It seems to have been a busy couple of months for Bioware and Lucasarts. I've been checking news sources since March 2006 with increasing regularity for news of what is potentially a new Star Wars MMo.

Firstly as stated by Bioware on several occasions now there is no KOTOR 3. If and when they announce it it will be a single player affair with some possibility of network play. No official word has been given on this, its just plain common sense. Anytime someone challenges Bioware or Lucasarts with a question about Kotor3 or a Kotor MMo they'll just shrug and say they ain't working on it atm. At no point has anyone at Bioware denied working on a Star Wars MMo, they have only denied its Kotor3/KotorMMo to my knowledge.

The new Star Wars MMo, which Bioware Austin are working on. (providing you're prepared to believe disgruntled employees who may not have been directly involved with the project) is not Kotor and will not be titled so, but will be set in the Old republic thus providing conflict between sith and republic factions. I wouldn't like to guess at what point the game will be set, given there is something like 3000 years of relatively unexplored history between KOTOR2 and The Phantom Menace .

It is likely to be titled Star Wars: The Old Republic (with some pithy little catchline tba).  (The patent application is filed for this).  The title suggests a larger scale project then a simple shooter or an rts.  If I were George Lucas I wouldn't use up that title on anything less then a triple A title with the potential to land a large playerbase and a lifespan of several years.

Lastly the release date has slipped from 2009 to 2010 according to some Internet sources. The Star Wars TV series (Live action not animated) is also scheduled to screen in 2010. It would make sense for a new mmo to ride the success of renewed interest generated by a successful tv spin off.

This is not gospel, most of it is purely speculation on my part, driven by recent events in the gaming press. So i reserve the right to be wrong, it could be a Willow MMo after all.

Well, there is a cartoon movie coming soon based on the clone wars.....just saw the previews today in the theater!

 Feel free to check the link under my Sig for all the info I've been able to gather :)

Originally posted by DeaconX

 Feel free to check the link under my Sig for all the info I've been able to gather :)

Deac, time to give up on Bioware. Take a look at either Fallen Earth or Earthrise, both will be out long before Biowares game. Personally, I plan on playing Fallen Earth, closest thing to what we once had as far as i'm concerned. Earthrise a very close second.

I simply love Star Wars, so on one hand I have been excited about this for a long time. But since Bioware's CEO clearly says he love WoW and the Blizzard way of doing things, I can't imagine this game will be anything as good as Star Wars Galaxies.

I played Star Wars Galaxies pre CU/NGE. It had:

• player generated economy
• player vendors
• player buildings and cities
• vehicles (but not a launch)
• incredible crafting with shifting ressources
• open dungeons rather than instances
• rvr
• social classes like entertainers, forcing social time with shuttles or waiting for doctors.
• jedi wasn' in the game at the beginning and it was interesting to imagine who will be first (before the holo grind).
• Skill system rather than level
• Amazing character creation

So will Bioware offer a skill system or level? I am sure it will be level. And why KOTOR? Well so all the kids can be jedis and no one can complain.

So excuse me if I curb my enthusiasm. SWG was a fantastic game. I know it won't come back. But I can't let it go. Some day, some developer might do something similar again.

Can you imagine any developer right now make so much furniture for player houses? Or making social classes?

Bioware will probably do story-arc'ed hold-my-hand, LotRo-in-space, mmo complete with Star Wars theme parks, instances and catering to the wow crowd with arenas, battlegrounds and Raids (!!, yuck!!)..

Goodbye to SWG, goodbye to real open world gaming, goodbye to RPG and MASSIVE in mmorpg.

bye

I miss SWG, I finally relented and got a Jedi just before NGE went into Beta. I am unhappy that the time I spent had been wasted but I've got over it. I miss my TKM-CM combo, I miss the freedom I had in SWG to explore and hunt

SWG was a great concept, truly great but the execution was flawed, pre-CU we went through broken loot tables, mobs not spawning,  quests not working etc. Sometimes I think as Vets we forget that.

Bioware are making  a Star Wars MMO, I liked Kotor, Jade Empire, NWN and right now I am liking Mass Effect. It might be that the new game is a WoW rip off. It could be that a developer finally gets it right and makes a huge sandbox world and then fills it with gripping story arcs and one off quest that you get drawn into.

If Bioware can find the middle ground between games like EVE, SWG and WoW then I think they could have a game thats all things to all men. But if all I get is WoW with Wookies, then screw it I am still going to play it because I would rather be a Jawa then a Gnome.

Originally posted by Elvith

Bioware are making  a Star Wars MMO, I liked Kotor, Jade Empire, NWN and right now I am liking Mass Effect.

There is no doubt about it that Bioware is a very qualified game production company - i have played several of their games, one of the last being Mass Effect. I am however still not convinced that the supposed MMO is really a "pure" MMO. I think it will be more in the lines of a single player game with an evolved multi player (that's the MMO part). So i'm guessing along the lines of Hellgate: London perhaps?

But then again, i have never played Hellgate so is it a "pure" MMO like SWG, WoW or  AoC?

Originally posted by hdnine

Originally posted by Elvith

Bioware are making  a Star Wars MMO, I liked Kotor, Jade Empire, NWN and right now I am liking Mass Effect.

 

There is no doubt about it that Bioware is a very qualified game production company - i have played several of their games, one of the last being Mass Effect. I am however still not convinced that the supposed MMO is really a "pure" MMO. I think it will be more in the lines of a single player game with an evolved multi player (that's the MMO part). So i'm guessing along the lines of Hellgate: London perhaps?

But then again, i have never played Hellgate so is it a "pure" MMO like SWG, WoW or  AoC?

I am very afraid it will something akin of Hellgate: London too.

And we all know how well that went!

Originally posted by Draccan

I simply love Star Wars, so on one hand I have been excited about this for a long time. But since Bioware's CEO clearly says he love WoW and the Blizzard way of doing things, I can't imagine this game will be anything as good as Star Wars Galaxies.

I played Star Wars Galaxies pre CU/NGE. It had:

• player generated economy
• player vendors
• player buildings and cities
• vehicles (but not a launch)
• incredible crafting with shifting ressources
• open dungeons rather than instances
• rvr
• social classes like entertainers, forcing social time with shuttles or waiting for doctors.
• jedi wasn' in the game at the beginning and it was interesting to imagine who will be first (before the holo grind).
• Skill system rather than level
• Amazing character creation

So will Bioware offer a skill system or level? I am sure it will be level. And why KOTOR? Well so all the kids can be jedis and no one can complain.

So excuse me if I curb my enthusiasm. SWG was a fantastic game. I know it won't come back. But I can't let it go. Some day, some developer might do something similar again.

Can you imagine any developer right now make so much furniture for player houses? Or making social classes?

Bioware will probably do story-arc'ed hold-my-hand, LotRo-in-space, mmo complete with Star Wars theme parks, instances and catering to the wow crowd with arenas, battlegrounds and Raids (!!, yuck!!)..

Goodbye to SWG, goodbye to real open world gaming, goodbye to RPG and MASSIVE in mmorpg.

bye

 

 

 

sadly i think i have to agree here. i read somewhere else on mmorpg.com that TOR will be instanced sort of like AoC.

it will not have any sandbox type environment. Heavily scripted; do this go here type stuff. No free roaming.

If this is true, I just went from 'must buy' to 'must avoid'.

i guess there is always the swgemu...

on another note, i think they use the term mmorpg way too freely.

we all know what mmorpg means and what it is supposed to stand for. if what i am hearing about ToR is true, then it is not a true mmorpg. it is a mmofps with a spattering of other things to make it seem like a pure mmorpg, like the nge.

Originally posted by cepolly

 

sadly i think i have to agree here. i read somewhere else on mmorpg.com that TOR will be instanced sort of like AoC.

Yes, because those posts are going to have a lot of credibility -- there isn't even an official name to the game yet, let alone an Official announcement  (I don't consider the ceo's slip official -- let's see the press released) and now it's most certainly going to be instanced? C'mon...

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by cepolly

 

sadly i think i have to agree here. i read somewhere else on mmorpg.com that TOR will be instanced sort of like AoC.

 

Yes, because those posts are going to have a lot of credibility -- there isn't even an official name to the game yet, let alone an Official announcement  (I don't consider the ceo's slip official -- let's see the press released) and now it's most certainly going to be instanced? C'mon...

i hope you are right.

Originally posted by cepolly

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by cepolly

 

sadly i think i have to agree here. i read somewhere else on mmorpg.com that TOR will be instanced sort of like AoC.

 

Yes, because those posts are going to have a lot of credibility -- there isn't even an official name to the game yet, let alone an Official announcement  (I don't consider the ceo's slip official -- let's see the press released) and now it's most certainly going to be instanced? C'mon...

 

i hope you are right.

me too! 

My point is simply that there is no information to base any of this on and therefore no way to make an informed decision or even a reason to even waste energy pondering such things.  It's not as if the devs are going to read this board and decide to throw out their design document -- they're going to implement their vision and then release it.
 

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by cepolly

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by cepolly

 

sadly i think i have to agree here. i read somewhere else on mmorpg.com that TOR will be instanced sort of like AoC.

 

Yes, because those posts are going to have a lot of credibility -- there isn't even an official name to the game yet, let alone an Official announcement  (I don't consider the ceo's slip official -- let's see the press released) and now it's most certainly going to be instanced? C'mon...

 

i hope you are right.

me too! 

My point is simply that there is no information to base any of this on and therefore no way to make an informed decision or even a reason to even waste energy pondering such things.  It's not as if the devs are going to read this board and decide to throw out their design document -- they're going to implement their vision and then release it.
 

Come on. People KNOW things. I mean, look at BioWare. They've done games that work in certain ways, hence you know EXACTLY what to expect from -any- MMO they might make.

Seriously, how can you doubt people in this? I mean come on. They obviously know how the ball rolls. No reason to wait for announcements or stuff like that!

And on a more serious notice, yes, it's impossible to tell anything about the game yet (although many people would like to believe otherwise), but you can see BioWare and the games they've made and can see where their strengths are and you can -guess- they will play to those strengths. Then again, who knows. They might have something completely new for their first MMO.

Wait...I forgot! People on these boards know!!! Ah my mistake. XD

Originally posted by cepolly

on another note, i think they use the term mmorpg way too freely.

we all know what mmorpg means and what it is supposed to stand for. if what i am hearing about ToR is true, then it is not a true mmorpg. it is a mmofps with a spattering of other things to make it seem like a pure mmorpg, like the nge.

See this is the problem with speculating about something that hasn't even been presented to the public. Nobody but EA/LA/BioWare knows what they have and what they have not been developing.

There's definitly some articles that are floating around that contain speeches and insight on Rich Vogul and Gordon Walton's feelings and ideas on what they like and dislike about past and current mmo's.

We can all sit around and come up with a million reason's why the new SW mmo should be a SWG2 or anything that resembles pre-cu.

This type of thinking though, is backwards and non productive. I can only make an educated guess, that these guys want to make a new mmo that has innovation spewing out of it from every direction.

Some developers want to sit back and copy whatever is the hottest mmo on the market, which of course is WOW. Like i've always said, you can't out WOW, WOW. We have all seen how by being a follower and not a innovator, can turn a great IP or concept into a giant lame duck.

I loved SWG pre-cu. To be honest though, every other SW game i've played made me feel like i was more a part of the SW world than it ever could have.

For a simulation game, the origional SWG was top notch, even with the bugs and such. For bringing SW to life, it failed miserably.

If and this is a big if, this new SW mmo can capture both the story and lore of the immense SW world with allowing the players to either follow that story or make their own, with sandbox abilities, then it will be a huge step forward in the mmo genre and a huge win win for all SW fans.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by cepolly

on another note, i think they use the term mmorpg way too freely.

we all know what mmorpg means and what it is supposed to stand for. if what i am hearing about ToR is true, then it is not a true mmorpg. it is a mmofps with a spattering of other things to make it seem like a pure mmorpg, like the nge.

 

See this is the problem with speculating about something that hasn't even been presented to the public. Nobody but EA/LA/BioWare knows what they have and what they have not been developing.

There's definitly some articles that are floating around that contain speeches and insight on Rich Vogul and Gordon Walton's feelings and ideas on what they like and dislike about past and current mmo's.

We can all sit around and come up with a million reason's why the new SW mmo should be a SWG2 or anything that resembles pre-cu.

This type of thinking though, is backwards and non productive. I can only make an educated guess, that these guys want to make a new mmo that has innovation spewing out of it from every direction.

Some developers want to sit back and copy whatever is the hottest mmo on the market, which of course is WOW. Like i've always said, you can't out WOW, WOW. We have all seen how by being a follower and not a innovator, can turn a great IP or concept into a giant lame duck.

I loved SWG pre-cu. To be honest though, every other SW game i've played made me feel like i was more a part of the SW world than it ever could have.

For a simulation game, the origional SWG was top notch, even with the bugs and such. For bringing SW to life, it failed miserably.

If and this is a big if, this new SW mmo can capture both the story and lore of the immense SW world with allowing the players to either follow that story or make their own, with sandbox abilities, then it will be a huge step forward in the mmo genre and a huge win win for all SW fans.

 

I understand your points and agree with most.

But as someone else stated above you don't need their design docs to have a good idea of what they're going to do. I really hate Wow and how it seems to be the touchstone.

And this is the rumor room so this type of thinking is neither backward nor unproductive.

My hopes too, are for a truly immersive SW universe that takes in all the best of SWG.

Originally posted by kb056

Originally posted by DeaconX

 Feel free to check the link under my Sig for all the info I've been able to gather :)

 

Deac, time to give up on Bioware. Take a look at either Fallen Earth or Earthrise, both will be out long before Biowares game. Personally, I plan on playing Fallen Earth, closest thing to what we once had as far as i'm concerned. Earthrise a very close second.

Everything else is fail compared to Star Wars. Sorry, but I'll pass on generic sci-fi, thanks.

@Draccan: I agree bro. The thing is, they can make it less sandboxish and still deliver immersion. Bioware made THE best SW rpg ever created imo, and I believe they will do this mmo justice. It's really the last bone we have atm until swgemu comes through./crosses fingers

Bastal Ruul BH/TKM-Bria

I don't see Bioware dropping the ball on this on.  Of course SWG was orginally amazing!  But, it is hard to sustain a game like that long, as was seen in UO.  I think Bioware will learn from the mistakes made by Sony and capitalize with a great Star Wars MMO.  This game will have more trolls however than any MMO out there because it is Star Wars and because of all the pissed off former SWG players.  That you can count on.

If you like Star Wars and want to play an MMO, you either wait for SWGEmu, or SWTOR from BioWare.

BioWare stated their new MMO wont be a sandbox one, but they also said players will experience freedom of choices, never seen before in any other MMO's. They have around 20 core developes of the original SWG(they joined BioWare Austin along with Richar Vogel). Probably this means the game will have features, or enhanced features of SWG, plus a strongly story driven character developement - this wouldn't exactly be a sandbox game, but it still can be the game you can play.

SWG failed because the management didn't follow Raph Koster's vision(after he left the managemnt team right before the launch fo the game). Instead of adding content - quest lines, theme parks, dungeons - they made worng decisions, like Hologrind, preCU revamp, CU revamp, then NGE. SWGEmu may solve this with giving the possibility of adding new content into the game by the community. SWGEmu can be anything you ever wanted from SWG.

So we have two promising alternatives, but we have to wait for both and only God know for how long...

It won't be a MMO.  It's going to be a online RPG don't like Diablo 1 & 2 were done with the whole battle.net.