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Diablo 3 Forum » General Discussion » Analysis of the Dev reply to Gosu

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27 posts found
  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/11/13 12:00:50 PM#21
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by nariusseldon

1) You are wrong. People at end game keep different sets of gear for different build. For example, wiz offhand .. trium has more dps but no APOC, or it is not BIS (no matter how the roll is) for CM wiz. CM wiz are all on Chan offhand, and archon are on trium.

This is end game gear we are talking about.

There are many examples like this. You just don't know the game well enough.

2) not enough? Since it is better than all other games i have played, i will say they are succcessful in that. Certainly better than WOW, EQ, ....

 

 

1) i am not, that you see the HUGE benefit of 1-2% of dps or 1-3 item pieces swap when you are above 100-150k dps is the problem here,we are again in the ej area

Gosh .. don't state your wrong opinion as facts. If I swap out my DPS weapon with my life-steal weapon, we are talking about 20% DPS loss. That is a norm.

If you look at Archon build vs CM ... dps can vary by 100%.

And dunno bout my experience with the game, you could be very well right, but it sound like a wierd argument since you seem to behave the same way as people that obsessed with and seeked top dps blue weapons at the beginning of d3 only to find out that they are constantly dying...

Of course i am right. I know the wiz class inside out, and play many other class. And no ... not everyone chase pure sheet DPS. In fact, effective DPS is different from the sheet DPS diabloprogress reports, and that depends on gear that gives other stuff like APOC.

2) if it is better that all the other games you have played, then you either have failing memory (and we all go there), or your game choices must have been very unfortunate

Tell me another game that have the kind of build variety and experimentation going on with D3. Not even D2 can do that.

As for eq and wow, you are not trying to pretend this problem does not exist, in wow especially?

WOW has cookie cutter build, and little gear choices (unlike D3). Thus, i jumped ship as soon as D3 is out.

And ofcourse proper mmorpgs offer distractions to make up for this lack of choices, that is why in a arpg or especially diablo game the (relative) lack of these choices is much more pressing and significant.

That is why ARPG (D3, PoE) are better for me than MMOs. They have better build/gear/combat tactics choices.
Do you know how many different builds i personally have tried in D3? I just tried another one last night. My only regret is i am not rich enough to properly gear for each build variation. I can only afford to gear for my "main" build. For example, i can only play archon wiz effective at high MP because i have teh right gear. I can't do CM wiz or Disintegration wiz (there is a video of one doing high MP) because of lack of gear.
It would be a much longer game than WOW if i want to gear for every build.

 

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

4/12/13 9:34:18 PM#22
Originally posted by nariusseldon
My only regret is i am not rich enough to properly gear for each build variation. I can only afford to gear for my "main" build. For example, i can only play archon wiz effective at high MP because i have teh right gear. I can't do CM wiz or Disintegration wiz (there is a video of one doing high MP) because of lack of gear.
It would be a much longer game than WOW if i want to gear for every build.

 

This is the important part and the general source of our disagreement, where you judge according to your current gear, or just a single gearset, i judge around possible gear.

Go to diabloprogress sometimes, roll out some top list (not dps :)), you will see many different builds (which is in the end a good thing) with very similar stats.

You are happy with the range and impact of choices, i am not, sorry.

Flame on!

:)

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/16/13 12:02:02 PM#23
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by nariusseldon
My only regret is i am not rich enough to properly gear for each build variation. I can only afford to gear for my "main" build. For example, i can only play archon wiz effective at high MP because i have teh right gear. I can't do CM wiz or Disintegration wiz (there is a video of one doing high MP) because of lack of gear.
It would be a much longer game than WOW if i want to gear for every build.

 

This is the important part and the general source of our disagreement, where you judge according to your current gear, or just a single gearset, i judge around possible gear.

Go to diabloprogress sometimes, roll out some top list (not dps :)), you will see many different builds (which is in the end a good thing) with very similar stats.

You are happy with the range and impact of choices, i am not, sorry.

Flame on!

:)

Because they put up the best dps gear. Otherwise they won't be on the chart.

If you actually read forums, it is not uncommon for players to discuss gear set switch. CM set vs Archon set. Even disintegration set, and switching from Tal Rasha, to Zuni to be more tanky. Heck, the biggest debate is whether one should switch to a LS weapon for RD mob .. there is a big thread about a while ago.

You just don't know the game.

You can have a preference of whether you LIKE the choices. But it is silly to deny they are there.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

4/17/13 5:24:53 PM#24
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Because they put up the best dps gear. Otherwise they won't be on the chart.

If you actually read forums, it is not uncommon for players to discuss gear set switch. CM set vs Archon set. Even disintegration set, and switching from Tal Rasha, to Zuni to be more tanky. Heck, the biggest debate is whether one should switch to a LS weapon for RD mob .. there is a big thread about a while ago.

You just don't know the game.

You can have a preference of whether you LIKE the choices. But it is silly to deny they are there.

Well, i said "not dps", what can i say?

And you are just overestimating the attractiveness of the choices, there was a 50 (or just very long, dont remember) page thread back in the days about the meta gem in the helmet in wow (0.5%-2% dps at the time), so there being enthusiasts does not mean much.

I can deny their "existence" if they offer or support no playstyle change or have a marginal impact (consider, if you stack ls or defense against a rd mob is meaningless if you still kill it the same way, and you still have to stack both), the same as we discount recoloring, even if it can affect your plastyle, as i found out on my work laptop a while ago, where i would gain 5fps by being "naked", thus it enabled me, if i chose to wear non-legendary gear, to play specs on it i was not able (or willing) before due to low fps :)

Flame on!

:)

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/18/13 1:48:53 PM#25
Originally posted by Banaghran

And you are just overestimating the attractiveness of the choices, there was a 50 (or just very long, dont remember) page thread back in the days about the meta gem in the helmet in wow (0.5%-2% dps at the time), so there being enthusiasts does not mean much.

I can deny their "existence" if they offer or support no playstyle change or have a marginal impact (consider, if you stack ls or defense against a rd mob is meaningless if you still kill it the same way, and you still have to stack both), the same as we discount recoloring, even if it can affect your plastyle, as i found out on my work laptop a while ago, where i would gain 5fps by being "naked", thus it enabled me, if i chose to wear non-legendary gear, to play specs on it i was not able (or willing) before due to low fps :)

And you are underestimating the attractiveness. The fact that archon and CM wiz gear differently (just one of MANY examples) shows that you are wrong.

And no playstyle change .. what are you smoking? Don't tell me you don't think CM wiz and Archon wiz play the same (and we have not even talk about meteor and other more gimicky build).

And let me put it this way, i have pretty high DPS, great for a archon wiz, and my gear CANNOT play CM wiz at the same MP level (not even lower) just because i have no APOC, and my AS is not high enough to permanently freeze mobs.

Tell me that is not a playstyle change. BTW, the highest dps wiz on diabloprogress cannot play WW CM, or meteor because of lack of APOC. Tell me that is not a playstyle difference. In fact, he is probably rich enough to have multiple sets of gear for those builds, but i don't.

 

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

4/18/13 5:55:19 PM#26
Originally posted by nariusseldon

And you are underestimating the attractiveness. The fact that archon and CM wiz gear differently (just one of MANY examples) shows that you are wrong.

And no playstyle change .. what are you smoking? Don't tell me you don't think CM wiz and Archon wiz play the same (and we have not even talk about meteor and other more gimicky build).

And let me put it this way, i have pretty high DPS, great for a archon wiz, and my gear CANNOT play CM wiz at the same MP level (not even lower) just because i have no APOC, and my AS is not high enough to permanently freeze mobs.

Tell me that is not a playstyle change. BTW, the highest dps wiz on diabloprogress cannot play WW CM, or meteor because of lack of APOC. Tell me that is not a playstyle difference. In fact, he is probably rich enough to have multiple sets of gear for those builds, but i don't.

 

If you dont have 2.0-2.3 aps, your gear lacks overall.

APOC is 2 items, that is not really stacking a stat, or choosing a stat, it really falls into the "gimmicky legs" category, which i said is simply not big enough. I mean, you WOULD have a point (even if one swallow does not make spring happen), if it would not be a wizz specific stat, but some generic one, like "bonus to resource generation".

And technically, if i chose to nitpick, it does not change my original point, that as you advance higher and higher the difference between you and the next wizz grows smaller and smaller, cause 20-30 apoc stays 20-30 apoc, while all other stats go up :)

It is funny how we went from "diablo 3 offers not enough choice" to "PROVE TO ME THAT IT DOES NOT OFFER ANY CHOICE AT ALL !!!" :)

Flame on!

:)

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/18/13 7:00:08 PM#27
Originally posted by Banaghran
 

If you dont have 2.0-2.3 aps, your gear lacks overall.

Even at 400+ sheet dps while something can do MP10 at 200k dps if you have 3.0+ APS?

APOC is 2 items, that is not really stacking a stat, or choosing a stat, it really falls into the "gimmicky legs" category, which i said is simply not big enough. I mean, you WOULD have a point (even if one swallow does not make spring happen), if it would not be a wizz specific stat, but some generic one, like "bonus to resource generation".

LOL ..now you are dismissing all the choices as gimick. That is just ONE example. How about 2Her for disintegration build?

And technically, if i chose to nitpick, it does not change my original point, that as you advance higher and higher the difference between you and the next wizz grows smaller and smaller, cause 20-30 apoc stays 20-30 apoc, while all other stats go up :)

That is incorrect. Since for the gear to roll APOC, it has ONE affix that cannot be rolled other stats. Logically, you cannot have the same DPS if everything rolls maximum, if you have two APOC affixes. And there are many other cases than APOC.

It is funny how we went from "diablo 3 offers not enough choice" to "PROVE TO ME THAT IT DOES NOT OFFER ANY CHOICE AT ALL !!!" :)

Because "enough" is subjective. And you are going to the extreme. There are more than 5-6 builds (and i am being conservative here, wiz has a lot more with different gear requirement) for each class, and that is more than ANY MMO (or you can include other RPGs, except may be D2) .. and if that is not enough .. well .. there is no game that will be "enough" for you.
 

 

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