Originally posted by Yamota

Unless every single item in a cash shop is purely costmetical then the game is to some degree Pay to Win.

Does it offer exp bonuses? Faster ways to get good weapons? Pay to Win. 

End of discussion.

Actaully the most common definition is that a game is p2w when you can buy power items for RL cash that cannot be gained (relisticly) playing for free.

This allows for buying faster progression without it being p2w though, and is generally much broarder in what it allows.

Or put in a different wording for a game to be p2w it has to be designed so that you can ONLY win in the long run by paying.

Originally posted by Rayshe

Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.

Yes, it is P2W.   That it is a business model.  Just like P2P describes how a game earns money through subscriptions.   P2W describes how the game earns money through the cash shop.  It is a part of the game design and the basis for every game mechanic, or a characteristic of the game.

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by Rayshe

Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.

 

Yes, it is P2W.   That it is a business model.  Just like P2P describes how a game earns money through subscriptions.   P2W describes how the game earns money through the cash shop.  It is a part of the game design and the basis for every game mechanic, or a characteristic of the game.

 

 

f2p is the business/game design model. p2w is (subjectively seen for most players) a bad implementaion of f2p.

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by Rayshe

Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.

 

Yes, it is P2W.   That it is a business model.  Just like P2P describes how a game earns money through subscriptions.   P2W describes how the game earns money through the cash shop.  It is a part of the game design and the basis for every game mechanic, or a characteristic of the game.

 

 

You need to change your forum name dude.

Free to play is the name of the business model.

Pay to Win is forum born to imply a game that you can buy better equipment than what can be gained through free means.

Get out of my thread with such foolishness. By your standard the pets in world of warcraft is pay to win, or the cosmetics of GW2.

Originally posted by hfztt

f2p is the business/game design model. p2w is (subjectively seen for most players) a bad implementaion of f2p.

Where at all in that acronym do you see a description for how the game gets revenue?   F2P isn't a business model, but a description of how a player chooses to play the game.   If one decides to purchase from the cash shop they are certainly not playing a "free" game.   Even the publishers distinguish the difference between paying and nonpaying players. 

It is interesting to see the same arguments in this thread as people used to say that GW2 was P2W. I don't think either game is - Allods Online now that is P2W.

I don't think anyone will sway anyone with arguments here.

Originally posted by thinktank001

It doesn't have anything to do with your opinion on "fairness". 

There are people that have already tested every weapon, documented their findings and have numbers to support the fact that every guns in PS2 is basically sidegrade:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&type=view&gid=12

 What do you have Mr. Opinion?

Originally posted by botrytis

It is interesting to see the same arguments in this thread as people used to say that GW2 was P2W. I don't think either game is - Allods Online now that is P2W.

 

I don't think anyone will sway anyone with arguments here.

I don't think people are really trying to sway each other's arguements. All that is needed is to prove the point the view that "Planetside 2 is p2w" is idiotic is good enough.

I think a quote from Nick Naylor in the movie Thank You for Smoking says it best:

Nick Naylor: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right.
Joey Naylor: But you still didn't convince me
Nick Naylor: It's that I'm not after you. I'm after them (as in everyone else but you).

Originally posted by Yamota

Unless every single item in a cash shop is purely costmetical then the game is to some degree Pay to Win.

Does it offer exp bonuses? Faster ways to get good weapons? Pay to Win. 

End of discussion.

That's not pay to win, and hardly the end of discussion. Even if you get weapons as fast as possible, it won't make you any more lethal. Just lethal in a different way. Did you even read the OP?

Originally posted by Kyleran
For some folks, being able to purchase ways to progress more quickly fits into their definition of P2W. You won't change their minds by saying it isn't so.

But if progression doesn't equate to killing power, then how is it pay to win at all? You can progress faster into different rolls and play styles, not killing ability.

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Kyleran
For some folks, being able to purchase ways to progress more quickly fits into their definition of P2W. You won't change their minds by saying it isn't so.

But if progression doesn't equate to killing power, then how is it pay to win at all? You can progress faster into different rolls and play styles, not killing ability.

Progression gives you access to better armour, larger clips, more weapon addons, more utility abilities, shorter cooldowns, more versatiltiy etc etc and instant access to the most powerful, best situational and most unbalanced weapons. Then, once they balance these weapons, they can gain instant access to the next OP weapon/combination. All help you gain an advantage over players who do not have any of this.

From the first day of release aircraft rocket spam began, just like it did in the original game. AA was underpowered, rocket spam was unbalanced and too powerful, thats a fact, a known issue that led to the balancing patch but not before it was exploited as everyone knew this was the case from beta, they just purchased and buffed the rocket pods from launch.

Watch the video's of players getting massive numbers of kills and quickly this way with little-to-no deaths, it's sick. The splash damage meant there were few places you could hide.

Point is, without a cash purchase, this would never have happened at lauch.

These players paid to win, simple as that.