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Star Wars Galaxies - Correspondent: Does Crafting Matter?
MMORPG.com Star Wars Galaxies Correspondent Jef Reahard writes this article on crafting and the recent crafting changes that have come with Update 5.
The crafting game within-the-game of Sony Online Entertainment's Star Wars Galaxies was easily the most complex, rewarding, and intricate MMORPG economic system this side of EVE Online, and it was one of the great tragedies of the infamous New Game Enhancements (NGE) that this sublime system of resource management, trade, and customization was nearly blown away in an attempt to appeal to a larger audience. Happily, all is not lost, as the current Star Wars Galaxies development team has been taking baby steps in the general direction of recapturing the magic of the old system, despite runaway server inflation and the misgivings of some players weaned on the simplistic auction house systems of other games.
Before we examine the recently released Game Update 5 crafting changes, a little history lesson is in order. With the NGE, Star Wars Galaxies traders were effectively rendered irrelevant, as item decay was removed (meaning that players didn't need to visit weapon or amorsmiths more than once, since their gear lasted forever). Sony also implemented a second character slot for each paid account, and huge numbers of players took advantage of this to roll their own crafters, becoming self-sufficient and removing the demand for specialized crafting. Additionally, the original skill-based crafting professions were consolidated under the catch-all 'trader' profession which featured four sub-tiers: domestics, structures, munitions, and engineering, each combining at least two of the older professions like droid engineer, architect, and chef, and also combining them with abilities taken from the artisan skill trees as well as vendor management tools from master merchants.
The crafting system did retain most of its customization options after the changes (the ability to name items and the sheer number of different wearable/useable items is still unmatched by any other game in the genre), but these characteristics are largely considered 'fluff,' of great use to role-players and immersion enthusiasts but of limited utility in terms of actual gameplay mechanics. While various viewpoints no doubt exist as to the quality of these sweeping changes, what is not open for debate is the fact that the crafting system in Star Wars Galaxies was simplified considerably once the dust had settled.
Fortunately, the developer(s) responsible for this crafting dumb-down have moved on, and to Sony's credit, they have taken baby steps toward restoring some of the complexity of pre-NGE crafting, most notably with the Beastmaster expertise system (a hybrid of the old Bio-Engineer and Creature Handler professions, with a much higher time/materials cost). They also introduced ground-based reverse engineering (shipwrights could already reverse engineer space parts since the Jump to Lightspeed expansion in 2004), a grind-intensive process that allows the various traders to produce stat modifier bits for insertion into armor, weapons, and clothing.
Initially, this new reverse engineering system proved to be a boon for traders, as the bits sold for many millions of credits due to the horrifically repetitive grind required to produce them. Currently however, the profit margins on most servers have declined drastically, as players have turned to third-party applications and bots to automate the bit-grinding process, and thousands have rolled their own RE traders with their extra character slots, resulting in a market flooded with cheap bits.
Into this morass comes a ray of light known as Game Update 5, released to the live servers on July 29. In terms of mechanics, the crafting portions of the update are solely focused on munitions traders, with no changes planned for structures, domestics, or engineering.
Munitions traders will now be able to craft stat-laden weapon components, using a core system much like that of the current armorsmith profession. In lieu of item decay, all newly crafted weapons will be bio-linked, ensuring that players must seek out the services of a smith rather than pass their uber FWG-5 with the kung fu grip down to their alts or guild mates.
Skinning has also been implemented, giving smiths and players a much wider range of choice regarding their weapon aesthetics. Gone are the days of your smuggler toting around the same hair-dryer inspired Lamprey that you see in every other pistol user's hand. Expect to see some old favorites like the T-21, the disruptor rifle, and the scatter pistol returning with the potential for server-capped stats and your choice of elemental damage types.
Finally, the new update features a radical change in the resources required for munitions trading, with an eye toward starting all prospective smiths on relatively equal footing and negating any advantages enjoyed by folks who've been hoarding rare resources for years. That said, it still pays to do your homework, as those crafters who came prepared (by checking out the resource requirements during the Update's time on Test Center) will no doubt make a large amount of credits (and perhaps build a reputation) in the early days of the publish.
Reaction from the player base has thus far been largely positive, particularly among veteran crafters who felt burned by the NGE and the switch to a loot-based economy. "Say goodbye to the factory crate crafter," enthuses Quin'tani of Starsider, "they simply will not be popular with the high end players" who want powerful, customized weapons. "Remember kiddies, trader is PVP with credits," says Archemedes, a launch day veteran who has also crafted extensively in several other MMORPGs. "I can say without a shadow of a doubt that crafting in SWG is the best crafting system I have ever encountered."
Due to the emphasis placed on resource gathering, item decay, customization, and a host of other factors, crafting in pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies was a very real, and deep, alternative to traditional combat gameplay. Given the radical changes to munitions trading in the Game Update 5, it could be again, given time and appropriate tweaking. Sony seems to be saying that crafting does indeed matter, and, whether or not this signals the start of a complete trader overhaul, it is a large step in the right direction.
I played Star Wars Galaxies for close to three years. In the beginning the game was beutiful. It had lots of great features that many other online games did not had, but which really set the game above everyone else, with items like housing and a true crafting profession, and the decay made the profession useful! Jedi where ofcource my main goal. Or rather a Dark Jedi. After 1,5 years of dedication I reached my goal! It wasnt easy, and it wasnt pretty, but in the end i got there, to the envy of many!
For a while the game was fine. There where something for everyone, and each class had a true depth in it. Crafters could really sink into the profession to the smallest details. jedi where a true power and hated. So hated that we had truly dedicated Bounty Hunters who hunted us. It created a nice PvP system! Want to be a jedi? Well, the price is: you get hunted! Then we had other professions which had just as much immersion and depth as the allready mentioned classes. For a while, it was nice! Not perfect but nice!
Then NGE where supposed to be launched\ under a cloud first of secrecy. In the beginning no word leaked out, so we where not really asked what we wanted! And one day it smashed on live server. Jedi where now more common then the sand on the desertplanet Tattoine. Crafters where told to stick it. Completely shafted. Complete new stupid control mechanism - to a new system I LOATHE with passion! so many things changed! And nothing to the better! Worse: SOE proved they did not listen either! LOADS out of outcry on the forums. Result: people got banned. The insurrection spread into the game. We had huuuuge demonstration outside most of the cities. SOES answer in the end: ban the players! So much for the listening.
I am usually a very patient player. I am an adult and I know that if you want to get things through the system you present your arguments in a calm manner! But when we got told to stick it litterally my last words to a SOE DEV where. F**K YOU SOE! F**K YOU ALL! F**K OFF YOU DEVS AND MAY YOU ALL GO TO HELL AND TAKE YOUR GAME WITH YOU!
My words still stand.
I got banned efcource with so many others. We had one things in common: we loathed the totally ignoranse of SOE. And their arrogance to their playerbase!
I had spent so much time in this game to accept such a complete screwover! Even worse not being listened to at all! Heck, there where thousands who demostrated in the weeks following the NGE! But they told us in diplomatic wordings: STICK IT!
Those demonstrations where the last time I have seen the cities crowded.
In the time following I got banned and left the game I have got 5 please return mails from SOE. The first two offered me free 7 days trial. The third a 14 day trial and the fourth and fifth a whole month!
All have been ignored.
Just as I ignore all the games from SOE
Good bye SOE and good riddance
"Finally, the new update features a radical change in the resources required for munitions trading, with an eye toward starting all prospective smiths on relatively equal footing and negating any advantages enjoyed by folks who've been hoarding rare resources for years. "
What's the point then? I was one of those crafters (Armorsmith) who had to start with just any junk resources. I still sold my stuff because it was cheap...but eventually I had great resources. It took 6 months before I was making the best armor on the server. If everyone starts out on equal footing, what's the point of being a long-term crafter? How could you possibly differentiate your stuff from any one-day-old crafter if everything you produce is the same?
Im not bitter about the NGE. I loved SWG, gave the NGE a couple of months, then quit. It's SOE's game, they can do what they want to with it. If they would truely bring back crafting to the point where though hard work/play you could make stuff better than your competition, I would probably come back.
More like Mycoplasma genitalium steps, It's 2008 now and the NGE happened in 2005 I think, yeah, that development team is on top of things. Maybe after their done looking at crafters they can start looking at what really happened to the Mary Celeste.
Good article, heavily biased in both directions. Regardless of what Archemedes thinks, the crafting system is onyl as good as the game behind it, though. An awesome crafting system bolted onto a trainwreck of a game such as the NGE is a crafting system wasted. I understand the thrust of the article was to point out that particular facet of the game, but in all reality, reintroducing what was torn away with crafting without reintroducing what was torn away with the rest of the game would only appeal to savants. Complex mechanics in a game designed to be so simple a lobotomized monkey could play it just seems so counter-productive.
SOE: Reintroduce the 32 professions, make Jedi an alpha class that you have to role-play to keep (and make it extremely difficult to obtain), pay no attention to the duelists who complain, and concentrate on mass-scale PvP battles. Oh, and might as well get me a mocha latte while you're at it; I know that's about as likely to happen. But all of the above would improve the world we live in.
This is a perfect example of how mismanaged SWG was and still is. I'm not applying blame or negativity against the corespondent; but rather using the statement as another supportive measure.
According to the management, SWG was too complex and required too much reading...
Cripes.
There's still no decay. There's still a simplistic, poorly implemented ripoff of WoW combat system, with the added stupidity of the default pseudo-FPS interface that is totally inappropriate for a game only played over the Internet.
The NGE is still there. The NGE is utter garbage.
The game was destroyed, and the pathetic attempts to bring back the "old game" will be futile as long as you have overt levels and rigid classes. Crafting is as dumbed down now as it was when the NGE took away all the tradeoffs in crafting that there were under the original game.
Do not get me started on what a pathetic mess Beast Master is compared to CH or BE.
Just don't.
Is it fear i smell, insert new BioWare SW mmo, or the other guys SWG. It's not only a little to late for SOE to be making statements that they are trying to bring back the old magic, but it is retarded for them to think they can stay with the NGE format and think people will be falling over themselves trying to resub with this new crap of a patch.
SOE can screw up a iron ball, and will continue to do buisness as usual on all other games they create. In actuality, do they really seem like a company that gives a rats ass about this particular product. If they did, they wouldn't have changed it in the first place and or would have seen the mistake shortly after the change and changed it back.
It's kinda of funny how they can boast their advancements of SWG, yet are still forcing people to pay for a transfer off one of the 20 out of 25 dead servers, without feeling one bit of guilt.
Does crafting matter in SWG? Not as long as the uber items that are obtained off the the instance boss is still in game, as well as no deacy on anything.
So what that a WS can make a great weapon and it's a bio-link item. Without decay it will last forever and all it really does is keep inflation sky high.
SWG is shot and they know this. They know that their days are numbered and are trying to grasp for anything to keep the little players they have and bring a few more on board until that time comes.
To be clear, Sony hasn't said any such thing, those are my words, and I am in no way affiliated with them other than paying my $30.00 - $45.00 a month since launch. The new dev team isn't stupid, they know that they're on a sinking ship, or at best, a very small ship catering to a niche audience, but the point is that this hasn't stopped them from trying to work with what they've been given and improve the game.
For that, they are to be commended, not ridiculed. I have as much reason to hate SOE as any of you, perhaps more (given the amount of time and money I have invested in SWG since beta), but the hate in this thread is misdirected, since nearly everyone responsible for the NGE is no longer there.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.”
Its funny, that the thing that went untouched front he NGE (except in regards to the final items, the process and mechanic is still the same) Is the best part of the game, and only thing worth talking about...still.
To be clear, Sony hasn't said any such thing, those are my words, and I am in no way affiliated with them other than paying my $30.00 - $45.00 a month since launch. The new dev team isn't stupid, they know that they're on a sinking ship, or at best, a very small ship catering to a niche audience, but the point is that this hasn't stopped them from trying to work with what they've been given and improve the game.
For that, they are to be commended, not ridiculed. I have as much reason to hate SOE as any of you, perhaps more (given the amount of time and money I have invested in SWG since beta), but the hate in this thread is misdirected, since nearly everyone responsible for the NGE is no longer there.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.”
Wow, sorry for ruffling your feathers. Smedley is still in charge and that's enough of a reason to not ever play a SOE game again. I feel sorry that you are such a NGE fanboi that you can sit and defend all the wrong doing that SOE still does to it's current customers.
Sad but SWG is a dead game.
Would it have a real FPS system NGE would have been successful.
Now it isn't an FPS, socialisation is dead, crafting isn't as good as it was even merging the servers would not help as it only takes 3 days to bot-level a char to 80.
Pre-CU servers could attract some players but would be the death of SWG.
Now the word is out, Bioware is indeed making a SW MMO, every SW fan is looking towards it.
SOE is just milking the players as much as they can.
As any others I don't want any business with a compagny that treat their customers as SOE did, that's why I will never ever buy a Sony product anymore, either console, game, TV, MP3 player, you name it.
God I loved the crafting in this game, there was nothing else like it. Too bad that game is gone. Oh well, moving along, these are not the droids I'm looking for.
Wow, sorry for ruffling your feathers. Smedley is still in charge and that's enough of a reason to not ever play a SOE game again. I feel sorry that you are such a NGE fanboi that you can sit and defend all the wrong doing that SOE still does to it's current customers.
You didn't ruffle my feathers at all, I just wanted to be clear on the fact that I said those things, when your comment attributed them to Sony. As far as me defending them, that's comical, but I forgive you for not knowing me well enough to know how laughable that truly is.
Cheers.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Very nice article and I will give you credit, you are 99% correct, except people will never come back!!
As a vet from day one, 5 accounts purchased in the first month, 3 master crafters running one of the best known armor crafting and clothing service on Flurry in the old days, I cry for those days back. Few side notes though..
everything that has been added in the last 3 years are what was in the system prior but working corrrectly now.
MOD bits- SEA's in the old system (100% working better now)
Creature handler= (grind fest now to get them up to level, but I like that you can make what you want) 50% better in some way I say.
Heck - we could put our pets on display PRE CU (i had a crayte head in my large house), now we can stuff pets........ WOW.. but it was in 5 years ago..
Mods to guns- WOW we had that 4 years ago. Remember killing Kraytes for pearls before JEDI for tissues......
I agree the new game is just now getting awsome and has some very nice things. However 2 problems will allways make it so that the old players (well most ) will never come back.
1-THE CLASSES HAVE BEEN GUTTED!!!- How can I play 1 of 9 classes now when prior I could make 1 of 32, and I could have even one box from all 32 classes if I wanted. (SORRY but the versatility of char creation is about 1% of what it was)
2- SOE/SWG staff LIE!!!- Sorry but I stayed around and payed for almost 2 years after it was junk, and I even went to 3 BS sessions. I drove 6 hours each way the last one, just to hear them tell us it would get better... I was told that weapon smiths was going to be next upgrade IN LA 2.5 years ago, and again in vegas more than a year ago. They made collections and EPIC encounters .. WOW.. (sorry but they never cared about anything we said at those meetings)
It took them 3 years to fix the loot system- Ill be their are still tons of items that are usless (broken quests).. How about the parts of a printer (that use to make a killer poster) They still have junk dropping but took away +to HP Peko Peko (spelling) feathers 3 years ago..... (heck they are least work but dont drop!!)
3.5 years to fix weapon smiths. SOrry I watched a major upgrade to every other fighting class twice at least before they fixed it.
HELL it took them 3 years to make a armor re- die kit. (that was asked for when color was added to armor 4 years ago when we still had HAM)
SWG with advertising could of beaten WOW hands down, if they had put the polish on the system like they have been doing now to the original 32 professions. .. WOW would be a word for SWG.....
Just my 2 cents.. take it or leave it..
"skinning has been added" they are still a WoW wannabe
"the scatter pistol may return with capped stats" why the capped stats?
as long as decay is out (or you dont loose items like in EvE) this crafting system shall forever be a useless pile of crap. bring back the decay and that will solve so many problems
I agree, I wish decay would return as well, but unfortunately those of us that feel that way are in the minority. People are now weaned on easy mode it seems, and it's practically unthinkable for a game to come out that has consequences like breaking equipment.
Given that, this new system is about the best you could hope for if you're still into SWG crafting. No, its not as good as the pre-NGE system, but its quite a bit better than it has been, which is good enough for folks that either a) love Star Wars enough to stay, or b) love the sandbox/roleplay/virtual world elements enough to stay.
As a side note, all of the folks who are mentioning the Bioware SW mmo as the second coming, I'd say don't get your hopes up. Given the current market, there's very little chance that that game will be anything other than a WoW/LotRo style themepark (which is not to say it won't be successful, I'm sure it will be, but it will not recapture what SWG once was). I would be very surprised if it has even half of the sandbox elements that made pre-NGE SWG unique. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
QFT
This sight has a swg correspondent? Did you just pick names out of a hat?
Let me spell it out for you, anyone possessing the knowledge neccessary to really give you an in depth insiders perspective concerning anything in star wars galaxies quit playing this game years ago. It is a blight on the face of the genre and completely tarnishes any value found on this website by association.
Don't Subscribe to the Lie.
Honestly, whats the point of tweaking the crafting? I don't know anyone or any old guild members that play this game. With a new SW MMO in the works, who is gonna give a rats ass about a crafting change. I just don't understand who is playing this game still . It boggles the mind this game isnt dead yet.
Ok, first of all, you’re an employee of this site and shouldn’t be keeping a scarcastic flame war going. That said…
SWG was a truly Amazing experience for me, and my friends. It truly immersed you in a world that you SO wanted to be a part of since childhood, and was the funnest game you could ever play. Then, it was destroyed. I often find myself daydreaming about pre-CU/NGE, with that euphoric feeling, go look at the site/forums, and get SLAMMED back to reality.
There were a few awesome things about this article:
1) The people responsible for NGE are gone. Thank God. They ruined the game.
2) “Recapturing the magic of the old system”… all their doing is scrambling to fix the überest mistake in the history of online games. Seriously, they need to stop trying, they will never fix it. Even IF they brought back EXACTLY the same game as at launch, bone armor and all, a rare few would come back. They’re already over it, and wouldn’t want to deal with SOE, nor give them their money or time.
3) The great thing about even the “broken” items was what people did with them! Creating statues or decorations inside your house/guild hall was awesome! Remember there were competitions for decorating. Players would join guilds simply because they knew how to make an extraordinary guild-hall.
4) AS/WS – I have to say, I do like the skinning idea, but decay def needed to be a factor.
5) Why are they starting people over… again!? This is another point-in-fact that they DO NOT care about veterans of the game, people who kept their company going from the beginning, and even those crazy die-hards who still play now. Other MMOs REWARD veterans (e.g. - CoX/Eve-O), and care about their input, even appointing representatives from the player-base to help make development decisions (remember this started to happen briefly on SWG forums, but it was a huge lie as nothing was implemented, and NGE swooped the rug out from under it anyways).
6) EVE-Online is the closest thing there is to the crafting/player-run economy of this game, and thus there are sO many SWG refugees on that game, including myself.
7) I only pray that before Bioware installs the original discs of SWG, and takes aLOT of notes. Then reads every forum post ever written on SWG on the web (that will give them an idea of how much hype and amazement there was to that game… and then how much disappointment and hatred), and takes more notes. Then read every fan-site with suggestions/wishlists for SWG, and take even more notes. – Take the lead of Blizzard with Starcraft2 development, but not with World of Warcraft game mechanics or ideas.
8) I hope George Lucas understands how Bastardized his storyline was by NGE SWG… And I’ll be very surprised if he allows (2) games of the same type to co-exist with each other in competition with each other, especially while one is completely non-canonical.
9) I’m sorry but I must completely disagree with your statement to commend the developers. As individuals, perhaps they are doing the best at their job description, and bringing home paychecks for their families. As a whole, they have utterly failed and taken the game in BUNK directions, consistently. As a company, the direction to the developers has been obviously horrendous. No matter how much you improve a sinking ship, it won’t look any better at the bottom of the ocean. In fact, all you’ve done is wasted effort on what will soon be junk, effort which could have created a splendorous new ship for people to enjoy for future to come.
10) I also do not believe that the responses on this forum represent the minority of SWG-enthusiasts/MMO gamers however. Why do you think there is NO_ONE on the SWG servers these days…? Any have you seen one comment in support of the anything SWG on this site as a whole? … tell me who the minority is then, and tell me to whom SOE has been catering?
11) PLEASE do not spend anymore company time publicizing or reviewing a dead game! Not only is it dead, but it is an now an embarrassment and learning lesson for all MMOs… don’t give them fuel to keep going. Instead, spend this time investigating what your users really want to know about: Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO. Add it into your lists of games under development, create a forum for it, work hard to influence the development of the game toward the liking of your users. Then this website will actually be a useful resource and voice of the gaming community instead of a promoter of CRAP like [dead]NGE-SWG.
</rant>
I apologize if I have offended anyone, this post has just been 3+ yrs in the making now.
Not sure how to catagorize this thread. Certainly have to disagree drastically with the OP.
Without item decay you still have a fancified FPS. How absurd to think that this MINOR change makes anything different.
Just because the copied Wow's method of attaching weapons to the avatar does necessarily make a good crafting system. Wow's crafting system is probably it's weakest link.
I love this quote:
"I can say without a shadow of a doubt that crafting in SWG is the best crafting system I have ever encountered."
Not since NGE. The existing crafting system in SWG is pretty much the laughing stock of the industry. I even think DAoC's crappy system is far better.
Sorry to the OP, but you are living in a very surreal world, time to get back to reality.
Oh and by the way, Smedley, the original NGE architect is still there, does not matter if no one else is, he was the one responsible for the NGE debacle, he put the team together that created the NGE mess and told them what he wanted. So let's just ignore that "the original team left" comment because it too is a silly observation.
He is not an emplyee of this site.
Let me quote Craig:
Heh, I felt the original system was hideously complicated for no good reason. Tiny stat modifiers? Useless.
Hundreds of materials of various qualities? Stupid overkill. Hasn't anyone here ever heard of "refining"? I should be able to take that low quality ore/leather/whatever, and refine it to make it better... sheesh. That way, I have ONE stack of it in my limited inventory space, instead of 100.
I find it humorous that the original author thought that the 2nd slot is a big negative to crafters. Not so.
It let more people do it, rather than just the people like my good friend who had 6 accounts and borrowed three others to dominate the rare materials on his server and utterly control the weaponsmithing profession.
Yeah, it was so great one guy controlled his server's weaponsmithing... great for the casual player who wanted to play one. Try to sell something? He'd undercut and drive you out of business.
He did pay for his college education and rent with the money he made ebaying the credits, however.
This crafting change is huge, there is now not 1 loot drop weapon that holds a candle to player crafted weapons. You can even "de-construct" some of the loot drop weapons and use their appearance and select your own elemental damage type.
I just had another Nym's carbine redone by a weaponsmith
It was 908 dps 31 acid elemental
It's now 1120 dps 50 heat elemental, with a socket an additional 225 health, and +25 to crit
Which one would you prefer?
Although I most admit this change is a step in the right direction, it is not enough to bring me back to the game I once loved so much. I will be keeping my eyes on it in the next few months though.
I agree with the majority of posters on this thread that this crafting change is all in vain. SWG died when the NGE came out. Now the SWG Emulators are closing to launching a lot of old pre CU vets are looking to play that(for free for the good pre cu version of the game, unless you make a donation) and with the devolpment of KOTORO I dont see this making ANY difference at all in this game. So the answer to the OP, does it matter....perhaps if the game was flurishing, but it's been dead since the NGE so no it doesnt matter at all!!!
Eh, sorry, but that's incorrect. I've been playing since beta, and have likely forgotten more about the game than the quitters ever knew. Thanks for your keen insight though.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
As far as me keeping a flame thread going, that's not my intention at all. I joined this site a couple of years ago because I enjoy forum discussions, which is all that is going on here. Sure some people are venting their Sony anger, that's to be expected, but I've not taken offense to anything said, and I hope no one else has either.
Additionally, you guys who are claiming that SWG is 'dead' are off the mark. Is it in good health? Who knows, Sony doesn't publish subscriber numbers (and Woodcock's numbers are guesses). However, many thousands of people still play it, and so if the powers that be decide its worthy of coverage, who are you to suggest otherwise?
Yeah the Bioware game is coming, and I'll obviously be playing that as well, but SWG continues to be one of a very few mmo's that has sandbox elements, in addition to being the only current SW game, and it will therefore keep its niche audience until they decide to close down the servers, regardless of whether or not angry former players claim that it is dead. If it doesn't appeal to you anymore, I totally respect that, but don't assume your opinion carries weight with anyone other than you.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
A better title for this news discussion should have been:
Star Wars Galaxies: Correspondent - Does SWG really matter?
Answer:
No.
Nothing to see here, move along.....
Sadly so have the people with real passion and creative flare that created the basis for this game. What is left is a small team that can only clone concepts from other games and rehash small bits of game play when they are able to figure out how it works.
Also there is nothing I see as commendable from SOE even if the team is a group of interns making the best of a dead situation. It is still just a group of people giving false hope.
"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme since SWG launched too early.
"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the CU was announced.
"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the NGE dropped.
"it's not great now but they plan to make it better" has been the overall theme of this FIVE year old game since day ONE.
It comes as no surprise that a SWG correspondent has typed something which should of been titled ""it's not great now but they plan to make it better"
So... crafting is almost back to where it was three years ago? Huh. I guess that's something.
And what's worse is it is heralded as some kind of triumph!
This game has been nothing but 10 steps back and one forward, all the while a handful of people singing in chorus "the game is getting better every day". I suppose that by some miracle the game returned to what it was 3+ years ago the same people would still be singing the same tune - only this time they'd be right ; )
player housing?
I find it funny that SOE takes 100% of the criticisms for the failure of SWG when Lucas Arts had their hands in it as well. Please believe me when I say, "Nothing went into SWG without LA's eyes on it first."
Nothing is ever said about the focus groups they held that said "An FPS would be better" and "Make it more like KOTOR." I am also someone that was hurt by the NGE, but I believe the hate should be shared between the two companies that guided the changes to the game.
I hope the new company has some creative control over the project.
"but SWG continues to be one of a very few mmo's that has sandbox elements"
How about providing some supporting evidence of such? From my point of view, all the sandbox elements were removed with NGE and I have not seen any added. This crafting change just implements something Blizzard put in their games 4 years ago, it really does not change crafting in SWG much at all. I never found crafting tedious in pre NGE SWG. It is most certainly tedious now.
You want sandbox, look at Eve. You want a FPS, look at SWG.
Hopefully the Kotor people will be aware of this fiasco and avoid all the mistakes that were made.
As to the current state of SWG, I have a station account and occassionally log into my characters in SWG. All of those servers are dead. I am shocked if I see another player and I usually try visiting several cities when I play.
I rolled a crafter and really enjoyed the process. Even with the simplified process it took time and effort to get the best resources possible to make gear people wanted to buy.
The problem with changes like these is they are impacting an increasingly small number of players and it makes it harder and harder to come into the game or even catch up.
For example, my main was a BH, occasionally a mando, and had many millions of credits in the bank, largely obtained through crafting some of the best ship-parts on my server. I took a little break from SWG shortly after the RE system for ground-based loot came in. I cam back a few weeks later to find I was now significantly disadvantaged in pvp - a major part of SWG gameplay nowadays. Even in PvE and in instances, I needed to get the best possible mod bits to be useful to a group. So I turned my trader to making the mods. It does take a long time to craft the trash parts to RE into a +35. Enough time in fact that I could barely begin to make some of the collections.
IT sounds like that situation has been remedied a little as there are now so many +35's going around they are much more affordable. But making more exclusive items, weapons etc., is surely only going to roll things back.
I'm not a against leet-loot. Its good that that there are some things that are harder to get than others. But when the population of servers is as small as SWG's typical galaxy it puts anyone just coming into or returning to the game at a significant disadvantage. Populations are so small they are easily dominated by long-time players. In a massavely populated game like WoW for example you can pretty much avoid imba players due to the sheer statistical unlikeliness of coming up against them in pvp. But in SWG - you're gonna get owned all the time until you can buy/loot enough credits to get level.
Where did you pull this way of thinking, out your ass. First, SOE admitted that they were the ones who came up and designed the NGE, then sold the idea to LA. Second and i don't even know where you could have come up with this, but SOE never made the NGE to play like KOTOR.
KOTOR was developed by BioWare, and they are the dev company that is making the new SW mmo, and are partners with LA in this project.
this guy needs to take his own advice.
FYI I got banned for posting 'Don't Believe the Lie' in this thread. I've had several accounts banned on this site, for attacking the travesty that is star wars galaxies in posts. The biase on this website is so pathetic they've even gone as far as to hire trolls to defend these criminals. These guys are the same ones that post at the oboards, and on every other site that brings up the huge mistake that was the CU/NGE.
It's whatever, these people cant ever accept being wrong and aren't happy unless they are making someone else miserable with their lies and cronyism. I hope I keep getting banned. I never cursed, or threatened anyone or anything other than offer my opinion, if somewhat heatedly, and you just can't stand that can you?
Well I guess the truth hurts.
You don't even need to bother to respond. Just delete this post. That will solve everything. Thank goodness for people like you who insist we play mediocre mismanaged mmos.
Actually the complexity and small twinks in the Original Crafting System is what I fell in love with in the PRE CU Game. The System Reward Crafters who did their work, searching the Galaxy for the Best Resources to put together a product that other players recognized as a Superior Product. I was a weaponsmith from day 1 of the game, some of the resources i used I did not find till 2 years into the game or more. So the Argument that new crafters could not compete was nonsense. Something close to the best if not better was always popping up, people just had to take the time to find it. But that was the problem, people were not willing to take the time and thus could not put together useful weapons and thus they cried about how complicated the system was. It is a Shame such an Original and Rewarding crafting system like PRE CU SWG was destroyed because people wanted the easy road.
Excellent points. Maybe there was so much lacking in SWG because the developers spent so much effort making their complex, intricate and ultimately meangingless Crafting system.
Why do I say meaningless? Not because of SWG's failure to attract players but because it's Star Wars. Show me a Star Wars movie, novel, comic, video game or anything else about the exciting adventures of some shopkeeper selling junk to other people.
Old school players praise SOEs attempt to make a 'living world' with a functioning crafting economy while ignoring the fact that the game failed utter to capture the essence Star Wars - an intergalatic space opera.
How much do you want to bet Bioware's Star Wars MMORPG will only pay a cursory nod toward trifling, secondary mechanics like Crafting and focus on important elements that SOE ignored, like class balance, combat mechanics and most importantly FUN that is true to the IP.
Star Wars is about spaceships, blaster fights and daring rescues. Keep your shopkeeping for the Walmart MMORPG whenever that comes out.
You do recall all those other characters in the movies that played smaller, but still important roles in the story?
Uncle owen the moisture farmer.
Jawas are droid/equipment 'resellers'
Watto [anakin skywalkers owner] was a junk dealer
Anakin skywalker starts out as a junk dealer and if I recall he plays a small part in the movies.
R2D2 and C3P0 are just droids and they get more than a fair share of story.
etc etc etc.
I understand what you are getting at, but what you are descibing is a game where everyone is the hero. There isn't anything wrong with a game that lets people play all of those other colorful foles that make up the majority of the actors/characters.
SOE failed to capture the Star Wars essence, because the game wasn't finished. All the mechanics for the galactic civil war were broken or missing along with many other things. The original Star Wars team did a pretty good job of getting the feeling of living in the Star Wars world. If the game stayed in close development for another 6-12 months I think people would be talking about the epic success this game was and how other companies are making clones of the game.
I use to be one of those SWG people that always said, "I will only quit SWG when they shut down the servers". Well, I was wrong. After just about 3 1/2 years of playing...going through CU and NGE...I finally said good-bye. It was hard. I love Star Wars and anything Star Wars. Unfortunately, SWG just was not Star Wars. Nothing, not better crafting, not returning to the old pre-CU..nothing, will bring me back to SWG.
Excellent points. Maybe there was so much lacking in SWG because the developers spent so much effort making their complex, intricate and ultimately meangingless Crafting system.
Why do I say meaningless? Not because of SWG's failure to attract players but because it's Star Wars. Show me a Star Wars movie, novel, comic, video game or anything else about the exciting adventures of some shopkeeper selling junk to other people.
Old school players praise SOEs attempt to make a 'living world' with a functioning crafting economy while ignoring the fact that the game failed utter to capture the essence Star Wars - an intergalatic space opera.
How much do you want to bet Bioware's Star Wars MMORPG will only pay a cursory nod toward trifling, secondary mechanics like Crafting and focus on important elements that SOE ignored, like class balance, combat mechanics and most importantly FUN that is true to the IP.
Star Wars is about spaceships, blaster fights and daring rescues. Keep your shopkeeping for the Walmart MMORPG whenever that comes out.
All I can say is, go back to playing your FPS games, that is entire NOT what MMO's are about. Got to love it when the console crowd tries to relate to a MMO.
this means thas Smed has been fired?
or we can consider him a "nearly" figure in SOE and SWG-NGE Management?
Sorry, mate dont agree.
BYE
Excellent points. Maybe there was so much lacking in SWG because the developers spent so much effort making their complex, intricate and ultimately meangingless Crafting system.
Why do I say meaningless? Not because of SWG's failure to attract players but because it's Star Wars. Show me a Star Wars movie, novel, comic, video game or anything else about the exciting adventures of some shopkeeper selling junk to other people.
Old school players praise SOEs attempt to make a 'living world' with a functioning crafting economy while ignoring the fact that the game failed utter to capture the essence Star Wars - an intergalatic space opera.
How much do you want to bet Bioware's Star Wars MMORPG will only pay a cursory nod toward trifling, secondary mechanics like Crafting and focus on important elements that SOE ignored, like class balance, combat mechanics and most importantly FUN that is true to the IP.
Star Wars is about spaceships, blaster fights and daring rescues. Keep your shopkeeping for the Walmart MMORPG whenever that comes out.
I'm really sorry to say this but, you sir are not a true MMORPG'er.. you want a 3rd person combat game with other players by the sound of your post. Fair enough thats what you like but don't ever assume that it's what the majority want, SWG subscriptions to this date prove without a doubt that the majority preferred things how they were before the NGE, this included crafters and the economy.
In my personal opinion, no matter what SOE do to SWG now, it will NEVER be as popular as it once was. This saddens me as it was my first ever MMO and i enjoyed it for a good 2-3 years. for me it wasn't the combat changes that killed the game as i became a successful and respected Bounty Hunter that could take out a lvl 90 elder jedi from lvl 82 (wasn't easy and i never used off-side tactics), for me it was the removal of Decay and the consolidation of the crafting systems, they made the game simplistic, i don't care who made the decision to make the NGE the fact is they brought it out and killed the game. If you dispute the fact that they killed the game then perhaps you can show me proof.. my proof is the sheer numbers they lost because of it. i'd estimate at least 75% of subscribers left within 3 months of the NGE going live.. This mass "rats abandoning a sinking ship" effect was, in my opinion, due to the removal of decay and because SOE chose to cater for the whining kids that don't like it or prefer to just go out and PvP rather than have a variation of choices of what they want to be (the RPG element was removed). SOE consolidated the Crafters, for reasons i can't comprehend, thereby removing the need/want for a competative market between traders and future traders, the traders that were left started using factories more often which removed the customised feel of what people bought, Decay was removed, which in my personal opinion, is always a bad thing as it completely negates the reasons of having crafters in a game. What do the high level players that remain do today, they've got everything they want and need so whats left?? PvP and pretty much nothing else.. Why on earth turn a game that was loved and played by possibly millions of people into something that caused them to lose the majority of players? the reason is simple, they wanted to cater for the WoW children who are used to playing WoW and expect all other MMO's to be the same, simple and a bore grind.... Crafters used to make the best items in SWG, now they are nothing compared to looted stuff..
Anyways enough of my rant as i'm sick of it and SOE lost my trust and respect a long time ago and i reccon i aint the only one that feels this way..
Have a good life and good fun grinding in your new WoW.
Factories weren't so much a problem as the resource control was. See, the real problem with old school crafting was the ability to farm the best resources en masse and control the amount, availability, and thusly cost. The way they spawned I always felt it would've made a lot more sense for harvesters to take up more lots, or otherwise be limited to two of any type (eg 2x flora, 2x mineral) at once. This may have (ideally) given more players a shot at resources, but still wouldn't completely solve the cross server "lot trades" or multi-accounting -- though it would make them much more complicated.
I also always believed placing harvester should've been entirely within the crafter domain, though that would've given them too much power... though it would've encouraged more trade of resources.
However, all that said, I did know (and buy from) a few casual weaponsmiths that, while they never made it "big" as your friend did, they still had their own hardcore following. Additionally, I always found guilds with their own WS the way to go as they were usually the most willing to completely customize your gear.
Crafting in SWG was what had me hooked since launch. The NGE failscapade killed that off, and even with the forthcoming changes, it'll still be broken in a major way.
Pre-CB & NGE, crafting was a major component of the social nature of the game, and was the driver for so much of the player driven content of the game - from player cities to the GCW. But it got taken away and a loot driven economy was dropped into the game in it's place. Now the game is a barren waste-land of farmers and l00tors, with no ingame society, multi-account holders running cities and an economy that would make Zimbabwe look like the EU.
What SOE had before NGE was revolutionary and evolutionary, and all of us who miss it can only mourn it and move on.
Way too litlle, and about 3 years too late.
To number two, I can only say this: Correct. No one wants to go back to the boyfriend who raped them. And that's EXACTLY how I feel about what SWG did to us. Short of actually physically violating me, which I believe was in the the next patch, the game did things to the player base I'm fairly sure are prohibited by the Geneva Conventions.
To number eleven, I can only heartily agree. It's like hearing stories about an old friend who took a bad turn in life and goot hooked on drugs or something, now turning tricks on the corner. Let it die. Please.
This update will not change the over all scope of the mistakes of the past. SOE has to be taught a lesson.
I just picked up my ruler from the front desk. Perhaps I should be the one that should learn them. Who else?
Love that Jestor!
SWG....
It was kinda like trying to eat a desert with the Chef always coming back and taking it away because he thought he could make it better on the next try.
When I couldn't recognize what I ordered anymore, I got up and walked out.
Years later, they've finally noticed that what they've created no longer matches what I've ordered.
How many years will it take for them to notice that I'm no longer sitting at their table?
It's funny to me that everyone thinks SOE had/has control over SWG. They never have and never will. The agreement with Lucas Arts (LA) gives LA a very large amount of control in the direction of the game. Back when the NGE was made it was made for one reason: Market Share. The executives at LA did not consider SWG's markets share to be big enough. They thought if they made the game more like another more successful MMO (Wow at the time had a very large Market Share) that SWG would be more successful. They figured they would loose some subscribers initially, but that the changes would make thier product mroe successful in the long run.
SOE has it's faults don't get me wrong, but the NGE came from LA. You did notice that Raph Kostner stepped down at the same time of the NGE. The class he played was a Beastmaster- BioEngineer, until they put Beastmaster back in it was no where to be seen.
I too look forward to the MMO that Bioware is working on... I hope they take the better things developed in MMOs and put them to use.