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Neverwinter Forum » General Discussion » THE411 on NeverWinter "pay2win"

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123 posts found
  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 592

5/07/13 9:05:21 AM#41
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Shazzel
Originally posted by Vannor

Oh my.. I truely am fed up of correcting people on this enchant upgrade and crafting qaulity issue they 'think' there is.

All the items needed for these things can be earned through invocation. The items are also on the AH constantly at very affordable prices.

So.. you can either buy them with Zen bought with real money, invocate and get them from time to time at no cost at all (no ingame or real currency), buy the ones on the AH with Astral Diamonds or exchange Astral Diamonds for Zen to buy them.

If three ways of getting them without paying real money isn't enough then I don't really know what you want...

More conventient to pay.

Work for 30 cents per hour for 30-40 days to get bags, or 2 mins with a credit card... gee I dunno.

Did I say anything about bags?

I will if you want though...

You can create an unlimited amount of free accounts and mail your items for free to those characters and use them as mules. There, problem solved.

Or.. mail your items to yourself and leave them in the mailbox until you need them.

Th e irony is when these F2P companies release their numbers and say we have 10,000,000 registered users!!!

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 592

5/07/13 9:07:02 AM#42
Originally posted by mcrippins
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by deviltheory
What do you people want?  Seriously what?  They NEED to make money, PERIOD.   


Yeah, they do.

 


But instead of charging ridiculous high prices they could have reasonable prices and more people would open up their wallets.


Its like trying to become a millionaire by selling lemonade at $1000 a cup.

Tempted to try this

Until you get undercut by the kid down the block selling his lemonade for $990...

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  Vannor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

5/07/13 9:11:24 AM#43
Originally posted by Wighty
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Shazzel
Originally posted by Vannor

Oh my.. I truely am fed up of correcting people on this enchant upgrade and crafting qaulity issue they 'think' there is.

All the items needed for these things can be earned through invocation. The items are also on the AH constantly at very affordable prices.

So.. you can either buy them with Zen bought with real money, invocate and get them from time to time at no cost at all (no ingame or real currency), buy the ones on the AH with Astral Diamonds or exchange Astral Diamonds for Zen to buy them.

If three ways of getting them without paying real money isn't enough then I don't really know what you want...

More conventient to pay.

Work for 30 cents per hour for 30-40 days to get bags, or 2 mins with a credit card... gee I dunno.

Did I say anything about bags?

I will if you want though...

You can create an unlimited amount of free accounts and mail your items for free to those characters and use them as mules. There, problem solved.

Or.. mail your items to yourself and leave them in the mailbox until you need them.

Th e irony is when these F2P companies release their numbers and say we have 10,000,000 registered users!!!

You've no idea how rampant is it.

Because you can get the ward boxes, tradeskill boxes and AD from invocation people are creating up to 100 accounts and invocating on each other thier characters a few times a day. Every 7 days they will get about 50 of those wards to use themselves and sell on the AH. They will be 'covering' the place soon... there will be so many up on that AH, all rediculously cheap...

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 592

5/07/13 9:33:11 AM#44
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Wighty
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Shazzel
Originally posted by Vannor

Oh my.. I truely am fed up of correcting people on this enchant upgrade and crafting qaulity issue they 'think' there is.

All the items needed for these things can be earned through invocation. The items are also on the AH constantly at very affordable prices.

So.. you can either buy them with Zen bought with real money, invocate and get them from time to time at no cost at all (no ingame or real currency), buy the ones on the AH with Astral Diamonds or exchange Astral Diamonds for Zen to buy them.

If three ways of getting them without paying real money isn't enough then I don't really know what you want...

More conventient to pay.

Work for 30 cents per hour for 30-40 days to get bags, or 2 mins with a credit card... gee I dunno.

Did I say anything about bags?

I will if you want though...

You can create an unlimited amount of free accounts and mail your items for free to those characters and use them as mules. There, problem solved.

Or.. mail your items to yourself and leave them in the mailbox until you need them.

Th e irony is when these F2P companies release their numbers and say we have 10,000,000 registered users!!!

You've no idea how rampant is it.

Because you can get the ward boxes, tradeskill boxes and AD from invocation people are creating up to 100 accounts and invocating on each other thier characters a few times a day. Every 7 days they will get about 50 of those wards to use themselves and sell on the AH. They will be 'covering' the place soon... there will be so many up on that AH, all rediculously cheap...

The shit of it is... this seems like the only way to get ahead... Wait until the AD farmers start spamming... they will probably have 1000's of accounts they are doing this with.

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  kjempff

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 706

Make worlds not stories

5/07/13 9:41:11 AM#45
Originally posted by deviltheory
What do you people want?  Seriously what?  They NEED to make money, PERIOD.  They give you all you need to play and enjoy the game for free, and they offer benefits for the players that want to pay.  This is not P2W, you can get all the same combat benefits by working for it for free.  Yes payers will get it faster, so what?  They have to offer something to entice people to spend money.

You contradict yourself, everything you write is P2W by definition. P2W does not mean you cannot get things for free, it mean if you want to "win" as in be in the top game, you have to pay. That you can get the same by spending half a lifetime means it is unrealistic and purely theoretical to get the same as someone paying.

That is what P2W means, whether You think its a problem is another question.

Other than that, Neverwinter is a good game and I might even throw some money at them, but I can never go in 100% like I did with other mmorpgs, because I know that I would be competing on investment and that is not what I play games for.

 

Anyways, thanks poster and whoever helped for clarifying what cost what and reasons to get it.

ps. There is a positive side to P2W too. Cryptic will probably do something to limit gold(astral) farmers and cheaters generally because those directly compete with how the game is supposed to make money. As opposed to WoW, where hunting down those are mostly just expenses for Blizzard.

  hyllstarter

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 198

5/07/13 9:42:23 AM#46

Question the mounts you buy in the zen market do they only last 5 hours also?

 

  kjempff

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 706

Make worlds not stories

5/07/13 9:43:28 AM#47
Originally posted by hyllstarter

Question the mounts you buy in the zen market do they only last 5 hours also?

 

Nop all bought mounts are permanent, also the 5gold ones.

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 592

5/07/13 9:44:07 AM#48
Originally posted by hyllstarter

Question the mounts you buy in the zen market do they only last 5 hours also?

 

Purchased mounts are perm...

The same goes for the basic mounts you can purchase for 5 gold from the stable (perm)

Only token mounts are temp

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1017

5/07/13 9:45:44 AM#49

zen store, and mounts bought with gold are permanent. 

 

Store mounts are also account wide.

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2244

5/07/13 9:56:05 AM#50
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Shazzel
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Shazzel
/snip

Did I say anything about bags?

I will if you want though...

You can create an unlimited amount of free accounts and mail your items for free to those characters and use them as mules. There, problem solved.

Or.. mail your items to yourself and leave them in the mailbox until you need them.

You are basicly agree'ing with the article, you can get everything for free, but its VASTLY faster/easier to attain with a credit card. The average Joe will want bags and bank slots, not the mailbox run-around.

The article says be prepared to spend $250-$500.

I just explained why people shouldn't be prepared to spend that.

 Seriously i can't see why anyone would spend anywhere near those amounts in a game were one can reach max level in a mouth without paying anything. Hell the OP says he didn't pay anything and made it to end game in what 2 weeks.

  SO Yay you can pay to look ultra cool or to reach the end game in one week but really even the Op admits you don't have to spend a dime to have fun and enjoy the game to the end.

  DeathWolf2u

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/04/04
Posts: 298

A new year let's hope for new games that don't suck.

5/07/13 10:02:37 AM#51

I've been playing this game for a little bit now. I have a level 44 Guardian using a cap ranked 15 Cleric companion. Here is my take on Neverwinter so far up to this point without spending any real cash.

 

1. The game is fun and I am enjoying myself so far but stuck on a boss I just cannot get past or I would be in the upper 40's level by now.

 

2. Everything that cost either astral diamonds or ZEN in the cash shops is beyond insane in pricing and I will never spend a cent on these ridiculous prices. I'm also disgusted with obtaining and having all these 'Nightmare Lockboxes' in my inventory that I will never be able to open due to what it cost in real cash to buy ZEN, then to buy a skeleton key to open 1 box. They try to entice you to buy ZEN because of the chance of receiving an 'Inferno Nightmare' mount among other items. If you try to sell these lockboxes no one wants them they are worthless as everyone else that refuses to spend cash is trying to dump these boxes as well and there are alot of people trying to rid themselves of the lock boxes. You obtain these lockboxes as loot dropped from time to time while playing the game.

 

3. Crafting is unique but obtaining resources to continue crafting is absurd. You won't be leveling any of the crafting professions up anytime soon. The ony one that is feasible in leveling is the Leadership profession.

 

4. Right now I have mixxed emotions about continuing playing. While I can keep playing entirely for free this game is very centric on paying real cash. I'd rather pay a monthly fee in this game and receive everything which would be wayyyyy much cheaper.

 

Realistically instead of dropping $40 on just an awesome mount and $20 on many other much needed items I'm going to spend that cash on a new game. Especially in June since there are some much awaited titles releasing that makes more sense than dropping serious cash on a few items in Neverwinter.

 

Also a correction the free mount rental you get when you hit level 20 is 40% movement speed. The horse you can buy with 5 gold is 50% movement speed. The 5 gold mount is all I plan on using and works just fine.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3900

5/07/13 10:06:06 AM#52
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Shazzel
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Shazzel
/snip

Did I say anything about bags?

I will if you want though...

You can create an unlimited amount of free accounts and mail your items for free to those characters and use them as mules. There, problem solved.

Or.. mail your items to yourself and leave them in the mailbox until you need them.

You are basicly agree'ing with the article, you can get everything for free, but its VASTLY faster/easier to attain with a credit card. The average Joe will want bags and bank slots, not the mailbox run-around.

The article says be prepared to spend $250-$500.

I just explained why people shouldn't be prepared to spend that.

 Seriously i can't see why anyone would spend anywhere near those amounts in a game were one can reach max level in a mouth without paying anything. Hell the OP says he didn't pay anything and made it to end game in what 2 weeks.

  SO Yay you can pay to look ultra cool or to reach the end game in one week but really even the Op admits you don't have to spend a dime to have fun and enjoy the game to the end.

Here is my opinion or what I think end game is now. Since WoW was get to max level and get raid gear, and get even better raid gear, that has ended. Like for example GW2 you can reach level 80 rather quickly but getting Legendary gear is near impossible from my point of view. So, end game now doesn't really revolve around hitting max level. Just because the OP got to "end game", does he have the best gear and achieved all of what the game has to offer? We need to stop thinking of end game the same as we use to imho.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Pandaman102

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 94

5/07/13 10:07:14 AM#53
Originally posted by winter

Seriously i can't see why anyone would spend anywhere near those amounts in a game were one can reach max level in a mouth without paying anything. Hell the OP says he didn't pay anything and made it to end game in what 2 weeks.

  SO Yay you can pay to look ultra cool or to reach the end game in one week but really even the Op admits you don't have to spend a dime to have fun and enjoy the game to the end.

You might wonder that, but clearly there are enough suckers out there who do pay that much in F2P games for it to become PWI's core business model - and a successful enough one that they expanded into North America.

  User Deleted
5/07/13 10:12:05 AM#54

Excuse me... but it seems what we have here is the classic have versus the have not argument.

 

Let us assume for a moment that we are playing WoW.  Arena junkies we are.  We start off on day one like mad and earn our way into the best gear in short order.  We then head over to standard BGs and WTF face roll over all those who are just entering into PVP for the first time.  How is that any different than someone who purchased said advantage?  (Not suggesting that the item shops are P2W, just pointing out that "unfairness" abounds whether its sub-based or not).

 

Apply the same thing to the most cutting edge guilds running around in their legendaries and 500 speed rare mounts for killing boss X before anyone else.  

 

Then consider for a moment what happens when the developers step in and make it easier for the masses to acquire the same things, at half the effort/price.  You cry foul.  I had to do a world first kill naked in the snow with an arrow in your knee.  This guy just hit max level, does LFR, and gets it merely for not standing in the fire?  WTF?

 

You are clammering for an even playing field in which there isn't any.  Whether you buy it, earn it, steal it... whatever, someone will always get there first.  The fact remains that everyone has access to it.  I don't have X, therefore the game is unfair.  Person Y bought X and now he's OP.  

Perhaps they just need to phase players based on what they have... you buy an extra 30 slot bag, you can only see players who also purchased the 30 slot bag.  No more advantage... if you went to the extreme and decked yourself out, you'd be in an instance of one.  No one else can see you because no one else has everything.  Now that would be hilarious!

  easy-r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/12
Posts: 40

5/07/13 10:14:32 AM#55
People have been paying hundreds of dollars for equipment and characters in MMOs and games like D2 since they were first created.  This is one example of the game companies trying to recieve this profit now by making the purchase of such items the only way to obtain them, rather than botting or labor.  I don't really have a problem with it, my problem is that the core game is just not very good, not anywhere near good enough to justify spending this, for me.
  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2244

5/07/13 10:15:43 AM#56
Originally posted by F2Plague
Great post. I hate f2p games but I decided to give this a try because of the Neverwinter name. I am getting close to end game and am realising more and more that this f2p is so far from free its a joke. I never have a problem pulling out my credit card for a good game. But this isn't even good. I play with my friends so we always have a full party. And every one of these quests aside from dungeons and skirmishes is over in a matter of minutes they were all clearly designed for solo play. Ive only just started playing at open beta, I dont even play much but me and my buddies are almost end game thats how quick these quests go. And im done, not even gonna bother getting to end game to be put at a huge disadvantage against other players who are spending 100's to play a shitty instanced themepark.

  WoW you must have put alot of time into playing a game you hate and have no fun with to be close to the endgame already. SAd you willingly spend sooo much time doing something you hate for no evident reaason (not like you get payed to play it)

    If you got through the 5 party member crypt dungeon (in blackdagger) in a few mins I applaud you. I assume you were doing it speed run and didn't stop to pick up treasure/runes or harvest nodes that would give you the items you claim you'll need in the end game. (Go figure)

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2244

5/07/13 10:33:48 AM#57
Originally posted by DeathWolf2u

I've been playing this game for a little bit now. I have a level 44 Guardian using a cap ranked 15 Cleric companion. Here is my take on Neverwinter so far up to this point without spending any real cash.

 

1. The game is fun and I am enjoying myself so far but stuck on a boss I just cannot get past or I would be in the upper 40's level by now.

 

2. Everything that cost either astral diamonds or ZEN in the cash shops is beyond insane in pricing and I will never spend a cent on these ridiculous prices. I'm also disgusted with obtaining and having all these 'Nightmare Lockboxes' in my inventory that I will never be able to open due to what it cost in real cash to buy ZEN, then to buy a skeleton key to open 1 box. They try to entice you to buy ZEN because of the chance of receiving an 'Inferno Nightmare' mount among other items. If you try to sell these lockboxes no one wants them they are worthless as everyone else that refuses to spend cash is trying to dump these boxes as well and there are alot of people trying to rid themselves of the lock boxes. You obtain these lockboxes as loot dropped from time to time while playing the game.

 

3. Crafting is unique but obtaining resources to continue crafting is absurd. You won't be leveling any of the crafting professions up anytime soon. The ony one that is feasible in leveling is the Leadership profession.

 

4. Right now I have mixxed emotions about continuing playing. While I can keep playing entirely for free this game is very centric on paying real cash. I'd rather pay a monthly fee in this game and receive everything which would be wayyyyy much cheaper.

 

Realistically instead of dropping $40 on just an awesome mount and $20 on many other much needed items I'm going to spend that cash on a new game. Especially in June since there are some much awaited titles releasing that makes more sense than dropping serious cash on a few items in Neverwinter.

 

Also a correction the free mount rental you get when you hit level 20 is 40% movement speed. The horse you can buy with 5 gold is 50% movement speed. The 5 gold mount is all I plan on using and works just fine.

 My apologies I'll probably sound like a totall fanbois here but actually my points not just about Neverwinter. In the above case the player played for a few weeks, had fun, and even states he'd rather pay a monthly fee. However while he states he had fun and has evidently no problem paying for his fun he wont.

   Is it just because he's that cheap? Is it because of a sense of entitlement. "Yes I had fun I may well still play and have fun but I'l not pay the developers a penny because I'm saving it to buy games later that may well not even be that fun as therss no free trial on them.

 

  To me its alot like tipping your waiter if they do good service and the food is good you tip  (ie if the games fun and you played and may well continue to play you throw the devs a bone so hopefully they can continue to develop the game) This pretains to Neverwinter or any F2P game. It will be funny if the guy goes and buys those games in june and one of them turns out to be crap. He will have supported a developer of a game he didn't like while at the same time not supporting a the developer of a game he states he had fun with. (and people wonder why some good games die and other crappy games flurish)

 

 

  Pandaman102

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 94

5/07/13 10:44:23 AM#58
Originally posted by Vannor

It's no secret that paying will get you there quicker.. but some people blow that out of proportion. They make it sound like it's almost impossible or will take months if you don't pay. It's just not true.

Impossible is certainly a stretch, but why do you say months isn't true?

Let's assume the Astral Diamonds exchange rate drops to 250 AD per ZEN, like it did Dilithium/ZEN in STO and Questionite/ZEN in CO. With two characters, you have a cap of 48000 AD per day, which is 192 ZEN per day.

To Mount Training at 110% you need 2,832,000 AD, which is 59 days of grinding using both characters.

To get a 4000 ZEN epic mount you need another 21 days.

To get a 3500 ZEN epic pet you need another 19 days.

You only really need Coalescent Wards for the last two ranks of an enchantment, so 5 wards at $10 means another 26 days for each rune and enchantment. Let's assume you're making one for your pet, one for your armor, and another for your weapon, so 78 days in total.

That alone comes to 177 days minimum, doesn't that count as "months"?
  Pandaman102

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 94

5/07/13 10:51:18 AM#59
Originally posted by pmiles

Excuse me... but it seems what we have here is the classic have versus the have not argument.

I believe you're mistaken. I made a comment on the first page and Shazzel agreed with it on the second. This isn't about "have vs. have not", it's calling a game out on having an exploitative cash shop.

And everyone else is jumping to conclusions while defending said cash shop against negativity.

  Vorch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 809

5/07/13 10:51:25 AM#60

Seems like the game is fun if you pay a bit and work if you don't.

That said, it doesn't take 500 bucks to get the "essential"  "convience" items.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

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