepark like you suggest achieve for me in this regard?

 

I think there is a contuing lack of comprehension in what I am saying in this thread... people seem to be responding to what they want me to be saying rather then what I am saying. I am mainly talking about how open world PvP is not at all in the spirit of the PnP game and using it just looks like lazy filler content and offers nothing new. The market already has PvP sandboxes, and will have more by the time this gets here. What we lack is a quality PvE sandbox, a model that would suit this IP far better then forced open world PvP. It is just a really dissapointing direction for this game to take for me as it obviously is not the focus of PnP Pathfinder at all and captures nothing of the spirit of that game (In fact, I am starting to wonder how much this game will have to do with the PnP game past a skin of lore and a brand to trade on...)

 

Whats the point of giving my view on the direction of the game under a video about the direction of the game? Well... I will leave that one for you to have a think about and figure out...

Sun Feb 03 2013 5:52AM Report
Vesavius writes: My question to Ryan Dancey would be do you actually play the tabletop game? Do you often encourage your players in it to PvP? How often do your players fight each other on average if so? Sun Feb 03 2013 7:53AM Report
Nemesis7884 writes: a sandbox game without pvp will not, will NEVER work, how could it? the only way a sandbox game could work woutht pvp is basically if the players could have the development tools to create their own adventures that are as good as what the devs could make...and i am really doubting we are there yet...even if the said they want something like that...lets face it, most sandbox players want pvp - and they way the implement it is very fair Sun Feb 03 2013 8:42AM Report
Vesavius writes:

Nemesis... How can it? Well, sandbox PvE games *have* been proven to work, you are just not thinking wide enough. The creator communities out there are vast and largely untapped when it comes to MMORPGs; just look at something like the longeivity of Black Isle's NWN for a small example, or MInecraft for a bigger more recent one. Of course 'we are there'... As someone who has seen what the best of the CoH mission builder managed to produce I have played through some awesome player created content. In fact, the new Cryptic NW game builds on that very thing.

 

You probably can't imagine sandbox PvE because you have probably never experienced it, I don't know, but speaking as someone who has played these games for a long time (including such titles as the literal sandbox ATitD, which didn't even have any combat at all) I have seen sandbox PvE in both single player games and MMORPGs and understand fully how it is not only possible but can be fun and rewarding (and great for building a quality community).

 

Falling back on the same old PvP as cheap filler content, with all the inevitable baggage it brings, is a sure way to drive this title into the extreme niche community. Jake Song of Archeage understands this, which is why he talks of alternate ruleset servers. Maybe Goblinworks are content with a tiny playerbase, and that's their call ofc, but I was just hoping for something more. I was just hoping that a game based on a principally PvE sand box PnP RPG would have carried that spirit across and not forced PvP on it's players 'whether they like it or not'.

 

 

Sun Feb 03 2013 10:39AM Report
winter writes:

 First let me say i was a crowdforger for this game at the $100 mark, Kinda sad now as i had no idea Pathfinders goal was to be Darkfall 2.0. (Its the risks of kickstarting)

   Seriously the only thing I heard in this interview that Pathfinder is doing differently then Darkfall is having experience over time (ala EvE) Darkfall of course being a 2 year old game that got a few hundred K subscribers at its height and now has lerss then 5K 2 years after release and is being remade due to some serious flaws its developers decided it had.

   Anyone looking for this kinda of open PVP game DFUW is in beta and should be out this year no reason to wait on Pathfinder.

   As for PVP'ers being asshats. lets just say there is more asshatery that goes on in Eve in one week then in most other non-pvp MMO's in a year. In fact being a Asshat is pretty much glorified in EvE. The big name players are those that conned, schemed, and swindled other players/corperations out of the most ISK / ships etc. This is fine if thats what your looking for in a game. Eve even takes it one step further though in that if your not happy just tormenting other players in game and ruining thei game experience you can go to CCP's game conventions and publically rally other players to torment a player till they hopefully commit suicide in real life.

   This IMO is crossing the line I don't play games to cause or recieve that amount of torment or asshatery. If I want my newbie level 1 character to be ganked by a lvl 20 the minute i set foot out of the starter town I can play Darkfall or libneage 2. I don't need Pathfinder for that, and while I wish them well I don't see that they will come up with any miracle solution to the ganking PVP'er mindset thats all to prevalent in most open PVP games.

   For what its worth i have played EvE, and Shadowbane had some funb and met some decent people, as well as the normal varety that drops cans and podkills pilots in the newbie tutorial areas.

  However when i played PnP D&D it was about a group working together to overcome great odds, not about a few indiviguals  grouped together till one gets a advantage or another is weak enough that you can gank them for their stuff.

 

Mon Feb 04 2013 8:07PM Report
Plageron writes:

so basicaly....it will be a game with people who camp specifc places to kill other players all the time...

Most likely will have higher level players killing lower level players alot....

That sounds kind of....no point to bother playing....

But maybe there will be something else there...and not this sort of bahavior...kind of doubt it considering how other open world pvp games turn out....but go figure

 

Thu Feb 07 2013 4:58PM Report
EWilliams writes:

 

If an MMO allows open world PVP it will only ever be a PVP game.  Why?   Because you are forcing all players to adhere to that playstyle in order to survive. 

They really need to reconsider this. 

If you sit in chat on either EVE or Mortal Online, players are turned away in droves because of the implicit griefing that occurs in all FFAPVP games.  Players that would otherwise subscribe.

Companies need to stop using UO as their PVP model.  It's a 15 year old game!  The internet was a very different place back then, and UO was the only thing in town!

PVP is a niche market for kids and weirdos.  Stop making niche MMOs!

 

Thu Feb 07 2013 7:03PM Report
MumboJumbo writes:

@Vesavius

One of the key reasons pvp is a popular choice in sandbox is as a sink to the economy. It provides Conflict which leads to goals and a reason for players to get ""passionate"". (exaggerrated " marks!)

Secondly: Combat as a form of challenge is a very good system as seen in countless games. Whether you prefer pve combat or pvp combat is up to the individual, but there will be both and the roles that pve mobs do in pve games eg bandits, quest givers, traders, notable people, and more will be HUMAN as much as possible. Finally the benefits of pvp in combat is an intelligent opposition who may be talked to or combatted against or traded with or during combat come up with more diverse reactions to your offence.

The problem with pvp is of course if it is FFA pvp and it's not contextual or consequential ie costly to engage in if inappropriate. That is something significantly highlighted as a core game design from Goblin Works. Open World pvp does not mean it will end up the same as FFA pvp games, though it does mean it notice has to be taken of where these went extremely pvp. Secondly pvp imo has more potential and is less expensive than crafting eg dyamic event systems that are still overly finite RPG-quest systems. That's another angle that a modestly funded (by comparison to other AAA themepark mmorpgs) developer has to size up. Someone elsewhere mentioned that Minecraft is not pvp but there would be pvp (conflict as well as combat) if enough players were dumped in a world with finite resources: In fact PC Gamer did an article about this once and several groups emerging and hording minerals; an interesting experiment!

Mon Feb 11 2013 4:19AM Report
MumboJumbo writes:

Edit: Links:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/08/21/minecraft-experiment-devolves-into-devastating-resource-war/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/12/ten-year-game-of-civ-2-results-in-hellish-nightmare-planet-permanent-nuclear-war/

Mon Feb 11 2013 4:24AM Report
MumboJumbo writes: The Minecraft eg might have been a hoax, but atst, with finite resources, and a "competition to struggle" and a "he who strikes first and strikes hard enough", there's definitely an economic, rise and fall of civilizations/groups and evolutionary tale in there somewhere... Mon Feb 11 2013 4:27AM Report