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WildStar Forum » General Discussion » WildStar's Gaffney on why the game isn't free-to-play

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88 posts found
  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2718

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

10/09/13 10:15:42 PM#61
Originally posted by Wighty

What a great read!

 

I sincerely hope this F2P bubble is over and we can have a sub renaissance! keeps the 70-80% leechers to put up or shut up!

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar-producer-exaggerated-death-subscription-mmos-free-plays-not-magic-bullet

The F2P bubble will never be over since it is the most lucrative business model for MMO's.  I suspect WS and ESO will go F2P within a year post release since as we all know the subscription model is dead but studios don't want to see it as such.

 

The only way subscriptions will ever stick around is through Studio's and Developers purposely building small niche style games where they expect a small hard core following.  Big Budget all-encompassing Subscription MMO's will never return.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 477

10/09/13 10:27:21 PM#62

I'm all for P2P and think F2P is a disaster for MMORPGs.

 

but.

 

WildStar is going to have CREDD, which is the equivalent of letting scrubs buy game gold for cash.  That kind of crap is usually only found in the worst of F2P.  Buying gold is cheating.  A game company facilitating cheating is weak.  Especially when the game has premium box and sub costs.

 

So...while WildStar has some interesting aspects, the fact that it not only condones cheating but encourages it and facilitates it, makes it a resounding "no" for me.  I don't want to pay to play with a bunch of losers who can't be bothered to play games and want to buy their way thru - since that's one of the reasons F2P sucks for MMORPGs.  Play to win.  No pay to win.

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  Alverant

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 306

10/09/13 10:38:43 PM#63
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Alverant

I agree with the idea of subscriptions if done right. I see it like a magazine subscription. Every month (or thereabouts) you get new content. Plus you get access to the server and code maintenance. That stuff ain't free.

Right now what is starting to push me away from WS is the community on their message boards. Seems like the loudest posters are big jerks and I'm not seeing the community I want to see in a game.

Have you been to Wildstar Central.  It is the biggest WS community forum.  The community here is wonderful.  People treat each other nicely.  It is by far the best pre-release community I have seen since hmm I was going to say vanguard but might be a nicer and better community than Vanguard's.  But both were nice and the most well behaved I have seen.  the only other pre-release close to those two was Rift.  Not coincidentally the same CM who ran the Vanguard pre-community also ran the Rift community. Cindy Bowen. 

Yes, that is the community I was talking about. I'm not sure how you can say it's "nicer". I posted a question about crafting and the insults started flying pretty quickly. One guy was acting like if you didn't play the game the way he did (with multi-day raiding) then you were casual and shouldn't be playing. There was another discussion about customization of body types (both the poster and I played City of Heroes which had fantastic character customization) and the discussion turned to the female character options. In this case, the lack of options. Sure enough there were a bunch of immature people saying that it was OK that the female characters looked like models and those who wanted more options were being "feminazis" and other sexist crap. Interestingly enough both those posters want to play Chua. Color me "unsurprised".

Seriously, Vanguard and Rift must be a real cess pits to make WS look better.

  Alverant

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 306

10/09/13 10:40:23 PM#64
Originally posted by Voqar
So...while WildStar has some interesting aspects, the fact that it not only condones cheating but encourages it and facilitates it, makes it a resounding "no" for me.  I don't want to pay to play with a bunch of losers who can't be bothered to play games and want to buy their way thru - since that's one of the reasons F2P sucks for MMORPGs.  Play to win.  No pay to win.

Wait, how does it encourages and facilitates cheating? That's a big "no" for me too but I want to know what they're doing first.

  stayontarget

Guide

Joined: 10/04/08
Posts: 6127

Girlfriends come and go but Epic battles are Soulbound

10/09/13 10:48:13 PM#65
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by Voqar
So...while WildStar has some interesting aspects, the fact that it not only condones cheating but encourages it and facilitates it, makes it a resounding "no" for me.  I don't want to pay to play with a bunch of losers who can't be bothered to play games and want to buy their way thru - since that's one of the reasons F2P sucks for MMORPGs.  Play to win.  No pay to win.

Wait, how does it encourages and facilitates cheating? That's a big "no" for me too but I want to know what they're doing first.

Don't listen to that guy,  he has no idea what the hell he's talking about.  He has zero concept on how Credd works or even plex for that matter.

 

Now getting back on topic.  I will not be playing WS because i don't feel its worth the sub fee.  I tend to prefer sub over f2p if its worth it.

Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1789

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

10/09/13 10:56:04 PM#66
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Wighty

What a great read!

 

I sincerely hope this F2P bubble is over and we can have a sub renaissance! keeps the 70-80% leechers to put up or shut up!

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar-producer-exaggerated-death-subscription-mmos-free-plays-not-magic-bullet

The F2P bubble will never be over since it is the most lucrative business model for MMO's.  I suspect WS and ESO will go F2P within a year post release since as we all know the subscription model is dead but studios don't want to see it as such.

 

The only way subscriptions will ever stick around is through Studio's and Developers purposely building small niche style games where they expect a small hard core following.  Big Budget all-encompassing Subscription MMO's will never return.

I totally agree with this statement /\

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 207

10/09/13 11:12:06 PM#67
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Alverant

I agree with the idea of subscriptions if done right. I see it like a magazine subscription. Every month (or thereabouts) you get new content. Plus you get access to the server and code maintenance. That stuff ain't free.

Right now what is starting to push me away from WS is the community on their message boards. Seems like the loudest posters are big jerks and I'm not seeing the community I want to see in a game.

Have you been to Wildstar Central.  It is the biggest WS community forum.  The community here is wonderful.  People treat each other nicely.  It is by far the best pre-release community I have seen since hmm I was going to say vanguard but might be a nicer and better community than Vanguard's.  But both were nice and the most well behaved I have seen.  the only other pre-release close to those two was Rift.  Not coincidentally the same CM who ran the Vanguard pre-community also ran the Rift community. Cindy Bowen. 

Yes, that is the community I was talking about. I'm not sure how you can say it's "nicer". I posted a question about crafting and the insults started flying pretty quickly. One guy was acting like if you didn't play the game the way he did (with multi-day raiding) then you were casual and shouldn't be playing. There was another discussion about customization of body types (both the poster and I played City of Heroes which had fantastic character customization) and the discussion turned to the female character options. In this case, the lack of options. Sure enough there were a bunch of immature people saying that it was OK that the female characters looked like models and those who wanted more options were being "feminazis" and other sexist crap. Interestingly enough both those posters want to play Chua. Color me "unsurprised".

Seriously, Vanguard and Rift must be a real cess pits to make WS look better.

Maybe you caught it on a bad day.  I read that crafting thread you talked about and I have stayed away from it.  It is the worst thread I have seen on there with multiple people acting like idiots.  I read most of the threads there but that one I refuse to even read it as its so bad.   I think most of the good posters have avoided it as well.  One thing to keep in mind as well.  Its a slow news time.  There is a strong degree of agitation.  All the conventions are done.  Beta has been down 2 months now while they redo the core systems.  It is a very high anxiety time with people knowing there will be no news until we get a CB4 announcement.  Add in  lots  of new posters are there.  I see a lot of the normal posters not posting the last 3-4 weeks with a few new posters dominating.  So maybe what you say has some merit.  The last week I cannot recall a worthwhile thread that I have read.  Maybe there is simply nothing more to talk about as it has all been covered so many times.   But for a very long time WSC has been a great community.  If threads got bad or people were rude people would step in.  Bad behavior was not tolerated.  Maybe now is the time the community is shifting or maybe its just a blip until CB4 starts.

 

But I would stick with it.  There are many very nice people on WSC and it is the best source of info for WS by far.

  Mathadar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 24

10/10/13 12:51:29 AM#68
Originally posted by Thorkune
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Wighty

What a great read!

 

I sincerely hope this F2P bubble is over and we can have a sub renaissance! keeps the 70-80% leechers to put up or shut up!

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar-producer-exaggerated-death-subscription-mmos-free-plays-not-magic-bullet

The F2P bubble will never be over since it is the most lucrative business model for MMO's.  I suspect WS and ESO will go F2P within a year post release since as we all know the subscription model is dead but studios don't want to see it as such.

 

The only way subscriptions will ever stick around is through Studio's and Developers purposely building small niche style games where they expect a small hard core following.  Big Budget all-encompassing Subscription MMO's will never return.

I totally agree with this statement /\

I don't please provide facts to back up your statement. There is a reason all the AAA games are going sub and that is if the game is good and you can keep players you will make substantially more money with sub.  http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-top-10-highest-grossing-video-games-of-all-time-2012-6?op=1 . I fail to see any p2p mmos in this list.

  EvolvedMonky

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 562

10/10/13 2:39:08 PM#69
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

What TSW doesnt "fleece"??? Ya cause a box price + sub + a cash shop is just fair and honest.  

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5670

10/10/13 3:43:17 PM#70
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

What TSW doesnt "fleece"??? Ya cause a box price + sub + a cash shop is just fair and honest.  

The subscription and cash shop are optional. The box fee and xpacs are not. They launched with that model, but players didn't like it. Mandatory subscription + other fees is definitely a gouge, but that's no longer the case.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

10/10/13 6:38:07 PM#71
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Wighty

What a great read!

 

I sincerely hope this F2P bubble is over and we can have a sub renaissance! keeps the 70-80% leechers to put up or shut up!

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar-producer-exaggerated-death-subscription-mmos-free-plays-not-magic-bullet

The F2P bubble will never be over since it is the most lucrative business model for MMO's.  I suspect WS and ESO will go F2P within a year post release since as we all know the subscription model is dead but studios don't want to see it as such.

 

The only way subscriptions will ever stick around is through Studio's and Developers purposely building small niche style games where they expect a small hard core following.  Big Budget all-encompassing Subscription MMO's will never return.

That or change the prices of a sub...or make it yearly pay at 20-50 dollars, the chance would be higher than what it is now far as sub survival.

 

A matter of fact, to add on to my post few pages ahead, P2P games also take each other out, which is actually why niche p2p games survive longer(EVE and maybe FF).

Setting aside WoW which of course made it in time(Blizzard you lucky bastards lol)

When a P2P game comes out...great that's nice...but if it's a game that is obviously trying to be more than just a niche(WildStar,TESO...any others?) it'll only manage subs long as there is not another "Next big thing" coming out later. 

No one here is going to tell me that most people would pay 30 dollars a month...on two games.  I mean that's only if we are honest with ourselves.

It is possible for P2P to be alongside B2P and F2P...the issue is that P2P MMORPGs compete with each other mainly when the target is a broad audience.

Course maybe I was fooled and maybe Wildstar and TESO aren't even going for large amount of subs, least I hope not. But oh well maybe devs will learn in a few years.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Alverant

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 306

10/10/13 7:08:18 PM#72
Originally posted by stayontarget

Now getting back on topic.  I will not be playing WS because i don't feel its worth the sub fee.  I tend to prefer sub over f2p if its worth it.

I agree that sub is better than ftp. You're paying for a service instead of buying Zen or whatnot. Sci-fi MMOs are rare and I'm trying to give this one the benefit of the doubt. I think it has some interesting concepts. The game has a few more months before release to convince people to play it or not. It may change your mind or it may change my mind.

There's too much anger on the internet. I want a community that's not going to explode into insults if there's a disagreement or a "noob" question. I hope WS is it, if not I'll go elsewhere.

  Alverant

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 306

10/10/13 7:26:37 PM#73
Originally posted by Zapzap
Maybe you caught it on a bad day.  I read that crafting thread you talked about and I have stayed away from it.  It is the worst thread I have seen on there with multiple people acting like idiots.  I read most of the threads there but that one I refuse to even read it as its so bad.   I think most of the good posters have avoided it as well.  One thing to keep in mind as well.  Its a slow news time.  There is a strong degree of agitation.  All the conventions are done.  Beta has been down 2 months now while they redo the core systems.  It is a very high anxiety time with people knowing there will be no news until we get a CB4 announcement.  Add in  lots  of new posters are there.  I see a lot of the normal posters not posting the last 3-4 weeks with a few new posters dominating.  So maybe what you say has some merit.  The last week I cannot recall a worthwhile thread that I have read.  Maybe there is simply nothing more to talk about as it has all been covered so many times.   But for a very long time WSC has been a great community.  If threads got bad or people were rude people would step in.  Bad behavior was not tolerated.  Maybe now is the time the community is shifting or maybe its just a blip until CB4 starts.

 

But I would stick with it.  There are many very nice people on WSC and it is the best source of info for WS by far.

In my defense, it was my first post and I heard a beta recently closed. It seemed like the best time to ask the question. I'm not sure whether to be proud or shocked that it spawned 9 pages (last time I checked) of responses. I didn't intend for it to be a bad thread. I like crafting and the last to MMOs I played the crafting was ... lacking. If the topic was covered before, I thought enough changed to get an update.

I want a good community in a game. I played City of Heroes since its public release and the community was great (overall) and I want that again. WS isn't even out yet and new people are getting interested. I want to be able to ask questions, even if they've been asked months ago, without a Chua-at-heart going on about how crafters are casual players.

  funyahns

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/12
Posts: 313

10/11/13 12:30:17 AM#74
 A sub can still work out quite well. You just have to make a game that is fun to play at all stages.  The idea of f2p is not appealing, I won't play golf on a public course, certainly won't play with the riff raff on a f2p game.
  kurokayosama

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/13
Posts: 15

10/11/13 12:52:02 AM#75

I was quite looking forward to wildstar actually, till they dropped 4 nuclear bombs:

1 - trinity based gameplay.

2 - traditional raiding.

3 - gear treadmill.

4 - pay 2 play.

 

guess what carbine, most if not all the people that like that kind of BS are already playing that game, it's called wow !

It's 2013 not 1999, people may keep asking for the same shit to be made because people don't like change but than again people also do not like monotony, it's a paradox !

it's good that the people that want change to at least some degree actually outnumber the trapped in the past kind of person by a lot in this world, otherwise we'd be still playing super mario on nintendo.

go ahead carbine, make my day keep these bombs in your game :D

I will be laughing my ass off when it only reaches niche status fmuahahahahaha !

  firefly2003

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2571

I miss you Star Wars Galaxies...:(

10/11/13 4:27:42 AM#76
F2P games have a lot of trash players and undesirable people come into your game to troll, cheat, and most of the time complain about every  little thing. Playing several MMOs that have F2P and Sub options 90% of the F2P players were just horrible grouping with or just plain annoying. I have always preferred quality players over quantity.....
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

10/15/13 4:06:38 PM#77
Originally posted by firefly2003
F2P games have a lot of trash players and undesirable people come into your game to troll, cheat, and most of the time complain about every  little thing. Playing several MMOs that have F2P and Sub options 90% of the F2P players were just horrible grouping with or just plain annoying. I have always preferred quality players over quantity.....

So do p2p games. The worst kind of people i have met while playing mmo's was while playing wow, and that is a p2p game. Your point is completely moot and all i have to say to you to prove this is "world of warcraft".

  mysticaluna

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 250

10/30/13 8:32:10 AM#78

I have met really bad communitys on wow and everquest 1 / 2 when all 3 were pay to pay, however, Lord of the rings online as a niche pay to pay subscription game always had the best community. 

The spam bots and gold sellers are annoying, but wow proved even subscription based games have those, and final fantasy 11/final fantasy 14 both had gil seller spam bots as well with their subscription. So, you can't stop bad people or people buying gold by having a subscription. 

Thus, having a subscription only keeps players like me from playing your game, because I'm already paying for other games, and I can't afford to be paying 3 - 4 subscriptions every single month. 

It gets to the point where enough is enough, and you just have to go free to play or buy to play, because there's neither enough money for subscriptions, nor time to actually play the content. However, I do support buy to play, I'd buy the original game, buy expansions if I ever make it that far to need them, and then happily play for years on that. 

I like everyone else miss when content was earned through quests in game, instead of bought in the marketplace shop. When you could have cool mounts and companion pets, cool titles and rewards in game through working hard for them. 

When we actually used to get new quests and items for world events, and game updates that were fun and challenging! 

  Psion33

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/13
Posts: 257

10/30/13 8:40:30 AM#79

The chats here remind me of the freaking hillarious approach EVE took to "cattle run" the "elite" or "hardcore" players.

 

"Learn enough of our game, spend enough time in it per month, keep our numbers up and (through in game currency) we'll reward you with paying the game free for a month." LOL.

 

EVE is *the* game I point to when I point and remark on F2Pers. EVE has successfully turned F2Pers into the ideal "party fillers" and stocking stuffers.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4808

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

10/30/13 8:47:43 AM#80

Paying for themepark ?!

LOL

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