Originally posted by WhiteLantern

I guess it does show that not all gold farmers/sellers are from Asia.

Most EU gold farmers are Russians. Just look at EVE for example. Each area has their "suppliers".

Based on my SWG experience, I think I met this person once. This person probably operated on my server based on his description of his Coronet analysis (A billionaire owned the best Coronet malls who made a lot of real $$ from SWG), and I'm forever grateful for his efforts.

Why am I grateful? Because he did us a SERVICE. Not only did I probably spend $10 getting credits from him to get my own operation started (which saved me ENORMOUS amounts of time), but his amazing mall layouts breathed life into that city. A friend of mine eventually convinced him we'd be the best Shipwright vendor in Coronet, and once he leased us a prominent vendor spot, we got easily 100 times the viewing exposure we got at the other 6 vendors we had combined. Sure, he shaved off of my profits, and I plunked down $10 to start my SWG experience, but I made so much money in so little time that I was no longer mining/prospecting/crafting full time anymore and was finally able to spend much more of my time PvPing in Deep space with the best ship components on the server.

He without doubt jumpstarted my SWG experience more than any other player. Even more than my guild.

This person (and people like him) did not destroy anything. He took a valuable area and made it extremely efficient for all. A tangible service was provided, and we paid for it instead of traveling to the backward areas to get what we wanted.

The guy probably made a few credits from 2 accounts and sold some to someone in China.

6-7 years later the memory of the event evolves into an "interesting read".

Originally posted by yevoc42

Based on my SWG experience, I think I met this person once. This person probably operated on my server based on his description of his Coronet analysis (A billionaire owned the best Coronet malls who made a lot of real $$ from SWG), and I'm forever grateful for his efforts.

Why am I grateful? Because he did us a SERVICE. Not only did I probably spend $10 getting credits from him to get my own operation started (which saved me ENORMOUS amounts of time), but his amazing mall layouts breathed life into that city. A friend of mine eventually convinced him we'd be the best Shipwright vendor in Coronet, and once he leased us a prominent vendor spot, we got easily 100 times the viewing exposure we got at the other 6 vendors we had combined. Sure, he shaved off of my profits, and I plunked down $10 to start my SWG experience, but I made so much money in so little time that I was no longer mining/prospecting/crafting full time anymore and was finally able to spend much more of my time PvPing in Deep space with the best ship components on the server.

He without doubt jumpstarted my SWG experience more than any other player. Even more than my guild.

 

This person (and people like him) did not destroy anything. He took a valuable area and made it extremely efficient for all. A tangible service was provided, and we paid for it instead of traveling to the backward areas to get what we wanted.

So then, You broke the ELUA too?

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by MMOarQQ

Originally posted by Yamota

When did PC games become for lazy and low achievers? This was not always the case.

INB4 someone whines about having no time to play because of his 3 kids, wife and dead end job.

 

There should be no complex games available because of ME ME ME

These forums are becoming too difficult to operate. I demand that you simplifiy them, and consider the fact I don't have more than a  few minutes to browse them each day. I still want the same feeling I get from a hard day of trolling though.

Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.

Originally posted by Lowcaian

Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.

I agree.

Sand Boxes are less about dedicated blocks of time and more about the overall time invested as a whole. Even if in smaller chunks.

Originally posted by Lowcaian

Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.

A quick note before I get on to my real point below; I loved that the author mentioned the holo grind.  Why?  Because I had a blast doing it.  You can complain about the grind if you want, but I loved killing mobs, and I loved trying the different professions I had to do to get there.  By the time I unlocked my Jedi slot (that I never used, by the way), I had played professions I never would have otherwise such as Entertainer, Doctor, Weaponsmith, Armorsmith and others.  I simply never thought of anything I did in this game as a "grind" in the negative sense of the word as it is used today.  Sure it was a grind, but I had so much fun all the time, that I can't complain about it at all.

--------

While I was never a gold farmer or anything like that, I LOVED running a shop in that game.  It was a real revelation for me after having spent the previous 5+ years playing FPS capture the flag and deathmatch games (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Tribes, etc).  Even when I was allowed into SWG beta, I had no idea what I was signing up for having never played an MMO before.  I had no idea that my entire view of video gaming was going to be changed.  I had no idea that I was beginning a virtual life.

Crafting and trade wasn't some simple thing you did with a bit of time. It was a whole gameplay system that you could get lost in for days or weeks. I often did.  I would switch back and forth between my Master Weaponsmith and my combat toon, and somtimes I would just parky my combat toon for weeks and concentrate on crafting and social aspects of the game.  I made a lot of credits, met and made friends with a lot of great people, and had a blast expanding my business or buying expensive things for my combat alt. I loved decorating my homes and shops, and I loved being in a player built city that changed and evolved as our empire grew.

I like this article, not because of the gold farming, but because it gives you a glimpse of the depth a good, or even mediocre sandbox game can give you.  Even non-role players like me were always in a semi-state of role playing in that game, because it was the nature of it.  That's what I want back more than anything.  I want the sense of community, the emmersion, the feeling of actually living in a virtual world.  What we have now in most themepark games can't hold a candle to this in my opinion.

I know I will have a great time playing GW2, but there are games that get me more excited.  I'm hoping we get a publisher here in the West so we can try ArchAge.  I'm following a couple indy sandboxes too, sich as The Repopulation, and Pathfinder.  The fact of the matter for me was that my sandbox experience in SWG ruined me for most MMO games because I know how much more depth, involvement, and community there can be.  SWG, with all its many flaws, was capable of delivering on the promise of putting your brain firmly in an alternate reality because it could occupy all your senses.  Contrast that with themepark games that I often play while watching a movie on my other screen because they are so one-dimensional and simple.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

    Originally posted by yevoc42

    

Based on my SWG experience, I think I met this person once. This person probably operated on my server based on his description of his Coronet analysis (A billionaire owned the best Coronet malls who made a lot of real $$ from SWG), and I'm forever grateful for his efforts.

    

    Why am I grateful? Because he did us a SERVICE. Not only did I probably spend $10 getting credits from him to get my own operation started (which saved me ENORMOUS amounts of time), but his amazing mall layouts breathed life into that city. A friend of mine eventually convinced him we'd be the best Shipwright vendor in Coronet, and once he leased us a prominent vendor spot, we got easily 100 times the viewing exposure we got at the other 6 vendors we had combined. Sure, he shaved off of my profits, and I plunked down $10 to start my SWG experience, but I made so much money in so little time that I was no longer mining/prospecting/crafting full time anymore and was finally able to spend much more of my time PvPing in Deep space with the best ship components on the server.

    

He without doubt jumpstarted my SWG experience more than any other player. Even more than my guild.

    

 

    

This person (and people like him) did not destroy anything. He took a valuable area and made it extremely efficient for all. A tangible service was provided, and we paid for it instead of traveling to the backward areas to get what we wanted.

So then, You broke the ELUA too?

I paid $10 for 1 mil creds about a week after I started playing.  That was probably breaking the EULA.  Otherwise, no.  I got a very good vendor spot in Coronet mall.  That's hardly an exploit of any kind.  The building owner (presumably the article writer) took a significant chunk of my profits, but the location/layout was picture perfect.

My point is, anyone can squat on digital real estate, but he put an enormous amount of effort into his land, and everyone benefited from it.  After I made tens of millions of credits, I eventually sold my ship items at his mall way below competitive prices, and he didn't replace my vendor despite the obvious drop in profit.  If he were a purely evil jerk like everyone may be led to believe, he surely wouldn't have let that go on for so long.

Originally posted by Lowcaian

Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.

Winner point here.

And while people like Dawwgy or MissIntrepid did exist.. there were large groups that went out of their way to hunt down and get banned the gold farmers/sellers.

Originally posted by MindTrigger
While I was never a gold farmer or anything like that, I LOVED running a shop in that game.  It was a real revelation for me after having spent the previous 5+ years playing FPS capture the flag and deathmatch games (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Tribes, etc).  Even when I was allowed into SWG beta, I had no idea what I was signing up for having never played an MMO before.  I had no idea that my entire view of video gaming was going to be changed.  I had no idea that I was beginning a virtual life.

 

If you had told me that I was going to love, no, become obsessed with being a trader in a video game, I would have simply laughed.  All I did was shoot people, defend the flag, and I was really damned good at it.  In SWG, I loved the whole trader process.  I loved surveying and placing extraction equipment on the best resources I could find as much as I did making my rounds every few days to pick up the fruits of my labor so I could build things. I spent hours doing this, and there was also a built in element of exploration and danger from mobs. I loved chatting with friends while crafting in my "shop" which was usually a back room in one of my stores.  I left helping people find things, and taking orders for things I didn't have in stock, and selling resources I couldn't use myself.   I could go on and on.  

 

Crafting and trade wasn't some simple thing you did with a bit of time. It was a whole gameplay system that you could get lost in for days or weeks. I often did.  I would switch back and forth between my Master Weaponsmith and my combat toon, and somtimes I would just parky my combat toon for weeks and concentrate on crafting and social aspects of the game.  I made a lot of credits, met and made friends with a lot of great people, and had a blast expanding my business or buying expensive things for my combat alt. I loved decorating my homes and shops, and I loved being in a player built city that changed and evolved as our empire grew.

 

I like this article, not because of the gold farming, but because it gives you a glimpse of the depth a good, or even mediocre sandbox game can give you.  Even non-role players like me were always in a semi-state of role playing in that game, because it was the nature of it.  That's what I want back more than anything.  I want the sense of community, the emmersion, the feeling of actually living in a virtual world.  What we have now in most themepark games can't hold a candle to this in my opinion.

This. That indepth, even risky,  'simulation' content (non-combatant activities/professions) that could be added to an MMO is the glue that can a bind community together  long-term in an MMO, and I believe SWG's history attests to that. Sadly, easy internet access and the flood of 'casual' gamers with loose wallets seem to have made game developers focus on on the easy $$$$$ instead of quality gaming.

Originally posted by hipiap

Originally posted by Lowcaian

Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.

Winner point here.

 

 

And while people like Dawwgy or MissIntrepid did exist.. there were large groups that went out of their way to hunt down and get banned the gold farmers/sellers.

The skill box system is far more intuitive than the talent tree system as well, you just pick the profession/class you want and go up the boxes to the master profession you want. You can ignore and of that and just pick skills you like the look of, as long as you aren't in PVP then it'll work for you in PVE.

SWGs problem was no one could run the game at a stable frame rate when it came out because of the horrible engine it was on. I had so many friends try the game and quit because their FPS was like 5. When you combine the horrible shallow tutorial that didn't show you anything it was so hard to get in to. When the game launched you had to run everywhere, even when vehicles and mounts got released you had to do the same until you saved like 10-20K of credits.  You also have to remember these were the days of terrain negotiation so it was so broken for new players.

All they had to do was fix this experience for new players and give them a good tutorial to get them into the game and show them all the kool things like player housing.

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by hipiap

Originally posted by Lowcaian

Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.

Winner point here.

 

 

And while people like Dawwgy or MissIntrepid did exist.. there were large groups that went out of their way to hunt down and get banned the gold farmers/sellers.

The skill box system is far more intuitive than the talent tree system as well, you just pick the profession/class you want and go up the boxes to the master profession you want. You can ignore and of that and just pick skills you like the look of, as long as you aren't in PVP then it'll work for you in PVE.

SWGs problem was no one could run the game at a stable frame rate when it came out because of the horrible engine it was on. I had so many friends try the game and quit because their FPS was like 5. When you combine the horrible shallow tutorial that didn't show you anything it was so hard to get in to. When the game launched you had to run everywhere, even when vehicles and mounts got released you had to do the same until you saved like 10-20K of credits.  You also have to remember these were the days of terrain negotiation so it was so broken for new players.

All they had to do was fix this experience for new players and give them a good tutorial to get them into the game and show them all the kool things like player housing.

Oh god yes...that Engine Sucked Hardcore.  But it was the Aurora Engine as I recall, one of the first major attempts to 3 D Model.

Not that TOR's Hero Engine is much better....reminds me of WOW with blasters FFS.

Originally posted by MMOarQQ

Originally posted by Yamota

When did PC games become for lazy and low achievers? This was not always the case.

INB4 someone whines about having no time to play because of his 3 kids, wife and dead end job.

Noone complained about this years ago now it is just a excuse for developers to make dumbed downs for players who just want it easy for them, also on that note years ago we didn't hear about economics, markets, mass appeal, and sub numbers in every thread or topic in MMO threads, it was just the joy of playing or ideas or criticisms over patches, now it seems everyone is a armchair lawyer, investor, economist on these and other boards.

Originally posted by Kazara

Originally posted by MindTrigger
While I was never a gold farmer or anything like that, I LOVED running a shop in that game.  It was a real revelation for me after having spent the previous 5+ years playing FPS capture the flag and deathmatch games (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Tribes, etc).  Even when I was allowed into SWG beta, I had no idea what I was signing up for having never played an MMO before.  I had no idea that my entire view of video gaming was going to be changed.  I had no idea that I was beginning a virtual life.

 

If you had told me that I was going to love, no, become obsessed with being a trader in a video game, I would have simply laughed.  All I did was shoot people, defend the flag, and I was really damned good at it.  In SWG, I loved the whole trader process.  I loved surveying and placing extraction equipment on the best resources I could find as much as I did making my rounds every few days to pick up the fruits of my labor so I could build things. I spent hours doing this, and there was also a built in element of exploration and danger from mobs. I loved chatting with friends while crafting in my "shop" which was usually a back room in one of my stores.  I left helping people find things, and taking orders for things I didn't have in stock, and selling resources I couldn't use myself.   I could go on and on.  

 

Crafting and trade wasn't some simple thing you did with a bit of time. It was a whole gameplay system that you could get lost in for days or weeks. I often did.  I would switch back and forth between my Master Weaponsmith and my combat toon, and somtimes I would just parky my combat toon for weeks and concentrate on crafting and social aspects of the game.  I made a lot of credits, met and made friends with a lot of great people, and had a blast expanding my business or buying expensive things for my combat alt. I loved decorating my homes and shops, and I loved being in a player built city that changed and evolved as our empire grew.

 

I like this article, not because of the gold farming, but because it gives you a glimpse of the depth a good, or even mediocre sandbox game can give you.  Even non-role players like me were always in a semi-state of role playing in that game, because it was the nature of it.  That's what I want back more than anything.  I want the sense of community, the emmersion, the feeling of actually living in a virtual world.  What we have now in most themepark games can't hold a candle to this in my opinion.

This. That indepth, even risky,  'simulation' content (non-combatant activities/professions) that could be added to an MMO is the glue that can a bind community together  long-term in an MMO, and I believe SWG's history attests to that. Sadly, easy internet access and the flood of 'casual' gamers with loose wallets seem to have made game developers focus on on the easy $$$$$ instead of quality gaming.

Hasn't been working out too well for them lately, and if it does its only in short term.