And will TOR eventually go the same road..

Just read this blog : http://blog.tp.org/chip/archives/002076.html

I think every serious MMO player should have read it, so they know what went wrong.

How much of this could fire back to SW:TOR in the end? 

BEcause Lucas Arts is still very much involved with this game.

SWG went wrong the moment Lucas Arts signed over the license to SOE for development.

TOR may be under the shadow of EA. But at least it isn't SOE.

It seems clear that the main reasons there was such a backlash against SOE/SWG was that they failed to engage with their core player base (the 'bread and butter' of the business) and thumbed their collective noses at the players. They changed the game from something people joined to play into a completely different game, this alienated most (all?) of the original players who had joined for different reasons and who were generally enjoying what they were doing.

Instead of concentrating on fixing the bugs and stabilising the game they tried to reinvent it as something completely different, without seeking the input of the people who ultimately paid their wages. Mistake.

I hope EA/BioWare/LucasArts heed the lessons and don't make the same mistakes - only time will tell.

WoW came out, SOE panicked, wanted to attracted more casual players because pre-NGE was a complex game if you were into crafting, NGE happened and game died. 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

So where did SWG go wrong? 

SOE.  /thread

Looking back, I believe that the corporate asshats got greedy. They saw the explosion of subs WOW was generating and decided to DUMB down the swg concept. Thus creating the motives for the NGE.

It was ultimately Smedley choking on Lucas Arts shlong that caused the irreversible effects of the downfall.

SOE alienated the players and the rest is history.

They never seemed to have a definitive roadmap for the game, or had any real clue as to where they wanted the game to go in the future, even before WoW came out. Once WoW came out they saw the potential sub base they could get, but their game was completely different and so they tried to change it. 

SWG had problems from day 1, and although it was a fun game before it went to hell, it still never felt like it was on a specific long term course. 

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

So where did SWG go wrong? 

SOE.  /thread

+1

Originally posted by grunt187

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

So where did SWG go wrong? 

SOE.  /thread

+1

You didn't even read the blog i posted.

As it was as much Lucas Arts (maybe even more then SOE) that went wrong.  And Lucas Art is as much part of SWTOR then it was of SWG.

blogs are just an opinion...so meh.

play it till you stop likeing it :D

The bigger problems started long before the change. They would have had a bigger player base in the beginning if they had focused more on the gameplay at the start. They ended up with a niche player base, which is still OK, but then you need to put more focus on what that niche wants, and give it to them. Instead they apparently focused on what other (new)players might want, and alienated a good chunk of their player base.

You can't really compare SWG to SWTOR. Different games, different focus. Plus, Bioware has had a working relationship with Lucas Arts, for years. They specifically created and used the Old Republic to give them the freedom that they needed to create a universe that is far less restrictive than what SWG had to deal with (SWG was set during the canon years).

Honestly I think longevity + sony is the main reason. I didn't actually play SWG, but just as a general opinion, wow is declining as well. It's been 8+ years .. maybe not long enough, but I think most mmos from that age are just not going to last anymore. And then there is the Sony thing and the major change in mechanics (which I know little to nothing about admittedly, but it seems to be a big topic whenever that game is brought up).

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

So where did SWG go wrong? 

SOE.  /thread

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by grunt187

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

So where did SWG go wrong? 

SOE.  /thread

+1

You didn't even read the blog i posted.

 

As it was as much Lucas Arts (maybe even more then SOE) that went wrong.  And Lucas Art is as much part of SWTOR then it was of SWG.

You are correct sir. LA is just as at fault as SoE, and in my defence i did try but wow thats really hard to read. (maby its the white on grey?)

Where did SWG go wrong huh?

Put it this way:  You buy yourself a nice new and shiney rolls royce, you drive that car and love it for three or four years and at the next service the garage takes it away and gives you a mini.

It went wrong when they released it about a year too soon.

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Originally posted by kiern
The bigger problems started long before the change. They would have had a bigger player base in the beginning if they had focused more on the gameplay at the start. They ended up with a niche player base, which is still OK, but then you need to put more focus on what that niche wants, and give it to them. Instead they apparently focused on what other (new)players might want, and alienated a good chunk of their player base.

You can't really compare SWG to SWTOR. Different games, different focus. Plus, Bioware has had a working relationship with Lucas Arts, for years. They specifically created and used the Old Republic to give them the freedom that they needed to create a universe that is far less restrictive than what SWG had to deal with (SWG was set during the canon years).

---

That's interesting. So it was an MMO based on a story, instead of TOR which is a story based on an MMO concent (many many jedi / sith).

Wasn't it something like before "the change", which again I know little about, jedi were "demigods" or something?

The game itself had so many good ideas that were amazing like the Profession system and seamless player housing. However SOE launched it a broken game and never fixed the problems, they just created more problems every patch and then ruined it with the CU and NGE. 

What is funny is back then everyone moaned about no space and how could they launch Star Wars without space. SWTOR is launching without space too and no one is complaining....

I don't count that linear mini game as space, I mean space you can travel and PVP in.

With Swg Lucas and Sony took a complex type game and attempted to dumb it down to be more wow like. Completly disregarding there niche market base they had built up. 

Now swtor was built from the ground up to be the game lucas wanted soe to deliver with the nge patch there is no reason to think that lucas is suddenly gonna say after launch hey lets make this a sandbox game now.

Originally posted by azmundai

 

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Originally posted by kiern
The bigger problems started long before the change. They would have had a bigger player base in the beginning if they had focused more on the gameplay at the start. They ended up with a niche player base, which is still OK, but then you need to put more focus on what that niche wants, and give it to them. Instead they apparently focused on what other (new)players might want, and alienated a good chunk of their player base.

 

You can't really compare SWG to SWTOR. Different games, different focus. Plus, Bioware has had a working relationship with Lucas Arts, for years. They specifically created and used the Old Republic to give them the freedom that they needed to create a universe that is far less restrictive than what SWG had to deal with (SWG was set during the canon years).

 

 

---

 

That's interesting. So it was an MMO based on a story, instead of TOR which is a story based on an MMO concent (many many jedi / sith).

Wasn't it something like before "the change", which again I know little about, jedi were "demigods" or something?

SWG was pretty much a sandbox game, complex and absorbing with the players given the usual sandbox tools to do with as they pleased.  This was in the days before WoW when 150k subs was considered good.  Along came WoW and smashed all records for an MMO.  The suits at SoE & Lucasarts wanted some WoW pie so they completely revamped SWG from a sandbox into a themepark.  To become a jedi in the original SWG took years of work to achieve and that was wiped out overnight, players could simply choose to create one at the start.  I had a 50/50 CH/BE ( thats creature handler / bio-engineer level 50 in each ), those two classes ceased to exist, again overnight.  One industry heavyweight called it the biggest shaft of a playerbase ever in MMO history; that was the NGE or new game experience.

What SoE and LA didn't count on was 90% of their players vanishing overnight as the subscription numbers fell to about 12k from the original 150k.