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Neverwinter Forum » General Discussion » Neverwinter Impression

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84 posts found
  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2100

First came pride, then envy.

3/23/13 9:44:30 PM#21
Originally posted by Elikal

(This is originally meant for Cryptic Feedback, but I guess I wanted to share this here, too.)

 

Oh my. Where to begin?

Ya know, at the beginning 2 weeks ago I really like Neverwinter. I played Rogue and Cleric to 20 and it was ok. Not thrilling me out of my boots, but fun enough.

This weekend, I really have doubts I am going to play this game at all. I played Wizard to 10 and Guardian and GWF to the same level... and no. Just no. I mean, the game looks interesting enough, but the combat system is what just breaks this game for me. Just a few impressions, because I am atm too tired to write it in detail:

 

- the rooting combat is just feeling SO yesterday. In an action combat system as this and in 2013 I just EXPECT a combat system where I can move, and where I am NOT rooted while fighting. That feels just totally off.

- I say it as clearly as I feel it: the potion system is what totally breaks this game *for me*. I like to solo, and unless you play Cleric or Rogue with the decoy you just waste away potions. And sorry, I know this is how D&D works, but we don't have 1990. This game need a regular HP regen. Period. Just drop this potion heal system. It is what really prevents me from playing this game, even if everything else was great. I don't like it. It's clumsy, old fashioned, and punishes you for playing a non cleric or non-rogue because you spent TONS more money for potions. It is simply yesterday's game mechanic. It has to go. Guardians, Wizards and GWF have no way to really evade or heal, so you WILL lose HP, and that makes soloing a chore.

 

ADDITIONAL NOTES:

 

- The F loot is just needlessly cumbersome. Just let us auto-loot stuff like the money.

- There is a serious difficulty gap between 10 and 16, when you get your companion. I suggest we should get out first free companion with level 10 or earlier.

- Alas, the game is too close to the old D&D ideal, that you start SUPER weak. Again, that is yesterday's gameplay. Classes started to feel real with lv 18 or 20, and classes should be cool right away.

- there are WAAY too few armor, clothing and weapon models. And they look way too primitive, sorry. Nothing to look forward to.

- Wizard, Guardian and GWF especially feel totally hectic. I found myself just button smashing, but that was more or less the case with all classes. I dunno why, but the game makes me feel worn out, like after work, pretty quickly. Combat and controls are just needing a long way to improve.

- The early on experience is boring. Sorry, it is even for a tutorial bad. You should captivate the players with excitement and coolness, and this... doesn't work. I really would rework the entire first 10 levels. Let the player FEEL good. Somehow give him the feeling to be strong and have some impact, like the tutorial from Champions Online!

- Why the heck is there no zoom?

- Neverwinter is no tabletop game. People WILL want to solo, and as it is the game is way too solo unfriendly. Again, the first ten or fifteen levels are just chore, don't feel epic and rewarding, it feels like work. Both the powers and the story experience needs rework. The classes are clearly designed for group play, as a Pen and Paper game, but in a MMO people solo most of the time. It can't be changed. But the design of the classes is NOT for soloing. It just doesn't work. Again, drop the potion idea, add a normal self regen as in EVERY other MMO.

- Monster respawn is WAAAY too high. It's insane! I turn around and BAM all the Orcs are back. I can't explore at all, and it kills any feeling of accomplishment.

 

TL;DR:

Neverwinter has the potential to be good and cool, but IMVPO it needs a lot of work yet and the daring to drop some D&D ideologies and become a more modern MMO. This ain't 1990.

A good post.  You hit on most of the critical flaws with this game.  The rooted system, potion system, and cumbersome UI really felt dated to me.  The fact that pressing ALT locks players into one camera position turned me off.  I wanted camera rotation.  I only got to level 6, but from what little i played, i just couldn't get into the movement restrictions.  Surprisingly though, i actually enjoyed the questing and story.

I actually liked looting with F, ala GW2, except in NW it's required to press it twice which gets annoying.

There is also zoom by pressing B, but once again, you're locked into camera position without freedom of camera rotation.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

3/23/13 9:47:44 PM#22
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Draemos
 
GoW & DMC are your examples of animation lock? I'm very confused. Pausing to mash that button that pops up on screen isn't really animation lock.

in games like DMC/GoW when you use an ability you are essentially locked into it.. thing is the abilities are very fast and extremely quick transition from skill to movement to skills so its hardly noticable at all. When the transitions are not fast and smooth like the control wizard in this game it sticks out a lot more and is annoying(imho)

Ya, I know what animation lock is (I do quite a bit of animation), but when it comes to non-MMOs these are probably some of the least severe combat systems when it comes to animation lock. In fact they work on minimizing it as much as possible. There's even forced cancels built into those games, and many of the skills allow for movement as you're using them. To then turn around and belittle GW2's combat animations is basically like praising DMC's combat, and then turning around and saying Bayonetta's was phoned in. Doesn't make much sense.

If anything, there are much better examples of popular games with animation lock (I.E. Demon Souls), though they aren't known for their combat smoothness. (mostly because of the animation locks)

It exists in almost every game that is considered a good console combat game, that was the point.  If you feel the need to transplant Demon Souls as your example, have at it hoss.  The point is the same. Those games could completely eliminate it if, but then you get the lame ass skating on ass nonsense that most action MMOs suffer from, and the combat becomes significantly less interesting.  You lose then sense of impact, timing, positional importance,  etc that animation lock provides... and you get a generic MMO where you just spam shit w/out regard to anything but it's cooldown (ie GW2, WoW, etc)

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 9:52:00 PM#23
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Draemos
 
GoW & DMC are your examples of animation lock? I'm very confused. Pausing to mash that button that pops up on screen isn't really animation lock.

in games like DMC/GoW when you use an ability you are essentially locked into it.. thing is the abilities are very fast and extremely quick transition from skill to movement to skills so its hardly noticable at all. When the transitions are not fast and smooth like the control wizard in this game it sticks out a lot more and is annoying(imho)

Ya, I know what animation lock is (I do quite a bit of animation), but when it comes to non-MMOs these are probably some of the least severe combat systems when it comes to animation lock. In fact they work on minimizing it as much as possible. There's even forced cancels built into those games, and many of the skills allow for movement as you're using them. To then turn around and belittle GW2's combat animations is basically like praising DMC's combat, and then turning around and saying Bayonetta's was phoned in. Doesn't make much sense.

If anything, there are much better examples of popular games with animation lock (I.E. Demon Souls), though they aren't known for their combat smoothness. (mostly because of the animation locks)

It exists in almost every game that is considered a good console combat game, that was the point.  If you feel the need to transplant Demon Souls as your example, have at it hoss.  The point is the same. Those games could completely eliminate it if, but then you get the lame ass skating on ass nonsense that most action MMOs suffer from, and the combat becomes significantly less interesting. and more casual.

how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?.. 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

3/23/13 9:56:39 PM#24
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Draemos
 
GoW & DMC are your examples of animation lock? I'm very confused. Pausing to mash that button that pops up on screen isn't really animation lock.

in games like DMC/GoW when you use an ability you are essentially locked into it.. thing is the abilities are very fast and extremely quick transition from skill to movement to skills so its hardly noticable at all. When the transitions are not fast and smooth like the control wizard in this game it sticks out a lot more and is annoying(imho)

Ya, I know what animation lock is (I do quite a bit of animation), but when it comes to non-MMOs these are probably some of the least severe combat systems when it comes to animation lock. In fact they work on minimizing it as much as possible. There's even forced cancels built into those games, and many of the skills allow for movement as you're using them. To then turn around and belittle GW2's combat animations is basically like praising DMC's combat, and then turning around and saying Bayonetta's was phoned in. Doesn't make much sense.

If anything, there are much better examples of popular games with animation lock (I.E. Demon Souls), though they aren't known for their combat smoothness. (mostly because of the animation locks)

It exists in almost every game that is considered a good console combat game, that was the point.  If you feel the need to transplant Demon Souls as your example, have at it hoss.  The point is the same. Those games could completely eliminate it if, but then you get the lame ass skating on ass nonsense that most action MMOs suffer from, and the combat becomes significantly less interesting. and more casual.

how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?.. 

Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.

Timing becomes less important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.

Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything.  It becomes extremely lame.

 

There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake.  It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action.   It woudl reduce the illusion of impact that combat has.GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.  It's floaty and loose and not as fun.

  cybersrs

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/10
Posts: 156

3/23/13 10:00:40 PM#25
Originally posted by Gravarg
The only negative thing I can say about it is that there isn't enough classes.  I know they're coming and all that, but as it stands right now, unless there's like 10+ classes at least, it's kinda missing out.  The stop combat is because you control wizard and cleric were mega overpowered in pvp.  They just ran around kiting melee.  Melee would get one maybe two hits in, and then they were out of range again.  Overall, for a beta, I like how it is.  It reminds me of DDO to some extent, and  I liked that game too :)

That is the thing I do not understand... they wont allow you to cast/use skills while moving, right? So if the ranged keeps kitting the melee, and melee needs to stop to dps, how the melee class will do damge if the ranged keeps kitting?

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 10:05:32 PM#26
Originally posted by Draemos

how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?.. 

Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.

Timing become sless important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.

Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything.  It becomes extremely lame.

 

There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake.  It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action.  GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.

of course its very importent.. just implemented in a differn't way. For example gw2 if i don't dodge or CC an attack from certain npcs I get one shot. It's all about positioning, avoiding, and using skills to detract the incoming damage. I understand the argument of the floaty feeling combat and strikes having less "weight" to them though.

Also i'm fine with keeping animation locks and rooting in neverwinter i'm just not fine with how it looks/feels currently and really needs some work to clean up animation transitions

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2100

First came pride, then envy.

3/23/13 10:11:22 PM#27

It exists in almost every game that is considered a good console combat game, that was the point.  If you feel the need to transplant Demon Souls as your example, have at it hoss.  The point is the same. Those games could completely eliminate it if, but then you get the lame ass skating on ass nonsense that most action MMOs suffer from, and the combat becomes significantly less interesting.  You lose then sense of impact, timing, positional importance,  etc that animation lock provides... and you get a generic MMO where you just spam shit w/out regard to anything but it's cooldown (ie GW2, WoW, etc)

Cooldowns in GW2 & WoW are different.  In GW2, you will waste a cooldown on most skills if you mindlessly spam the button without timing it or positioning it.  It's also different  in WoW, where a skill is prevented from being used if you aren't in range.  I'm not sure how Tera fits into this, since i never played it, but i would think combat in Tera is more akin to GW2?

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

3/23/13 10:11:22 PM#28
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Draemos

how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?.. 

Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.

Timing become sless important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.

Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything.  It becomes extremely lame.

 

There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake.  It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action.  GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.

of course its very importent.. just implemented in a differn't way. For example gw2 if i don't or CC an attack from certain npcs I get one shot. It's all about positioning, avoiding, and using skills to detract the incoming damage. I understand the argument of the floaty feeling combat and strikes having less "weight" to them though.

Also i'm fine with keeping animation locks and rooting in neverwinter i'm just not fine with how it looks/feels currently and really needs some work to clean up animation transitions

It's not as important, on anywhere near the same level.  If you wind up a massive attack right when that giant is about to stomp, you are going to be fucked in an action lock game.  You need to be more aware of your enemy and what his attack cyles and tells are.  In GW2 you just move sideways or hit your dodge button. GW2 combat involves mostly just hitting your attacks as they come off cooldown, or resource manement... very MMO type of combat mechanics. There is very little forethought required, and the forethought that is required is on the same level as WoW's "stay the fuck out of the fire stupid", or "dont stand by a dragon's tail you moron".

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

3/23/13 10:14:31 PM#29
Originally posted by observer

It exists in almost every game that is considered a good console combat game, that was the point.  If you feel the need to transplant Demon Souls as your example, have at it hoss.  The point is the same. Those games could completely eliminate it if, but then you get the lame ass skating on ass nonsense that most action MMOs suffer from, and the combat becomes significantly less interesting.  You lose then sense of impact, timing, positional importance,  etc that animation lock provides... and you get a generic MMO where you just spam shit w/out regard to anything but it's cooldown (ie GW2, WoW, etc)

Cooldowns in GW2 & WoW are different.  You will waste a cooldown on most skills if you mindlessly spam the button without timing it or positioning it.  It's also different  in WoW, where a skill is prevented from being used if you aren't in range.  I'm not sure how Tera fits into this, since i never played it, but i would think combat in Tera is more akin to GW2?

Yes, there are difference, but the concept is the same and the differences aren't really relavent to this discussion.  

Tera combat is more like Neverwinter.  It favors heavy animation locks.  So do most MMO games that are praised for their combat, such as Vindictus and DCUO(although DCUO has an added layer of knowing how and when you can break animations, but it's still an animation lock game at heart).  Their combat is also significantly more involved and skill based for the same reason.  Putting yourself out of position on a boss fight or tying yourself up in a long animation at the wrong time will get you killed.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 10:18:44 PM#30
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Draemos

how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?.. 

Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.

Timing become sless important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.

Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything.  It becomes extremely lame.

 

There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake.  It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action.  GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.

of course its very importent.. just implemented in a differn't way. For example gw2 if i don't or CC an attack from certain npcs I get one shot. It's all about positioning, avoiding, and using skills to detract the incoming damage. I understand the argument of the floaty feeling combat and strikes having less "weight" to them though.

Also i'm fine with keeping animation locks and rooting in neverwinter i'm just not fine with how it looks/feels currently and really needs some work to clean up animation transitions

It's not as important, on anywhere near the same level.  If you wind up a massive attack right when that giant is about to stomp, you are going to be fucked in an action lock game.  You need to be more aware of your enemy and what his attack cyles and tells are.  In GW2 you just move sideways or hit your dodge button. GW2 combat involves mostly just hitting your attacks as they come off cooldown, or resource manement... very MMO type of combat mechanics. There is very little forethought required, and the forethought that is required is on the same level as WoW's "stay the fuck out of the fire stupid", or "dont stand by a dragon's tail you moron".

have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2  as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well. 

NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

3/23/13 10:25:04 PM#31
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Draemos

how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?.. 

Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.

Timing become sless important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.

Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything.  It becomes extremely lame.

 

There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake.  It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action.  GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.

of course its very importent.. just implemented in a differn't way. For example gw2 if i don't or CC an attack from certain npcs I get one shot. It's all about positioning, avoiding, and using skills to detract the incoming damage. I understand the argument of the floaty feeling combat and strikes having less "weight" to them though.

Also i'm fine with keeping animation locks and rooting in neverwinter i'm just not fine with how it looks/feels currently and really needs some work to clean up animation transitions

It's not as important, on anywhere near the same level.  If you wind up a massive attack right when that giant is about to stomp, you are going to be fucked in an action lock game.  You need to be more aware of your enemy and what his attack cyles and tells are.  In GW2 you just move sideways or hit your dodge button. GW2 combat involves mostly just hitting your attacks as they come off cooldown, or resource manement... very MMO type of combat mechanics. There is very little forethought required, and the forethought that is required is on the same level as WoW's "stay the fuck out of the fire stupid", or "dont stand by a dragon's tail you moron".

have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2  as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well. 

NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)

 What do you do when those mechanics happen?  You just hit the dodge button.  It's a very basic mechanic,.  In the middle of a Thousand Blades?  Who cares, just dodge... animation is canceled, no biggy.  Badly out of position when you start up that fireball and you're about to eat a stomp?  Just move and keep DPSing, no biggy.    If GW2 isn't giving you clear tells, that's just bad game design to be perfectly honest.

Neverwinter gets decidedly more chaotic at higher levels.  Tera does too for that matter.  I dunno if you've played Tera at the highest levels, but it's pretty intense... no room for mistakes.  Neverwinter will probably never be that hard, it's a Cryptic game after all.

I feel like certain classes in NW could be polished up, and others feel really good.  The Thief feels really good, the GWF not so much.  Naturally, the GWF should be a little more clunky, but it could still use some polish.  The Control Wizard could  be a  bit less gawdy with his flourishes, and quicker with his transitions.

However, going to an inferior combat system isn't the answer.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 10:34:25 PM#32
Originally posted by Draemos

have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2  as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well. 

NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)

 What do you do when those mechanics happen?  You just hit the dodge button.  It's a very basic mechanic,.  In the middle of a Thousand Blades?  Who cares, just dodge... animation is canceled, no biggy.  Badly out of position when you start up that fireball and you're about to eat a stomp?  Just move and keep DPSing, no biggy.  

Neverwinter gets decidedly more chaotic at higher levels.  Tera does too for that matter.  I dunno if you've played Tera at the highest levels, but it's pretty intense... no room for mistakes.

I feel like certain classes in NW could be polished up, and others feel really good.  The Thief feels really good, the GWF not so much.  Naturally, the GWF should be a little more clunky, but it could still use some polish.  The Control Wizard could  be a  bit less gawdy with his flourishes, and quicker with his transitions.

However, going to an inferior combat system isn't the answer.

what happens when you can't dodge? you don't have unlimited stamina and when a lot is going on you will use up those dodges fast. For tera highest I got was 30 but had no issue soloing all the bams at that level as their tells and attacks were very slow and easy to counter. Overall just comparing 1-30 i found tera much easier pve wise than gw2.

Melee in NW i think is fine i don't enjoy guardian as i feel the block is nowhere near as responsive feeling as lancer in tera and gwf is just meh to me. Rogue is awsome though really love the rogue. Ranged is just awful for me in this game... but luckily i enjoy one class heh.. hopefully more will get added shortly

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

3/23/13 10:40:57 PM#33
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Draemos

have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2  as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well. 

NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)

 What do you do when those mechanics happen?  You just hit the dodge button.  It's a very basic mechanic,.  In the middle of a Thousand Blades?  Who cares, just dodge... animation is canceled, no biggy.  Badly out of position when you start up that fireball and you're about to eat a stomp?  Just move and keep DPSing, no biggy.  

Neverwinter gets decidedly more chaotic at higher levels.  Tera does too for that matter.  I dunno if you've played Tera at the highest levels, but it's pretty intense... no room for mistakes.

I feel like certain classes in NW could be polished up, and others feel really good.  The Thief feels really good, the GWF not so much.  Naturally, the GWF should be a little more clunky, but it could still use some polish.  The Control Wizard could  be a  bit less gawdy with his flourishes, and quicker with his transitions.

However, going to an inferior combat system isn't the answer.

what happens when you can't dodge? you don't have unlimited stamina and when a lot is going on you will use up those dodges fast. For tera highest I got was 30 but had no issue soloing all the bams at that level as their tells and attacks were very slow and easy to counter. Overall just comparing 1-30 i found tera much easier pve wise than gw2.

Melee in NW i think is fine i don't enjoy guardian as i feel the block is nowhere near as responsive feeling as lancer in tera and gwf is just meh to me. Rogue is awsome though really love the rogue. Ranged is just awful for me in this game... but luckily i enjoy one class heh.. hopefully more will get added shortly

Level 30 is cakewalk .  You have to get higher to get a real feel for the game's difficulty, it is nowhere near the same at cap.  Leveling is also dependant on class quite a bit, a Slayer or Archer is a joke to level with... a Warrior is (or was, I havne't played recently) quite a bit more of a challenge.  But ultimately, PvE leveling is not where Tera's difficulty lies.

All these games have the dodging limitation (in Tera's case it's a cool-down); it's not unique to GW2.  Neverwinter even uses an almost identical dodge mechanic to GW2... even the stamina bar is in the same location on the UI.

 

BTW, I just tested in NW and it's dodge mechanic actually lets you break animation.  I'm not a fan of that, but that should be something for you guys that hate animation locks.

  AnubisPrime

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/06/06
Posts: 5

3/23/13 11:04:01 PM#34
Originally posted by aesperus

 

It's not a cutting edge MMO, and I haven't seen anywhere that claims it to be. It's essentially an updated throw-back to DDO, and I think for that it does it's job quite well.

- Essentially the game is meant for DDO fans, who want a newer game, as well as enjoy reading tons of lore and backstory in their RPGs. The game offers this.

Aside from that, I think the game is fairly good for what it's intended to be. Again, this isn't supposed to be the next big MMO. It's just a fun game for DDO fans, and that's it.

 

I have participated in two beta weekends including the current one.

As a founding DDO player I will say in my opinion that this game is not at all intended for DDO players.  DDO is 3.5 with a touch of 4E.  This game is all 4E with the only things that remind you of DDO are words like "Rogue", "Cleric", "Fighter" and "Wizard".  The linear pathing and "fetch 5 of this" quests have nothing to do with DDO.  The "level up and everybody gets the same spells, items, and powers" are nothing like DDO.  That's more like World of Warcraft, SWTOR, etc.

That said it may appeal to pnp D&D players whom  are enamored with 4E. 

Playing this game in fact, I found it to be 180 degrees opposite of DDO.  The inescapable mouslook controls felt imprisoning--so much so that when I jumped back to DDO I felt like there were chains ripped off of my wrists.  

 

There are some positive things:

The game does have lush environments and wonderful ambient sounds.  The voice acting is great.   The cinematics (that you can see on YouTube) are wonderful.

Combat is "actiony".  It's like I'm playing a console game.  Come to think of it, I hear you can use a gamepad to play.  I just may have to try it to see if it feels any better...

The game does pay homage well to 4E, in the realm of things like daily powers and at will powers.

 

 

People I know in DDO do not find this game to be the next DDO that is going to draw them away.

The Old Timer's Guild DDO Chapter Leader

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

 
OP  3/24/13 1:54:43 AM#35

My only issue with Neverwinter (is there is short version? NWO? NW? NWN???) the potion system. I loath MMOs with that. It means I *constantly* stare at the health-o-meter, I constantly ponder when to use the potion and when not to waste it, and that TOTALLY distracts me from the combat itself. I can't stand it. Passionately.

Also it's unfair. Clerics can self heal, Rogues can avoid most damage with the Dummy and other stuff, but Guardian... phew trying to block away dmg was such a hassle, I simply failed at it, so I lost dmg like crazy and spent essentially ALL money on potions. So not funny. Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.

No, just no. I can totally live with the graphis and other stuff. But the combat and potion system HAS to be reworked. Just saying how I feel, of course, but tbh I think of Cryptic leaves the game as it is, it's not going anywhere.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

3/24/13 2:33:34 AM#36
Originally posted by Elikal

My only issue with Neverwinter (is there is short version? NWO? NW? NWN???) the potion system. I loath MMOs with that. It means I *constantly* stare at the health-o-meter, I constantly ponder when to use the potion and when not to waste it, and that TOTALLY distracts me from the combat itself. I can't stand it. Passionately.

Also it's unfair. Clerics can self heal, Rogues can avoid most damage with the Dummy and other stuff, but Guardian... phew trying to block away dmg was such a hassle, I simply failed at it, so I lost dmg like crazy and spent essentially ALL money on potions. So not funny. Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.

No, just no. I can totally live with the graphis and other stuff. But the combat and potion system HAS to be reworked. Just saying how I feel, of course, but tbh I think of Cryptic leaves the game as it is, it's not going anywhere.

Your whole screen turns red when you get low, why in the hell are you staring at your health bar?  Neither has to be reworked at all, they're both fine... the game does have some problems, it suffers from some extremely generic questing and whether or not there is actually enough content w/out depending on Foundry are both issues... but neither potions nor combat are one of them.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

3/24/13 2:38:57 AM#37
Originally posted by Elikal

 Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.

If anything those two classes are a bit OP. GWF does have a minor heal ability too you know. Did you try dodging/tele at all? A lot of damage can be avoided in this game.

I am not a fan of the root mechanic but I don't think it is near as bad as you make it out to be. At the very least though you should be able to move and break the skill you were attempting for god's sake if you decide to do so.

 

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  AwDiddums

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/12
Posts: 368

3/24/13 2:46:03 AM#38

May I point out that very few MMO's do not employ some type of combat rooting, it may take another form but it's still there, for example in WoW I play a Druid, it takes me a few seconds to cast my big heal yet if I move that spell is cancelled, so I have to stay "rooted" to the spot to get that spell off. Sure they add in some tools to allow for an instant cast but I have use another ability for that to happen and it's not an "Always on" ability.

 

 

  akkedis86

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/13/12
Posts: 90

3/24/13 6:10:59 AM#39

Character and npc textures need allot of work, and sometimes gives you some very comic monents.

 

The environment and feel is great, and raids are extremely fun. I have not had the opportunity to experience everything, and I really want to see what pvp can do. 

I just know though, balancing might be a HUGE issue.

 

I picked up bugs, stopping me fromn progressing, and I've personally logged about 6 in three hours, so you know, this is far from complete.

 

Overall the combat is fun, and responsive, so no complaints there.

Some npc's aren't voiced, but I assume this will be added later.

 

I think they took so long to develop this, that it already feels ancient in some respects, but it is fun nevertheless.

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

3/24/13 6:16:38 AM#40
Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by Elikal
 

A good post.  You hit on most of the critical flaws with this game.  The rooted system, potion system, and cumbersome UI really felt dated to me.  The fact that pressing ALT locks players into one camera position turned me off.  I wanted camera rotation.  I only got to level 6, but from what little i played, i just couldn't get into the movement restrictions.  Surprisingly though, i actually enjoyed the questing and story.

I actually liked looting with F, ala GW2, except in NW it's required to press it twice which gets annoying.

There is also zoom by pressing B, but once again, you're locked into camera position without freedom of camera rotation.

Yeah, this is why I find the game so frustrating. The content is pretty good, but the entire game engine and mechanics of the game feel clunky and very dated. It's such a sad mis-match, because the content developers obviously did the most they could be expected to do with in the confines of a pretty horrible engine.

I think there is a good chance I'll be playing this, at least for a bit, but just as a casual distraction and change of pace, definitely not something I will be putting any money into. If the content had been married with a better engine, better models, better animations, better class and combat mechanics, it might have been a pretty big hit.

I've been playing MMOs for over 14 years and it always sucks to see a title with a lot of positives get totally dragged down but the negatives.

My guess is that the (playable) content creation is Cryptic, but the engine, animations, character models, etc... come straight from the people who develop PWEs B-list F2P MMOs. I wouldn't say any of Cryptic's previous games have been cutting edge, to me they have all looked and felt a generation or so behind the competition, but Neverwinter really looks and feels like an MMO that might have been produced 6 - 8 years ago. (Actually, on the technical side, it reminds me most of a slightly updated Horizons).

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

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