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Wizardry Online Forum » General Discussion » Concerns about forced PK - Griefers heaven

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66 posts found
  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 6:04:10 AM#1

So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why?

Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible!

I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

11/27/12 6:20:02 AM#2
Originally posted by Drakaden

So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why?

Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible!

I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.

A PK racks up at least 8 hours of IN GAME time of criminal status per kill. That status affects all characters on that particular soul (each account has 2 souls), not just the one character. As a red, he has limited access to quests which are a major source of XP and gold. He has to sneak around town to avoid getting guard whacked or attacked by white players... or other red players. 

There really isn't a reason for many people to waste time killing newbies. Yes, there are those that will want to do it for fun and No, they won't last very long.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 6:32:48 AM#3

PKers have the least to lose from such practice, they just exchange their loot with an alt or a partner-in-crime and go stash their stuff safely unbothered by anything, they most of the time always have the upper hand when it comes to attacking, they do -just- that, they don't care about the monsters or the chests or whatever, yer busy doing that, you give them the instant advantage over you, and unlike those PKers that got nothing to lose, the people that tries to progress have everything to lose, they carry their stashes of the huntings and quests and they can die.

And don't go thinking those Pkers are always going solo, you would heavily underestimate them, the concern here is that this will scare away a good amount of potential players, because they will -hate- those griefers, it's just something they need to adjust in their game, a Pve only server and a PvP only server, or the option to go open PK instead of being forced to, right now, this game won't live well long-term, because it's alienating a large portion of players: Soloers, PvP hater players, new players trying to progress but struggling, those 3 categories already narrow a very large portion.

People will just quit if they see their things always disrupted by griefers, and that means less customers for the company.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

11/27/12 6:44:51 AM#4
Originally posted by Drakaden

PKers have the least to lose from such practice, they just exchange their loot with an alt or a partner-in-crime and go stash their stuff safely unbothered by anything, they most of the time always have the upper hand when it comes to attacking, they do -just- that, they don't care about the monsters or the chests or whatever, yer busy doing that, you give them the instant advantage over you, and unlike those PKers that got nothing to lose, the people that tries to progress have everything to lose, they carry their stashes of the huntings and quests and they can die.

And don't go thinking those Pkers are always going solo, you would heavily underestimate them, the concern here is that this will scare away a good amount of potential players, because they will -hate- those griefers, it's just something they need to adjust in their game, a Pve only server and a PvP only server, or the option to go open PK instead of being forced to, right now, this game won't live well long-term, because it's alienating a large portion of players: Soloers, PvP hater players, new players trying to progress but struggling, those 3 categories already narrow a very large portion.

People will just quit if they see their things always disrupted by griefers, and that means less customers for the company.

That's a lot of speculation and for most people those concerns will be allayed once they see how the mechanics work. I get the feeling you have already made up your mind, though.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 6:47:05 AM#5
These aren't speculations, i played and experienced the game, i have seen how the PKers works, and i spoke to players i teamed with, and so far it's a universal agreement that the game won't last long-term in it's current state, but yes i did make my mind, there's no convincing to be made, it's their game, not mine.
  Arcondo87

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/12
Posts: 99

11/27/12 6:49:59 AM#6
WTF is this game its soo hott right now on MMORPG.com....is it a vindictus stle game? hack n slash? i dont get it....
  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 6:51:32 AM#7
Originally posted by Arcondo87
WTF is this game its soo hott right now on MMORPG.com....is it a vindictus stle game? hack n slash? i dont get it....

Closed beta NDA, cannot speak more than what is already spoken from the company, if you need infos, check their game page on MMORPG or their web site.

  Rilman

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 37

11/27/12 6:54:46 AM#8
Anyone know where the beta forums are for this? I'm in Beta but I can't find them anywhere.
  ibn_Cartwell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 56

11/27/12 7:07:57 AM#9
  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 7:13:23 AM#10
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell

Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFBa70z93s&feature=player_detailpage

 

Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

  ibn_Cartwell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 56

11/27/12 7:15:50 AM#11
Originally posted by Drakaden
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell

Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFBa70z93s&feature=player_detailpage

 

Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

 No, it's not about gear/level/ect, it's about flawed mechanics.

  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 7:22:12 AM#12
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
Originally posted by Drakaden
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell

Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFBa70z93s&feature=player_detailpage

 

Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

 No, it's not about gear/level/ect, it's about flawed mechanics.

What do you think levels/gear/"etc" are? What you see is an abuse of the terrain, but what you refuse to see is a superiority in those mechanics that you don't want to call them such, you seen that PK 1 - 2 shots vendors in town, you seen how some people do so little damage but receive so massive ones, are you in deniance? In any cases, those videos came justifying what i'm talking about.

  ibn_Cartwell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 56

11/27/12 8:07:33 AM#13
Originally posted by Drakaden
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
Originally posted by Drakaden
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell

Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFBa70z93s&feature=player_detailpage

 

Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

 No, it's not about gear/level/ect, it's about flawed mechanics.

What do you think levels/gear/"etc" are? What you see is an abuse of the terrain, but what you refuse to see is a superiority in those mechanics that you don't want to call them such, you seen that PK 1 - 2 shots vendors in town, you seen how some people do so little damage but receive so massive ones, are you in deniance? In any cases, those videos came justifying what i'm talking about.

 

Yes, as I said, bad mechanics, I see the imbalance you see. Having the mechanic of leveling and using equipment does not itself create imbalance, but bad regulation, if you under stand.
  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 8:08:25 AM#14
Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
Yes, as I said, bad mechanics, I see the imbalance you see. Having the mechanic of leveling and using equipment does not itself create imbalance, but bad regulation, if you under stand.

Yes, now were on the same wave length, thank you.

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3583

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

11/27/12 8:13:07 AM#15
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Drakaden

So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why?

Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible!

I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.

A PK racks up at least 8 hours of IN GAME time of criminal status per kill. That status affects all characters on that particular soul (each account has 2 souls), not just the one character. As a red, he has limited access to quests which are a major source of XP and gold. He has to sneak around town to avoid getting guard whacked or attacked by white players... or other red players. 

There really isn't a reason for many people to waste time killing newbies. Yes, there are those that will want to do it for fun and No, they won't last very long.

Do you really think thats going to stop or even hinder the Goonie types?  Such people get their jollies from ruining other peoples play experience.  These systems have been tried endlessly, and it always turns out the same way. It doesn't take more than a handful of them to really mess up a game.  

Use of such flawed dynamics SERIOUSLY limits a games appeal in many modern markets. 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7650

11/27/12 8:24:05 AM#16
Opvp seems like I would be all in. I wasn't. Really disappointed that this IP was used on this game.
  alakram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2240

11/27/12 8:40:26 AM#17

Open pvp and permadeath?. Great idea...

You start your character, level it a little and all of a sudden a PK killed you and your character is gone and the game is free to play so there is no money spent forcing you to try again. So you uninstall it and go play something else. Thats whats gonna happen.

-=AlaKraM=-
Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  Rilman

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 37

11/27/12 8:42:21 AM#18
That's not how it works in reality, there's souls that don't lose your skills, you lose a body and some gear but you can re-use the soul in another char so its not really true perma death.
  Drakaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/07
Posts: 121

 
OP  11/27/12 9:35:42 AM#19
Originally posted by Rilman
That's not how it works in reality, there's souls that don't lose your skills, you lose a body and some gear but you can re-use the soul in another char so its not really true perma death.

That ain't gonna stop people from wanting to stop playing if they get griefed.

  User Deleted
11/27/12 9:46:46 AM#20
Originally posted by Drakaden
Originally posted by Rilman
That's not how it works in reality, there's souls that don't lose your skills, you lose a body and some gear but you can re-use the soul in another char so its not really true perma death.

That ain't gonna stop people from wanting to stop playing if they get griefed.

There may be some issues with the system, but if some people are going to "give up" the first time they get PK'd then you have to question quite why those people have picked out the game in the first place.

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