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Neverwinter Forum » General Discussion » Rooted in place

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207 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 1:22:48 PM#61
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

No, that's the cleric that can use mace. shield, and plate ;)

 

On topic, I have suspicion that this "rooting" thing is not as big as it's being made out to be. 

 

 

depends on the player.. people said tsw combat/animations were perfectly fine during beta while many complained.. seen lots say they would play tsw again if they redid the animations and improve the feel of combat

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1071

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

3/09/13 2:38:47 PM#62
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

Oh, you wanted a MOVEAVBLE cleric.  Those are unavailable in game due to design and balance issues, and will not be available in the cash shop since offering such a thing would be stupid and would make the game pay to win, which is something that will be avoided at all costs.

 

There, fixed it for you.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

3/09/13 2:54:09 PM#63
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by muffins89
the only reason it feels odd is because there is no cast bar........most mmo's root you in place while casting.  

Actually most MMOs don't. The trend has been toward mobile abilities even if they have a "cast-time." Even WOW hast taken steps to move away from that static rooted feel with the new classes (e.g. monk) and making sure all the older classes have viable options for high mobility fights.

Neverwinter just feels really awkward in this respect. And it makes it even worse by not prioritizing moving over casting. In most other MMOs, you can cancel out of cast-time abilities by just moving. Here the priority seems to be to finish the cast.

I find this extemely annoying as well.

It does feel very awkward at first.  It has taken me time to adjust to it, but once I did it's not unfomfortable.  As I said above a less stuttery feel to the rooting would go a long way to making the combat feel more fluid.  That is the important part.

I wanted to point out though that the fluidity in hard tab-targeting combat (WoW, Rift, LotRO, EQ2, etc) is sort of pointless with regards to actual combat.  If a mob targets you in those games and launches an attack, it doesn't matter if you move beause the rng and combat will decide the outcome.

Greater combat movement has been added to those games for two reasons.  One it gives a static combat system a more action-oriented feel to it.  Second, and more likely the target reason, it allows them to design more intricate raids and group instances with ground effects.  They can use those skill timings and ground effects to balance effective healing output.

I used to do a lot of closed beta testing for Turbine with LotRO and they divided up their skill animations into 4 stages which could be individually timed.  These 4 timings along with the actual direct skill effect (heal, damage, buff/debuff) were used to manipulate skill effectiveness.  They could heavily influence how effective healing functioned just by adjusting some skill timings.

Little adjustments to the fluidity of combat in an action combat system have a much more dramatic impact on class and skill power than in the example above.  In the above system the caster will still take targeted damage when the mob skill fires.  In an action system the character could, in theory, take no damage and still have full skill output if they're able to kite too effectively.

You should definitely leave your feedback for them about this though.  There has been a long running debate on their forums over this issue and I think the more feedback they get the better.

Nice rational post. Good to see intelligence is alive and well in these forums after all :)

I will be sure to leave them feedback about this.

Cheers.

  Safo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/03
Posts: 47

3/09/13 3:04:23 PM#64

Was playing the Devoted Cleric all lastnight and the rooted casting didn't bother me in the least. 

Just because it's an 'actiony' game doesn't mean you have to be doing backflips and summersaults all over the screen while you fight... its not Vindictus ya know.

Seems perfectly rational to me to stand still and cast.

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

3/09/13 3:04:37 PM#65
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

Oh, you wanted a MOVEAVBLE cleric.  Those are unavailable in game due to design and balance issues, and will not be available in the cash shop since offering such a thing would be stupid and would make the game pay to win, which is something that will be avoided at all costs.

 

There, fixed it for you.

P2W huh??

I dont know enough about the effectiveness of these to judge right off the bat,  BUT...

When you can buy mass cure serious wounds scrolls (useable in PvP I guess, doesnt say you cant) off the cash shop, that doesnt sound too promising.

Don't know if that is enough to declare it P2W, but I wouldnt be surprised in the end.

 

  User Deleted
3/09/13 3:08:15 PM#66
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

Oh, you wanted a MOVEAVBLE cleric.  Those are unavailable in game due to design and balance issues, and will not be available in the cash shop since offering such a thing would be stupid and would make the game pay to win, which is something that will be avoided at all costs.

 

There, fixed it for you.

When has that ever stopped a game company? Seriously. When?

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7197

3/09/13 3:16:17 PM#67
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

No, that's the cleric that can use mace. shield, and plate ;)

 

On topic, I have suspicion that this "rooting" thing is not as big as it's being made out to be. 

 

 

depends on the player.. people said tsw combat/animations were perfectly fine during beta while many complained.. seen lots say they would play tsw again if they redid the animations and improve the feel of combat

 

I've seen a lot of people still enjoying the cobat, and many think there was never a issue . People did complain though :p

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/09/13 3:21:47 PM#68

I was looking forward to the game but I absolutely despise skills that force root me.

Too bad.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 3:24:23 PM#69
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

No, that's the cleric that can use mace. shield, and plate ;)

 

On topic, I have suspicion that this "rooting" thing is not as big as it's being made out to be. 

 

 

depends on the player.. people said tsw combat/animations were perfectly fine during beta while many complained.. seen lots say they would play tsw again if they redid the animations and improve the feel of combat

 

I've seen a lot of people still enjoying the cobat, and many think there was never a issue . People did complain though :p

only 20% seemed to really like them here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/377721/page/1 only out of 155 but still isn't encouraging.. animations and overall combat feel is one of the first impression a game gives on a person and if it feels off then the rest of the game will suffer as a result of this..  when you play a game with smooth fluid combat/animations it really steps up the overall enjoyment of combat and makes you want to keep on going and getting new abilities and seeing what else it has to offer. When the combat looks clunky and feels "off" it really puts an immediate damper on the game and for a f2p game like this it will hurt it even more so that TSW.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5450

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

3/09/13 3:24:56 PM#70
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

yeah being rooted is bullshit, TERA has the same problem. After playing GW2 i cant seem to tolerate being rooted anymore. Played Neverwinter yesterday for like 2 hours or more and didnt like that at all.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  bestever

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 604

3/09/13 3:35:39 PM#71
The rooting doesn't bug me one bit. Lvl 20 control wiz and I love it. The range is pretty far so the rooting means nothing really. Also I love the combat and the animations look great to me but thats my opinion. I like this combat over gw2 and tera any day and I love GW2's combat but neverwinters just feels more fluent, fast paced and is just plain fun.
  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1071

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

3/09/13 3:48:54 PM#72
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

Oh, you wanted a MOVEAVBLE cleric.  Those are unavailable in game due to design and balance issues, and will not be available in the cash shop since offering such a thing would be stupid and would make the game pay to win, which is something that will be avoided at all costs.

 

There, fixed it for you.

When has that ever stopped a game company? Seriously. When?

It has stopped a game company from adding in pay to win items on multiple occasions.  Aion, Guild Wars 2, Earth Eternal (now closed), Firefall, Team Fortress 2, and TERA, just to name a few, don't have pay to win items.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  goosie

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 69

3/09/13 7:56:38 PM#73

Rooting is not a problem for a game that is is combat oriented like your action MMORPGs. In fact, any game with a worthy combat system has rooting in place, because it's fundamentally part of risk vs reward balance. You have to be susceptible when you commit to an attack. The bigger the attack, the more rooting. Balanced.  

Games that have rooted combat and are worth their salt (not limited to MMOs):

Street Fighter series (or just about any 2D fighters that were/are tournament quality for that matter)

3D fighters: Virtua Fighter series, Soul Calibur, Virtual ON (prime example of how the first game was awesome because of rooting/commitment, and how it went downhill after they removed it.)

MMOs: Lineage 2, Vindictus, Tera, Blade & Soul

ARPGs: Diablo series, Torchlight 1&2,  Path of Exile

 

TL; DR: PEBKAC, rooting is fine.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 8:01:39 PM#74
after playing more another Issue I have with the rooting is lack of overall CC coupled with the sheer amount of enemies combined with how damn fast they move sometimes. You dodge once and they are on top of you in a second or less which makes dodging almost pointless unless you are doing it against a heavy attack. In group play it probably isn't such a big deal but when going solo it really is a pain and not much fun.. still sticking to melee for now ranged in this game just isn't for me

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3705

3/10/13 1:14:20 AM#75
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

I believe it's also a matter of balance. I can't even begin to imagine how many extra levels of OP would have the Control Wizard and the Devoted Cleric if they could just prance about as they shoot their spells around, both in PvE and PvP. Being a ranged class has many advantages, so being rooted for half a second when you cast a spell is a necessary balancing tradeoff. 

 

It's the same in most classic mmo's, where melee can move freely along the hit boxes of the enemies, while casters have to find someplace safe to stand and cast. I am personally playing a Devoted Cleric and I'm not having any issue with it, but that's my own taste anyway. And as if the Cleric wasn't overpowered already, I don't even want to imagine how ridiculously overpowered would be if I could move while casting.

If the developers need rooted combat to "balance" an MMO, they really have no business working in the genre.

Yeah, like in WoW casters can't move while casting since day one to present. In fact, one of the casting classes has a cooldown ability that allows them to cast while moving for a short time (shamans), so it's pretty clear that the rooting is used as a balancing factor.

 

But yeah, since WoW uses rooting while casting, that game really has no business in the genre. 

 

Oh wait.

 

You might want to try again with another argument.

Seems like you are as stuck in the past as developers who can't understand that rooted combat has become an archaic throwback to times best forgotten.

I stand by what I said. Rooted combat has no place in the current generation of MMOs and if balance is the excuse, they aren't very good developers.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

3/10/13 3:09:31 AM#76
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

I believe it's also a matter of balance. I can't even begin to imagine how many extra levels of OP would have the Control Wizard and the Devoted Cleric if they could just prance about as they shoot their spells around, both in PvE and PvP. Being a ranged class has many advantages, so being rooted for half a second when you cast a spell is a necessary balancing tradeoff. 

 

It's the same in most classic mmo's, where melee can move freely along the hit boxes of the enemies, while casters have to find someplace safe to stand and cast. I am personally playing a Devoted Cleric and I'm not having any issue with it, but that's my own taste anyway. And as if the Cleric wasn't overpowered already, I don't even want to imagine how ridiculously overpowered would be if I could move while casting.

If the developers need rooted combat to "balance" an MMO, they really have no business working in the genre.

Yeah, like in WoW casters can't move while casting since day one to present. In fact, one of the casting classes has a cooldown ability that allows them to cast while moving for a short time (shamans), so it's pretty clear that the rooting is used as a balancing factor.

 

But yeah, since WoW uses rooting while casting, that game really has no business in the genre. 

 

Oh wait.

 

You might want to try again with another argument.

Seems like you are as stuck in the past as developers who can't understand that rooted combat has become an archaic throwback to times best forgotten.

I stand by what I said. Rooted combat has no place in the current generation of MMOs and if balance is the excuse, they aren't very good developers.

Damn Fiontar, stop abusing the other posters.

EDIT:  Yes, if you support rooted combat, you are king Joffrey.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2723

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/10/13 3:24:20 AM#77
Originally posted by Zaltark

I downloaded and played today. Its true. I have a mage(like 98% of population), and YES if you auto attack or use a spell you literally cannot move your character any direction until the animation is done. Its like Tera, only 1000000% worse. Nothing near GW2. Tera is much smoother aswell.


(Its to the point Ive pretty much refused to continue the beta). Atleast in WoW you can move to cancel a spell animation. Not possible in this. Heck Id even have to say DDO is MUCH better in the way you can freely move and cast spells. This is like backwards.

I feel Tera is 10 times worse because they have a mix of self rooting and free casting.  Very hard to gauge when to use a skill and when not to.

 

If you don;t like it thats fine, but to have it like GW2 will take all the action out of the game and make it so ranged will rule yet another MMO.  It also makes kiting rediculously easy just like GW2.  Which is why mobs in GW2 and Tera have to have a gazillion hitpoints to hinder killing of champion level or BAM's solo.   In NWO, you can have rediculously hard mobs (Rhazzad) while keeping his hit points to a respectable level to not anger solo players.

 

Massive health does not equate to good boss fights.  Good judicious use of dodging, and movement while being able to take a boss down within a reasonable time frame is.

 

Imagine this, if you had free form non rooting effects every end boss would have to have a minimum of 50X its current health to even give the illusion of a boss fight, if not then kiting (and henceforth ranged) would be the preferred gamestyle just as it is in GW2.

 

You can have 2 different action modes, I like both but to be honest since ive been playing GW2 the last 6 months (exclusively) its nice to have a game with a different style but of the same concept.

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2723

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/10/13 3:27:58 AM#78
Originally posted by Aerowyn
after playing more another Issue I have with the rooting is lack of overall CC coupled with the sheer amount of enemies combined with how damn fast they move sometimes. You dodge once and they are on top of you in a second or less which makes dodging almost pointless unless you are doing it against a heavy attack. In group play it probably isn't such a big deal but when going solo it really is a pain and not much fun.. still sticking to melee for now ranged in this game just isn't for me

What class Aero?  Wizard does get better post 15 when you get access to the ground targetted freeze effect (if you place it in your tab bar).

 

For the most part though, Cleric is OP as F*** and can take a nice beating if you kit yourself right.  Still waiting to try the GWF (Great Weapon Fighter) since I always play a heavy armored 2H melee guy in MMO's but right now CLeric is making a strong push for my main.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2723

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/10/13 3:35:08 AM#79
Originally posted by Winelen

While the rooted combat I am not a fan of (but somehow is really fun), it is however not as clunky as Tera, and the animations are far quicker (unlike Tera I dont miss 90% of my attacks on a PvP target) making the rooted combat suck but not as bad as tera. I play Berserker in tera, and rogue in neverwinter mind you.

What actually turns me off to the game the most is the non open world, and how you just port from place to place..... To me it is just a very pretty hack and slash dungeon crawler...... 

As a melee class player I really enjoy jumping and strafing side to side while attacking, double tapping in a direction to dodge in an MMO just doesnt seem quite right to me.....

Player preference, nothing wrong with it but I personally disagree with this 100%.  First off the game is designed first and foremost as a hack and slash dungeon crawler.  It will never have the raiding or systems of a traditional MMO because you either become great at one thing or a jack of all trades (which if I might add, has been my biggest gripe with MMO's over the last 10 years)  Hate that an MMO trys to do to many things and fails at most of them.  Besides my first love in an MMO is Exploration and small group or solo dungeon crawling with near unlimited repalyability thanks to the Foundry system.  Secondly I do not mind movement in a traditional MMO, but I would prefer greatly the actual ability to actively dodge or move with a key press (ala GW2 or NWO).  Having to move and circle strafe and all that jazz does get boring especially when you combine it with an active combat system.  Its one of the things I am dreading about Elder Scrolls Online TBH.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  thark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1107

3/10/13 3:36:41 AM#80

Is there really no one that has seen the interview with Bill and Grakulen yesterday ? ...In that interview the dev gave the reason for "testing" the rooting in this game..

If they had no rooting the mages would dominate the battlefield with "KITING"...So..It's a balance issue !!!

On a more personal level, I like the fact that you would actually have to pay attention for a while(rooted in place), you should be able to cancel that attack however..

 

 

 

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