Originally posted by Dionysus187

PoTBS was in abotu the same state its in now before SoE got involved, save for technical stuff like bugs. Vanguard's biggest problem is that it had an absent, opiate addicted moron at the helm named Brad McQuaid BEFORE SoE had anything to do with it. Changes to SWG was LucasArts idea. SoE are publishers of PotBS, so anything bad with the game itself has nothing to do with them. I don't know why I even try though, people on  these forums don't seem to be big fans of things like 'facts' and 'evidence', course I take comfort in the FACT that SoE is around, making more money and growing so most people know better, they just don't spout off like children on forums all day.

True - but SoE added their own special brand of incompetence to the mix, and easily cost them allot of people who will never bother with a game SoE has anything to do with (especially one not getting good word of mouth).  SoE fumbled patching pretty bad early on with major speed problems and consistently patching down wrong files through closed beta even.  SoE Fed up the pre order distribution in about the worst way possible getting it to stores a month past the date it was supposed to get to stores.  SoE also Fed up royally with general distribution taking until now to finally get it in stores, and in some countries distribution is even worse, still.  In short - SoE made things worse and ensured a game that needed smooth and trouble free marketing and distribution got the opposite.

Originally posted by Hi-Five

FLS & POTBS Community,

 I remember when I got a warning for posting, "the pink elephant in the room is SOE” in the POTBS beta forum.

When FLS announced the partnership with SOE, everyone in BETA was really angry. The outcry was so loud that Mr. Rusty has to make a statement on this subject...

Cute's Top 5 assumptions regarding FLS and SOE backdoor deal that killed POTBS:

5- "Release soon, so it won't compete with other next gen MMO, such as Pirate of the Caribbean Online"

4-"Release this game within the time frame of the movie, while hype is still hot"

3-"We (SOE) are the world leader for MMO business, just look at SWG and Vanguard"

2-"SOE will enable FLS to focus on the creativity and maintaining the game, while SOE will enable FLS to get rich in Marketing, advertisement, promotion and subscription"

1-"Because we are Sony Online Entertainment (SOE)... we got great PowerPoint presentation, oh by the way, we own SWG and Vanguard...so FLS, you can be rich too... what ya say??" [Little giggle in the boardroom]

V/r

Cute

Take it from someone who followed this game for YEARS...and boycotted it when they announced their partnership with SOE:  You have NO IDEA what you are talking about!

SOE NEVER pushed them to release within the timeframe of the movies....the PLAYERS did.  We were begging them to release at their promised time, in June of 07, so that we would see some free publicity from the movies.  But they didn't.  They DELAYED, first until Oct., then until Feb. of 08....all while under the agreement with SOE.  Notice that line again:  The game, originally slated for June of 07 was pushed to Feb of 08, nine months after the last POTC movie, all while under SOE, and against the hopes of the players.

And the FLS crew was well aware of PotC online...for YEARS.  It was brought up at least once a day on the forums, from as far back as 2005.  FLS said over and over again that they didn't care about PotC, way before they signed with Sony.  Heck, they said they didn't care about AoC, back when the fans thought it would release in Oct., just four months after.  FLS never based their release decisions on other games...again, an attitude the followers weren't always pleased about.

As for falsely promoting themselves:  The Vanguard debacle was happening WHILE SOE and FLS were in negotiations.  SOE couldn't really promote their work with Vanguard when there was news EVERYWHERE about the mess it was in, and the way they took over.  Again, as someone who was on the boards, we reminded FLS about that daily, hoping they weren't in negotiations at the time.  They were, to my dislike.  But, they went in with eyes wide open.

Look....I boycott SOE and its products.  I followed FLS for years, and left within a week of the announcement of the SOE signing, a personal decision.  That said...making up false statements about what role companies played in a problem release is both silly, and useless.  If we keep giving people false impressions about what went wrong, and if we keep forgiving some peoples mistakes over others, then the industry will NEVER get the right message.  Don't lay on SOE the faults of the developers.  And don't lay SOE's faults on someone else.  Call the failures right...it will help

everyone down the line.

And, in case you're wondering, there IS fault here for both sides...just not the bogus ramblings you listed. 

FLS:  Got away from their strengths as a developer, tried to add designs to the game instead of ensuring the basics were set, did not give themselves enough time originally, and ended up delaying too long.  All the while, they failed to come up with a decent marketing strategy.  In the end, they ended up with a tacked on avatar system that's the weakest part of the game, watered down the game so that level cap happens in a month or so, and never completely polished the PvP aspects of the game (particularly the PIRATE part).

SOE:  Picked up the marketing where FLS left off....and did very little to distinguish the game from any other mmo's.  When tasked with getting the games in stores, and, even more importantly, getting the pre-orders into the hands of the hardcore fans, they failed miserably.  While they blamed all the software retailers, potential players spent weeks posting the locations where games could, and could not, be found.  They also failed to advise FLS on the potential pitfalls of spreading gamers among SO MANY servers.  They are NOT responsible for the design flaws, the poor added features, or the delays in release.

The conversations about SOE, and games in general, would be so much better if we could keep them in reality.

Who cares?  The game was a piece of s*** to begin with.

the op is very ignorant on this topic.

I feel that its a waste of time to explain to this guy what platform PUBLISHING means, so im not even going to bother.

And the first 2 assumptions are backwards, the game was delayed for about 4 months after the soe announcement and way after the release of the potc movie.

completly ignorant and misinforming everyone looking at these forums

In a nutshell

I write a book, ok now what......... Get it published so it can be sold to everyone around the world.

SOE is one of multiple MMO publishers, the other one i know of is NCsoft.

Originally posted by MasterPain55

the op is very ignorant on this topic.

I feel that its a waste of time to explain to this guy what platform PUBLISHING means, so im not even going to bother.

And the first 2 assumptions are backwards, the game was delayed for about 4 months after the soe announcement and way after the release of the potc movie.

completly ignorant and misinforming everyone looking at these forums

 

In a nutshell

I write a book, ok now what......... Get it published so it can be sold to everyone around the world.

SOE is one of multiple MMO publishers, the other one i know of is NCsoft.

 

People made the exact same argument with Vanguard. Look how that turned out.

I don't really have anything against SOE and I was just pointing out that they have some leverage in current FLS operations.

That being said the whole above discussion is really about deducting what mess was made by FLS and what mess was made by SOE. The point being that POTBS is a  mess and it wasn't necessary. Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by xersent

whats the point in being children , ever since SOE made the big change to SWG , there classed as useless , well we all make mistakes you all really need to get over it , such sad sad little lifes you lead and yes if you want to call it im trolling , but this needed to be said because some of us like SOE.

It is good that you like SOE, somebody has to : )

The problem with SOE is that they DO NOT LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES.

With Smedley at the helm, they never will.

I'm with Thunderous.

Anyone who thinks SWG was the only (or even the biggest) mistake SOE is guilty of reallllllly has an issue with the tint on their rose colored glasses.  That company have proven to be quite "toolish" over their ENTIRE gaming history.  In every last game they have ever ran, there have been cases of borderline THEFT and complete ignorance of customer support and satisfaction. 

To put it plainly, they are the Gene Simmons of gaming.  They very directly have assured us all that they have no interest in making fun games...only in making money.  They do not care how much of your enjoyment they take away from you, only how much potential enjoyment they can bleed your pockets for later.  When faced with any form of argument against those choices...they have proven they will ALWAYS shut it down by deleting and banning all information they CAN control to make sure nothing is ever brought to light.

SWG is just one really good example....but they have repeated every action in SWG in their other games as well (Outside of another NGE...though they HAVE come very close in both Vanguard and EQ2 with their revamps of the game)

If you want to toss your line with that lot, I have nothing but disgust for you.  Your money is being used to support the ideal that we are nothing more than walking wallets, and I personally think you should be taken into an alley and be beaten for reducing such a broad consumer base in such a way.

Originally posted by Seen_Justice

I can't see why any developper would want to do business with SOE

maybe SOE pays more or get lesser money for their job like other publishers.. and if a game developmer want make quick money they choose SOE. look at sigil, they have sayed a mmorpg is a sucess after hitting the 200k subscriber mark (or sold copys) .. after that they just sold their "project" lol.

nah SOE is a red rag to me.

Originally posted by Gishgeron

They very directly have assured us all that they have no interest in making fun games...only in making money.  They do not care how much of your enjoyment they take away from you, only how much potential enjoyment they can bleed your pockets for later. 

This really sums it up. SOE has forgotten that they are in the entertainment business and all their games suffer for it. Other, more successful, developers keep the focus on player entertainment where SOE minimizes it.

I am so sick of SOE discussions. I have read so many posts from people hating SOE, but never ever has one of those told a single true line, what they did wrong with the exception of perhaps SWG, but then even this error might belong to lucas games. You are all ranting, crying and telling you have read from other cry babies. Every second one of you not even played a game from SOE, but hey it is so much fun to hit them.

Disgusting!

Originally posted by goemoe

I am so sick of SOE discussions. I have read so many posts from people hating SOE, but never ever has one of those told a single true line, what they did wrong with the exception of perhaps SWG, but then even this error might belong to lucas games. You are all ranting, crying and telling you have read from other cry babies. Every second one of you not even played a game from SOE, but hey it is so much fun to hit them.

Disgusting!

 

I can assure that SOE deserves AT LEAST most of the negative publicity they get.

What they did to SWG wasn't just unethical, it was illegal, hence they later offered refunds.  When you secretly develop a new game behind the back of your playerbase for 7 months, all the while assuring them that balances and new content are coming to the existing game, then you suddenly announce that in matter of a week the game they have played for 2 + years is no more, and a new WoW-version of the game will take its place...  Issues.

No doubt LucasArts had a lot to do with it but SOE is the company that mass-banned players from the forums, that secretly developed SWG: NGE for 7 months, and told the playerbase fixes were coming to the CURRENT version of the game they were playing.  SOE even went as far to post development ideas for Ranger professions less than a week before they announced the NGE was going live.

SOE sold copies of an expansion that would be 100% useless in less than a month afterwards. 

That is just SWG.  SOE has upset a number of players from Vanguard, EQ 2, and other games as well.