Originally posted by dotdotdash
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
So why not go to the extreme since this is an extreme game--ganking a player under your level, or maybe under some level range, will result in your character not being able to be revived (0% chance) if you die while red. See? Easy peasy.
That's a disproportionately harsh penalty for a game play mechanic that is encouraged and catered for. It's nonsensiscal to assume that just because you dislike a particular style of game play, others should be punished for playing that way.
I think it would be a bit harsh, but I think farming characters ten levels below your level is harsh as well.
The point is this: the game offers CHALLENGE in the form of hard monster encounters, puzzles, mazes, and... yes, you guessed it... other players. You're not meant to go in game and have a static "run through the PvE treadmill" experience. It's very much like Dark Souls in that regard. This isn't supposed to be a PvE treadmill in the same way WoW is a PvE treadmill. You're not supposed to get off lightly. Every decision you make should be informed, because every decision you make can potentially result in a HUGE cost should you mess up. That's part and parcel of the appeal.
I'll agree with that, although you can never calculate the "human" factor in pvp.
If a player chooses to go for the PvP aspects of the game, they are opening themselves up to a load of restrictions PvE players don't have to suffer. They are limited in which vendors they can go to, they are fair game for PvE players to take down (as well as fair game for other PvP players), they can't risk the PvE content (see previous point) in the same way PvE players can, etc etc; they near-exclusivesly get their loot from killing other players.
So they have to go to a different vendor in the same town to get the same quality items? Since it's a pvp based game, they are fair game regardless. Why not, they can group and do pve, according to one of your next points. So the arguement grinds to a tie.
So let's look at this:
PvP players can kill PvE players. They can "get the jump" on them in certain situations. So how do you deal with that? Firstly, you don't blindly run at every mob you encounter, and if you pull... don't default to attacking. Check around the area and make sure there are no untoward players hanging around waiting for the chance to gank you. Once you're sure it is clear, take on the encounter. If you die, at least you did everything in your power to secure yourself.
Most common pvp tactic I have seen, attack while target is already engaged, so unless you and/or your party are alone, everyone is a potential threat.
PvP players can group-gank solo players, but PvE players can group up to avoid group ganking. You have to consider that in order to achieve ganking, PvP players have to form a group. Once they do, they're generally having to share loot. Grouping is rewarding in so much as they will pick off any stragglers with ease, but the price they pay is that each member of the group gets less loot. If you are solo and you get ganked, you were playing against the odds anyway. You can avoid being ganked by... being in a group of your own ;D GvG fights aren't going to be as cut and dry as PvPers would like them (considering the aims of PvP in WO), and they will either run, or stay and fight a long grueling battle. And if you die... at least you put the effort in ;)
Oh look, they can group, so much for no pve. Most pvp's will group in this game to gank,it is most certainly a group centric style of play. Also, pve's grouped will have to split as well. That's why they will engage after a group is busy.
This point about PvPers running naked, and moving gear to a mule to transfer to town, is nonsensical. PvEers can do this as well. What you're complaining about here is people playing intelligently, rather than any inherent imbalance in the system. If a PvPer attacks you with little to no gear on, and you have a fairly nice set of items... the first hit they MAY OR MAY NOT get on you isn't going to do them much good ;)
Yeah, that would not be advised, guess we will see kill squads in groups then?
The problem with PKing isn't the PKing itself. It's the ignorance that surrounds the systems in place. PvEers don't understand the price PvPers are paying to be able to PK, and so they just assume that they are having their cake and eating it. They're not, and people should work to be more informed about game play systems before they complain about them.
Yet to see any kind of punishment,other than being labled a criminal, and heaven forbid we can't have town npc's attacking those guys.
And if the game is too hard... go and play another game that isn't too hard. I'm fed up of this, "I don't like how the game is so it should change for me," ideal that exists in the MMO fanbase. It doesn't really exist anywhere else in gaming. If you don't like CoD, you play another FPS; you don't whine about it until they change it in the way that YOU want (and if you do, they just ignore you).
I agree 100%, but I find most of the whining comes from the pvp crowd calling for "balance." I have seen to many utility classes nerfed to useless because of this.
The sentiment I'm getting out of the beta right now is this: PKing is great fun during testing as there really isn't a long term price to pay for the actions commited. If you die, the amount of effort you've put it is negligible and easily dismissed. However... when the game goes live, PKing is going to become a rather stressful affair. PvEers can run around hundreds of other players at any given time, and only a small percent of them will ever pose a risk. PvPers won't have that luxury, with other PvPers AND PvEers all posing an equal and significant risk to their safety.
They are just testing the waters to get a head start on what works best for pvp, good for them.
The way I see it, if you play intelligently - whether you choose to run solo or not - you can easily minimise and control the risk of death at the hands of another player. And that's what the game is all about: damage control and mitigation, thinking, planning, taking your time, strategising, and.... paying the price when you fail to do those things :D
As long as you group, you may be ok. I have nothing against the setup for this game, it sounds fun, but don't bring this to the table, and not look at it from more than one point of view.