Originally posted by zymurgeist

 You know I wish people would quit telling me I've done the impossible. It's going to make it hard to fit my head through doorways. I've done it. I'm not even that good, just persistant.

That's impressive.

So you're saying you beat the game killing Diablo in Inferno without resorting to the AH (either gold or RMAH)? Did you get lucky drops or just farm and get the items you needed? Did you roll DH or Wiz?

What's your secret?

How do you think patch 1.03 will affect the game?

I'm not saying it can't be done, because I haven't got that far. It just seems like it would be impossible based on what I've experienced so far. I've bought a lot of stuff on the gold AH whenever I got stuck and it boosted me right through the sticky part, so easily. I usually look for the cheapest items with the stat upgrades I need so I usually dropped like 150,000 gold every 3-4 levels and ramping up since I hit the mid 40s...now at 57. I think this can work, with the gold ramping up to 250,000 to 500,000 for my DH. But for the Barb, decent weapons are millions and I just don't want to grind that.

My barb is level 60 and parked in Act 1, inferno waiting for the DH to farm some gear/gold.  Don't know when that's gonna happen, though. :)

Wizards were broken early when the game released. They had a bugged out skill that literally made them unkillable.

The smart players knew this a rushed to the end of inferno before it was patched out.

When you see a player in a forum say You dont need the AH for items to progress 9 time out of ten they were a Wizard pre-balance patch the other time they were a DH before their fix lol.

As the game currently stands you can not clear all of Inferno Mode, I sad ALL OF INFERNO MODE by farming your own gear. its impossible. 

Edit: Again! ALL OF INFERNO Mode = Explore every area, kill everything that you find. 

Originally posted by 7star

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 You know I wish people would quit telling me I've done the impossible. It's going to make it hard to fit my head through doorways. I've done it. I'm not even that good, just persistant.

That's impressive.

 

So you're saying you beat the game killing Diablo in Inferno without resorting to the AH (either gold or RMAH)? Did you get lucky drops or just farm and get the items you needed? Did you roll DH or Wiz?

 

What's your secret?

 

How do you think patch 1.03 will affect the game?

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, because I haven't got that far. It just seems like it would be impossible based on what I've experienced so far. I've bought a lot of stuff on the gold AH whenever I got stuck and it boosted me right through the sticky part, so easily. I usually look for the cheapest items with the stat upgrades I need so I usually dropped like 150,000 gold every 3-4 levelsm and ramping up since I hit the mid 40s...now at 57. I think this can work, with the gold ramping up to 250,000 to 500,000 for my DH. But for the Barb, decent weapons are millions and I just don't want to grind that.

 

My barb is level 60 and parked in Act 1, inferno waiting for the DH to farm some gear/gold.  Don't know when that's gonna happen, though. :)

 

 

 Do it with a demon hunter or witch doctor. It's just a matter of persistance and picking your fights when you can. It's difficult you can't just key spam your way through the mobs.  I think the auction house actually reduces replayability. The other thing is no law says you have to beat inferno in the first month, or ever. The ending doesn't change. If the difficulty of hell or even nightmare is enough for you play that for now. You'll eventually get to the point you wonder what the fuss was about and just do it. I played nightmare in D2 for almost ayear before even bothering with hell. I don't play D3 inferno much even now. It's just too much of a pain in the posterior.

I, personally, find Diablo 3 very addictive. I am not able to compare it with D2 yet since it has not been out for so long.

I have my wizard in Act 3 inferno waiting for 1.0.3. I would be able to continue, but it gets kind of frustrating with the gear I possess and I do not feel like grinding the gear considering they will increase the drop rates soon.

There is one big problem with Diablo 3, for me, as well as for many others. It is the item system. Currently, we are chasing gear that gives +10 int/vit/dex/str which is no fun. I am considering waiting with my level 60 char until they implement more interesting gear like that we know from D2 (chance on hit, chance on being hit, auras, procs, etc...). To me, it just seems that hunting +10 vit/int/str/dex is a waste of time...

I am currently leveling several hardcore characters which I find to be the real challenge. Got monk lvl 50 in Act IV nightmare atm..having a blast playing it :)

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by 7star

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 You know I wish people would quit telling me I've done the impossible. It's going to make it hard to fit my head through doorways. I've done it. I'm not even that good, just persistant.

That's impressive.

 

So you're saying you beat the game killing Diablo in Inferno without resorting to the AH (either gold or RMAH)? Did you get lucky drops or just farm and get the items you needed? Did you roll DH or Wiz?

 

What's your secret?

 

How do you think patch 1.03 will affect the game?

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, because I haven't got that far. It just seems like it would be impossible based on what I've experienced so far. I've bought a lot of stuff on the gold AH whenever I got stuck and it boosted me right through the sticky part, so easily. I usually look for the cheapest items with the stat upgrades I need so I usually dropped like 150,000 gold every 3-4 levelsm and ramping up since I hit the mid 40s...now at 57. I think this can work, with the gold ramping up to 250,000 to 500,000 for my DH. But for the Barb, decent weapons are millions and I just don't want to grind that.

 

My barb is level 60 and parked in Act 1, inferno waiting for the DH to farm some gear/gold.  Don't know when that's gonna happen, though. :)

 

 

 Do it with a demon hunter or witch doctor. It's just a matter of persistance and picking your fights when you can. It's difficult you can't just key spam your way through the mobs.  I think the auction house actually reduces replayability. The other thing is no law says you have to beat inferno in the first month, or ever. The ending doesn't change. If the difficulty of hell or even nightmare is enough for you play that for now. You'll eventually get to the point you wonder what the fuss was about and just do it. I played nightmare in D2 for almost ayear before even bothering with hell. I don't play D3 inferno much even now. It's just too much of a pain in the posterior.

You can beat Inferno with every class if you skip mobs. Thats never been the issue. Also it was much easier for DHs and Wiz pre-nerf. 

I made a thread about loot drops and you told everyone that you cleared inferno after I said it was impossible to gear yourself and clear it without skipping mobs. 

Yet now you're sayign you had to pick your fights? that's skipping mobs my friend.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by 7star

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 You know I wish people would quit telling me I've done the impossible. It's going to make it hard to fit my head through doorways. I've done it. I'm not even that good, just persistant.

That's impressive.

 

So you're saying you beat the game killing Diablo in Inferno without resorting to the AH (either gold or RMAH)? Did you get lucky drops or just farm and get the items you needed? Did you roll DH or Wiz?

 

What's your secret?

 

How do you think patch 1.03 will affect the game?

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, because I haven't got that far. It just seems like it would be impossible based on what I've experienced so far. I've bought a lot of stuff on the gold AH whenever I got stuck and it boosted me right through the sticky part, so easily. I usually look for the cheapest items with the stat upgrades I need so I usually dropped like 150,000 gold every 3-4 levelsm and ramping up since I hit the mid 40s...now at 57. I think this can work, with the gold ramping up to 250,000 to 500,000 for my DH. But for the Barb, decent weapons are millions and I just don't want to grind that.

 

My barb is level 60 and parked in Act 1, inferno waiting for the DH to farm some gear/gold.  Don't know when that's gonna happen, though. :)

 

 

 Do it with a demon hunter or witch doctor. It's just a matter of persistance and picking your fights when you can. It's difficult you can't just key spam your way through the mobs.  I think the auction house actually reduces replayability. The other thing is no law says you have to beat inferno in the first month, or ever. The ending doesn't change. If the difficulty of hell or even nightmare is enough for you play that for now. You'll eventually get to the point you wonder what the fuss was about and just do it. I played nightmare in D2 for almost ayear before even bothering with hell. I don't play D3 inferno much even now. It's just too much of a pain in the posterior.

You can beat Inferno with every class if you skip mobs. Thats never been the issue. Also it was much easier for DHs and Wiz pre-nerf. 

I made a thread about loot drops and you told everyone that you cleared inferno after I said it was impossible to gear yourself and clear it without skipping mobs. 

Yet now you're sayign you had to pick your fights? that's skipping mobs my friend.

I posted I cleared it third try on my WD. I did it without skipping any mobs or any resetting the game other than when I quit for the day. Still died a lot. Go back and read the post. Better players have done it much easier. I can't do it on my barb I'm just not that good, or patient. I can probably do it by twinking my barb but hell you might as well use the auction house for that. I prefer to play clean. With any luck after 1.03 I can.

Have to agree, Barb is Act 2 Inferno, DH is also Act 1-2 Inferno and both of them are struggling for gear to get any deeper.

I find the major issue is that we cant run through a level to a boss and get good loot, in fact most people simply ignore the boss's as asources of loot now which is just stupid, In diablo 2 people would teleport to a boss kill it get loot then make a new game, now I agree that sucked, but I think taking the good loot away from a boss is also a bad idea.

Bring back boss loot.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by 7star

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 You know I wish people would quit telling me I've done the impossible. It's going to make it hard to fit my head through doorways. I've done it. I'm not even that good, just persistant.

That's impressive.

 

So you're saying you beat the game killing Diablo in Inferno without resorting to the AH (either gold or RMAH)? Did you get lucky drops or just farm and get the items you needed? Did you roll DH or Wiz?

 

What's your secret?

 

How do you think patch 1.03 will affect the game?

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, because I haven't got that far. It just seems like it would be impossible based on what I've experienced so far. I've bought a lot of stuff on the gold AH whenever I got stuck and it boosted me right through the sticky part, so easily. I usually look for the cheapest items with the stat upgrades I need so I usually dropped like 150,000 gold every 3-4 levelsm and ramping up since I hit the mid 40s...now at 57. I think this can work, with the gold ramping up to 250,000 to 500,000 for my DH. But for the Barb, decent weapons are millions and I just don't want to grind that.

 

My barb is level 60 and parked in Act 1, inferno waiting for the DH to farm some gear/gold.  Don't know when that's gonna happen, though. :)

 

 

 Do it with a demon hunter or witch doctor. It's just a matter of persistance and picking your fights when you can. It's difficult you can't just key spam your way through the mobs.  I think the auction house actually reduces replayability. The other thing is no law says you have to beat inferno in the first month, or ever. The ending doesn't change. If the difficulty of hell or even nightmare is enough for you play that for now. You'll eventually get to the point you wonder what the fuss was about and just do it. I played nightmare in D2 for almost ayear before even bothering with hell. I don't play D3 inferno much even now. It's just too much of a pain in the posterior.

You can beat Inferno with every class if you skip mobs. Thats never been the issue. Also it was much easier for DHs and Wiz pre-nerf. 

I made a thread about loot drops and you told everyone that you cleared inferno after I said it was impossible to gear yourself and clear it without skipping mobs. 

Yet now you're sayign you had to pick your fights? that's skipping mobs my friend.

I posted I cleared it third try on my WD. I did it without skipping any mobs or any resetting the game other than when I quit for the day. Still died a lot. Go back and read the post. Better players have done it much easier. I can't do it on my barb I'm just not that good, or patient. I can probably do it by twinking my barb but hell you might as well use the auction house for that. I prefer to play clean. With any luck after 1.03 I can.

Well you are indeed a unique snowflake. TO clear all of inferno with a WD solo... thats amazing. 

Full clear too? I've watched Pro players streaming on Twitch who use the AH to build 250K Dps characters fail in act 3 yet you can do it by farming your own items...

Amazing. I wish you were a Twitch streamer because you would have like 20 thousand viewers a day watching you do that because there are 350k DPS Demon hunters, Wizards and Barbs that cant get out of Act 3.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by 7star

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 You know I wish people would quit telling me I've done the impossible. It's going to make it hard to fit my head through doorways. I've done it. I'm not even that good, just persistant.

That's impressive.

 

So you're saying you beat the game killing Diablo in Inferno without resorting to the AH (either gold or RMAH)? Did you get lucky drops or just farm and get the items you needed? Did you roll DH or Wiz?

 

What's your secret?

 

How do you think patch 1.03 will affect the game?

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, because I haven't got that far. It just seems like it would be impossible based on what I've experienced so far. I've bought a lot of stuff on the gold AH whenever I got stuck and it boosted me right through the sticky part, so easily. I usually look for the cheapest items with the stat upgrades I need so I usually dropped like 150,000 gold every 3-4 levelsm and ramping up since I hit the mid 40s...now at 57. I think this can work, with the gold ramping up to 250,000 to 500,000 for my DH. But for the Barb, decent weapons are millions and I just don't want to grind that.

 

My barb is level 60 and parked in Act 1, inferno waiting for the DH to farm some gear/gold.  Don't know when that's gonna happen, though. :)

 

 

 Do it with a demon hunter or witch doctor. It's just a matter of persistance and picking your fights when you can. It's difficult you can't just key spam your way through the mobs.  I think the auction house actually reduces replayability. The other thing is no law says you have to beat inferno in the first month, or ever. The ending doesn't change. If the difficulty of hell or even nightmare is enough for you play that for now. You'll eventually get to the point you wonder what the fuss was about and just do it. I played nightmare in D2 for almost ayear before even bothering with hell. I don't play D3 inferno much even now. It's just too much of a pain in the posterior.

You can beat Inferno with every class if you skip mobs. Thats never been the issue. Also it was much easier for DHs and Wiz pre-nerf. 

I made a thread about loot drops and you told everyone that you cleared inferno after I said it was impossible to gear yourself and clear it without skipping mobs. 

Yet now you're sayign you had to pick your fights? that's skipping mobs my friend.

I posted I cleared it third try on my WD. I did it without skipping any mobs or any resetting the game other than when I quit for the day. Still died a lot. Go back and read the post. Better players have done it much easier. I can't do it on my barb I'm just not that good, or patient. I can probably do it by twinking my barb but hell you might as well use the auction house for that. I prefer to play clean. With any luck after 1.03 I can.

Well you are indeed a unique snowflake. TO clear all of inferno with a WD solo... thats amazing. 

Full clear too? I've watched Pro players streaming on Twitch who use the AH to build 250K Dps characters fail in act 3 yet you can do it by farming your own items...

Amazing. I wish you were a Twitch streamer because you would have like 20 thousand viewers a day watching you do that because there are 350k DPS Demon hunters, Wizards and Barbs that cant get out of Act 3.

 

 Nothing unique about it. A lot of people have done it. Almost all of them are better at it than I'll ever be. You just have to be a hardheaded son of a gun. Most people don't find that enjoyable.  It wouldn't be very fun for people to watch me die time after time. I mean hell you play hardcore now right? I can't do that. I wouldn't make it through act 1 normal.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Nothing unique about it. A lot of people have done it. Almost all of them are better at it than I'll ever be. You just have to be a hardheaded son of a gun. Most people don't find that enjoyable.  It wouldn't be very fun for people to watch me die time after time. I mean hell you play hardcore now right? I can't do that. I wouldn't make it through act 1 normal.

Ok I think we've both gone back and forth long enough lol.

Let's just hope the next major patch makes the game more enjoyable for us.

You should really give hardcore a go though. The community is much more relaxed than the softcore guys and the game is more focused toward the content and survival. Hardcore players have their own gold market and the pricing if you ever feel the need to buy something is much more reasonable. 

It doesn't have the taint of the Real cash AH imo and if you could hit 60 and get through hell the players at that level are amazing to play with. 

Anyway... Back to my HC Monk, laterz.

By far. Not even close. Not even in the same vicinity, area code or country.

Originally posted by stayBlind

Played D2 for years.

Played D3 for weeks.

Yea, I got bored sadly.

THIS!

Originally posted by 7star

Here is an interesting read in psych 101 terms.

 

http://www.alexc.me/a-scientific-explanation-why-diablo-3-is-less-addictive-than-diablo-2/417/

 

Any thoughts?

 

I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics. 

To answer the title, yes. And here's why, replayability. There isn't any in D3. I stopped playing because really, after reaching inferno and doing the EXACT same quests as before with hardly any randomization it became clear what kind of game it would be.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by 7star

Here is an interesting read in psych 101 terms.

 

http://www.alexc.me/a-scientific-explanation-why-diablo-3-is-less-addictive-than-diablo-2/417/

 

Any thoughts?

 

I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics. 

To answer the title, yes. And here's why, replayability. There isn't any in D3. I stopped playing because really, after reaching inferno and doing the EXACT same quests as before with hardly any randomization it became clear what kind of game it would be.

Diablo 3 is randomly generated. The dungeon layouts, the map events and obviously mobs, their abilities and their placement. 

What do you mean by not randomized? Like the main story arc? Wasn't aware that anyone wanted that.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by 7star

Here is an interesting read in psych 101 terms.

 

http://www.alexc.me/a-scientific-explanation-why-diablo-3-is-less-addictive-than-diablo-2/417/

 

Any thoughts?

 

I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics. 

 That's entirely up to the individual. He's also basing his argument on two false premises. That you have to use the auction house and that human beings prefer to be rewarded but not to be challenged. Humans aren't monkeys. They aren't Pavlov's dogs either.

Well, I guess it's your word against science then. :P Because neurology and primatology tell us the human brain works very much like that. There are well-known experiments that show this. It's actually amazing stuff. I'd recommend reading some Robert Sapolsky, for one (or maybe listening to him, he's funny!) 

Here's something else the primatologists / neurologists have shown us that has implications on gaming - and this is even more interesting:

When in such experiments the probability of the subject getting rewarded for the routine is less predictable (thus less than 100%), the subject gets a "secondary dopamine surge". Normally (on a 100% reward rate) the subject only gets a surge once the cue comes in (as shown in the linked blog article).

On a less predictable reward rate, something else hapens: The subject gets the first surge when the cue comes in, and a second one when he presses the lever. And the second one keeps rising until the point the reward is expected. Uncertainty in rewarding makes the whole thing more thrilling, apparently. :P

Something that's even more telling: When you decrease the probabilty of reward to less than 50%, the surge's potency decreases. This is perhaps to be expected. Hey, nobody likes being given the run-around! :P

But what's odder, to me, is that the surge's potency also decreases when you increase the reward rate! 

Says Sapolsky:

"Thus, the greatest amount of dopamine is released under the circumstance where there is some expectation of reward, but with the greatest degree of unpredictability. This strikes me as a neurobiological explanation for why intermittent reinforcement is the most effective reinforcement regime."

Originally posted by solarine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by 7star

Here is an interesting read in psych 101 terms.

 

http://www.alexc.me/a-scientific-explanation-why-diablo-3-is-less-addictive-than-diablo-2/417/

 

Any thoughts?

 

I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics. 

 That's entirely up to the individual. He's also basing his argument on two false premises. That you have to use the auction house and that human beings prefer to be rewarded but not to be challenged. Humans aren't monkeys. They aren't Pavlov's dogs either.

 

Well, I guess it's your word against science then. :P Because neurology and primatology tell us the human brain works very much like that. There are well-known experiments that show this. It's actually amazing stuff. I'd recommend reading some Robert Sapolsky, for one (or maybe listening to him, he's funny!) 

 

Here's something else the primatologists / neurologists have shown us that has implications on gaming - and this is even more interesting:

When in such experiments the probability of the subject getting rewarded for the routine is less predictable (thus less than 100%), the subject gets a "secondary dopamine surge". Normally (on a 100% reward rate) the subject only gets a surge once the cue comes in (as shown in the linked blog article).

On a less predictable reward rate, something else hapens: The subject gets the first surge when the cue comes in, and a second one when he presses the lever. And the second one keeps rising until the point the reward is expected. Uncertainty in rewarding makes the whole thing more thrilling, apparently. :P

Something that's even more telling: When you decrease the probabilty of reward to less than 50%, the surge's potency decreases. This is perhaps to be expected. Hey, nobody likes being given the run-around! :P

But what's odder, to me, is that the surge's potency also decreases when you increase the reward rate! 

Says Sapolsky:

"Thus, the greatest amount of dopamine is released under the circumstance where there is some expectation of reward, but with the greatest degree of unpredictability. This strikes me as a neurobiological explanation for why intermittent reinforcement is the most effective reinforcement regime."

 The problem with that theory is what humans consider a reward varies. You might lke to get spanked. Then again you might not. Our behaviors are much more complex than most primates. Sure if trigger a pleasure responses they're all going to have the same response but people may  play the same game for vastly different reasons. That's why you'll find most studies use a direct stimulus.  It's not me against science it's me against people trying to use science in ways that don't apply to further their agendas.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

The problem with that theory is what humans consider a reward varies. You might lke to get spanked. Then again you might not. Our behaviors are much more complex than most primates. Sure if trigger a pleasure responses they're all going to have the same response but people may  play the same game for vastly different reasons. That's why you'll find most studies use a direct stimulus.  It's not me against science it's me against people trying to use science in ways that don't apply to further their agendas.

Oh, but that's simple, zym. You just wire 'em up and and measure the activity! I'm sure you'll come up with more of a positive surge on loot drops vs. in-game-spanking! ;)

To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.

To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.

Played through once, did the first 2 acts at the second difficulty then stopped entirely.  Really wish I didn't buy it and that I still had my $60 bucks...

The AH definitely had a big impact on the enjoyment of the game. D2 was an online casino with a cool theme. A big part of the thrill was the chance of finding that item that everyone wanted but didn't have. Having the gold, and even worse cash, AHs completely neuter that aspect of it.  The AH works in games like WoW because most of the loot that matters and that makes your character more powerful binds to your character on pickup.  You had to be there for the kill to have the loot.

I think years of playing WoW and other MMOs, since my D2 days, is also a big factor.  A game like D3 where I'm just using 1-2 abilities over and over, and with little to no team coordination is just plain boring.  I need several action bars full of skills, a coordinated party and complex boss strategies to hold my attention now, at least as far as gameplay mechanics go.

Originally posted by Loke666

To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.

To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.

 I think it's fairly common. I've always felt Diablo 1 was the superior game. D2 just had so much crap thrown into it that had nothing to do with the game. I'm not a collector or stat tinkerer. Just give me a big axe and let me kill stuff.