---

Originally posted by Biskop

---

Originally posted by TruthXHurts
It's not entirely "open" pvp. In H&H you have to earn the right to kill other players and is very costly. Then there is the "scents" that can let players track criminals. It is the best system I've seen for detering random PK.

---

Yeah, but still, oPvP and permadeath are in-game and some people with kill other players permanently just because they can, even though Salem will be pretty hard on PKs. I agree the system is great, that's why I (and many other fans of open, innovative games) are interested in the game.
However, this thread is about the stupid design scaring people away - people who otherwise would have enjoyed both the setting and the game mechanics.
I've yet to hear anyone say they actually like the char models. The most positive thing people have to say about them seems to be "I don't mind them that much". That's not a very good sign, in my opinion. After all, if you enjoy a game you don't want to having to force yourself to look at your own character.
I hope the devs wake up and do some changes before it's too late.

---

I like the character models. They are unique and acknowledge the silliness of trying to make something that looks realistic in a medium where looking realistic is impossible.

** edit **
It should have been obvious from H&H's design, but the developer is making a game that they want to make, that they know a certain number of people want to play. It's a very respectable way to go about making a game. I like this too. It acknowledges the silliness of trying to make something for everyone, when that is impossible.

yes it will.

Its turned me off a bit, i really done get how a game with such serious game mechanics can have such catroony grahics..

Mechanics wise its basically what most sandbox fans have been looking for btu graphically its meh..

I am a bit of a graphics nut myself and I believe in the year 2012 even indie companeis should be able to make good looking games, i know some of you will say thats just the style they went for.. but i think it was a bad choice..

 

Im sure ill give the game a go but i dont think it will hold me for long unless the gameplay is blood amazing..

Originally posted by stayontarget

yes it will.

Well it's not turning us on like tera so i guess if you need a break from a wet sheet adventure and your not a molester then this is the game for you ?

Originally posted by lizardbones


I like the character models. They are unique and acknowledge the silliness of trying to make something that looks realistic in a medium where looking realistic is impossible.

** edit **
It should have been obvious from H&H's design, but the developer is making a game that they want to make, that they know a certain number of people want to play. It's a very respectable way to go about making a game. I like this too. It acknowledges the silliness of trying to make something for everyone, when that is impossible.

 

While I respect your philosophical grounds for liking the models, I don't see how a company would want a significally smaller amount of players than they would have if the just changed some of their char designs.

Of course Salem will not be for everyone, permadeath alone is enough to alienate 95% of the MMO gamers. So why alienate 4% more, just because you made models that look like baby dolls?

Salem will be niche enough as it is, they should at least try to attract the sandbox gamers who like the setting and mechanics but prefer their characters to at least look remotely realistic. Because despite what you seem to think, it is possible to make more realistic models than this.

 

 My main request for the game is they keep the colors darker. I can handle doll like player models. I can handle silly concepts within a more morbid atmosphere, but bright colors too just throws it for me. I could give a crap about graphic style as long as they pull off what was talked about game play wise. On the same note I don't want to play in a game world that looks like it was colored by Disney if it's lore is based in a more dark mindset.

 Opinion toward graphic choice. Aside from their past game being in close to the same style. I think this type of graphics leaves them more time to work on mechanics over flash. I agree they could have gone realistic or whatever comes close to that in a game sense, but it would take time away from other details. The other concept might be that they chose this graphic style because of the seriousness of some of their concepts witch burning and such. I understand that many of you want as real as it can get in a mature game, but not everyone always wants to visualize over and over a seriously detailed version of people burning at the stake or cannibalism among many other gruesome ideas. Personally I'm not bothered I was just saying there are some among player groups that don't find that appealing at all in a more realistic sense. Games are meant to be fun and some times light hearted even in darker concepts. They are running a tough gauntlet between the two. I will wait and see what they achieve.

I do have one question I have read over and over now that this game has Lovecraftian overtones about it. Did the creators announce this or make that statement? If so could someone point me to that conversation please. I would like to read it. Maybe I bypassed it cause all I got it was based more on old folklore and the superstition which was steeped in over hyped ideas of evil and witchery. 

The silly looking graphics turn me off, but I will try it anyway I'm sure. I can get over not liking the graphics. I can't get over shitty gameplay.

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by lizardbones

<>

While I respect your philosophical grounds for liking the models, I don't see how a company would want a significally smaller amount of players than they would have if the just changed some of their char designs.

Of course Salem will not be for everyone, permadeath alone is enough to alienate 95% of the MMO gamers. So why alienate 4% more, just because you made models that look like baby dolls?

Salem will be niche enough as it is, they should at least try to attract the sandbox gamers who like the setting and mechanics but prefer their characters to at least look remotely realistic. Because despite what you seem to think, it is possible to make more realistic models than this.

I agree with everything you wrote, and god damn is that character model bad in that picture. I very well may not be able to get used to those models...even if the game is super fun.

---

Originally posted by Biskop

---

Originally posted by lizardbones


I like the character models. They are unique and acknowledge the silliness of trying to make something that looks realistic in a medium where looking realistic is impossible.

** edit **
It should have been obvious from H&H's design, but the developer is making a game that they want to make, that they know a certain number of people want to play. It's a very respectable way to go about making a game. I like this too. It acknowledges the silliness of trying to make something for everyone, when that is impossible.

 

---

While I respect your philosophical grounds for liking the models, I don't see how a company would want a significally smaller amount of players than they would have if the just changed some of their char designs.
Of course Salem will not be for everyone, permadeath alone is enough to alienate 95% of the MMO gamers. So why alienate 4% more, just because you made models that look like baby dolls?
Salem will be niche enough as it is, they should at least try to attract the sandbox gamers who like the setting and mechanics but prefer their characters to at least look remotely realistic. Because despite what you seem to think, it is possible to make more realistic models than this.
 

---

Watch some commercials. Look around at some advertising. The little Pop-Tart guys, the XBox avatars, the Nintendo avatars, the Little Big World guy. That Cute/Creepy look is "in".

Also, watch the Cinnamon Toast Crunch commercials. Not even because of this thread, but because it is hilarious to watch cannibalistic cereal. I laugh to myself just thinking about those commercials. But still, cute and creepy.

It's "In". I don't know if this is why that's the direction they're taking the game in, but it certainly seems like a possibility (to me). It may pull in more people to a game where the PvP or Permadeath would normally turn them away.

I cant talk for other people but I wish they dint go down this lane on the art direction.

I dont mind low quality graphics, low polys or LQ textures with rudimentary animations. But I dont like cutesy models nor do I like the skanky / super butch models predominant in asian games. Something semi-realistic for the genre is all that I ask for. Sadly many devs dont go that way with the game art, instead choose to include the toaster-shoulderguards, lingerie armour pieces or in this matter bobbing head dolls...

 

I will try the game when Im able to but I still wish this game would look different once it opens doors.

Originally posted by lizardbones


Watch some commercials. Look around at some advertising. The little Pop-Tart guys, the XBox avatars, the Nintendo avatars, the Little Big World guy. That Cute/Creepy look is "in".

Also, watch the Cinnamon Toast Crunch commercials. Not even because of this thread, but because it is hilarious to watch cannibalistic cereal. I laugh to myself just thinking about those commercials. But still, cute and creepy.

It's "In". I don't know if this is why that's the direction they're taking the game in, but it certainly seems like a possibility (to me). It may pull in more people to a game where the PvP or Permadeath would normally turn them away.

 

I'm sure you're right about that look being hip, but I doubt Salem will attract a mass audience of Xbox and Nintendo players anyway. It's a small niche PC game, and if H&H's mechanics says anything about Salem, any 14 year old emo kid who comes looking to play a cute Tim Burton-looking doll game will probably get bored by the effort required to achieve anything in-game - not to mention their tears when some PK guy permanently finishes off their baby avatar and steal all their pixels.

i dont mind the graphics at all, in fact, i think they have some much needed personality.  i think the anachronicistic flare will really stand out, when semi toon burtonesque half men are slaughtering eachother and waging war on carnivorous witches.

 

this is definately a game for mature people, and by including pseudo cutesy bobble headed avatars, the devs have in a single stroke banished at least half of the mindless 15 year old l33t gankers who wont even touch this game.

 

im very happy that i will only be playing salem with a community of people who from the very start, had to be mature enough to get past superficial cuteness.

 

and even not counting that, i think the graphicx express alot more personality that two thirds of the high end graphic monsters you usually see on MMORPG.com.   this game is going to rock.

---

Originally posted by Biskop

---

Originally posted by lizardbones


Watch some commercials. Look around at some advertising. The little Pop-Tart guys, the XBox avatars, the Nintendo avatars, the Little Big World guy. That Cute/Creepy look is "in".

Also, watch the Cinnamon Toast Crunch commercials. Not even because of this thread, but because it is hilarious to watch cannibalistic cereal. I laugh to myself just thinking about those commercials. But still, cute and creepy.

It's "In". I don't know if this is why that's the direction they're taking the game in, but it certainly seems like a possibility (to me). It may pull in more people to a game where the PvP or Permadeath would normally turn them away.

 

---

I'm sure you're right about that look being hip, but I doubt Salem will attract a mass audience of Xbox and Nintendo players anyway. It's a small niche PC game, and if H&H's mechanics says anything about Salem, any 14 year old emo kid who comes looking to play a cute Tim Burton-looking doll game will probably get bored by the effort required to achieve anything in-game - not to mention their tears when some PK guy permanently finishes off their baby avatar and steal all their pixels.

---

There's a big difference between "more people" and "mass audience". This game is certainly not a mass audience game, but it could grab a lot of people who would normally not even try a pvp, perma-death sandbox game.

Seriously though, watch the Cinnamon Toast Crunch commercials the next time you see them on T.V. I would recommend youtube, but all of those seem to be from 2009.

** edit *8
Also, imagine the number of people mindlessly doing the same thing over and over again on Farmville or some similar game. That is easily as boring or more boring than any sandbox game. The PK thing will turn people off, but not everyone will quit. Some of them will have friends who will use the in-game system to hunt the PKer down.

The playstyle will turn people off, the art style will turn people off, and the time period will turn people off.

I have to say this game is as niche as it can get.

At first I saw the graphics and I was like "lol"

Then I heard about the crafting and I was like "cool"

Then I said "If Im going to play a game that looks like this, it better be hardcore"

Then I heard about perma-death.

I think I will try it.

Originally posted by Beegs

I was moderately interested in the game uptill I saw those recent screens. I find it very hard to take seriously, and just as I have a hard time playing any heavily eastern themed graphic style game I imagine ill also struggle to take it Salem seriously aswell.

Its just not for me and I also dont feel it fits the theme either, unless ive grossly misjudged what the theme was supposed to be. They could easily have done heavily stylised yet simple graphics and kept the dark feel, and not went down some bizzare cutesy path like they appear to have.

Same for me as well. The initial idea was great, but the graphics style killed it for me.

Not interested.

yeah.... it's kinda hard to take it seriously when everyone looks like a bobblehead. i like to think that i'm fairly forgiving of artistic choices, but the heads on the chars in salem need to be smaller. they look pretty stupid right now. (stupid is the only word for it. they don't look cute/chibi/anime or any of that. they just look ill-proportioned like someone mixed up the model or something).

well given alot of graphics are still placeholders im not too effected bythe graphics.. but i dislike the look of the hands.. the whole /-\ look really urks me some what.. the bobble heads while weird looking isnt soo bad slight change compaired to the hnh graphics. i just dont like the whole arm/hand look.. i feel like im going to curtsy looking like that...

I'm in agreeance with the masses here.  The graphics are just to silly for a hardcore mmo.  They are targeting the hardcore genre and using childrens graphics to do it...I don't get that. 

There's no real reason behind the graphics unless they were on purpose, i.e. placeholder. The time it takes to make those compared to more realistic models is little. It has been said the graphics are placeholders, which makes sense to test the systems.