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Originally posted by Fishermage

I wonder why someone would even attempt to equate the two.

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beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it.

I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp.

Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger.

So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage

I wonder why someone would even attempt to equate the two.

---

beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it.

I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp.

Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger.

So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.

 

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Where have you ever seen or heard anyone at any time ever eqyate a combat system to character class anywhere other than in your own mind?

It's not about whether one is analytical or not; it is choosing to equate things that no one has ever equated anywhere at any time.

I'm just wondering where you ever got this idea; I have never seen anyone ever say this.

I have seen people define character classes by combat roles, I have seen many descriptions of how they relate to one another but I have never seen anyone anywhere try and say they are the same thing. If you are not analytical, and therefore didn't come up with this through your own analysis, where did yo get this idea from?

I certainly agree with the fact the professions have an impact on how a character relates to the combat system, but that the combat system, since it is applied to all classes, is not the same as a class/profession.

That said, I think, in your post, you highlights one of the problems with using "hybrid classes" to represent all the previous professions. When you stated "but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any profs" I think you opened my eyes to something. Pre-CU, I would have a role to play in a group or even just to strangers in the wild. Now, the dependency on my chosen profession has been destroyed by the fact anyone can perform those tasks. There is still a level dependency between combat and non-combat (crafting) classes, but the interdependency between combat professions seems greatly reduced or, in some cases, eliminated. The dependency that is there seems to have been dumbed down to more traditional roles of tank, dps, etc.

Naturally, take this with a grain of salt. I've only been back roughly a week (maybe just less then that) and been trying to wrap my head around the changes. My comments are based on my experience so far and tinkering with the different classes. As I stated, the closest  I have been able to get to my Master Ranger was BH so seems we came to a similat conclusion on that. Master Architect was easy enough to replicate via Structure Trader, so there are some classes that seem to correlate to Pre-CU/NGE professions.

So, with that all said, I just want to get back on track of my original (and now updated) point; For those who do not believe combat system and profession are one and the same, there has been more then just the significant change to combat that would turn them off to the current game. Reasons may include the combat system, professions, perceived inconsistencies with lore, changes to social options and the general current player demographic among other things. While there may be current tools that attempt to address these "issues", the fact these tools are required may constitute an unacceptable change to what any particular person enjoyed about the older version of the game. Since enjoyment is something subject to the tastes of each unique person, any justification that can be summed up as "well, it's the same, but different" might not have the desired influence.

Originally posted by Dkevlar

Enigma, i'll give you some advises that allowed me to actually play....

take chase camera off, - that will allow you to have the same type of camera movement we had in the past. that made probably the single most important change to me, since with chase camera on I simply could not play

then be sure to have the option to have actions fired from the toolbar

if you are into it, download a user pack that puts the "old ui" back in the game

I also remaped some of the mouse buttons.

depending on the power of your computer, max graphics... when i played swg for the first time, i had a ok computer but couldnt run the game with max gfx, now that i can, I see things i never saw on those years.

from what i have been understanding, they are slowly returning some elements of the "classical" SWG in terms of interface and gameplay options, tho they are not the default setting, so exploring the options tab fully sometimes allow one to recover something he guessed had been lost.

 

 

do  you have a link to the old fashion UI? That may help me out. I am not liking the new UI at all
 

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Dkevlar

Enigma, i'll give you some advises that allowed me to actually play....

take chase camera off, - that will allow you to have the same type of camera movement we had in the past. that made probably the single most important change to me, since with chase camera on I simply could not play

then be sure to have the option to have actions fired from the toolbar

if you are into it, download a user pack that puts the "old ui" back in the game

I also remaped some of the mouse buttons.

depending on the power of your computer, max graphics... when i played swg for the first time, i had a ok computer but couldnt run the game with max gfx, now that i can, I see things i never saw on those years.

from what i have been understanding, they are slowly returning some elements of the "classical" SWG in terms of interface and gameplay options, tho they are not the default setting, so exploring the options tab fully sometimes allow one to recover something he guessed had been lost.

 

 

do  you have a link to the old fashion UI? That may help me out. I am not liking the new UI at all
 

http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/forum/index.php

Specifically:
http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/infusions/pro_download_panel/download.php?catid=9

More Specifically:
http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/infusions/pro_download_panel/download.php?did=12

Most Specifically:
http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/infusions/pro_download_panel/file.php?did=12
 

Edit: Clickies.

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by trueswgvet

If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.

And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it?  New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.

If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.

I also have 30 days free and been playing few hours a day. I'm trying to do the legacy on Naboo but it is so boring. Is there no other way to level up? (I know the 10 missions per day from terminals)

Combat is still pretty horrible with all the flashing ball effects and npc running around almost lightspeed. Theres the slider for particle effects in options but that really doesn't help at all. The combat still looks ridiculous even if you set it to zero.

Originally posted by trueswgvet

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by trueswgvet

If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.

And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it?  New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.

If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.

The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P

Originally posted by japhez

Originally posted by trueswgvet

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by trueswgvet

If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.

And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it?  New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.

If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.

 

The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P

Please don't tell me they voted on the official forums?

Because we all know only the "vocal minority" goes there.

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage
 

I wonder why someone would even attempt to equate the two.

---

 
beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it.
I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp.
Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger.
So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.

 

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Where have you ever seen or heard anyone at any time ever eqyate a combat system to character class anywhere other than in your own mind?
It's not about whether one is analytical or not; it is choosing to equate things that no one has ever equated anywhere at any time.
I'm just wondering where you ever got this idea; I have never seen anyone ever say this.
I have seen people define character classes by combat roles, I have seen many descriptions of how they relate to one another but I have never seen anyone anywhere try and say they are the same thing. If you are not analytical, and therefore didn't come up with this through your own analysis, where did yo get this idea from?

 

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 well now you have seen another way that some people might look at it. Its not a sin and it doesn't change what is its how I define it. I dont have a tendancy to use a lot of the jargon a lot of people use but that's just me and who I am. So that's life that is how I see it and that is how I play the game. My BH is a rifleman who hunts skins and pitches tents. My medic is a combat medic with the rifleman expertise tree. They essentially work the way I want them too and that's that. Its not realy a debatable issue its how people perceive things in their own right and how they have molded a game to suit them to make them happy. That is how I play my guys and I"m happy and I call my bh a rifleman and my medic a combat medic and all is well with the world. To me it was pretty much a change in combat configuration and not much more. I have no wish to convince you that your interpretation is not correct or to accuse you of obfuscation or whatnot I would ask the same kind of respect in return. This is MY opinion and perception of the game changes not yours. You can have yours and I have mine and that's that.