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Neverwinter Forum » General Discussion » So is this a 3D Diablo?

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28 posts found
  Crunchy222

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/12
Posts: 390

 
OP  3/02/13 11:38:06 PM#1

Just curious for those who are founders ect.

 

Hows the beta going?  Is this the 3D ARPG as some have suggested?  If so hows the itemization, hows the combat...does this feel like a game that can last?

 

Or is this something different all together?

 

Also...any info on the cash shop?  Anything that strikes you as an easy sell if there isnt a running shop up yet.  This to me is kind of important given its a free game.  I really dont trust PWI's style of cash shop and they are really the only reason i didnt suck it up and pay to beta test this...other than it being a new trend i despise.

  Abloec

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/09/04
Posts: 318

3/03/13 6:05:18 AM#2

If I was to describe the game id say its Tera, mixed w/ GW2, and a little of Diablo.

 

For the founders its only beta weekends man, we had 1 weekend. There will be another this upcoming weekend. The itemization is lack luster currently but we only have access to the first 30 levels. The combat is great at least to me. I played all the classes up to lvl 20 and never got bored. I believe the game has the chance of lasting, I am not going to straight out lie and say it will. We never know until it happens. The Foundry has the ability to allow this game to thrive, and if PW/Cryptic are good on releasing updates and so on.

 

So far w/ the cash shop I have to say that its iffy. If you are looking at a founder's pack for the astral diamonds I would say hold off till the beginning of next weekend. You can prepare and download the client and stuff so you can hop in as soon as you make up your mind. Reason I cannot tell you if the cash shop is worth it yet is because they have not... lets say determined the value of astral diamonds.

 

If you feel like it, you can check out my strream's past broadcasts. I have around probably 40 hours of NW gameplay on there.

 

www.twitch.tv/abloec


Damnant quod non intellegunt

  HorrorScope

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

3/03/13 12:44:42 PM#3
I'll be beta'ing this upcoming week, but that is what it looks like.
  Shana77

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/07
Posts: 182

3/03/13 12:49:02 PM#4

I've only played one beta weekend but yeah, I would say so. In that light it is a fantastic achievement, for all the hype that Diablo and similar games enjoy, they are really low tech products, with only 4 person multiplayer, top down perspective, limited character customization, etc. 

 

From a pure gameplay perspective Neverwinter is what could have been Diablo if they made it a fully 3d mmo. There are some differences though. We don't know yet if the looting system will be as deep. Instead of random dungeons there will be player created dungeons (even better!) and finally there is no point and click gameplay (another plus for me as i get RSI from that). 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/03/13 12:55:10 PM#5
it is in a way... game is a dungeon crawler from what I have seen but has larger areas as well.. combat is reminiscent to diablo 3 in a way but i enjoy it a lot more than I did combat in diablo 3... 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Crunchy222

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/12
Posts: 390

 
OP  3/04/13 11:34:54 PM#6
Originally posted by Aerowyn
it is in a way... game is a dungeon crawler from what I have seen but has larger areas as well.. combat is reminiscent to diablo 3 in a way but i enjoy it a lot more than I did combat in diablo 3... 

You have to like and understand ARPG games to even have a fraction of appreciation for their combat, D3 included.  I like it because well...i liked it ages ago when point to move and point to attack was acceptable.  Nostalgia i guess.  I would never compare a true ARPG to a mmorpg, however my point was beyond combat. true APRPG combat is more about a massive and chaotic battle with a screen full of mobs and more a visual thing than a mechanical, something vastly different from most mmorpgs where you watch hotbars most of the time.

I can clearly see this game has action based combat, not diablo style arpg combat. 

 

I appeciate the reponses.  Wasnt aware they were just doing weekends and restricted testing.  IMO would be impossible to tell if the game follows the same type of loot and dungeon crawling mechanics of an ARPG only with action combat.

 

 

One thing perhaps you guys can explain for me however.  Does the game toss hordes of mobs at you while you stomp them all in a glorious and chaotic full screen battle...something that the ARPG's, or at least the good ones do so well...or is it presented mmorpg style where you have controlled and small encounters with mobs.

I dont think the game would ever be considerd an ARPG type game without this. 

 

Really i dont care if its not an ARPG, if its just a dungeon crawling RPG with action combat.  However i think the thought of a game like this with ARPG qualities is something...well that hasnt been done...which is why i started this thread.

The rest, as far as itemization and how the endgame works, obviously wont be known for a while.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4322

3/04/13 11:50:20 PM#7

I think this is one of those games that sits right on the edge. So many ppl are in the wait and see " box" if the game is good and launches with positive reviews the game will be huge. If it launches early or they go half ass fix it later it's going to crash and burn.

I hope the devs know this and don't do something stupid.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  r3dl4nce

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 120

3/05/13 5:25:26 AM#8

Neverwinter Online is a typical MMORPG theme park WoW-clone, linear questing, very low character customization (just a passive skill tree which splits at a certain level in 3 paths), a low graphic, fixed classes roles (tank: guardian fighter; dps: rogue-great weapon fighter; healer: cleric; dps ranged/cc: wizard) with fixed equipment, with an "action combat" so bad designed that lot of time you try to avoid an hit, you are out of the range of the hit and you are hit the same. Ah, some rogue skills have autotarget and autofacing...

The lore is something based on Forgotten Realms lore. This is the only D&D feeling you'll get from the game. Names of places and skills.

Oh, and the Foundry. Another game from Cryptic had the Foundry, Star Trek Online... it's a great success of a MMORPG, uh? 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/05/13 5:40:13 AM#9
Originally posted by Crunchy222
Originally posted by Aerowyn
it is in a way... game is a dungeon crawler from what I have seen but has larger areas as well.. combat is reminiscent to diablo 3 in a way but i enjoy it a lot more than I did combat in diablo 3... 

You have to like and understand ARPG games to even have a fraction of appreciation for their combat, D3 included.  I like it because well...i liked it ages ago when point to move and point to attack was acceptable.  Nostalgia i guess.  I would never compare a true ARPG to a mmorpg, however my point was beyond combat. true APRPG combat is more about a massive and chaotic battle with a screen full of mobs and more a visual thing than a mechanical, something vastly different from most mmorpgs where you watch hotbars most of the time.

I can clearly see this game has action based combat, not diablo style arpg combat. 

 

I appeciate the reponses.  Wasnt aware they were just doing weekends and restricted testing.  IMO would be impossible to tell if the game follows the same type of loot and dungeon crawling mechanics of an ARPG only with action combat.

 

 

One thing perhaps you guys can explain for me however.  Does the game toss hordes of mobs at you while you stomp them all in a glorious and chaotic full screen battle...something that the ARPG's, or at least the good ones do so well...or is it presented mmorpg style where you have controlled and small encounters with mobs.

I dont think the game would ever be considerd an ARPG type game without this. 

 

Really i dont care if its not an ARPG, if its just a dungeon crawling RPG with action combat.  However i think the thought of a game like this with ARPG qualities is something...well that hasnt been done...which is why i started this thread.

The rest, as far as itemization and how the endgame works, obviously wont be known for a while.

from what i have played yes yes it does

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  jdnyc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 1729

3/06/13 12:17:46 AM#10
Diablo+Tera+DDO
  r3dl4nce

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 120

3/06/13 8:53:49 AM#11
Originally posted by jdnyc
Diablo+Tera+DDO

Sadly, Neverwinter has nothing to do with DDO. Better Diablo+Tera+WoWclone

  jdnyc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 1729

3/06/13 12:01:47 PM#12
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
Originally posted by jdnyc
Diablo+Tera+DDO

Sadly, Neverwinter has nothing to do with DDO. Better Diablo+Tera+WoWclone

I disagree.  The game is heavily instanced.  It has towns that everyone can join in.  It has outland areas that you run into other players as well.  The dungeons are tied to quests and are instanced for your party.  This is exactly like DDO.  But let's go further.  There are traps that you need to discover and disable like DDO.  Better combat implementation than DDO (where the Tera reference comes from.)  

Quests are heavily story focused in the world of Forgotten Realms.  Great care was taken to be true to the lore.  You have Gods and backgrounds that you pick for your characters.  There are skills that you can learn that will can open secret passages or hidden loot.  Then there's the whole Foundry system.

Neverwinter is no way even close to being a WoWclone. 

 

 

  r3dl4nce

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 120

3/06/13 12:14:09 PM#13
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
Originally posted by jdnyc
Diablo+Tera+DDO

Sadly, Neverwinter has nothing to do with DDO. Better Diablo+Tera+WoWclone

I disagree.  The game is heavily instanced.  It has towns that everyone can join in.  It has outland areas that you run into other players as well.  The dungeons are tied to quests and are instanced for your party.  This is exactly like DDO.  But let's go further.  There are traps that you need to discover and disable like DDO.  Better combat implementation than DDO (where the Tera reference comes from.)  

Quests are heavily story focused in the world of Forgotten Realms.  Great care was taken to be true to the lore.  You have Gods and backgrounds that you pick for your characters.  There are skills that you can learn that will can open secret passages or hidden loot.  Then there's the whole Foundry system.

Neverwinter is no way even close to being a WoWclone. 

 

 

 

So let's see what Neverwinter DOES NOT HAVE from DDO:

- multiclass

- totally customizable classes, with stats, feat, skills, spells, totally customizable by the player

- equip not tied to a class (in DDO there is no "Required class: xxx" on the equip) but every class can use every item, with some malus or taking the right feats

- classes withoput fixed roles, in DDO you can have a tanking wizard, a dps cleric, an healer bard and so on

- combat that will NEVER root your character on the ground (in Neverwinter, lot of ranged skill will root your character in place)

 

Now, let's see about these features, what WoW have:

- no multiclass (like Neverwinter)

- very low customization, just a passive skill tree (just like the paragon/heroic trees in Neverwinter)

- equip tied to a class (just like in Neverwinter)

- classes with fixed roles

- lot of skills root your character in placewaiting for animation to finish, just like Neverwinter

 

Neverwinter is just like WoW with Forgotten Realms lore, a bit of a more dynamic combat (nothing really action, just go and see some FPS/TPS or MMORPG like Vindictus and C9 for a real action combat) and the Foundry, that is nothing new (there was in another Cryptic game, Star Trek Online, and that was not a great success)

  jdnyc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 1729

3/06/13 12:24:38 PM#14
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
Originally posted by jdnyc
Diablo+Tera+DDO

Sadly, Neverwinter has nothing to do with DDO. Better Diablo+Tera+WoWclone

I disagree.  The game is heavily instanced.  It has towns that everyone can join in.  It has outland areas that you run into other players as well.  The dungeons are tied to quests and are instanced for your party.  This is exactly like DDO.  But let's go further.  There are traps that you need to discover and disable like DDO.  Better combat implementation than DDO (where the Tera reference comes from.)  

Quests are heavily story focused in the world of Forgotten Realms.  Great care was taken to be true to the lore.  You have Gods and backgrounds that you pick for your characters.  There are skills that you can learn that will can open secret passages or hidden loot.  Then there's the whole Foundry system.

Neverwinter is no way even close to being a WoWclone. 

 

 

 

So let's see what Neverwinter DOES NOT HAVE from DDO:

- multiclass

- totally customizable classes, with stats, feat, skills, spells, totally customizable by the player

- equip not tied to a class (in DDO there is no "Required class: xxx" on the equip) but every class can use every item, with some malus or taking the right feats

- classes withoput fixed roles, in DDO you can have a tanking wizard, a dps cleric, an healer bard and so on

- combat that will NEVER root your character on the ground (in Neverwinter, lot of ranged skill will root your character in place)

 

Now, let's see about these features, what WoW have:

- no multiclass (like Neverwinter)

- very low customization, just a passive skill tree (just like the paragon/heroic trees in Neverwinter)

- equip tied to a class (just like in Neverwinter)

- classes with fixed roles

- lot of skills root your character in placewaiting for animation to finish, just like Neverwinter

 

Neverwinter is just like WoW with Forgotten Realms lore, a bit of a more dynamic combat (nothing really action, just go and see some FPS/TPS or MMORPG like Vindictus and C9 for a real action combat) and the Foundry, that is nothing new (there was in another Cryptic game, Star Trek Online, and that was not a great success)

The vast majority of MMOs have what you suggest, so that must make all of them WoWclones.

Note how I said it was three things.  I didn't say it was DDO 2.0 did I?  No, I didn't.  Its PvE zone layout is very much structured like DDO and if you're trying to say that Neverwinter isn't an action game, you're completely full of it.  Go play it or stop lying.  Eitherway, you're completely wrong.

Oh and more probably some of that stuff you find 'missing' has more to do with it being based off of 4e D&D and not 3.5

You know what DDO doesn't have?  The ability for you to design your own campaign for others to play in.

STO foundry wasn't in at launch and Neverwinter's is supposed to be better implemented based on trial and error from past experience.  So the whole not a great success thing would be great if you could expand on what you mean by that.  :)

 

  r3dl4nce

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 120

3/06/13 12:44:14 PM#15


Originally posted by jdnyc
The vast majority of MMOs have what you suggest, so that must make all of them WoWclones.
Bingo! You have just discovered the truth in the MMORPG market. Most of them are theme park Wow clones :)



Originally posted by jdnyc
Its PvE zone layout is very much structured like DDO and if you're trying to say that Neverwinter isn't an action game, you're completely full of it.  
DDO has no open world content, there are some social hubs from where you join parties and then you go into instanced dungeons, EVERY SINGLE dungeon is instanced. In Neverwinter, just like all WoW-clones, there is open world and some instanced content.


Originally posted by jdnyc
Go play it or stop lying.
Having the right mouse button tied to the camera rotation won't make an action combat, sorry. And not having to press tab to select an enemy (and, for your information, some skill in NWO have auto-facing and auto-targeting) which have an enormous hitbox so even without aiming you will hit, it's not very action. And having your character rooted on the ground doing some ranged skill is not very action. Or moving away from a hit and having the hit connect even if the character if out of range is not very action. Go test some REAL action MMORPG, Vindictus or C9, then go back testing the "action combat" of Neverwinter, so you'll understand.


Originally posted by jdnyc
Oh and more probably some of that stuff you find 'missing' has more to do with it being based off of 4e D&D and not 3.5
Yes. D&D 4th edition is so bad that every real D&D players won't play that. Having based the game on a bad edition of D&D won't be a good thing for the game. In fact Neverwinter is missing all of the real customization found in real D&D (not D&D 4)



Originally posted by jdnyc
You know what DDO doesn't have?  The ability for you to design your own campaign for others to play in. STO foundry wasn't in at launch and Neverwinter's is supposed to be better implemented based on trial and error from past experience.  
 As I sais, having the foundry did not save STO from failing. The foundry is only a mechanism to shift the dev work (new content generation) from the dev to the players. But if the mechanics of the games are not good, there is no quantity of content players can develop to make it a success.

  jdnyc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 1729

3/06/13 1:13:52 PM#16
Originally posted by r3dl4nce

 


Originally posted by jdnyc
The vast majority of MMOs have what you suggest, so that must make all of them WoWclones.

Bingo! You have just discovered the truth in the MMORPG market. Most of them are theme park Wow clones :)

Sarcasm is lost on this one.

 


Originally posted by jdnyc
Its PvE zone layout is very much structured like DDO and if you're trying to say that Neverwinter isn't an action game, you're completely full of it.  

DDO has no open world content, there are some social hubs from where you join parties and then you go into instanced dungeons, EVERY SINGLE dungeon is instanced. In Neverwinter, just like all WoW-clones, there is open world and some instanced content.

You and I both know you're spinning here in a vain attempt to prove you're right.  :)


Originally posted by jdnyc
Go play it or stop lying.

Having the right mouse button tied to the camera rotation won't make an action combat, sorry. And not having to press tab to select an enemy (and, for your information, some skill in NWO have auto-facing and auto-targeting) which have an enormous hitbox so even without aiming you will hit, it's not very action. And having your character rooted on the ground doing some ranged skill is not very action. Or moving away from a hit and having the hit connect even if the character if out of range is not very action. Go test some REAL action MMORPG, Vindictus or C9, then go back testing the "action combat" of Neverwinter, so you'll understand.

Almost anyone who's played the game will tell you that it has action combat.  Is it a spam fest?  no, well it could be; but you will run into issues as you meet more challenging encounters.  Don't think I didn't notice you dodge the point of whether you've played the game or not.  You do bring up a valid point about the auto-facing and targeting, but how that makes the game not action combat eludes me.  For your question of REAL action combat I will ask this.  Is Tera REAL action combat?


Originally posted by jdnyc
Oh and more probably some of that stuff you find 'missing' has more to do with it being based off of 4e D&D and not 3.5

Yes. D&D 4th edition is so bad that every real D&D players won't play that. Having based the game on a bad edition of D&D won't be a good thing for the game. In fact Neverwinter is missing all of the real customization found in real D&D (not D&D 4)

4e was designed to be like a MMO.  This works in Neverwinter's favor, not against it.


Originally posted by jdnyc
You know what DDO doesn't have?  The ability for you to design your own campaign for others to play in. STO foundry wasn't in at launch and Neverwinter's is supposed to be better implemented based on trial and error from past experience.  

 As I sais, having the foundry did not save STO from failing. The foundry is only a mechanism to shift the dev work (new content generation) from the dev to the players. But if the mechanics of the games are not good, there is no quantity of content players can develop to make it a success.

Cryptic had its own financial troubles before being bought out.  STO launched with a sub, tremendous amounts of bugs, and low optimization.  The foundry wasn't implemented to stop STO from failing.  It was implemented to bring in new interest and former players.  STO is very successful for them and more successful than CoH at it's peak.

 

  Doogiehowser

Elite Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1928

3/06/13 1:42:33 PM#17
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
Originally posted by jdnyc
Diablo+Tera+DDO

Sadly, Neverwinter has nothing to do with DDO. Better Diablo+Tera+WoWclone

Topic felt incomplete without someone whipping out 'WOW clone'. Thanks for not disappointing. 

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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  jdnyc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 1729

3/06/13 1:49:32 PM#18
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
[mod edit]

So you're saying that Tera is not an action combat MMORPG then?

  Dihoru

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2615

3/06/13 2:01:25 PM#19
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
[mod edit]

Played both of those, if you think that's action combat here step in this Panzer 1 and let my T-34-1 show you some action ;), until then stop moaning so much about a game you haven't even played, it makes you look... rather sad to be honest.

  Dihoru

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2615

3/06/13 3:54:51 PM#20
Originally posted by r3dl4nce
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by r3dl4nce

Not really interested in discussion, I'm trying the game during alpha nights and beta weekend and I know what I'm seeing, the game will have his course just like Star Trek Online, well, IT IS Star Trek Online without Space Combat and with Forgotten Realms lore.

According to Action combat, I said to try VINDICTUS and C9. Those are REAL action combat MMORPG.

Played both of those, if you think that's action combat here step in this Panzer 1 and let my T-34-1 show you some action ;), until then stop moaning so much about a game you haven't even played, it makes you look... rather sad to be honest.

[mod edit]

Shame Neverwinter Online is in closed beta then ^^.

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