Originally posted by MrListerSir

 

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

The fact is. pre-CU vets have changed the entire industry and have prevented SOE from having a successful game since.

 

 

[MOD EDIT]

SOE will never have a sucessful PC title ever, ever, again. man, look at vanguard, their dc mmo if it doesn't go to console will be empty, watch and see, and it's all because of SWG. SOE hasn't realized it's not the big kid on the block anymore and no one wants to put up with their bs, they are a peanuts company now and good for them, they deserve it. the only people still playing their buggy crap are the addicts that haven't woken up to how a real company treats their customers and real games.

Honestly, if it's lame and has overt levels, I want nothing to do with it.

I want to be able to group and advance with more advanced players.  And less advanced players.

I'm sick to death of level systems.

The game needs to be skill based, it needs to be non-linear, it needs to be fun and engaging, it needs to allow for exploration and growth in an organic manner, not in one dreamed up over coffee and donuts in a conference room somewhere.

It needs to be a virtual world, not an obvious game.

Oh, and it shouldn't be half-baked upon going gold like nearly every other MMO out there nowadays.

Yes, I'm a dreamer.

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Sorry, but it is you who are kidding yourself. The fact is. pre-CU vets have changed the entire industry and have prevented SOE from having a successful game since.

 

The fact that SOE has not given in and ammended their ethical mistake has hurt them.

Also, every new game that has come along has had to promise they will never do what SOE did.

As I said to the other guy, watch and learn.

That isn't fact, it's your opinion. I've yet to see any proof whatsoever that the pre-CU vets (of which, incidentally, I am one - I simply moved on to play other games and have never involved myself in the rather pointless ranting against SOE) have had any effect on anything other than the population figures of SWG itself (and that itself is arguable).

Watch and learn? For how long? It's been YEARS and what exactly have you achieved? And show me where AoC, PotBS or in fact *any* new MMO has explicitly promised 'not to do what SOE did'. And how can you argue (i.e. - present tangible proof to the fact) that EQ2 does not continue to enjoy success or that the vets have caused it any damage in the least?

You seem so blinded by your anger that it hardly seems worth debating the issue with you any more - lets face it, no matter what is said here you'll continue to believe that the 'pre-CU vets' are somehow guiding the MMO industry despite the fact the vast majority of MMO players probably haven't ever visited a games forum for anything other than tech help and have no idea what you guys are even arguing about.

Originally posted by the_lizard

SOE will never have a sucessful PC title ever, ever, again. man, look at vanguard, their dc mmo if it doesn't go to console will be empty, watch and see, and it's all because of SWG. SOE hasn't realized it's not the big kid on the block anymore and no one wants to put up with their bs, they are a peanuts company now and good for them, they deserve it. the only people still playing their buggy crap are the addicts that haven't woken up to how a real company treats their customers and real games.

*sigh* Vanguard wasn't a SOE game when it started to fail (in fact it is argued elsewhere that SOE are improving it).

As for 'people playing their buggy crap' and them 'never having a successful PC title' I can only assume you have never heard of EQ2? Or are you just discounting that one because it doesn't fit with your view?

Originally posted by Kesran

 

Originally posted by the_lizard

SOE will never have a sucessful PC title ever, ever, again. man, look at vanguard, their dc mmo if it doesn't go to console will be empty, watch and see, and it's all because of SWG. SOE hasn't realized it's not the big kid on the block anymore and no one wants to put up with their bs, they are a peanuts company now and good for them, they deserve it. the only people still playing their buggy crap are the addicts that haven't woken up to how a real company treats their customers and real games.

 

*sigh* Vanguard wasn't a SOE game when it started to fail (in fact it is argued elsewhere that SOE are improving it).

As for 'people playing their buggy crap' and them 'never having a successful PC title' I can only assume you have never heard of EQ2? Or are you just discounting that one because it doesn't fit with your view?

the bar has been raised to what a successful mmo is. this is the 21st century, in the 21st century no eq2 is not a successful mmo. uhh and yeah vanguard is SOE trash, i don't remember any other publisher releasing it before?

look at SOE plummet www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

oh and EQ1 was more successful in its day than swg or eq2 combined, back when SOE created their rep and were the big fish.

Originally posted by the_lizard

 

the bar has been raised to what a successful mmo is. this is the 21st century, in the 21st century no eq2 is not a successful mmo. uhh and yeah vanguard is SOE trash, i don't remember any other publisher releasing it before?

 

look at SOE plummet www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

oh and EQ1 was more successful in its day than swg or eq2 combined, back when SOE created their rep and were the big fish.

So if you don't class EQ2 as a successful mmo, I assume you only class WoW as such?

Incidentally, Vanguard was originall developed and co-published by Sigil Online - it was only several months after the release that SOE took over sole publishing rights, and by then the game was already in trouble.

Originally posted by Kesran

 

Originally posted by the_lizard

 

the bar has been raised to what a successful mmo is. this is the 21st century, in the 21st century no eq2 is not a successful mmo. uhh and yeah vanguard is SOE trash, i don't remember any other publisher releasing it before?

 

look at SOE plummet www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

oh and EQ1 was more successful in its day than swg or eq2 combined, back when SOE created their rep and were the big fish.

 

So if you don't class EQ2 as a successful mmo, I assume you only class WoW as such?

Incidentally, Vanguard was originall developed and co-published by Sigil Online - it was only several months after the release that SOE took over sole publishing rights, and by then the game was already in trouble.

They aren't even in the same class, strange that we're approaching an age in mmo's that has seen more players than ever and the younger generation grow up with this age. my 8 year old son plays mmo's, (wow guild wars) and the only thing SOE can do is crash on a graph, that's not success. what happened around 2005? as soon as SOE was announced as the publisher for vanguard people ran away like the plague, it's not going to get better.

Originally posted by the_lizard

They aren't even in the same class, strange that we're approaching an age in mmo's that has seen more players than ever and the younger generation grow up with this age. my 8 year old son plays mmo's, (wow guild wars) and the only thing SOE can do is crash on a graph, that's not success. what happened around 2005? as soon as SOE was announced as the publisher for vanguard people ran away like the plague, it's not going to get better.

What happened around 2005? Blizzard released WoW - as you can see from the chart you linked too, every game seemed to suffer a drop in numbers around that time. Incidentally, the chart only takes EQ2 as far as 2007 but even then it seems to be only beaten on player numbers by a couple of games. How do you not class that as successful (and which MMo's do you call successful then?). In fact, according to that data the original EQ was still outperforming many of the newer MMO's in 2007 (again the data only goes that far for that game).

I'm sorry we disagree, but I just don't think SOE are doing all that badly compared to other publishers out there (with the exeption of Blizzard who must be raking it in :) )

Originally posted by Kesran

 

Originally posted by the_lizard

They aren't even in the same class, strange that we're approaching an age in mmo's that has seen more players than ever and the younger generation grow up with this age. my 8 year old son plays mmo's, (wow guild wars) and the only thing SOE can do is crash on a graph, that's not success. what happened around 2005? as soon as SOE was announced as the publisher for vanguard people ran away like the plague, it's not going to get better.

 

What happened around 2005? Blizzard released WoW - as you can see from the chart you linked too, every game seemed to suffer a drop in numbers around that time. Incidentally, the chart only takes EQ2 as far as 2007 but even then it seems to be only beaten on player numbers by a couple of games. How do you not class that as successful (and which MMo's do you call successful then?). In fact, according to that data the original EQ was still outperforming many of the newer MMO's in 2007 (again the data only goes that far for that game).

I'm sorry we disagree, but I just don't think SOE are doing all that badly compared to other publishers out there (with the exeption of Blizzard who must be raking it in :) )

another graph www.mmogchart.com/Chart4.html

your going to see this trend continue until sony chops off SOE or they move out of the PC market entirely.

Originally posted by the_lizard

 

you got it all wrong, pretty much only the SOE games crash on the graph, the other's go up. saying blizzard released wow in 2005 doesn't wash there's plenty to go around, crap more kids play runescape than ever played everquest.  wow didn't kill SOE, SOE killed SOE. it's just a small part of a huge corporation with huge purchasing power and bad ethics... bad combo.

 

another graph www.mmogchart.com/Chart4.html

your going to see this trend continue until sony chops off SOE or they move out of the PC market entirely.

According to the those charts friend, EQ1 & 2 were still in 2007 attracting more subscribers than most ofthe other MMO's listed. The date for EQ2 in fact ends with it undergoing an upswing. I imagine the recent expansions have also helped maintain that, but of course I don't know.

Who killed SOE? No-one, is the answer to that. They continue to develop games for the PC and Playstation 3. You must have noticed?

Originally posted by Kesran

 

Originally posted by the_lizard

 

you got it all wrong, pretty much only the SOE games crash on the graph, the other's go up. saying blizzard released wow in 2005 doesn't wash there's plenty to go around, crap more kids play runescape than ever played everquest.  wow didn't kill SOE, SOE killed SOE. it's just a small part of a huge corporation with huge purchasing power and bad ethics... bad combo.

 

another graph www.mmogchart.com/Chart4.html

your going to see this trend continue until sony chops off SOE or they move out of the PC market entirely.

 

According to the those charts friend, EQ1 & 2 were still in 2007 attracting more subscribers than the other MMO's listed. The date for EQ2 in fact ends with it undergoing an upswing. I imagine the recent expansions have also helped maintain that, but of course I don't know.

Who killed SOE? No-one, is the answer to that. They continue to develop games for the PC and Playstation 3. You must have noticed?

than the other mmo's listed... that's only the 70-700k chart check the 200k+ chart. we can basically argue about this all day but you can clearly see that SOE games are in decline while other developers games are gaining subs... and as more developers come on the scene SOE will continue to lose subs, as the population off mmo subscribers increases, it's simple. the PC market is through with them.