OPPS,

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by mmozombie

He is prob upset, cuse he knows if they create a PvE server, the PVP servers would be barren waste lands, Just like when Ultima Online released the Trammel Rule set, Felucca died..

(for those who dont know what UO is, Felucca was the original world, was open PVP full loot.. then they released Trammel an exact copy of Felucca, but no PvP no Full Loot, and Felucca died pretty much, i almost bet the same would happen in this game)

And here is the truth. Behold, as it is universal.

Every FFA open world PvP game would be more popular with consent-only PvP. Period.

Don't believe me? Prove me wrong. There are several examples (one in the quoted text above) to back me up and none that say otherwise.

 

 

Asheron call 1 has full loot PVP, and  PVE servers the game has been around since 1998, and the PVP server has always been busy compared to the PVE servers, so that is a prime example.

 

Again not all people who like PVP are griefers, I'm an anti PK, but I love PVP, I like to protect the weak, and fight the griefers its more challengeing that fighting the same boring AI that is out there..... So before you bash all PVPers do some research, I been gaming since the commadore days .

I don't mind  PVP at all, even open PVP. What I mind in this game is perma-death. Now perma-death is a great mechanic in shorter games, it adds replay value especially in procedural generation models (see most roguelikes). But in this game where you potentially sink 100's of hours, to have it be ALL swept away after 1 death is a deterrent to even play. Think of the prospect of doing all that tedious grinding all over again. Most people, including me, won't. They will just say screw it, and never come back.

Originally posted by mmozombie

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by mmozombie

I tried the game out, looked interesting.. Permadeath i can deal with, but Permadeath bundled with PvP i cant stomach... But as everyone knows, Open PVP means griefers, and griefers are not fun... Either make PvE servers, Allow us to flag PVE, or make PVP only avalible via factions... ill be following this game, but wont be playing it... Heres hoping for PvE

 

Oh god here it comes... Change this niche game to be like something I have played before. Look if you don't like PVP or permadeath DO NOT play games that feature them. [mod edit]

This is the reason i do not like open PvP, cuse your probably one of the people who get there kicks of ruining someone else's fun.

if you play a permadeath pvp game properly this cant happen.

 

anyone not blue is a potential nemy. anyone not blue will try to kill you. if you're near someone not blue either engage, flee or keep a close eye on him. Don't engage in anything that gives him a tactical advantage.

 

staying there like a dumbass while an enemy comes along and kills you is fully your fault for not reacting to enemy proximity.

if you have played haven and hearth you would know how to avoid perma death pvp. salem is no differant, the main trick to avoid or aleast lessen the % you will get pked is to:

A) dont be an idiot and cause problems. (tresspass/steal stuff from people or talk trash to someone(s)

B) do not loiter near the main populated areas. (just dont sit anywhere that is open for pvp where alot of people are seen running around.. aka starting town)

C) team up with some trustworthy people who dont cause problems (see A... this can backfire at times but some raiders wont bother with a active village/town)

 

pretty much, start the game. complete the early noob guide. and then run off as far away as you can go from the main town(s) and find an area that seems quiet and empty to settle.  while it wont prevent you being killed by creatures or players. the less populated and main path trecked it is, the less chance a random pk will just wanter by and whamp you for the fun of it. 

while salem is alot harder on noobs then haven was. as you are required to find food and such to survive, and relocating is alittle hard at times. its not impossible to completely skip over pvp/pk.  

the majorty of people who get pked deserve it. they either stole from someone and got caught or talked trash to the wrong person(s)

Originally posted by Consensus

The whole game is designed around perma death, it would break without it. If you understood the game you would realise why, but its too tedious to explain. There will never be pve servers, I can garentee you that 100%.

however I was thinking about this other day and in theory there is a way you can play and never get killed. you could live as a player trader, stay perminantly in boston. buy and sell things you need, especially with new player owned shops. it would probably be quite tedious, as its not what the game is designed for its in interesting thought anyway

Perma death does not neccesarily mean you must have PvP, you can make a PvE only game with permadeath that might be good.

Problem here however is that the game is made for permadeath and PvP, taking out the PvP of a PvP game usually leaves it a bleak shadow of what it should be, a bit like taking all PvE out of Wow.

If Salem were made to have PvE servers from the beginning things would be different but like it is OPs idea is terrible.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Consensus

The whole game is designed around perma death, it would break without it. If you understood the game you would realise why, but its too tedious to explain. There will never be pve servers, I can garentee you that 100%.

It also must be too tedious to read the OP, as he said Permadeath was something he could deal with. It was the PVP he had an issue with.

 

I agree with him. I've been playing a couple hours a night and the game seems to open up new things for me to do each night. I look forward to playing each night but dread ever having to deal with the PVP in this game. Personally, I don't see the point of this game's PVP in its current state.

 

 

Well what's the PvP for as is?

PvP in a permadeath system gives every player an option and responsibility to think of their actions.

It adds a whole new dimension compared to a strictly PvE locked system.

It's nice that if someone steals from you or scamms you, you have an option to hunt him down and kill him.

It's good that there are consequences. There are too little consequences on the internet and there are thousands of games you can play without any direct consequence to your actions. That's why internet can be such a dump hole anyway.

 

I wouldn't even touch PvE server. No reason, might as well play WoW.

Isn't this a crafting game? how did pvp and permadeath find its way into a crafting game?

Since it's pvp+ftp there will be griefers, most likely groups of them on top of that. How do they expect to deal with this?

Originally posted by BruceYee

Isn't this a crafting game? how did pvp and permadeath find its way into a crafting game?

Since it's pvp+ftp there will be griefers, most likely groups of them on top of that. How do they expect to deal with this?

devs dont do anything with griefers. basicly if you want to grief/spawn camp you can. its up to the playerbase to deal with you. which they do, to some extent. the problem comes from the fact as the game ages fewer and fewer people bother helping noobs out as most tend to view noobs as expendable or possible alt/spies.

from what i understand reading the forums, some of the early testers(guys from HnH) started spawncamping the jamestown "boston" until players forced them to leave. so the full loot pvp in this game is pretty destructive.  ultimately the most costly item in the game is the toon. all items can be bought/found/crafted or stolen so apart from the normal high-low trading of items for items. nothing in the game outside of the actual toon has real value.

 

so you can craft all you want, just dont expect to get a "free from pvp" card or assume you wont ever get attacked/raided/pked in salem :/ 

Originally posted by Hodo
As far as I have found its not "true" open PvP.  You need to unlock that ability to attack another player, which requires time.   So if you dont want to deal with PvP dont bother unlocking it, and avoid leaving Boston or stay near it, or even better, make friends and start a town.   You know thats what real life people did to avoid raiders, they formed villages and worked in groups.

 

Ok, if I read this correctly:

You need to unlock an ability to be able to attack others, but others (who have unlocked it) can still attak you, hence the "don't leave town" comment? That's bloody retarded.

A PvP game where you appearently have to spend a lot of time to unlock the PvP ability...

Lmfao.

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by Hodo
As far as I have found its not "true" open PvP.  You need to unlock that ability to attack another player, which requires time.   So if you dont want to deal with PvP dont bother unlocking it, and avoid leaving Boston or stay near it, or even better, make friends and start a town.   You know thats what real life people did to avoid raiders, they formed villages and worked in groups.

 

Ok, if I read this correctly:

You need to unlock an ability to be able to attack others, but others (who have unlocked it) can still attak you, hence the "don't leave town" comment? That's bloody retarded.

A PvP game where you appearently have to spend a lot of time to unlock the PvP ability...

Lmfao.

 

Actualy it's a feature well done. In a (permadeath) system like this it has to be relatively easy to survive if you wish so and ability to kill someone needs to be penalised. It is good that people have to spend some time on their toon before they can attack somene else, otherwise any noob could make an alt and go grief.

To me it seems the retardation lies elsewhere.

 

ps. Those who come to this game just for PvP are either confused or hardcore to the bone.

Originally posted by mmozombie

I tried the game out, looked interesting.. Permadeath i can deal with, but Permadeath bundled with PvP i cant stomach... But as everyone knows, Open PVP means griefers, and griefers are not fun... Either make PvE servers, Allow us to flag PVE, or make PVP only avalible via factions... ill be following this game, but wont be playing it... Heres hoping for PvE

 

 

The game would be pointless as a PvE only game. If you want that, go play farmvil. Without conflict its just a crafting sim. And any PvE player worried about grifing can do what humans do IRL, build really really high walls with multiple gates. Problem solved.

Originally posted by StarI

Originally posted by Netspook

...

 

Ok, if I read this correctly:

You need to unlock an ability to be able to attack others, but others (who have unlocked it) can still attak you, hence the "don't leave town" comment? That's bloody retarded.

A PvP game where you appearently have to spend a lot of time to unlock the PvP ability...

Lmfao.

 

Actualy it's a feature well done. In a (permadeath) system like this it has to be relatively easy to survive if you wish so and ability to kill someone needs to be penalised. It is good that people have to spend some time on their toon before they can attack somene else, otherwise any noob could make an alt and go grief.

...

But in Salem you do not have to spend time to make a grief and PvP alt - you make a new character, feed him inspirationals and food from the village coffers and it's done. In Salem you can make a viable PvP alt (including all the stats and skills to murder others) in 2 days.

All what is needed is access to food and inspirationals - and an etablished village has an oversupply of those.

Originally posted by mmozombie

I tried the game out, looked interesting.. Permadeath i can deal with, but Permadeath bundled with PvP i cant stomach... But as everyone knows, Open PVP means griefers, and griefers are not fun... Either make PvE servers, Allow us to flag PVE, or make PVP only avalible via factions... ill be following this game, but wont be playing it... Heres hoping for PvE

 

You obviously didnt play the game.

You can barely kill a frog there. Killing a player is not easy

 

And since we are on the subject. I also demand PVE servers for EVE, MO, Darkfall, WO, The War Z etc.

Please do it.

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by StarI

Actualy it's a feature well done. In a (permadeath) system like this it has to be relatively easy to survive if you wish so and ability to kill someone needs to be penalised. It is good that people have to spend some time on their toon before they can attack somene else, otherwise any noob could make an alt and go grief.

...

But in Salem you do not have to spend time to make a grief and PvP alt - you make a new character, feed him inspirationals and food from the village coffers and it's done. In Salem you can make a viable PvP alt (including all the stats and skills to murder others) in 2 days.

All what is needed is access to food and inspirationals - and an etablished village has an oversupply of those.

 

All what is needed??

Best food and inspirations drop from sky for you when you log in game first 2 days???

Obviously that requires a lot of effort and work and an established player to do. It also requires continuous work because at no point does the food and inspirations start droping from sky.

Definitely not something every noob (or even less a newb) will do or be able/willing to do.

Even when you are defeated you get knocked out. Only if the player keeps attacking you once yoru knocked out will you die permanately. I don't like perma death much either but this game is made so it works. Since you respawn at your home point eventually as opposed to just recovering where you got knocked out.

Originally posted by StarI

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by StarI

Actualy it's a feature well done. In a (permadeath) system like this it has to be relatively easy to survive if you wish so and ability to kill someone needs to be penalised. It is good that people have to spend some time on their toon before they can attack somene else, otherwise any noob could make an alt and go grief.

...

But in Salem you do not have to spend time to make a grief and PvP alt - you make a new character, feed him inspirationals and food from the village coffers and it's done. In Salem you can make a viable PvP alt (including all the stats and skills to murder others) in 2 days.

All what is needed is access to food and inspirationals - and an etablished village has an oversupply of those.

 

All what is needed??

Best food and inspirations drop from sky for you when you log in game first 2 days???

Obviously that requires a lot of effort and work and an established player to do. It also requires continuous work because at no point does the food and inspirations start droping from sky.

Definitely not something every noob (or even less a newb) will do or be able/willing to do.

umm they said the new pure pk toon would be funded by a village. which is totally possible, the only hard part as you should know going by your posting habits is the glutteny grinding. its not very hard to level cloak and dagger to unlock the pvp skills if that is all you focus on.  the majority of pvpers in salem are from the old clans of haven so they are already well versed in setting up villages and pvp in seatribe's games. 

expecting a brand new player fresh from WoW or GW2 to know how to play a seatribe game would be a strech. 

LOL why there are always a few people who want a pve server in a pvp game..

 

There are even people asking for a PVE server for darkfall.. i dont get it..