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Firefall Forum » General Discussion » Firefall: An objective look at the game in it's current state

18 posts found
  EinsamWulf

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/07
Posts: 70

 
OP  4/26/13 11:13:15 AM#1

First off I’d like to make a disclaimer: I like Firefall, however I don’t want to play the fan boy instead I’d like to present the game in as objective a fashion as I can for those who haven’t yet had a chance to play or haven’t played in a long time.

Background

 I’ve been a beta tester for about a year now.

What is Firefall?

 For those that don’t know, it’s an MMOFPS that’s based around resource gathering and dynamic missions. In game progression of the play character is accomplished via XP and gathering resources to upgrade your frame and craft new components/weapons. In the current state there exists and incredible high resource cost to upgrade the frame. However a recent announcement on the forums and a dev interview on facebook have confirmed that the intent is to lower this cost based on player feedback.

So what is this “dynamic” thing? Where are my quests?

If you’ve played Guild Wars 2 or remember the public quests from Warhammer Online you might be familiar with this concept but there are some notable differences as they exist within Firefall. The events in Firefall are not static; they occur at random locations at any time. The chosen invade watch towers at present attack two of the main towns that exist in the current build. There are many other events/missions. ARES missions are the only ones that occur at static points as they involve in door combat in buildings and caves, these are non-instanced and can be completed by multiple players. As for quests there are only a couple, these serve as a quick introduction to the game but after they’ve been completed you’re done. Firefall is not about questing, so don’t expect quests to guide you through the world.

OK, so what the hell do I do then?

That is pretty much up to you. As a player you’re a mercenary assigned as an ARES Operator. Essentially you gather resources for the Accord and fight against the Chosen (and a few other lesser baddies). Events and missions serve to provide a world where you’re free to operate how you see fit. From my own experience you tend to get more rewards thumping (which is the giant drill then get’s called down to gather resources while you defend it from waves of enemies) where as missions provide more XP. Missions do however provide crafting subcomponents that can be used to make equipment and once you figure out why ones offer what you can seriously cut down on resource gathering.

This game doesn’t feel finished, after a few hours I feel I’ve done everything

Welcome to beta my friend.

I’ve played in Beta before and nothing changes by the time I get a look at a game. If this is what the beta is like then this game is a pile of crap.

You like me have played in many betas but the process here is much different. Played feedback is actually very important and your opinions of the game do matter. I don’t want to stand here and praise Red 5 (as they have a lot of product left to deliver) but I will say that I have beta tested numerous games and never felt like anything I did, mattered. The game industry has reinforced this belief time and again but my experience has shown this to be very different. If you’re a tester and you see stuff that needs to be changed I encourage you to write as much feedback as you can and engage with the community. We’re not without our fan boys but it is a solid group to be sure.

Talk to me about PvP

At present there are 2 game modes with a total of 4 maps (3 Team Deathmatch and 1 for Sabotage). In the open world duels can happen but outside of that it is all instance though open world PvP is listed as being a feature later in the game’s development cycle though no word has been given as to whether this will be post launch or pre-launch. Frame balance is and always has been an issue, currently the frames in PvE and PvP are split to allow for better balancing on the PvP side, since it will no longer be affected by gear.

What is this Chosen Warfront I keep hearing about?

Essentially we as humans are trapped in this one small section of the world that for some reason is free of the melding aka Blue Intergalactic Death Fog. From out of the melding comes beings known as the Chosen who are hell bent on our complete annihilation (and they have an affinity for the collection of jaw bones), the full implementation of the warfront involves an AI that serves as the General of the Chosen and will attack in a strategic manner and respond to the players action against them (such as sending counter attacks to recently captured areas). There has been a lot of talk about just how in depth this will be but this is intended to be added as we approach release. There are many threads on the Firefall forums as well we interviews with the developers as they discuss the way this will work but at present its limited to attacking watch towers and laying siege to Thump Dump and Sunken Harbor with events like the Incursion playing a part as well.

 Hasn’t this game in beta for 2 years?

More or less. Core systems have been overhauled in an effort to create a better experience for the players. Again player feedback has played a crucial role in this aspect and getting the core system of frames and progression down first is the only way that the game can grow. Content has only really been a design focus since late last fall if memory serves. More is coming and will be ready by open beta but the game itself will not be done. Players in open beta will be just as crucial in the feed back process as the current testers.

Why should I play Firefall?

That is perhaps the toughest question out there. It’s not a game for everyone that is for sure. Not that it requires you to be smarter or anything, but given the complex crafting and rather open design of the world it is not one that will lead you around the world. The end state is a world that interacts and responds to the players instead of canned encounters and the usual Kill, fetch quests that saturate the market. Of course it is up to the developers to actually deliver this, the game is moving in that direction but it isn’t there yet which if you’re not up to join in the feedback process then right now is probably not the time to jump in.

Concluding statement

I hope this helps perhaps clarify some of the questions here. There is a vocal element of negativity toward this game, some of it is justified but a rather large chunk of it isn’t. My intent here is to try and provide the facts and allow new and old players alike to ask questions that I may not have been able to answer or expand upon areas where I was perhaps too vague.

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  socalsk8tr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 65

4/29/13 5:36:03 AM#2

First off by objective review do you mean your objective is to try to promote the game? Your doing horribly by the way if this was your attempt. You make my review seem like theres more to the game than there actually is. As well as the fact that everyone keeps using the "its beta" tag. That doesn't work any more its just like all these MMO's you see selling "Founders Packs" they had another name for this a few years ago it was called "collectors addition" and they're no different at R5 currently. As I've said they keep promising content but its still neither here nor there alls I've seen is a new sandshark mob they've shown on the forums recently.

Have you even been on the forums for Firefall yourself lately? They're dead compared to pre .6 patch it almost seems like theres maybe 2 -3 posts a day anymore and most the time its not even game related just some random nonsence for entertainment which is another big red flag for me when players are finding more entertainment on the forums than in the game you should be worried.

I keep checking daily for this new content thats supposed to be released pre open beta but there hasn't been a patch with any content since the .6 patch. Again you assume that everyone that posts about the game negatively hates the game as well when you should be happy that anyone is even paying attention to it at the moment esecially here at mmorpg. 

Check some other hubs and see how many people you see even mentioning firefall in any posts whatsoever. I've already stated my position on the game I do enjoy I think it has mass amounts of potential but I do feel that they need to straighten out prioties and quit having people bouncing all over the place working on one part of the game then shelving it for 5-6 months before returning to work on it later down the line. Teams for each sector of the game being developed need to be designated and stay on that sector otherwise they'll just keep ending up with unfinished peices of peices kinda like the crafting system they have. 

I keep hearing people saying its amazing though I don't see it any differently than any other crafting system I've seen in a game yet you get materials select that material and the item is crafted only difference here is they create another process having you craft parts of an item first before you can craft an item.

Finally I saw you tried to mention Dynamic content and comparing it to GW2 however they are no where near that level even with any sort of dynamics. The only thing that happens "Dynamically" is the placement of the same scripted events over and over. Whether you fail that content or not does not change the world enviroment in any way. In fact even if you do fail you can 50% of the time go back and attempt it again.

Till I see this "content" they speak of I wont jump for joy with this game and in all honesty they're not gonna be able to afford developing it unless they can draw in a decent amount of players that are willing to throw down a few bucks here and there. Fact is they're going into open beta in just a few months time and unless they can do something thats gonna keep enough sustainable profit influx with that ob launch it just wont cut it no matter what kind of "beta process" you wanna label it.

  EinsamWulf

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/07
Posts: 70

 
OP  4/29/13 7:20:11 AM#3

Well we can continue to go "wall of text vs wall of text" but it seems pointless soI will just put a short response here.

So perhaps you need to better understand what objective means as you yourself mention I'm doing "a horrible job" at my so called attempt to promote the game. My attempt is not to promote the game but simply state facts however you seem to be of the mndset that objectivity and negativity are synonomous.

I mention in many places that things are not implemented or remain to be seen, an example of this is in my section on the Chosen Warfront.

Lastly beta is beta. Beta is part of the development process. In this case the game is in a true beta state and not some marketing ploy. Unfortunately the gaming industry has reinforced this belief but as you yourself have seen, player feedback has an effect on the devlopment process. I'm not a game/software designer so I make no claim as to how Red5 can better utilize their time.

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  gatheris

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/06
Posts: 985

5/01/13 2:02:39 PM#4

any ETA on when the new miracle patches are coming to turn the game from Thumpfall into Firefall?

serious question by the way - quite enjoyed playing "in the before times"  - - - before .6

  EinsamWulf

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/07
Posts: 70

 
OP  5/02/13 2:03:49 AM#5
I believe the patch is supposed to be this week or next week.

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  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

5/02/13 2:58:07 AM#6

i jump in tihs game about onmce a month or so to see what has changed and bene added and such,

last time i jumped in i saw a new tutorial, and they had shanged how the suits works, to be honest ever since i got my founders pack when they first came out, this is the first change i have seen, heck there arnt even mission any more just small little side mission that i guess could be called dynamic events exept no one really dose them cause just like the rest of the game there is nothign you get out of them and they are not fun.

this game had potential, and itrs fun for about a hour now , but it has been in beta for so long now i have seen games go from closed beta to pen beta to laucnh in that time frame, i just basicly have no real intrest left in this game cause it fills like it will never evolve.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  EinsamWulf

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/07
Posts: 70

 
OP  5/02/13 10:46:32 AM#7

The slow burn of the beta bugs a lot of people.

As for the "quests" well I think you might be misunderstanding the game. Quests were never meant to be a core feature, just a quick introduction to the world after the "battle-lab" tutorial. Really what is missing is the full implementation of the Chosen Warfront. It's grown for sure but I think until Red5 delivers the full warfront and allows the playerbase to work on pushing back the melding then the game will continue to suffer from assessments such as yours (and rightfully so). That being said the big push to open beta may bring a lot more to the world so I hope you check back once that occurs.

An update to the new patch information: Looks like they had to push it back to today (probably this afternoon from the post I read earlier). Hopefully we see some patch notes for sure.

 

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  Nephaerius

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1480

5/02/13 10:55:52 AM#8

There's no content.  I'm not taking beta as an excuse because Open Beta starts in June and they've already been accepting money for their game for quite some time.  They're simply rushing it out the door due to the financial woes of their publisher.  If you really think 100's of hours of content is going to show up out of thin air you're deluded.  I've been in Alpha builds of games with more content than Firefall has right now.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Instigator-Jones

Elite Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 500

5/02/13 11:06:49 AM#9
I agree 'Beta Burn' might be hurting this game. I got in on early beta, played for a month and really had nothing to report because the features were bare bones. I came back a few months later and it seemed to be the same except a bigger population and more Thumping. At this point it was either 'Thump Nation' or imbalanced PVP. I recently went back after a word from Red5 to up the PVE play, and I have to say, I'm impressed with the additions and optimistic for the next patch. It's been a loooong beta that is giving FF a bad rap. Once the game goes live I'm hoping for more rich immersion with story and a more fleshed out lore. FF is definitely a title to watch for me.
  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3575

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

5/02/13 11:11:46 AM#10

Thanks, that pretty much sums it up.  Firefall is very much a work in progress at this point.  I very much like some aspects of the game (the Chosen offense/defense, and the combat system).  Others (like the current obsessive focus on thumping for resources) not so much. But Red5 has stated, that there will be alternate methods added to the game, so we will have to see.

One of the more important aspects to keep in mind, is that this is a REAL BETA. Its not a PR ploy to hype up word of mouth. Anyone going into the game, expecting it to be like many companies pre launch game, are going to be badly disappointed.

Red5 has demonstrated the ability to listen to their player base, and actually act on some of their concerns. Which is much more than I can say for many studios I've seen over the years. Bottom line, lets see what happens as they add more content, and polish the various systems.  Time will tell the tale.

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

5/02/13 11:33:06 AM#11
Originally posted by Wraithone

Thanks, that pretty much sums it up.  Firefall is very much a work in progress at this point.  I very much like some aspects of the game (the Chosen offense/defense, and the combat system).  Others (like the current obsessive focus on thumping for resources) not so much. But Red5 has stated, that there will be alternate methods added to the game, so we will have to see.

One of the more important aspects to keep in mind, is that this is a REAL BETA. Its not a PR ploy to hype up word of mouth. Anyone going into the game, expecting it to be like many companies pre launch game, are going to be badly disappointed.

Red5 has demonstrated the ability to listen to their player base, and actually act on some of their concerns. Which is much more than I can say for many studios I've seen over the years. Bottom line, lets see what happens as they add more content, and polish the various systems.  Time will tell the tale.

i have to disagree, any "BETA" that gives you easy access or more to the point you can pay for access is ot a beta, i can only think of betas like the old one where people got in based purely on thier gameing experence, and where kicked if they where though to be not helping in the beta proccess.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1667

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

5/02/13 11:42:49 AM#12
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Wraithone

Thanks, that pretty much sums it up.  Firefall is very much a work in progress at this point.  I very much like some aspects of the game (the Chosen offense/defense, and the combat system).  Others (like the current obsessive focus on thumping for resources) not so much. But Red5 has stated, that there will be alternate methods added to the game, so we will have to see.

One of the more important aspects to keep in mind, is that this is a REAL BETA. Its not a PR ploy to hype up word of mouth. Anyone going into the game, expecting it to be like many companies pre launch game, are going to be badly disappointed.

Red5 has demonstrated the ability to listen to their player base, and actually act on some of their concerns. Which is much more than I can say for many studios I've seen over the years. Bottom line, lets see what happens as they add more content, and polish the various systems.  Time will tell the tale.

i have to disagree, any "BETA" that gives you easy access or more to the point you can pay for access is ot a beta, i can only think of betas like the old one where people got in based purely on thier gameing experence, and where kicked if they where though to be not helping in the beta proccess.

one of the reasons for the financial problems is that they are using beta as a pr ploy, money grab, hype up and so on.

  Nephaerius

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1480

5/02/13 12:37:50 PM#13
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Wraithone

Thanks, that pretty much sums it up.  Firefall is very much a work in progress at this point.  I very much like some aspects of the game (the Chosen offense/defense, and the combat system).  Others (like the current obsessive focus on thumping for resources) not so much. But Red5 has stated, that there will be alternate methods added to the game, so we will have to see.

One of the more important aspects to keep in mind, is that this is a REAL BETA. Its not a PR ploy to hype up word of mouth. Anyone going into the game, expecting it to be like many companies pre launch game, are going to be badly disappointed.

Red5 has demonstrated the ability to listen to their player base, and actually act on some of their concerns. Which is much more than I can say for many studios I've seen over the years. Bottom line, lets see what happens as they add more content, and polish the various systems.  Time will tell the tale.

i have to disagree, any "BETA" that gives you easy access or more to the point you can pay for access is ot a beta, i can only think of betas like the old one where people got in based purely on thier gameing experence, and where kicked if they where though to be not helping in the beta proccess.

one of the reasons for the financial problems is that they are using beta as a pr ploy, money grab, hype up and so on.

 ^This so much.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  InsaneDalek

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 123

EXTERMINATE!

5/02/13 1:10:46 PM#14

Red5 may have had good intentions going in, but they've done nothing but lollygag for 2+ years. They've at most simply spun their wheels in place for all that time, and most people have lost interest. Now they're announcing 'open beta' in a last-ditch attempt to get some cash (via founder's packs) for their floundering publisher.

Sorry, but unless a minor miracle occurs between now and June, this game won't exist by the time May 2014 rolls around. They've simply wasted too much time & money on needless overhauls of core game systems, and not enough on fleshing out the world around said systems.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. But I've been around a long time, and the signs are pretty clear. It's a shame, as the game had so much potential but well... unrealized potential seems to be a common thing in MMORPGs these days.

It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.

  Instigator-Jones

Elite Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 500

5/02/13 1:44:54 PM#15
I couldn't disagree more with the 'PR Ploy' comment. Red5 has put a lot of time and effort into detail and mechanics of FF. Who wouldn't want to share that and get feed-back to see if they're going in the right direction. I totally agree that the Beta may have come to early, but the progress IS apparent, and reducing it down to a 'PR Ploy' is just nonsense.
  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

5/02/13 1:50:28 PM#16

I tried it and it's definately not the game for me. If I wan't massive pvp fps I go to PS2, if I want fast pased smaller scale fps I go play COD. Don't see a niche area for this game and it's definately not better than those two options for me.

 


  EinsamWulf

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/07
Posts: 70

 
OP  5/02/13 4:35:08 PM#17
Originally posted by InsaneDalek

Red5 may have had good intentions going in, but they've done nothing but lollygag for 2+ years. They've at most simply spun their wheels in place for all that time, and most people have lost interest. Now they're announcing 'open beta' in a last-ditch attempt to get some cash (via founder's packs) for their floundering publisher.

Sorry, but unless a minor miracle occurs between now and June, this game won't exist by the time May 2014 rolls around. They've simply wasted too much time & money on needless overhauls of core game systems, and not enough on fleshing out the world around said systems.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. But I've been around a long time, and the signs are pretty clear. It's a shame, as the game had so much potential but well... unrealized potential seems to be a common thing in MMORPGs these days.

With respect to your first paragraph, you're very wrong. What I mean is that the "Open Beta" means anyone can jump in without a single cent being paid (no purchase of a founders pack necessary). I can't really speak as to the "why" but I agree with many others here that the game needs to take the next big step forward. Open beta is just that. The reason corse systems were overhauled was due to player feedback. Red5 is pretty active with the playerbase on the forums and listens to the playerbase. Some may disagree on this but it's hard not to look through the Devtracker and see that after a couple weeks of the playerbase  making similar statements that things get changed.

Personally I haven't given up on this game but the slow burn of the 2+ years of beta has burnt a lot of people out. I left for a few months and played other stuff but th latest milestone really showed me what this team is capable of. There is a lot of work to do, for me everything hinges on the Chosen Warfront, if they can fully realize the then Firefall in my opinion has a bright future.

@Wraithone: It's good to see another familiar face from the forums here and you make a very good point. This beta is very much unlike any I've ever done before (and I've done many). At the end of the day people can either see the differences for themselves or they cannot. 

The no content argument is one I don't understand in light of the current build. If I may please define what you consider to be content and I can perhaps better understand what exactly you referring to. If you're looking for quest content then I'm sorry to tell you it isn't going to happen. Firefall is about a dynamic world, player driven story and a war against an alien enemy. It remains to be seen how these features turn out but I'd rather see this game crash and burn being unique rather than re-hash the quest grind.

Initially the beta was invite only and for the most part it was community members who were active on the forums that got keys (that is how I got mine). Founders packs came later and many people bought them because they wanted to play and support the game. I bought mine because I wanted to support Red5. Nowadays many companies have caught on that players are willing to pay cash for early access to beta and it is a good way to increase revenue during development. Did it help keep Red5 going? Possibly but I'm not a professional game analyst so I have no real idea how to judge this move. 

PR ploy? I think you might be reaching a bit. I can see how your drawing this so it's not flawed logic but it lacks hard facts.

Firefall is different. That is probably the best I can offer without drinking the fan boy koolaid. You can either accept that the many different things Red5 is doing (and trying to do) are for the better or you can not. I don't fault either way as it's a rather subjective outlook. I intend to put together an in depth write-up come open beta so those of you that are disenfranchised with the game can see what has been added and decide if it's enough. Personally I hope it is, the posts herein have been constructive and I've enjoyed the discourse so in my opinion you would all make excellent additions to the community. 

See you on the bounce.

 

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  socalsk8tr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 65

5/07/13 4:10:40 AM#18
Originally posted by InsaneDalek

Red5 may have had good intentions going in, but they've done nothing but lollygag for 2+ years. They've at most simply spun their wheels in place for all that time, and most people have lost interest. Now they're announcing 'open beta' in a last-ditch attempt to get some cash (via founder's packs) for their floundering publisher.

Sorry, but unless a minor miracle occurs between now and June, this game won't exist by the time May 2014 rolls around. They've simply wasted too much time & money on needless overhauls of core game systems, and not enough on fleshing out the world around said systems.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. But I've been around a long time, and the signs are pretty clear. It's a shame, as the game had so much potential but well... unrealized potential seems to be a common thing in MMORPGs these days.

your actually shaping up to hit the nail right on the head. With this last patch they've introduced permanent item decay breakage over time so we'll always have to replace anything we make for our characters now they claim this will bolster the economy and help crafting (even though theres no trading in the game yet) They also claim its to keep things fresh and force us to get rid of that op gear every now and again but whats to stop players from hoarding and gathering thousands of resources to just stockpile 30 of the same printed gun result. 

Nodes now run out dependant on how many players are thumping on them as well as you can drop 2 thumpers to a node now  creating a rift between players and creating the want to not group or be sociable with others.

 

HP regen on plating is all but worthless they're saying top end tII plating should probbaly be around 15 hp per sec at best. 

 

They're just creating tons of sinks time and resource and resource is just another form of a time sink all to cover up that theres not really any content or things to do for the player. If I wanted to farm all day I'd play farm ville not some scifi mmorpgt/fps the way things are going the main focus is gonna seem to stay around resource collection so yea thats about it in a nutshell its now the best skinned version of mine craft ever.