Originally posted by Yankee520

If people are concerned about some of the CORE gameplay mechanics this MMO is employing maybe you should find a new game that fits your gaming needs. Sorry it is incredibly annoying that a developer is finally stepping outside of the WoW box and have people complain that it is not  like every other AAA MMO that has hit the market the past couple of years. If you are a carebear and are concerned about being griefed or losing your items play a different game. I played Ultima Online for many years and what some people dont seem to understand is that yes griefers do run amok but players also rise up against the griefers and fight back. Each server was unique in that you had notorious player killers but groups of players also created anti-pk groups which kept things interesting . If this game launches in the west with FFA pvp and full loot history will repeat itself and have PK's and people who hunt down the PK's which will create a fun and unique server story, a lot better then some dev created quest that has you collect 10 cow testicles!

Oh where to start with this nonsensical fecies. Developers have stepped outside the box before. You have Mortal online and Darkfall online. How about they step further outside the box and have controlled meaning PvP. (more on this later)

Oh now the post is complete with the typical deragatory term "carebear" being thrown around. btw they do play different games, and then your beloved game becomes a ghost town. No one wants to be constantly grieved, and I am gad you brough up UO. Then amount of greivers in a game then compared to now is not even in the same ball park. The MMO demographic has exploded since then like we are all aware of. For every 1 greiver in the UO days, you have now have 50 in todays era. The PK "hunters" hasnt scaled equally, or even close. Its severly lopsided now. 

AA does not have full loot, it has controlled FFA PVP. I say controlled because there is an anti-greiving system in place. How well it works? I have no clue, it sounds good on paper, but if the penalty for becoming an "outlaw" is nothing more than a slap on the wrist, then you will get your wish the "carebears will leave and then the PK'ers will get bored and leave, and the game will be down to a couple dead servers in no time.  Just like all other ffa pvp games.

Mortal Online and Darkfall are not AAA titles, they tried to cash in by fulfilling a niche that mainstream developers will not go after because they are all busy chasing the big WoW rainbow, how is that working out for those companies the past couple of years? No one has really made a AAA MMO since WoW has been released that is doing what ArcheAge is doing, using FFA PvP. So you using Mortal Online and Darkfall as part of your reasoning why FFA games cannot do well in this market is not exactly fair because they have had much less financial backing than some of its competition which is using themepark mechanics.

As for being constantly griefed if youve never played a game like Ultima Online you would not know how things worked and went down and I am not denying people griefed in UO but the truth is in almost any online game you will have people that enjoy making others rage thats just the way it is and it will never change. But by using FFA pvp mechanics you open up the gameplay and make it much more exciting and personal to the players on the server in my opinion.

My point remains if people do not want FFA PvP which potentially opens up people to be griefed I can recommend a couple dozen MMO's that you would never have to worry about that, leave AA the way it is for the people who want to enjoy that style of gameplay!

Originally posted by Yankee520

Mortal Online and Darkfall are not AAA titles, they tried to cash in by fulfilling a niche that mainstream developers will not go after because they are all busy chasing the big WoW rainbow, how is that working out for those companies the past couple of years? No one has really made a AAA MMO since WoW has been released that is doing what ArcheAge is doing, using FFA PvP. So you using Mortal Online and Darkfall as part of your reasoning why FFA games cannot do well in this market is not exactly fair because they have had much less financial backing than some of its competition which is using themepark mechanics.

As for being constantly griefed if youve never played a game like Ultima Online you would not know how things worked and went down and I am not denying people griefed in UO but the truth is in almost any online game you will have people that enjoy making others rage thats just the way it is and it will never change. But by using FFA pvp mechanics you open up the gameplay and make it much more exciting and personal to the players on the server in my opinion.

My point remains if people do not want FFA PvP which potentially opens up people to be griefed I can recommend a couple dozen MMO's that you would never have to worry about that, leave AA the way it is for the people who want to enjoy that style of gameplay!

As for AA I am not disagreeing with you, I dont want it changed, I just want the anti-greiving mechanics that AA has to do what they want it to do.

I also agree with you about the wow clones, I wont buy anything even remotly like it again. My ship sank with FFXIV with hopes of getting a good quality PvE game.

AA PvE's does excite me though because open world bosses with FFA PvP, can be epic. I just hope they have a diversity of content, Open world bosses, open world dungeons, instanced dungeons and instanced bosses. large raids small raids etc etc. Diversity is a lost art.

But I can tell you right now without a doubt that if AA anti greiving mechanic dont work, AA servers will look like MO or DF servers population wise. That crowd is a cancer these days, this isnt the days of UO where communities were tight nit, and people actually took pride in their reputation and characters. This is the WoW era where community is non existant. I have been apart of both era's. The FFA pvp is the smallest niche market out there.

Originally posted by DarkPony

If community will be the biggest of AA's problems I'll be a happy pony.

Right on.

Some of the games I've enjoyed most had some of the worst communities, but in-game that impacted me exactly not at all, because one of the first things I do in any MMO is disable the non-say, non-party, non-private channels—because no matter how great the community is, a sufficiently populated channel has a collective IQ under 85.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Open world FFA PVP isn't a niche crowd.  Hell, if you don't believe me check out DayZ, or hell even Call of Duty, seems pretty popular eh?  A ton of people love killing other players, period.  Problem is the vocal minority of PVEers always trying to convince devs that the majority of players are too scared of this style of game.  Real hardcore pvpers are stuck playing FPS games due to simple lack of options.   

PVP players don't choose FPS games because they don't have options, they don't support options because they don't want to build their character. I can't comment on DayZ but CoD isn't an MMO. You don't invest time in a game to have it ruined by someone else. If you die you respawn with new armor and a new gun and full ammo. If you lose your match, you start a new one. CoD players wouldn't be very happy if everytime they respawned they were naked, not even a knife and 1 person or a small group of people controlled all the weapon spawn points. Most of them also wouldn't like being unfairly matched vs opponents as can happen from younger less equipped players in MMOs. Some players like the challenge and take up the gauntlet. Other players ride to the rescue of the underpriveleged. These players are a minority compared to the griefer base.

I'm not asking ArcheAge to change, just hoping they are willing to accomodate both sides. I really don't see any chance the justice system will work. Griefers will wear the criminal tag as a badge of honor. Maybe if you can build fortresses with NPC guards (of sufficient strength) then a group of individuals can band together to defend their territory but having 1 or 2 people come by when your off line and destroy everything you've build just isn't worth playing.

Originally posted by Silvermink

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Open world FFA PVP isn't a niche crowd.  Hell, if you don't believe me check out DayZ, or hell even Call of Duty, seems pretty popular eh?  A ton of people love killing other players, period.  Problem is the vocal minority of PVEers always trying to convince devs that the majority of players are too scared of this style of game.  Real hardcore pvpers are stuck playing FPS games due to simple lack of options.   

PVP players don't choose FPS games because they don't have options, they don't support options because they don't want to build their character. I can't comment on DayZ but CoD isn't an MMO. You don't invest time in a game to have it ruined by someone else. If you die you respawn with new armor and a new gun and full ammo. If you lose your match, you start a new one. CoD players wouldn't be very happy if everytime they respawned they were naked, not even a knife and 1 person or a small group of people controlled all the weapon spawn points. Most of them also wouldn't like being unfairly matched vs opponents as can happen from younger less equipped players in MMOs. Some players like the challenge and take up the gauntlet. Other players ride to the rescue of the underpriveleged. These players are a minority compared to the griefer base.

 

I'm not asking ArcheAge to change, just hoping they are willing to accomodate both sides. I really don't see any chance the justice system will work. Griefers will wear the criminal tag as a badge of honor. Maybe if you can build fortresses with NPC guards (of sufficient strength) then a group of individuals can band together to defend their territory but having 1 or 2 people come by when your off line and destroy everything you've build just isn't worth playing.

This is probably the perfect example of why some PVP-based MMOs don't work. If you can't advance and develop your character because theres a bunch of people who have way more time, organization, and resources on their hands to level up, create a gang, and go around griefing you, you're out of luck.

I often wonder if those people who claim that they are "hard-core PVPers" would find it exciting to spend their time in the highlighted state above. If they can serious call that a big better challenge then yeah I'd call them true hard-core PVPers because they accept the risks and don't mind being at a disadvantage to quench their killer thirst. I know there are some FPS players who go around killing people with knives or major handicaps, so I assume there are some like that out there.

Tera had this issue at launch on PVP servers because a bunch of early entry people ganged up and closed off Lumbertown by occupying the bridges to grief camp. Loads of fun when you are stuck in town with no way of actually playing. You don't pay to watch someone prevent you from playing.

Like many said its about balance or equal oppurtunity. The problem with MMOs in oppose to FPS games is that progress is required to be viable in play. Its not like everyone is always equal. If someone gets more time to level, grind out gear, or have progression, and they turn griefer, they run a bigger chance of ruining the game for a lot of other players. Contrary to what PVPers say in MMOs its not skill, its time invested. You could liken it to a player who uses illegal mods or cheats in an FPS game to gain an advantage over others (although I'm referring to the advantage not the cheating...mostly). Most Hard-Core people presented with this scenario chime in with the "so go level up and kill him"...how are you suppose to do that when he's preventing you from progressing?

In older PVP games thats just how it use to be. I remember in Asheron's Call rolling a character and being dropped into the world...and spawning right in front of a griefer who was camping the starting spot. His greeting: "Welcome to AC, time to die!". I did just that. Yeah wonderful introduction to a game. Anyone who plays AC knows you drop everything when you die. Not fun.

Newer games have restrictions on FFA PVP specifically to prevent such starter trauma.

BTW, this was a lot longer than I intended. Sorry for making your eyes bleed if you actually read this.

It really depends on what gamer-base the publisher advertises to.

I suspect if they advertise to a bunch of casual only- type players (and ArcheAge was made by a guy who liked Warcraft so more than likely) then I can assure you the quality of the game-play will go down quicker than a drive-through at Mcdonalds.

How the game is promoted does really count and it'll be the main basis of what sticks through the game's shelf-life.

But since the game is not action RPG it'll probably chase all the players from TERA away who are right now on a facade high having to play a game that operates like an action game but is online mmo.