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Cryptic Studios | Play Now
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 06/20/13)  | Pub:Perfect World Entertainment
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:n/a | Pay Type:Free | Monthly Fee:n/a
System Req: PC | Out of date info? Let us know!

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21 posts found
  rogiel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/04
Posts: 19

 
OP  5/06/13 8:57:59 PM#1

For those of you who are interested in how the F2P model evolves once you reach end level, this might be interesting to read:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1dry0g/neverwinters_f2p_model_what_you_need_to_know/

"If I had the stars of the darkest nights or the diamonds from the deepest ocean, I would forsake them all for your sweet kiss"

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4573

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/06/13 8:59:28 PM#2
give us the bottom line ? p2w y/n.

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1485

5/06/13 9:06:22 PM#3
Not a fan of P2W.....

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR,AA

  Savair

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 14

5/07/13 1:21:03 AM#4
Thanks, this was all I needed to make my mind up. I wont support P2W and greed.   It's a shame, wasn't such a bad game either.
  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2436

5/07/13 1:59:38 AM#5

I understand people's viewpoints on the F2P model but I can't really bring myself to care, personally, and never will.  Anyone with a brain cell can see where PW is going with the Cash Shop and I fully understood the pricing structure and the implications thereof  before I even downloaded the client.  After all, it's not as if this is the first Cryptic F2P game (or F2P games from other companies) I have played and, to be fair, the pricing structure of all of these games companies is clearly laid out for all to see.  I don't see the need for all the angst and finger-pointing over the pricing.  No-one is forcing me to play a game.

I'm a casual player of this game (well, all mmorpgs, to be honest) and my total expenditure for this game will be the $5 that I paid for two extra character slots.  That's my first and last purchase, because there is absolutely nothing else whatsoever I need or want in the Zen store.  I don't intend to remove enchants from slots, I don't need fancy mounts, vanity pets, fashion items, extra bags, bank slots, dyes, respecs or whatever.  Companies such as Sony and Blizzard got more out of me in one month than this game will get out of my wallet for the entire time I will be playing this game.  :)

  VassagoMael

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 500

5/07/13 2:07:10 AM#6

I have been playing with some friends and we are enjoying the game. I am concerned about the f2p model. For instance there are these Nightmare Chests that drop off of mobs and you have to buy the key using premium currency. Each key costs $1 worth of premium current (or 9 for $10). I know that it is not necessary to open these, however I already have over 20 of these boxes from 2 days of gameplay, and given that the average monthly sub of a sub based mmo is ~$15/month, the prices seem excessive to me. I am still playing the game, but I won't even consider paying that much for a key to get a chance at getting an item that has no actual use.

 

Not to mention the near uselessness of the standard currency. I will continue playing this game for now, but it is giving me a very dirty taste for "f2p" style that I never had before from f2p games I have played (LoL, MWO, WoT) 

 

Just give me a good sub based game that doesn't need a complex exchange and three tiers of currency. I want to unlock bank slots with gold, not US Dollars.

 

Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!

  enntense

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/12
Posts: 15

5/07/13 2:24:01 AM#7
I tried this game out, it had some interesting content.  I decided to pay a little bit and buy some of the in game currency.  I got a receipt, but no in game currency.  So I went to customer service to enter a ticket.  Well, none of the drop down menu's work, so you cannot submit a ticket.  So I start flipping through the FAQ pages.  About 54 items into FAQ it says all beta games will have Zen WIPED when they go live..As in we are throwing your real cash in the garbage.  Why doesn't it say that right up front?  Not sure.  But since I now have no way of even contacting perfect word, I have let VISA know I think I'm being defreauded and it's in thier hands now.  Needless to say, I will not be returning to another perfect world game of any type any time soon.
  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 507

5/07/13 2:24:16 AM#8
Originally posted by Robokapp
give us the bottom line ? p2w y/n.

Bottom line is: Everything can be obtain via gameplay, but some thing will have to be worked for (or paid).

So basically, it's just like real life (or old school MMO's). It's something that new generations find difficult to grasp.

  bestever

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 583

5/07/13 2:42:26 AM#9
Originally posted by enntense
I tried this game out, it had some interesting content.  I decided to pay a little bit and buy some of the in game currency.  I got a receipt, but no in game currency.  So I went to customer service to enter a ticket.  Well, none of the drop down menu's work, so you cannot submit a ticket.  So I start flipping through the FAQ pages.  About 54 items into FAQ it says all beta games will have Zen WIPED when they go live..As in we are throwing your real cash in the garbage.  Why doesn't it say that right up front?  Not sure.  But since I now have no way of even contacting perfect word, I have let VISA know I think I'm being defreauded and it's in thier hands now.  Needless to say, I will not be returning to another perfect world game of any type any time soon.

LOL Zen won't be wiped nothing will be wiped. Also look in your wallet at the perfectworld website and transfer it to the game. Get mad at PW all you want but its your mistake.

Just so you know you can't just trade zen for AD you need to put in up on the AH and at the price it going you won't even sale it anytime soon unless you put up in small amounts like 125zen so people can buy the keys.

  bestever

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 583

5/07/13 2:44:43 AM#10
Originally posted by DeniZg
Originally posted by Robokapp
give us the bottom line ? p2w y/n.

Bottom line is: Everything can be obtain via gameplay, but some thing will have to be worked for (or paid).

So basically, it's just like real life (or old school MMO's). It's something that new generations find difficult to grasp.

Agree and I don't see pay2win if you can earn it in game, even if it takes a long time. I see the complaint as I want now but I don't want to work for it so I'll call it pay2win since people can buy it. 

  bestever

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 583

5/07/13 2:46:48 AM#11
Originally posted by VassagoMael

I have been playing with some friends and we are enjoying the game. I am concerned about the f2p model. For instance there are these Nightmare Chests that drop off of mobs and you have to buy the key using premium currency. Each key costs $1 worth of premium current (or 9 for $10). I know that it is not necessary to open these, however I already have over 20 of these boxes from 2 days of gameplay, and given that the average monthly sub of a sub based mmo is ~$15/month, the prices seem excessive to me. I am still playing the game, but I won't even consider paying that much for a key to get a chance at getting an item that has no actual use.

 

Not to mention the near uselessness of the standard currency. I will continue playing this game for now, but it is giving me a very dirty taste for "f2p" style that I never had before from f2p games I have played (LoL, MWO, WoT) 

 

Just give me a good sub based game that doesn't need a complex exchange and three tiers of currency. I want to unlock bank slots with gold, not US Dollars.

 

No prettty good stuff comes out of those lock boxes unlike many other games. I got a nightmare mount, the one with the flames for 125zen so yeah they're pretty nice. That mount goes for 1.2 millon AD.

  bestever

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 583

5/07/13 2:50:47 AM#12
Originally posted by Dibdabs

I understand people's viewpoints on the F2P model but I can't really bring myself to care, personally, and never will.  Anyone with a brain cell can see where PW is going with the Cash Shop and I fully understood the pricing structure and the implications thereof  before I even downloaded the client.  After all, it's not as if this is the first Cryptic F2P game (or F2P games from other companies) I have played and, to be fair, the pricing structure of all of these games companies is clearly laid out for all to see.  I don't see the need for all the angst and finger-pointing over the pricing.  No-one is forcing me to play a game.

I'm a casual player of this game (well, all mmorpgs, to be honest) and my total expenditure for this game will be the $5 that I paid for two extra character slots.  That's my first and last purchase, because there is absolutely nothing else whatsoever I need or want in the Zen store.  I don't intend to remove enchants from slots, I don't need fancy mounts, vanity pets, fashion items, extra bags, bank slots, dyes, respecs or whatever.  Companies such as Sony and Blizzard got more out of me in one month than this game will get out of my wallet for the entire time I will be playing this game.  :)

Pretty sad to not support a game you like and enjoy. I could use the same logic as you. I'll take my 15$ a month and get me a bag then next month I'll take 15 and open bank slots. Hmmm sounds about right. :)

  mazut

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 825

5/07/13 2:50:48 AM#13
Originally posted by Dibdabs

I understand people's viewpoints on the F2P model but I can't really bring myself to care, personally, and never will.  Anyone with a brain cell can see where PW is going with the Cash Shop and I fully understood the pricing structure and the implications thereof  before I even downloaded the client.  After all, it's not as if this is the first Cryptic F2P game (or F2P games from other companies) I have played and, to be fair, the pricing structure of all of these games companies is clearly laid out for all to see.  I don't see the need for all the angst and finger-pointing over the pricing.  No-one is forcing me to play a game.

I'm a casual player of this game (well, all mmorpgs, to be honest) and my total expenditure for this game will be the $5 that I paid for two extra character slots.  That's my first and last purchase, because there is absolutely nothing else whatsoever I need or want in the Zen store.  I don't intend to remove enchants from slots, I don't need fancy mounts, vanity pets, fashion items, extra bags, bank slots, dyes, respecs or whatever.  Companies such as Sony and Blizzard got more out of me in one month than this game will get out of my wallet for the entire time I will be playing this game.  :)

Exactly, I'll create my stories and can't be bothered by this "store wars"

  ragz45

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 482

5/07/13 3:16:21 AM#14

I'm currently level 60 working to level up my 2nd char atm.  I have not found a single P2Win aspect of the game yet.   The way he lays out the cost to create the enchantments at end game ($160) isn't even close to how the game actually works.  The only possible way the game could be considered P2W is if you consider the ability to convert Zen to AD.

If that is the case then GW2, AoW, and every other MMO that uses the same system is also P2W.

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1148

5/07/13 3:22:00 AM#15
Originally posted by Robokapp
give us the bottom line ? p2w y/n.

Its pay2win, to do the endgame raids you need high end gear that is bought with astral diamonds, were talking prices in the millions, you can only refine 24k a day, however if you buy them with zen(cash shop funds) it bypasses this limit. Do the math. Looking at over 40 days just to make a bit under 1 mil. Assuming you find nothing valuable to sell. The game is entirely pay2win, anyone who says its not is an idiot. You just don't notice its pay2win till you want to do endgame. You can hit the level cap of 60 without paying, but from then on get ready to pay out the ass if you wanna actually complete any endgame stuff.

 

The sole fact they have a cash shop currency like AD in and itself is pay2win, why not just use normal ingame copper/silver/gold?, this is compounded by the fact you can also sell stuff on the ah for ad as well. Sorry but any system that has to use a speical currency to buy ingame items insted of the games basic currency is rated a 9 out of 10 on the pay2win scale, especally if you can buy it for cash shop funds.

Top be considered pay2win buying the item has to give an advantage, in this case buying ad for zen, gives you a massive advantage since it can massivly lower the time needed to obtain the amount you need otherwise. Stuff like boosted exp and such I don't count as pay2win, since like most mmos you hit cap in NW in like a few days if that. Like most mmo's now a days (and oh boy how they have degenerated to this god damn you blizzard) its just a single player game with a glorified chat system till level cap.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2436

5/07/13 3:38:25 AM#16
Originally posted by bestever

Pretty sad to not support a game you like and enjoy. I could use the same logic as you. I'll take my 15$ a month and get me a bag then next month I'll take 15 and open bank slots. Hmmm sounds about right. :)

I'm not going to buy things that have no value to me am I, rofl.  I'm sure PW is realistic enough to accept that the lure of pointless shinies is not going to ensnare everyone.  I'm happy with the 3 bags they give you and my 5g mount.  After that I make my own fun.  :)

  Kaerigan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/18/06
Posts: 713

5/07/13 6:27:28 AM#17
Originally posted by ragz45

I'm currently level 60 working to level up my 2nd char atm.  I have not found a single P2Win aspect of the game yet.   The way he lays out the cost to create the enchantments at end game ($160) isn't even close to how the game actually works.  The only possible way the game could be considered P2W is if you consider the ability to convert Zen to AD.

If that is the case then GW2, AoW, and every other MMO that uses the same system is also P2W.

Can you explain how it does work, then? It seems to me that you need 16 lesser enhancements to get a greater enhancement. Since there's a 99% chance of failure on doing those 16 fusions you're gonna need the luck of Gladstone Gander or (more realistically) you're gonna use Coalescent Wards that cost $10 each = $160.

And it's great that you can earn AD in-game and trade it for zen. The problem for me is that it's not realistic to do so. If you manage to earn 24000 AD per day, you're looking at 290 days of play (435 000 * 16 / 24 000 = 290) to make a single greater enhancement (if the Redditor is correct in that $10 equals about 435 000 AD).

<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  Joejc7135

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/13
Posts: 204

5/07/13 8:56:42 AM#18

The only thing that seems like a problem are the enchants at endgame that have a 1% chance to succeed in fusion. If all your items can take these super end game enchants and you have to buy the cash shop item for each item..thats quite alot of money. I would have absoloutley no problem if these stat bonuses didn't carry over to pvp. Meh, I find the gameplay fun...so ill keep playing till It's not anymore. I doubt I will ever make it to the point where I have to worry about the cash shop part. Also how is it more greedy to allow someone to play from 1-60 for free when the norm is to plunk down 60 bucks just to log on? Seems like thats even more greed...

 

Kids need to stop with this occupy bull..You should drop to your knees and thank the heavens people are greedy..if they weren't you wouldn't have the internet...games..iphones...pacemakers..pretty much anything anyone ever made a buck on. It's not that the world is greedy..it's that your entitled.

  Umbrood

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/03
Posts: 1842

5/07/13 9:22:41 AM#19
Originally posted by Joejc7135

The only thing that seems like a problem are the enchants at endgame that have a 1% chance to succeed in fusion. If all your items can take these super end game enchants and you have to buy the cash shop item for each item..thats quite alot of money. I would have absoloutley no problem if these stat bonuses didn't carry over to pvp. Meh, I find the gameplay fun...so ill keep playing till It's not anymore. I doubt I will ever make it to the point where I have to worry about the cash shop part. Also how is it more greedy to allow someone to play from 1-60 for free when the norm is to plunk down 60 bucks just to log on? Seems like thats even more greed...

 

Kids need to stop with this occupy bull..You should drop to your knees and thank the heavens people are greedy..if they weren't you wouldn't have the internet...games..iphones...pacemakers..pretty much anything anyone ever made a buck on. It's not that the world is greedy..it's that your entitled.

Fairly certain you can use the cheap wards as well, I have not done the math but that would cut the price down a LOT, only problem being that they break on fail.

But I think you get 100 cheap wards for the same price as one "safe" one.

Using them you cut the price in half, bit more bit less depending on luck, but with so many fuses I bet you will even out really close to half.

If someone would care to do the math on that one it would be great. ;)

( I have never fused one though, so I can not say if the safe wards is the only protection you can have )

The cheap ones are a lot more accessible as well, in game, wereas the safe one can only be bought I think.

I think both trade bars and celestial(praying) coins can buy them though, but not sure on that one.

Furthermore, the lesser ones are not that common, at this point they are 100k+ in the AH, if you want bo buy them.

Getting them from drops seems crazy, as you would need to 64 of them to even face the 160/80$€ problem.

Not sure if they drop bigger then lesser though, that would cut the amount of drops needed down, but it would also mean one less fuse, so that is a win/win if it is at all possible.

All deduction though, if someone who has spent a bit more time at endgame could correct/agree here that would be helpful?

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_

I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2436

5/07/13 9:28:29 AM#20

I suppose I'm fortunate that "End GAme" in mmorpgs -(AKA:  MMORPG equivalent to "Groundhog Day") holds no interest for me.  The same applies to PvP as well.  That's why the costs of making/removing enchants is irrelevant to me, but I do have some sympathy for people who enjoy these aspects of MMO games.

It has been mentioned by some people in this thread that F2P games companies deserve a bit of financial support from players for their efforts and having thought about it, you know what, having weighed what was said, in all fairness I think that's not unreasonable.  There's not much of anything I want, so I'll get a basic mount for each of my characters and that way I'll have spent what I would have laid out for a boxed game.  Duty done.  :)

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