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Pathfinder Online Forum » General Discussion » tab-combat or action combat?

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78 posts found
  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

1/22/13 3:27:25 AM#61
As long as there is an option for player faction based PvP with territory control I don't give a shit if it's tab target or action combat.
  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

1/22/13 3:50:19 AM#62
Originally posted by tom_gore
As long as there is an option for player faction based PvP with territory control I don't give a shit if it's tab target or action combat.

true true..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 773

1/27/13 2:02:18 AM#63
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

they die less fast...look at mmos released with traditional tab target combat, theyre not making it half a year (secret world for example)

i truly believe, to stay alive as an mmo nowadays you need to be

a) niche, which comes also from b and c,

b) sandbox

c) interesting combat mechanics - therefore no tab target combat

Lol he said Secret World which is doing just fine, funny how people think a game fails because it doesn't have 50 million subs, who cares they are making a ton of money and they are up 400% on people playing now. So again what is wrong with Tab target? I for one do not like it, unless itd done right and the game has intersting features which I think PathFinder does, but that is not why a game fails.

 

Also games do not fail because players say so, the fail if they do not make money, gamers  / people today make me laugh !!

  tatertoad

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 14

PO TA TOES

1/31/13 8:28:18 PM#64

I don't care what sort of combat it has, as long as it has meaningful player interaction, player interdependency (see: not soloable all the time) and settlement/area warfare.

  Celusios

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 349

2/01/13 4:41:43 AM#65
Well glad this was clarified. Definitely taking this off my watch list. Tab targeting is skill-less in my opinion. Anyone can pick it up and do good. I like games where not only does your weaponry come into account but your skill. Nothing beats it.
  GoodAfternoon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/08
Posts: 251

2/01/13 4:45:29 AM#66
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

they die less fast...look at mmos released with traditional tab target combat, theyre not making it half a year (secret world for example)

i truly believe, to stay alive as an mmo nowadays you need to be

a) niche, which comes also from b and c,

b) sandbox

c) interesting combat mechanics - therefore no tab target combat

Compare TERA to Rift. 

Rift can't be called a failure, however TERA can. 

 

A- I dunno about that, EVE is kinda the only one that comes to mind.

B-Again how's Darkfall and Mortal Online doing?

C-See TERA, combat doesnt keep people around. 

Rift

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2193

2/01/13 4:51:39 AM#67
Originally posted by GoodAfternoon
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

they die less fast...look at mmos released with traditional tab target combat, theyre not making it half a year (secret world for example)

i truly believe, to stay alive as an mmo nowadays you need to be

a) niche, which comes also from b and c,

b) sandbox

c) interesting combat mechanics - therefore no tab target combat

Compare TERA to Rift. 

Rift can't be called a failure, however TERA can. 

 

A- I dunno about that, EVE is kinda the only one that comes to mind.

B-Again how's Darkfall and Mortal Online doing?

C-See TERA, combat doesnt keep people around. 

 Actually it does, TERA started niche and then the poor rate at which content was developed caused a lot of people to leave due to having literally nothing to do at all, when youre title is small to begin(releasing with 11 servers, which was still too many) and then you fail to provide content and you're a typical themepark, you're going to have population problems no matter how good your combat is.

 

But the people who still are sticking around and still playing are only playing because they can't get over the combat and play other games. Myself included.

 

On your point about Darkfall and Mortal...those are buggy, poorly developed, horribly managed messes. The combat/sandbox elements have nothing to do with why those are failing, it's the only reason they are still alive. The same goes for TERA, without it's combat it would be shutdown before it even came out due to failing in Korea. Games that develop action combat or sandbox style gameplay seem to always do everything else wrong.

 

Heres hoping Black Desert can change that, stunning visuals, action combat, sandbox, AAA budget.

  wes2les

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 5

2/01/13 5:12:23 PM#68
Originally posted by Celusios
Well glad this was clarified. Definitely taking this off my watch list. Tab targeting is skill-less in my opinion. Anyone can pick it up and do good. I like games where not only does your weaponry come into account but your skill. Nothing beats it.

With how the game is coming out, I actually prefer it being based on "character" skill and player strategy rather than "player" skill and their twitch speed.

It's pretty stupid when someone's character who is essentially stronger than another loses to the weaker character just because the other player is better. Also, I don't see what's wrong with anyone being able to be good at it. If it was the case where the highest skilled players (rather than characters) dominated, it would no doubt scare away some people.

I like some games to be player skill-based. This game, however, is not one of them.

  BlueMountain

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 114

Lo, the mighty Oak.

Just a little nut who stood his ground.

2/01/13 9:33:02 PM#69

They haven't even built the combat syste beyond the bare bones. I have looked at everything listened to all the intrviews and there still isnt enough information on how the combat system will work yet folks here are say 'aw I've lost all interest becaue its tab targetting and a few paragraphs later someone else is say aw, I'm giving up on this because it isn't tab targetting. 

The only thing I've heard definitively is that the player will have to manage their stamina effectively.

That says nothing positive or negative about tab targetting. It talks about stamina management which is a twist already.

To dream, perhaps to be.

  BlueMountain

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 114

Lo, the mighty Oak.

Just a little nut who stood his ground.

2/01/13 9:36:21 PM#70
Originally posted by tatertoad

I don't care what sort of combat it has, as long as it has meaningful player interaction, player interdependency (see: not soloable all the time) and settlement/area warfare.

From what I've read soloing will be rare. The devs were warning someone asking about soloability and they said 'don't do that you will die'.

Personally I'd like there to be some solo content outside of crafting, but it doesn't sound like I'll get much of that.

To dream, perhaps to be.

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4155

2/04/13 6:26:10 AM#71
Originally posted by GoodAfternoon
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

they die less fast...look at mmos released with traditional tab target combat, theyre not making it half a year (secret world for example)

i truly believe, to stay alive as an mmo nowadays you need to be

a) niche, which comes also from b and c,

b) sandbox

c) interesting combat mechanics - therefore no tab target combat

Compare TERA to Rift. 

Rift can't be called a failure, however TERA can. 

 

A- I dunno about that, EVE is kinda the only one that comes to mind.

B-Again how's Darkfall and Mortal Online doing?

C-See TERA, combat doesnt keep people around. 

 

DF and MO are closer to FPSMMOs like Defiance than they are to MMORPGs and I think that is the problem.  Some people want an action game where you combine console shooter with RPG where your twitch-skills determine your success. That's fine and can be fun at times, but for Pathfinder I am hoping that they stick to the core of their tabletop RPG where your CHARACTER's skills determine success or failure.

 

 

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  User Deleted
2/06/13 10:18:40 PM#72
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by GoodAfternoon
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

they die less fast...look at mmos released with traditional tab target combat, theyre not making it half a year (secret world for example)

i truly believe, to stay alive as an mmo nowadays you need to be

a) niche, which comes also from b and c,

b) sandbox

c) interesting combat mechanics - therefore no tab target combat

Compare TERA to Rift. 

Rift can't be called a failure, however TERA can. 

 

A- I dunno about that, EVE is kinda the only one that comes to mind.

B-Again how's Darkfall and Mortal Online doing?

C-See TERA, combat doesnt keep people around. 

 

DF and MO are closer to FPSMMOs like Defiance than they are to MMORPGs and I think that is the problem.  Some people want an action game where you combine console shooter with RPG where your twitch-skills determine your success. That's fine and can be fun at times, but for Pathfinder I am hoping that they stick to the core of their tabletop RPG where your CHARACTER's skills determine success or failure.

 

 

If tera had a shred of substance to its looks and combat the game would be far more popular.

People get sick of the quest hub grind, followed by a few dungeons and one battleground at endgame.

I find the action based combat is a bit more engaging and entertaining, dont really mind tab target..just that system boils down to running the right skill sequence macro.  Once you get your skill rotation its pretty much a boring event to encounter player or mob in combat.  Dont mind that kind of combat if the games good and theres a lot of complexity to the skill system, character development, and gear however.

  Amsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 69

2/23/13 1:36:00 AM#73

From everything Ive read so far, Id say Tab-targeting is pretty likely. Action and twitchy combat is definately out, wich seems to support tab-targeting. Though I suppose it could be some wierd form of true or autotargeting mixed with a slower combat without active blocks and dodges and what not. But that sounds like it would be weird, Imagine playing WoW with everything exaxtly the same but you used true targeting. Better yet, Imagine combat as slow as FFXI yet with true targeting........ this sounds strange, non-traditional, out-of-sync, and unlikely to me.

 

Other than an extreme likely-hood of tab targeting, the devs desire for a non-actiony/twitchy appraoch and the stamina thing, we dont know a whole lot. We did recently find out that friendly fire was still up in the air though from AoE skills. And we do know that large-scale battles are going to be done in unit formations which will be stronger than individuals not using them, for the purpose of stopping zerging as a good option. So its possible large-scale combat might play sort of like a strategy simulator? IDK for sure its sort of hard to picture what the devs have in mind. Also we arent even sure if there will or will not be auto-attack.

 

The only other bit of information I know is that they do hope to make a more cerebral and tactical experience. What does this mean? Who freaking knows. BUT what I hope it means is complex tab-target battle that is some awesome combination of chess meets standard MMO, which require reason and situation to determine the use of an action, and not the GCD hell, or twitch based reaction. Maybe something complex like the use of an ability requiring that situation, distance, direction, element type, weapon type, terrain, and stamina all being taken into consideration before you attack or risk failed or unsatisfactory results?

  MumboJumbo

Elite Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3177

Veni, Vidi, Converti

2/23/13 3:49:37 PM#74
Originally posted by Amsai

From everything Ive read so far, Id say Tab-targeting is pretty likely. Action and twitchy combat is definately out, wich seems to support tab-targeting. Though I suppose it could be some wierd form of true or autotargeting mixed with a slower combat without active blocks and dodges and what not. But that sounds like it would be weird, Imagine playing WoW with everything exaxtly the same but you used true targeting. Better yet, Imagine combat as slow as FFXI yet with true targeting........ this sounds strange, non-traditional, out-of-sync, and unlikely to me.

 

Other than an extreme likely-hood of tab targeting, the devs desire for a non-actiony/twitchy appraoch and the stamina thing, we dont know a whole lot. We did recently find out that friendly fire was still up in the air though from AoE skills. And we do know that large-scale battles are going to be done in unit formations which will be stronger than individuals not using them, for the purpose of stopping zerging as a good option. So its possible large-scale combat might play sort of like a strategy simulator? IDK for sure its sort of hard to picture what the devs have in mind. Also we arent even sure if there will or will not be auto-attack.

 

The only other bit of information I know is that they do hope to make a more cerebral and tactical experience. What does this mean? Who freaking knows. BUT what I hope it means is complex tab-target battle that is some awesome combination of chess meets standard MMO, which require reason and situation to determine the use of an action, and not the GCD hell, or twitch based reaction. Maybe something complex like the use of an ability requiring that situation, distance, direction, element type, weapon type, terrain, and stamina all being taken into consideration before you attack or risk failed or unsatisfactory results?

This is a very good post. FYI, they are still hiring for certain positions eg "combat programmer" ;)

Yeah, tab-target is highly likely. I'm sure we'll begin to get more details nearer the "Pit-Fighter" release at the back-end of 2013. :)

 Announcing Pathfinder Online: Pit Fight!

From the beginning, Goblinworks has been working to get our fans involved in the process of developing Pathfinder Online as early as possible so we can live up to the Pathfinder tradition of player involvement in the development process. 

In the fall of 2013 we'll be releasing a combat testing tool called Pit Fight!

Our players can help us get a much wider range of combat data while getting a preview of combat in Pathfinder Online. Pit Fight will be a stand-alone, single-player experience.  

Pit Fight will put the player through a number of gladiatorial battles, fought in the newly constructed Bonepit Arena in Thornkeep. Players will be able to get a sneak preview of our combat design and help us shape its development through PvE conflict against various NPC opponents. Initially, players will be using a limited number of prebuilt characters beginning with Fighters but expanding over time to involve other classes, combat styles, etc.  Players will be able to try a handful of scenarios we specifically want to test, but over time we’ll add more characters, more customization, and more scenarios. Players will be able to see what aspects of combat they most enjoy and plan their advancement path once Pathfinder Online launches.

We plan to release Pit Fight in Fall  2013.  We are finalizing the platforms we can support but we anticipate the baseline will be a Unity Web App.

  wiseman00

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/12
Posts: 15

12/27/13 7:28:54 PM#75

Well TERA is doing amazing these days. Servers stay maxed and they're doing so well they're expanding again.  That game is exactly how they promoted it, it's just the slow content updates early on had people confused. Gets updates faster these days though. JS

I will admit that  Action-Twitch based combat feels more engaging, but I think fast Tab-targetting games like ArcheAge blur the lines a bit. The combat in that game has sped up so much since early beta that it looks like pure action madness at times.

 

  MumboJumbo

Elite Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3177

Veni, Vidi, Converti

12/28/13 7:24:47 AM#76
Originally posted by wiseman00

Well TERA is doing amazing these days. Servers stay maxed and they're doing so well they're expanding again.  That game is exactly how they promoted it, it's just the slow content updates early on had people confused. Gets updates faster these days though. JS

I will admit that  Action-Twitch based combat feels more engaging, but I think fast Tab-targetting games like ArcheAge blur the lines a bit. The combat in that game has sped up so much since early beta that it looks like pure action madness at times.

 

Tbh, I know this meanders off-topic from combat discussion, but I really really hope PFO skill-training embraces a plethora of a multitude of different so-called "skill" as much as non-combat, indirect-non-combat and combat and more.

If PFO does this, I'll probably not be too judgemental on the combat being tab-target - though I'd hedge by saying the combat for random small groups still needs to be tactical and slow and CEREBRAL. If you forfeit actiony-adrenaline-hit gameplay then the former is a preferrable drug. No drug is no good for the gameplay "addiction" that players need from a great game.

I'm not really sure about tera, it looks like a FPS experience. I prefer the look of firefall and disappointed firefall did not turn out so well yet. I still think if you like mmorpg games you're in it for the character as much as the mechanics of combat. Interested to see what The Repopulation and Camelot Unchained combats turn out like as well.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1567

12/28/13 7:58:07 AM#77
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

gw2 is in my opinion also tab target combat, just packaged in a more interesting way...but it still gets old, fast

Yes GW2 is a semi Tab Targeting system like ESO, these are not action combat systems.

besides, as said, i think tera did the combat right, but everything else wrong...besides, theyre not doing so bad, last i heard they had over 1m subscribers worldwide mid this year

Tera was very close to an action targeting system more so than GW2/ESO

i mean, just look at a game like mount & blade, how much success it has altough pretty much everything speaks against it - no story, crappy graphics, hardly any features - why is that, why does it have so many follow ups? cause the combat is just damn great (and m&b's combat isnt even done that well cause its pretty clunky and unresponsive)

Mount and blade does have a great combat system but it's not an mmo.

regarding archeage, i have a friend who was in beta 4 and 5, i played a little, i can tell you a few things

I don't believe that you have actually played the game, yes it does have classic tab targeting but it also has something that all these so called action combat system don't have, collision detection 

- the combat system is very very classic tab targeting - aka world of warcraft style

This makes the combat a bit more than your standard tab targeting system, spells don't go through walls, you can use objects in the world and you have to use positioning while in PVP, are you sure you have played the game lol?

- the skill system is interesting as it lets you choose several decks (3) to select skills from, so its somewhat open

Again you fail to mention that you can wear any armour and use any weapon plus you have over 120 class combination, ESO and your EQN can't even come close.

 

 

Talking about your beloved EQN, it hasn't been confirmed whether it will be tab targeting or semi action, i think you won't be playing that game once you realize it's not a full action combat system.

Don't expect Darkfall or Mount & Blade combat for your EQN.

TCOS had a great system, true action combat imo, see vid.

Black Desert looks to have a true action combat system.

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  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 834

1/11/14 5:22:00 PM#78
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by GoodAfternoon
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

they die less fast...look at mmos released with traditional tab target combat, theyre not making it half a year (secret world for example)

i truly believe, to stay alive as an mmo nowadays you need to be

a) niche, which comes also from b and c,

b) sandbox

c) interesting combat mechanics - therefore no tab target combat

Compare TERA to Rift. 

Rift can't be called a failure, however TERA can. 

 

A- I dunno about that, EVE is kinda the only one that comes to mind.

B-Again how's Darkfall and Mortal Online doing?

C-See TERA, combat doesnt keep people around. 

 

DF and MO are closer to FPSMMOs like Defiance than they are to MMORPGs and I think that is the problem.  Some people want an action game where you combine console shooter with RPG where your twitch-skills determine your success. That's fine and can be fun at times, but for Pathfinder I am hoping that they stick to the core of their tabletop RPG where your CHARACTER's skills determine success or failure.

 

 

Have to agree here and hope the same thing, I am getting tired of the "action combat" fad.  Way I see it a true mmoRPG should be tab targeting as it is IMHO the evolution of a menu based rpg like the first Final Fantasy and "action combat" mmo are more the evolution of Zelda like games.

 

Seriously there should be two categories, Instead of mmorpg and lumping a whole lot of games that really don't apply into this category they should fine tune it. For example back in the day you had RPGs and "action RPGs" sometimes there was even debates on whether it was an "action rpg" or an adventure game.

 

I think the term "mmorpg" needs to evolve into several different terms.

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