Originally posted by smg77

Also after SOE loaned Sigil a bunch of money they put a ton of pressure on Brad and company to release the game before it was ready. SOE didn't develop Vanguard but it certainly had a hand in it's disastrous launch.

As it stands now over a year after launch its not perfect,far from it but its 100% better than the mess Sigil left it in,blame SOE for most things but in Vanguards case its a better game for thier involvement,the only shame is that the current dev team didnt make it from the off becuase simply given the world and the size of it it would have been a hell of a game (probably the closest thing to SWG size wise),but as i say SOE wanted to see some return on thier investment (as no doubt did Sigils other investors) but in no way were brad and merry band of idiots capable of bringing a game to market in stable state..SOE's dev team have taken the patient and brought it off the life support system sadly though all a bit to late IMO.

But for vanguards woes blame Brad and Sigil not SOE.

Originally posted by fozzie22

 

Originally posted by smg77

Also after SOE loaned Sigil a bunch of money they put a ton of pressure on Brad and company to release the game before it was ready. SOE didn't develop Vanguard but it certainly had a hand in it's disastrous launch.

Enough is enough..Vanguard needed more or less another 2 years solid devolpment time to get it in a stable state..do you think,honesly Sigil could have done it? i played the beta early on and i know how bad it was,Sigil ate money and after 6 years of dev time it still wasnt ready MS saw the light and bailed on it SOE came in gave yet more money but wanted it out fast (a mistake but it was thier call) otherwise it was nothing more than vapourware.

 

 

As it stands now over a year after launch its not perfect,far from it but its 100% better than the mess Sigil left it in,blame SOE for most things but in Vanguards case its a better game for thier involvement,the only shame is that the current dev team didnt make it from the off becuase simply given the world and the size of it it would have been a hell of a game (probably the closest thing to SWG size wise),but as i say SOE wanted to see some return on thier investment (as no doubt did Sigils other investors) but in no way were brad and merry band of idiots capable of bringing a game to market in stable state..SOE's dev team have taken the patient and brought it off the life support system sadly though all a bit to late IMO.

 

But for vanguards woes blame Brad and Sigil not SOE.

and i think if ncsoft, or blizzard, or turbine, or mythic, or..... anyone else published the game and released it early people would have actually played it.

"and i think if ncsoft, or blizzard, or turbine, or mythic, or..... anyone else published the game and released it early people would have actually played it."

I don't think that is the case, otherwise TR would have many more subs :)

Sorry as you can see by my post count and time here on these forums,  I don't post much, so i went with the whole copy and paste method to quote. 

The fact is, we'll never know exactly WHY Vanguard failed, and WHY PotBS is failing; certainly it is a combination of factors. Either way, SOE has not produced a winner since the NGE.

We'll have to wait and see if the Agency turns them around, or DC. Eother way the NGE has certainly hurt them, hurt them badly. Shrinking market share, flat or falling current games, and no new successes. Doesn't sound so hot no matter how you look at it.

and i think if ncsoft, or blizzard, or turbine, or mythic, or..... anyone else published the game and released it early people would have actually played it.

I'll say it again the sheer scale of VG was/is imense but just so poorly implimented and thats the crying shame,and for that reason Brad and his merry gang should still be hanging thier heads in shame.

On a side note SOE havent directly made a game post NGE have they? published for sure but not MADE any games,theres a big difference as mentioned the agency will be the game to watch how good/bad it is as they will have actually coded it from the ground up.

Originally posted by LynxRufus

If it's skill based, sandbox, sure.

If it's WOW with a KOTOR skin, no.

 

The flexible skill tree, mix of crafting and combat, not being locked 100% to one character class and the whole sandbox thing was what made SWG work for me.

I have to say that I would be VERY wary of another Star Wars MMO due to the SoE experience even if it made by BioWare. 

SoE = Bad - BioWare = Good (subject to testing and approvals) - LOL

If this true then I really wish BioWare well - but please make sure they read this forum and give us what we want!!!!

(After all as a radio presenter here in the UK said about a popular TV show that was cancelled - "The problem with it was only the viewers liked it")

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Originally posted by fozzie22

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and i think if ncsoft, or blizzard, or turbine, or mythic, or..... anyone else published the game and released it early people would have actually played it.

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Blizzard wouldnt have released it in the state it came out in..but the big difference is this Blizzard can code games..Sigil couldnt and thats why Vanguard failed.
 
I'll say it again the sheer scale of VG was/is imense but just so poorly implimented and thats the crying shame,and for that reason Brad and his merry gang should still be hanging thier heads in shame.
 
On a side note SOE havent directly made a game post NGE have they? published for sure but not MADE any games,theres a big difference as mentioned the agency will be the game to watch how good/bad it is as they will have actually coded it from the ground up.

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It is an interesting side not that they haven't made a game since the NGE. Why do you suppose that's the case? Could it be because they know their name is mud?

If just acquiring and publishing games stains them enough they do poorly, what will an all-SOE game do? Only time will tell.

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by fozzie22

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and i think if ncsoft, or blizzard, or turbine, or mythic, or..... anyone else published the game and released it early people would have actually played it.

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Blizzard wouldnt have released it in the state it came out in..but the big difference is this Blizzard can code games..Sigil couldnt and thats why Vanguard failed.
 
I'll say it again the sheer scale of VG was/is imense but just so poorly implimented and thats the crying shame,and for that reason Brad and his merry gang should still be hanging thier heads in shame.
 
On a side note SOE havent directly made a game post NGE have they? published for sure but not MADE any games,theres a big difference as mentioned the agency will be the game to watch how good/bad it is as they will have actually coded it from the ground up.

---

 

It is an interesting side not that they haven't made a game since the NGE. Why do you suppose that's the case? Could it be because they know their name is mud?

If just acquiring and publishing games stains them enough they do poorly, what will an all-SOE game do? Only time will tell.

Since before the NGE, they've had at least two games in development (and I'm told there is a third), the Agency, which will be very NGE like in it's FPS combat system, that will also be their first foray into RMT based games, and the DCMMO.  The third hasn't been announced, but it's rumored to be a complete WOW clone.

The DCMMO, as is pretty well known, has had MAJOR problems with keeping a Dev team together.  They are constantly advertising for Devs for it.  They were do desperate a year ago that they promoted HELIASS and Rogue5 from SWG to be lead Dev and producer for it.  I don't even know if that dynamic duo is still there or if they've had their turn out the revolving door.   The rumor is that this is due to excessive micromanagement.  Wonder why Smed  never even pokes his head into EQ2 anymore?  It's because all his energy is focused on the  "save our company (and his job" project which is DC.

This all makes one wonder just how lowly regarded "Toilet Boy" is even by Smed, considering that as a self confessed corporate yes man (which is how he got his nickname) he'd seem to be the perfect lead Dev for DCMMO, since he'd do whatever he was told without any protest or sign of creativity.

Indeed, the DCMMO fiasco is really the only reason I can find to even ATTEMPT to keep a functioning NGE Dev team, especially one that is full of interns and entry level graduates, it's a minor league from which they hope to develop experienced Devs that they can throw to DCMMO.

As for the three "Platform" affiliates, that speaks for itself.  Vanguard launched to a resounding thud, has merged servers, the publisher folding, and is a failure.  Gods and Heroes died in beta before launch as the publisher was folding...  POTBS launched to a resounding thud, merged servers faster than any MMO in history, and it remains to be seen if SOE will be 3/3 in publishers who associated with them going out of business.

Now you can't blame SOE totally for those failures, but it does show you the caliber of partner they are able to attract, insolvent publishers, publishers with flawed games, or both.

If they do make the game I have a feeling it will be based more around Mass Effects and less around KOTORs type of gameplay!  Mass Effect had a skill point based leveling system.

if they handle the game community the same way they have been then no i won't play it. so far they have thrown around the word "wow" too much as well.

I'd certainly give the game a try.  However, if it doesn't have player housing, the level of character customization that SWG has, the excellent crafting that SWG had, and the excellent social tools that were parts of SWG (sitting in a camp/cantina was fun, waiting for shuttles and *gasp* talking to other players was fun), then I certainly won't elevate it to the level of "Best MMO Ever" that Pre-CU/Pre-NGE SWG was.

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by fozzie22

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and i think if ncsoft, or blizzard, or turbine, or mythic, or..... anyone else published the game and released it early people would have actually played it.

---

Blizzard wouldnt have released it in the state it came out in..but the big difference is this Blizzard can code games..Sigil couldnt and thats why Vanguard failed.
 
I'll say it again the sheer scale of VG was/is imense but just so poorly implimented and thats the crying shame,and for that reason Brad and his merry gang should still be hanging thier heads in shame.
 
On a side note SOE havent directly made a game post NGE have they? published for sure but not MADE any games,theres a big difference as mentioned the agency will be the game to watch how good/bad it is as they will have actually coded it from the ground up.

---

 

It is an interesting side not that they haven't made a game since the NGE. Why do you suppose that's the case? Could it be because they know their name is mud?

If just acquiring and publishing games stains them enough they do poorly, what will an all-SOE game do? Only time will tell.