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Neverwinter Forum » General Discussion » Rooted in place

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207 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/08/13 9:53:11 PM#21
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

I believe it's also a matter of balance. I can't even begin to imagine how many extra levels of OP would have the Control Wizard and the Devoted Cleric if they could just prance about as they shoot their spells around, both in PvE and PvP. Being a ranged class has many advantages, so being rooted for half a second when you cast a spell is a necessary balancing tradeoff. 

 

It's the same in most classic mmo's, where melee can move freely along the hit boxes of the enemies, while casters have to find someplace safe to stand and cast. I am personally playing a Devoted Cleric and I'm not having any issue with it, but that's my own taste anyway. And as if the Cleric wasn't overpowered already, I don't even want to imagine how ridiculously overpowered would be if I could move while casting.

If the developers need rooted combat to "balance" an MMO, they really have no business working in the genre.

Yeah, like in WoW casters can't move while casting since day one to present. In fact, one of the casting classes has a cooldown ability that allows them to cast while moving for a short time (shamans), so it's pretty clear that the rooting is used as a balancing factor.

 

But yeah, since WoW uses rooting while casting, that game really has no business in the genre. 

 

Oh wait.

 

You might want to try again with another argument.

wow isn't action combat though.. and using what I suggested above don't think balance would be a big issue anyway

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 472

3/08/13 10:03:21 PM#22
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

I believe it's also a matter of balance. I can't even begin to imagine how many extra levels of OP would have the Control Wizard and the Devoted Cleric if they could just prance about as they shoot their spells around, both in PvE and PvP. Being a ranged class has many advantages, so being rooted for half a second when you cast a spell is a necessary balancing tradeoff. 

 

It's the same in most classic mmo's, where melee can move freely along the hit boxes of the enemies, while casters have to find someplace safe to stand and cast. I am personally playing a Devoted Cleric and I'm not having any issue with it, but that's my own taste anyway. And as if the Cleric wasn't overpowered already, I don't even want to imagine how ridiculously overpowered would be if I could move while casting.

If the developers need rooted combat to "balance" an MMO, they really have no business working in the genre.

Yeah, like in WoW casters can't move while casting since day one to present. In fact, one of the casting classes has a cooldown ability that allows them to cast while moving for a short time (shamans), so it's pretty clear that the rooting is used as a balancing factor.

 

But yeah, since WoW uses rooting while casting, that game really has no business in the genre. 

 

Oh wait.

 

You might want to try again with another argument.

wow isn't action combat though.. and using what I suggested above don't think balance would be a big issue anyway

I think DDO uses a slow-down rather than rooting, can't remember well now, it's been a few yeras since I played it. It could be an option, but I still haven't found the Devoted Cleric any annoyance to play. It's pretty intuitive and you soon learn to calculate distances and what kind of stalling you can afford before you need to dodge.

 

I'll give you another example. I recently finished the new Tomb Raider (incredibly good game, by the way) and with your main weapon, the bow, you can do a charged attack that does around triple damage and can pass through armor. The downside? It roots you. Why? Because it balances out the power of the ability. Now Tomb Raider is a full out action game, so why would such an action game resort to rooting you while using certain abilities? Again, balance.

 

We could argue whether the balance can be achieved in other ways. I personally haven't found grievance in NWO's soft rooting (I say soft because it's really half a second per cast, nothing like the 3-4 second root of some abilities in TERA).

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/08/13 10:07:48 PM#23
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

I believe it's also a matter of balance. I can't even begin to imagine how many extra levels of OP would have the Control Wizard and the Devoted Cleric if they could just prance about as they shoot their spells around, both in PvE and PvP. Being a ranged class has many advantages, so being rooted for half a second when you cast a spell is a necessary balancing tradeoff. 

 

It's the same in most classic mmo's, where melee can move freely along the hit boxes of the enemies, while casters have to find someplace safe to stand and cast. I am personally playing a Devoted Cleric and I'm not having any issue with it, but that's my own taste anyway. And as if the Cleric wasn't overpowered already, I don't even want to imagine how ridiculously overpowered would be if I could move while casting.

If the developers need rooted combat to "balance" an MMO, they really have no business working in the genre.

Yeah, like in WoW casters can't move while casting since day one to present. In fact, one of the casting classes has a cooldown ability that allows them to cast while moving for a short time (shamans), so it's pretty clear that the rooting is used as a balancing factor.

 

But yeah, since WoW uses rooting while casting, that game really has no business in the genre. 

 

Oh wait.

 

You might want to try again with another argument.

wow isn't action combat though.. and using what I suggested above don't think balance would be a big issue anyway

I think DDO uses a slow-down rather than rooting, can't remember well now, it's been a few yeras since I played it. It could be an option, but I still haven't found the Devoted Cleric any annoyance to play. It's pretty intuitive and you soon learn to calculate distances and what kind of stalling you can afford before you need to dodge.

 

I'll give you another example. I recently finished the new Tomb Raider (incredibly good game, by the way) and with your main weapon, the bow, you can do a charged attack that does around triple damage and can pass through armor. The downside? It roots you. Why? Because it balances out the power of the ability. Now Tomb Raider is a full out action game, so why would such an action game resort to rooting you while using certain abilities? Again, balance.

 

We could argue whether the balance can be achieved in other ways. I personally haven't found grievance in NWO's soft rooting.

but again in games like tomb raider(which im playing now btw), or games like dmc or bayonetta yes they all root but there is a fast fluid motion between dodges and attacks and sequential attack animations.. in games like neverwinter and tera there is a noticable delay between the attack, move, and stop animation so the fluid feel of combat is not there like other action games.. might not bother everyone obviously but for me it kills the fun of ranged classes.. luckily rogue combat flows much better for me and I enjoy it in this game.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 472

3/08/13 10:17:02 PM#24
I don't know. Might be just that I don't mind the rooting. I still think one of the best games of all time is Resident Evil 1 and 2, in which you are basically a mobile turret that needs to stand still two seconds to do anything, from picking an ink cartridge to shooting a 9mm pistol. :P

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/08/13 10:18:51 PM#25
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
I don't know. Might be just that I don't mind the rooting. I still think one of the best games of all time is Resident Evil 1 and 2, in which you are basically a mobile turret that needs to stand still two seconds to do anything, from picking an ink cartridge to shooting a 9mm pistol. :P

lol yea and i found that rooting aspect of the early RE games by far the worst part of them:P it's obviously all personal preference same as how some people hate tsw animations and feel and others say its perfectly fine.. 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  k61977

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 110

3/08/13 10:27:44 PM#26

Mages and Clerics should be rooted in this game it is based off of D&D.  A mage is suppose to have to concentrate on the spells they are casting.  This is not an shooter. 

That said I can see them remove the rooting if they cut all your damage by half.  Should not be able to nuke something down before it can get close to you.  That is why games that don't root have a very off balance class player pool.  If I can cast and kill you before you get close why would I play anything else.

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1303

3/08/13 10:29:42 PM#27
I finally got to play neverwinter today and played for about two hours and just havent had the desire to log back in. While melee may feel actiony , its not very fluid and feels kinda clunky , like when you block an attack and you hit your attack to soon it doesnt register at all and you have to hit it again. Its ashame that they rooted people in place for some skills the ability to be mobile in all forms of attacks makes games much more fun. This will still be about the best game ive played to release directly as a free to play game though , so I cannot really complain but Im really glad I didnt buy any founders packs because I dont see myself playing it much at all with the way combat currently is. I guess GW2 also just spoiled me because this combat is kinda slow and clunky here. Hopefully they polish it before offical release and make it a great game because the scenery and story seemed done very well.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/08/13 10:31:52 PM#28
Originally posted by k61977

Mages and Clerics should be rooted in this game it is based off of D&D.  A mage is suppose to have to concentrate on the spells they are casting.  This is not an shooter. 

That said I can see them remove the rooting if they cut all your damage by half.  Should not be able to nuke something down before it can get close to you.  That is why games that don't root have a very off balance class player pool.  If I can cast and kill you before you get close why would I play anything else.

if you could run and cast i could see it being an issue but if they just allowed slow walking/pack peddling while casting/channeling i don't see this being an issue at all..  it also shouldn't be that hard to balance games with on the run ranged classes played numerous games that do it without many issues at all

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/08/13 10:33:07 PM#29
Originally posted by cronius77
I finally got to play neverwinter today and played for about two hours and just havent had the desire to log back in. While melee may feel actiony , its not very fluid and feels kinda clunky , like when you block an attack and you hit your attack to soon it doesnt register at all and you have to hit it again. Its ashame that they rooted people in place for some skills the ability to be mobile in all forms of attacks makes games much more fun. This will still be about the best game ive played to release directly as a free to play game though , so I cannot really complain but Im really glad I didnt buy any founders packs because I dont see myself playing it much at all with the way combat currently is. I guess GW2 also just spoiled me because this combat is kinda slow and clunky here. Hopefully they polish it before offical release and make it a great game because the scenery and story seemed done very well.

you try a rogue? i found them to be pretty fluid overall when moving and going between attacks.. the other classes not so mch..

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1303

3/08/13 10:39:30 PM#30
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by cronius77
I finally got to play neverwinter today and played for about two hours and just havent had the desire to log back in. While melee may feel actiony , its not very fluid and feels kinda clunky , like when you block an attack and you hit your attack to soon it doesnt register at all and you have to hit it again. Its ashame that they rooted people in place for some skills the ability to be mobile in all forms of attacks makes games much more fun. This will still be about the best game ive played to release directly as a free to play game though , so I cannot really complain but Im really glad I didnt buy any founders packs because I dont see myself playing it much at all with the way combat currently is. I guess GW2 also just spoiled me because this combat is kinda slow and clunky here. Hopefully they polish it before offical release and make it a great game because the scenery and story seemed done very well.

you try a rogue? i found them to be pretty fluid overall when moving and going between attacks.. the other classes not so mch..

not yet Ill play more tomorrow though and see how it goes , Im playing SimCity tonight and kinda got addicted to it. Yeah my main issue is polish so thats why I said the rest of the game seems fine and looks pretty decent . I played all the old school rpgs like ruins of mythi drannor ,neverwinter nights , Icewind dale, baulders gate etc . Neverwinter felt like they did a good job of the story and the threats around the city. I hope and prey myth drannor is in the game as a huge multple level dungeon later on down the road , that was an awesome old school dungeon crawl.

But yeah ill give more classes a try tomorrow and see how polished they are but I love playing tanks really and manual blocking in this game is horrible in its current state so I really hope they polish up the animations and fix the skill timing so when you block you can attack etc.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1758

3/08/13 10:39:59 PM#31

I think it's just an issue of adapting to their combat.  It's definitely weird to go from games like GW2, and Tera and their movement heavy combat to something like this, but then again I also just recently started playing Lotro again (lifer) and of course pretty much every move keeps you rooted.  Yes Lotro is not action based combat, but it still reminded me that their are several ways to do combat systems in a game. 

The only class I have tried so far in Neverwinter is guardian fighter and at least I can move while blocking with my shield so,..at least not everything roots you.  So glass have empty or half full? 

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/08/13 10:43:17 PM#32
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by cronius77
I finally got to play neverwinter today and played for about two hours and just havent had the desire to log back in. While melee may feel actiony , its not very fluid and feels kinda clunky , like when you block an attack and you hit your attack to soon it doesnt register at all and you have to hit it again. Its ashame that they rooted people in place for some skills the ability to be mobile in all forms of attacks makes games much more fun. This will still be about the best game ive played to release directly as a free to play game though , so I cannot really complain but Im really glad I didnt buy any founders packs because I dont see myself playing it much at all with the way combat currently is. I guess GW2 also just spoiled me because this combat is kinda slow and clunky here. Hopefully they polish it before offical release and make it a great game because the scenery and story seemed done very well.

you try a rogue? i found them to be pretty fluid overall when moving and going between attacks.. the other classes not so mch..

not yet Ill play more tomorrow though and see how it goes , Im playing SimCity tonight and kinda got addicted to it. Yeah my main issue is polish so thats why I said the rest of the game seems fine and looks pretty decent . I played all the old school rpgs like ruins of mythi drannor ,neverwinter nights , Icewind dale, baulders gate etc . Neverwinter felt like they did a good job of the story and the threats around the city. I hope and prey myth drannor is in the game as a huge multple level dungeon later on down the road , that was an awesome old school dungeon crawl.

But yeah ill give more classes a try tomorrow and see how polished they are but I love playing tanks really and manual blocking in this game is horrible in its current state so I really hope they polish up the animations and fix the skill timing so when you block you can attack etc.

yea not a big fan of the blocking feel overall either.. honestly only class that is keeping me playing  is rogue heh

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1303

3/08/13 10:51:25 PM#33
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by cronius77
I finally got to play neverwinter today and played for about two hours and just havent had the desire to log back in. While melee may feel actiony , its not very fluid and feels kinda clunky , like when you block an attack and you hit your attack to soon it doesnt register at all and you have to hit it again. Its ashame that they rooted people in place for some skills the ability to be mobile in all forms of attacks makes games much more fun. This will still be about the best game ive played to release directly as a free to play game though , so I cannot really complain but Im really glad I didnt buy any founders packs because I dont see myself playing it much at all with the way combat currently is. I guess GW2 also just spoiled me because this combat is kinda slow and clunky here. Hopefully they polish it before offical release and make it a great game because the scenery and story seemed done very well.

you try a rogue? i found them to be pretty fluid overall when moving and going between attacks.. the other classes not so mch..

not yet Ill play more tomorrow though and see how it goes , Im playing SimCity tonight and kinda got addicted to it. Yeah my main issue is polish so thats why I said the rest of the game seems fine and looks pretty decent . I played all the old school rpgs like ruins of mythi drannor ,neverwinter nights , Icewind dale, baulders gate etc . Neverwinter felt like they did a good job of the story and the threats around the city. I hope and prey myth drannor is in the game as a huge multple level dungeon later on down the road , that was an awesome old school dungeon crawl.

But yeah ill give more classes a try tomorrow and see how polished they are but I love playing tanks really and manual blocking in this game is horrible in its current state so I really hope they polish up the animations and fix the skill timing so when you block you can attack etc.

yea not a big fan of the blocking feel overall either.. honestly only class that is keeping me playing  is rogue heh

yeah my thing is i get bored very easily if i cannot play a tankish class. GW2 about killed me with not having a true tank class but I still was able to build up my warrior tanky and got used to the dodge button and swapping to ranged. Its just like Tera , I hate ALL the classes but the lancer so im kinda weird I guess. They gotta get that block working before ill end up staying for sure , I did love using the charge over and over in the middle of combat with no minimal range though , that was great on boss fights in the dungeons.

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  3/09/13 1:09:35 AM#34
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ranncore

I like it a lot better than seeing pepole jump/swing/spin at the same time. 

 

lrn2dodge

you could still allow slow movement and not allow jumping.. maybe cut movement speed by 50-75% while casting/channeling spells.. would do wonders imho.. 

This is what they did in Vnaguard, and it worked out great, strange that no other game ever copied that . It lets your character feel the burden of casting but still makes it feel more natural.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

3/09/13 2:08:23 AM#35

You can dodge- and shield-cancel your attacks. As a fighter, I do this constantly. I find it far more strategic than GW2's style of moving anywhere anytime.

Think about it. If you're swinging a sword, you're swinging it with your entire body, not just one arm. On ranged classes, I can understand the complaint, but their explanation was that if they allowed you to move, they would have had to make ranged enemies attack faster to compensate. It would have ended up like GW2 where ranged attacks are generally unavoidable.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

3/09/13 2:32:36 AM#36
the only reason it feels odd is because there is no cast bar........most mmo's root you in place while casting.  

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/09/13 10:31:10 AM#37
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ranncore

I like it a lot better than seeing pepole jump/swing/spin at the same time. 

 

lrn2dodge

you could still allow slow movement and not allow jumping.. maybe cut movement speed by 50-75% while casting/channeling spells.. would do wonders imho.. 

This is what they did in Vnaguard, and it worked out great, strange that no other game ever copied that . It lets your character feel the burden of casting but still makes it feel more natural.

yup good example and it works just fine in that game

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3801

3/09/13 10:43:26 AM#38
Originally posted by muffins89
the only reason it feels odd is because there is no cast bar........most mmo's root you in place while casting.  

Actually most MMOs don't. The trend has been toward mobile abilities even if they have a "cast-time." Even WOW hast taken steps to move away from that static rooted feel with the new classes (e.g. monk) and making sure all the older classes have viable options for high mobility fights.

Neverwinter just feels really awkward in this respect. And it makes it even worse by not prioritizing moving over casting. In most other MMOs, you can cancel out of cast-time abilities by just moving. Here the priority seems to be to finish the cast.

I find this extemely annoying as well.

  Shaigh

Elite Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 280

3/09/13 10:56:43 AM#39
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ranncore

I like it a lot better than seeing pepole jump/swing/spin at the same time. 

 

lrn2dodge

you could still allow slow movement and not allow jumping.. maybe cut movement speed by 50-75% while casting/channeling spells.. would do wonders imho.. 

This is what they did in Vnaguard, and it worked out great, strange that no other game ever copied that . It lets your character feel the burden of casting but still makes it feel more natural.

yup good example and it works just fine in that game

Slowing down movement speed would do nothing since your attacks are instant. Also, if you wouldn't be rooted you would easily avoid all melee attacks because they are telegraphed. You can still time your attacks so that you don't get stuck rooted when stronger mobs start their channeled attacks, but this is impossible if you just spam attacks.

 

This game is already fairly easy, without rooting it would become a joke because you would be able to kite everything to death. 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3801

3/09/13 11:50:26 AM#40
Originally posted by Shaigh
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ranncore

I like it a lot better than seeing pepole jump/swing/spin at the same time. 

 

lrn2dodge

you could still allow slow movement and not allow jumping.. maybe cut movement speed by 50-75% while casting/channeling spells.. would do wonders imho.. 

This is what they did in Vnaguard, and it worked out great, strange that no other game ever copied that . It lets your character feel the burden of casting but still makes it feel more natural.

yup good example and it works just fine in that game

Slowing down movement speed would do nothing since your attacks are instant. Also, if you wouldn't be rooted you would easily avoid all melee attacks because they are telegraphed. You can still time your attacks so that you don't get stuck rooted when stronger mobs start their channeled attacks, but this is impossible if you just spam attacks.

 

This game is already fairly easy, without rooting it would become a joke because you would be able to kite everything to death. 

It has nothing to do with easy or hard. It could be balanced either way. What it has to do with is the alien, awkward feel combat here has, at least for those of us who play several MMOs or at least sample the new ones. I guess those who don't know any better could think it's OK...shrug.

This system is going against the trend... and although some may say "good for them, they're being unique and not just another WOW clone" I'll just say that unique, new and different are all neutral terms-- things can be uniquely good or uniquely bad. This system just feels wrong.

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