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Neverwinter Forum » General Discussion » Rooted in place

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207 posts found
  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1385

3/09/13 11:53:48 AM#41
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

yes it is dumb imho no matter how people want to defend it for balancing and such.. i hate "hard" rooting in action games as it feels horrible when combat is supposed to be fast paced.. the flow between spells feels off and just not fluid at all.. cleric honestly isn't horrible to me but i can't play the wizard.. i enjoy the melee(especially rogue) so ill just stick with melee classes in this game I guess

It's pretty tough to stomach the wizard at this point.  I quit TERA because of the animation lock and this is even worse.  I need to try a melee class maybe they will be better.

  revy66

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/10
Posts: 470

3/09/13 11:56:55 AM#42
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

yes it is dumb imho no matter how people want to defend it for balancing and such.. i hate "hard" rooting in action games as it feels horrible when combat is supposed to be fast paced.. the flow between spells feels off and just not fluid at all.. cleric honestly isn't horrible to me but i can't play the wizard.. i enjoy the melee(especially rogue) so ill just stick with melee classes in this game I guess

It's pretty tough to stomach the wizard at this point.  I quit TERA because of the animation lock and this is even worse.  I need to try a melee class maybe they will be better.

Animation lock is a prime feature of action combat. Anything else would be stupid. This is why TERA and other action games use it. Sounds like you don't like action combat.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 12:07:58 PM#43
Originally posted by revy66
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

yes it is dumb imho no matter how people want to defend it for balancing and such.. i hate "hard" rooting in action games as it feels horrible when combat is supposed to be fast paced.. the flow between spells feels off and just not fluid at all.. cleric honestly isn't horrible to me but i can't play the wizard.. i enjoy the melee(especially rogue) so ill just stick with melee classes in this game I guess

It's pretty tough to stomach the wizard at this point.  I quit TERA because of the animation lock and this is even worse.  I need to try a melee class maybe they will be better.

Animation lock is a prime feature of action combat. Anything else would be stupid. This is why TERA and other action games use it. Sounds like you don't like action combat.

play dmc, bayonetta, or any of those other action games. Yes they all have animation lock but they all have fast fluid transitions between those animations so the lock is hardly noticable.. i can't say the same for tera and nw as its very noticable and annoying to me in these games

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

3/09/13 12:11:44 PM#44
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

I'm not fond of the rooting myself but it's actually not that bad. It's a great deal better than Tera, but it isn't as fluid as GW2. I get why they did it though, I can only imagine a Warrior trying to chase down a mage that can teleport and run while casting. 

 

In any case though like I said, It's actually not that bad. While I wish my characters were more mobile it's a huge improvement over TERAs combat system so I can tolerate it. 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 12:14:05 PM#45
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

I'm not fond of the rooting myself but it's actually not that bad. It's a great deal better than Tera, but it isn't as fluid as GW2. I get why they did it though, I can only imagine a Warrior trying to chase down a mage that can teleport and run while casting. 

 

In any case though like I said, It's actually not that bad. While I wish my characters were more mobile it's a huge improvement over TERAs combat system so I can tolerate it. 

doesn't need to be running just a slow walk like vanguard does would do wonders imho

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

3/09/13 12:22:04 PM#46
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

I'm not fond of the rooting myself but it's actually not that bad. It's a great deal better than Tera, but it isn't as fluid as GW2. I get why they did it though, I can only imagine a Warrior trying to chase down a mage that can teleport and run while casting. 

 

In any case though like I said, It's actually not that bad. While I wish my characters were more mobile it's a huge improvement over TERAs combat system so I can tolerate it. 

doesn't need to be running just a slow walk like vanguard does would do wonders imho

I'd be fine with that as well. As long as they don't go more towards TERAs lock I'm fine lol. 

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1070

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

3/09/13 12:22:33 PM#47

People are complaining that you can't move while attacking like in other action MMOs, but if we were allowed to move while attacking, D&D purists would complain that you shouldn't be able to move while attacking since you can't move and attack at the same time in D&D.

It's one or the other folks.  We can't have it both ways, and either way some people will disagree with the decision.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5659

3/09/13 12:32:24 PM#48
Originally posted by MadDemon64

People are complaining that you can't move while attacking like in other action MMOs, but if we were allowed to move while attacking, D&D purists would complain that you shouldn't be able to move while attacking since you can't move and attack at the same time in D&D.

It's one or the other folks.  We can't have it both ways, and either way some people will disagree with the decision.

I don't think self-titled "D&D purists", which typically ends up being people who think 3.5ed is the only rule set, will be big fans of this game for a lot of reasons.  That group is going to be a hard win for Cryptic.

The root is there as one of the balance points so I understand why it's there.  Figuring out the timing of the game (mob attacks vs skill roots) helps a lot.

I do think they could make the roots softer like Tera or even TSW and GW2 and adjust mob difficulty accordingly.  I don't think that is as easy as people might make that sound though because that affects the power and efficiency of melee toughness, ranged damage, mob damage, etc.

The desire for less hard rooting is just my personal play style preference though.  With action oriented combat I enjoy a more "run-n-gun" and kitey (yep I made that word up) feel to combat.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 12:35:15 PM#49
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by MadDemon64

People are complaining that you can't move while attacking like in other action MMOs, but if we were allowed to move while attacking, D&D purists would complain that you shouldn't be able to move while attacking since you can't move and attack at the same time in D&D.

It's one or the other folks.  We can't have it both ways, and either way some people will disagree with the decision.

I don't think self-titled "D&D purists", which typically ends up being people who think 3.5ed is the only rule set, will be big fans of this game for a lot of reasons.  That group is going to be a hard win for Cryptic.

The root is there as one of the balance points so I understand why it's there.  Figuring out the timing of the game (mob attacks vs skill roots) helps a lot.

I do think they could make the roots softer like Tera or even TSW and GW2 and adjust mob difficulty accordingly.  I don't think that is as easy as people might make that sound though because that affects the power and efficiency of melee toughness, ranged damage, mob damage, etc.

The desire for less hard rooting is just my personal play style preference though.  With action oriented combat I enjoy a more "run-n-gun" and kitey (yep I made that word up) feel to combat.

same which is why i like games like dmc for that run and gun type play.. but even still you can add "movement" to make the transition between skills feel more fluid and not use the hard root as this game has.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

3/09/13 12:38:12 PM#50
Originally posted by Sovrath
Well, not to me but to each his/her own.

 It's like TERA all over again isn't it?

 

People instantly put action and bunny hopping circle strafing side by side when they are totally different things...

 

 

Wonder how many Action MMOs it will take before people stop being dissapointed because they though they could backpedal, circle strafe, bunny hop all day while casting.

  Winelen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 11

3/09/13 12:40:46 PM#51

While the rooted combat I am not a fan of (but somehow is really fun), it is however not as clunky as Tera, and the animations are far quicker (unlike Tera I dont miss 90% of my attacks on a PvP target) making the rooted combat suck but not as bad as tera. I play Berserker in tera, and rogue in neverwinter mind you.

What actually turns me off to the game the most is the non open world, and how you just port from place to place..... To me it is just a very pretty hack and slash dungeon crawler...... 

As a melee class player I really enjoy jumping and strafing side to side while attacking, double tapping in a direction to dodge in an MMO just doesnt seem quite right to me.....

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 12:46:49 PM#52
Originally posted by Winelen

While the rooted combat I am not a fan of (but somehow is really fun), it is however not as clunky as Tera, and the animations are far quicker (unlike Tera I dont miss 90% of my attacks on a PvP target) making the rooted combat suck but not as bad as tera. I play Berserker in tera, and rogue in neverwinter mind you.

What actually turns me off to the game the most is the non open world, and how you just port from place to place..... To me it is just a very pretty hack and slash dungeon crawler...... 

As a melee class player I really enjoy jumping and strafing side to side while attacking, double tapping in a direction to dodge in an MMO just doesnt seem quite right to me.....

which is what the game is.. but that's what i was expecting so not dissapointed in this aspect.. i knew it was more of a 3d diablo type dungeon crawler with some larger open zones thrown in

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5659

3/09/13 12:51:31 PM#53
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by muffins89
the only reason it feels odd is because there is no cast bar........most mmo's root you in place while casting.  

Actually most MMOs don't. The trend has been toward mobile abilities even if they have a "cast-time." Even WOW hast taken steps to move away from that static rooted feel with the new classes (e.g. monk) and making sure all the older classes have viable options for high mobility fights.

Neverwinter just feels really awkward in this respect. And it makes it even worse by not prioritizing moving over casting. In most other MMOs, you can cancel out of cast-time abilities by just moving. Here the priority seems to be to finish the cast.

I find this extemely annoying as well.

It does feel very awkward at first.  It has taken me time to adjust to it, but once I did it's not unfomfortable.  As I said above a less stuttery feel to the rooting would go a long way to making the combat feel more fluid.  That is the important part.

I wanted to point out though that the fluidity in hard tab-targeting combat (WoW, Rift, LotRO, EQ2, etc) is sort of pointless with regards to actual combat.  If a mob targets you in those games and launches an attack, it doesn't matter if you move beause the rng and combat will decide the outcome.

Greater combat movement has been added to those games for two reasons.  One it gives a static combat system a more action-oriented feel to it.  Second, and more likely the target reason, it allows them to design more intricate raids and group instances with ground effects.  They can use those skill timings and ground effects to balance effective healing output.

I used to do a lot of closed beta testing for Turbine with LotRO and they divided up their skill animations into 4 stages which could be individually timed.  These 4 timings along with the actual direct skill effect (heal, damage, buff/debuff) were used to manipulate skill effectiveness.  They could heavily influence how effective healing functioned just by adjusting some skill timings.

Little adjustments to the fluidity of combat in an action combat system have a much more dramatic impact on class and skill power than in the example above.  In the above system the caster will still take targeted damage when the mob skill fires.  In an action system the character could, in theory, take no damage and still have full skill output if they're able to kite too effectively.

You should definitely leave your feedback for them about this though.  There has been a long running debate on their forums over this issue and I think the more feedback they get the better.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Winelen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 11

3/09/13 12:53:31 PM#54

  User Deleted
3/09/13 12:53:49 PM#55
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.
  Winelen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 11

3/09/13 12:54:46 PM#56
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Winelen

While the rooted combat I am not a fan of (but somehow is really fun), it is however not as clunky as Tera, and the animations are far quicker (unlike Tera I dont miss 90% of my attacks on a PvP target) making the rooted combat suck but not as bad as tera. I play Berserker in tera, and rogue in neverwinter mind you.

What actually turns me off to the game the most is the non open world, and how you just port from place to place..... To me it is just a very pretty hack and slash dungeon crawler...... 

As a melee class player I really enjoy jumping and strafing side to side while attacking, double tapping in a direction to dodge in an MMO just doesnt seem quite right to me.....

which is what the game is.. but that's what i was expecting so not dissapointed in this aspect.. i knew it was more of a 3d diablo type dungeon crawler with some larger open zones thrown in

Touche, as much as I read about the game I just assumed (like a fool) that it would be your typical MMORPG. While I hate diablo with a passion I thoroughly enjoy this game, just sad i cant travel around an open world with some friends and explore.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5659

3/09/13 12:55:40 PM#57
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

Unfortunately you cannot.  But thank you for your deeply thought provoking contribution to the discussion.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  User Deleted
3/09/13 12:58:17 PM#58
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

Unfortunately you cannot.  But thank you for your deeply thought provoking contribution to the discussion.

Give it a few months. After all, we're talking Cryptic and Perfect World here.

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

3/09/13 1:07:35 PM#59
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I saw. Cleric video and the player was complaining thatwith every spell he casted, he w unable to move and rooted on the spot.  That sounds just plain stupid for an action based combat system, doesnt it?

 

After many hours in GW2, being pinned down to one spot while you use your abilities just sucks.

It seems like a step backwards IMO.

What reason would they have for making the game this way? 

Also, after reaching level 10, I can safely say my left mouse button is of a high quality.  70% LMB, an occasional use of shift.....use abilities for spiffy animations and extra damage.

Nice work Cryptic, you recieve one of the greatest RPG series of all time, and this is what you did with it.

There is fun to be had for sure.  The type of fun one can have while playing in a kiddie pool.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7187

3/09/13 1:18:40 PM#60
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Oh, you wanted a MOVEABLE cleric. Those are available in the cash shop.

No, that's the cleric that can use mace. shield, and plate ;)

 

On topic, I have suspicion that this "rooting" thing is not as big as it's being made out to be. 

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

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