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Uncharted Waters Online is a sandbox MMORPG made by Koei, which merged with Tecmo a few years ago to create (surprise!) Tecmo-Koei. The combined company has revenue of about 30 billion yen per year, which is equivalent to several hundred million dollars. If that's not an AAA game developer, than I don't know what is. So basically, people complaining about the lack of AAA sandbox MMORPGs seem to have missed this one. |
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11/20/11 2:01:22 PM#2
Yes, but what do you think? |
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11/25/11 4:09:56 PM#3
Nice detailed post Quiz. I dont play UWO but I've often wondered about what the game is like beneath its appearance and I think you've done a good job at being objective about it. /cheers
UO beta, etc etc ---> present day. |
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I'm not going to add this to the original post, as it's already long enough, but there are a number of major game mechanics that I completely missed, including dungeons, aides, companies (guilds), imperial quests, and private farms. That's not counting the stuff added in the recent Tierra Americana expansion, which includes company colonies (i.e., go build your own port) and some cultural stuff based in Paris that I haven't looked into. And there are probably some major game mechanics that I'm not even aware of, so I can't tell you about them. |
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How about if I add some major game mechanics that I missed before. First is aides. There are a hundred or so aides that you can hire, and each major city has several. Aides have three types of skills. One is language skills. Most aides know a language or two, and can interpret for you. If an aide has a languge skill, it functions exactly as if you had it. The next type of aide skill is support skills. If you have a skill, and your aide has the matching support skill, then your skill function as one rank higher. For example, if you have gunnery level 4, and your aide has gunnery, then when you use gunnery, it acts as if you had gunnery level 5. The third type of skill is skills that are unique to aides, and give you minor bonuses. For example, the fire prevention skill makes it less likely that your ship will catch on fire. Each aide has six possible roles, and a level in each role. These are on a scale of 0-100, and start randomly, when you hire the aide. My best guess is that the starting role levels are uniformly at random from 0-50. The aide also has adventuring, trade, and battle levels. These levels start at 0 for a new aide, and can go up to 50. When you gain experience, your aide gains corresponding experience. Furthermore, your aide gains 20 experience for each day at sea, with the type of experience depending on the aide's role. For example, an aide in the navigator role will gain 20 adventuring experience for each day at sea, while a lookout will gain 10 adventuring experience and 10 trade experience. Aides also get a limited amount of bonus experience each day. The first time you log in in a real-life day, your aides each gain 20 experience bonus days. While an aide has experience bonus days left, it gains much more experience for each day at sea. The bonus is the aide's level times the normal experience for being at sea. For example, an aide with adventuring level 20 in the navigator role would gain a 400 bonus adventuring experience for each day at sea. This is in addition to the 20 normal experience, as well as whatever you gain. In order for an aide to reach a given level, it takes 10 times as much experience as it would take you, so aides really do need this extra experience for days at sea. Any time your aide gains an adventuring, trade, or battle level, he has a chance of gaining a level in each role. You also may get a point or two to assign to increase the aide's level in a role. These points are non-refundable, so choose wisely. The skills that an aide has are fixed by each aide. Most skills have some main level requirements, and also a role level requirement. For example, my aide Edgar has the "search" support skill, but only once his main levels are at least 15/0/3 (adventuring at least 15, etc.) and his lookout level is at least 40. Furthermore, all skills except some language skills require an aide to be in a particular role to use the skill. So my aide only provides me with +1 to my search skill when he's in the lookout role. You can switch your aide's role freely, but this sometimes means you cannot get a bonus to multiple skills simultaneously. For example, my aide Edgar can provide +1 to search in the lookout role, or +1 to archaeology in the store keeper role, but cannot provide both simultaneously. The skills that an aide will eventually learn, and the levels at which he learns them are fixed for each aide. You can find a list on uwodb, and should consult that list when deciding which aides to hire. An aide's starting role levels are random at creation of the aide. Furthermore, it will not tell you the levels until your aide has his corresponding adventuring, trade, and battle levels get high enough. The requirements are a bit complicated, but the minimums are 8-12. You can eventually have up to four aides, but can only have two with you simultaneously. You can also fire one aide to hire another, but the new aide starts with low levels, and will be useless except for a language skill for a while. ----- Next, let's talk about companies, which is what UWO calls the game mechanic that goes by "guilds" in most other games. The "guilds" in UWO are something different. A company can be created in any city with a company office. This means any of the major cities in Europe except for Stockholm, as well as Calicut (India). There can be up to 50 players in a company. In order to join a company, a player must go to the company administration office and apply, and then the company leader can accept him. In particular, company leaders can't spam you with offers to join, though they can send you private messages. Each company gets a company chat channel, which is a pretty standard guild mechanic in online games. Each company also gets a company shop, which acts similarly to bazaars. Each company member can list up to three items for sale in the company shop. While you can list items in a bazaar for free, you have to pay 5% of your proposed sell price to list an item in a company shop. Company shops allow players looking for items to look through what many players have posted at once. There are also company contribution points. Each month on the 15th, the contribution points reset, and company members can contribute various goods to act as points for their company. Each player can only contribute four times, however, so in order to get a lot of contribution points, a company needs many players to contribute. This can consist of a high level player handing goods to a low level player, which the low level player immediately contributes. The list of companies for both company shops and recruiting is sorted by the number of contribution points. If your company is 10th on the list of 100 companies in a city, then it is likely that a lot of people will look at your company shop. If you've got 0 contribution points, then your company shop will probably rarely be seen by shoppers. There are also company houses, for the top 20 companies based in a city. I don't know what these do. The leader of my company seems to think they're really great and we should try really hard to get one, but doesn't know what they do. Companies can also build a colony on the east coast of the modern US or Canada. This can eventually function like a normal port. You can register three company colonies to get access to them--meaning, you can enter the colony of other companies. ----- Another mechanic is private farms. There are four places in the game (Ascension, Diego Garcia, Savaii, and St. Lucia) that you can use for a farm. You sail to one of them, land there, and claim some farmland. You can only have one private farm, but you can scrap your old farm if you want to build one elsewhere. You can have up to 14 structures on your private farm. You can make a little bit of progress toward building structures from the bank of any major city each day, but it will take months to fully build everything. Each structure will produce a little bit of some trade good each day. It will slowly accumulate in a warehouse, and you can have the trade goods delivered to you in any major city. Which trade goods are produced depends on the structure, which island you built your farm on, and some other factors. Private farms work somewhat like production in Pirates of the Burning Sea, at least for simple goods there, in that it's basically a passive source of income. ----- When a new character starts, he has only a handful of port permits, so he can only land in certain ports near where he begins. Once your total fame gets high enough, you get more port permits, so that you can land in more areas. If you don't have a permit, you can resupply, but can't enter the city. If you do the storyline, then you can get port permits much sooner. For example, as England, you need 28000 fame to unlock the Caribbean without doing the storyline. The chapter that gives you access to the Caribbean only takes 16000 fame to unlock it, however. Once you have access to the Caribbean, the remaining port permits come from imperial quests. At this point, an NPC in your capital city's palace will offer you imperial quests that will take you to the east coast of South America. He gives you a choice of a number of quests, and they could easily be classified as adventuring, trade, or battle quests. Once you do one of his imperial quests, he will give you the port permits for the east coast of the Americas. After this, you can get an imperial quest in India to unlock Southeast Asia, then one in Rio de Janeiro to unlock the west coast of the Americas. After this, if you go back to the NPC in your nation's palace and start the circumnavigation storyline, he'll give you the port permits for the rest of the world. After this, you can get an imperial quest in Santiago for the Panama Canal, then one from your nation's palace for the Suez Canal. Eventually, it will be possible to get an imperial quest in Manila to unlock east Asia (China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan), but that expansion hasn't yet been released. You can have an imperial quest and a normal quest simultaneously. You only have to do one imperial quest to get the port permits for a given region. After you have done that one imperial quest, you still can do other imperial quests that could have unlocked the same region, so you don't have to do only one quest. ----- There are liners that will take you directly from one city to another city, without having to sail. They're expensive and make you wait a long time--and longer than it would take to sail there yourself--so hardly anyone uses them. The exception is the canals. The Panama Canal connects Portobelo to Panama. The Suez Canal connects Cairo to (surprise!) Suez. These are still expensive, but much faster than sailing all the way around South America or Africa, respectively. You cannot have any trade goods in your ship when you use a liner. So liners aren't a way to save time bringing a bunch of trade goods back to Europe from Southeast Asia or India. But if you're on one side of the canal and want to get to the other side to do something over there, the canals can save a lot of time. ----- The game has dungeons at Giza and Luxor (both in Egypt). From what I gather, they're landing points that are meant for combat, with a bunch of mobs for you to kill, and drops that aren't obtainable elsewhere. You can do dungeons solo, or in a group of up to five. I haven't done them, so I don't really know what they're like. You'll probably want some gear designed for land combat, though. ----- Some errata that are nice to know: You need a job change card the first time you switch to a given job. After that, you can switch back without a card, by paying a fee. The fee is in the tens of thousands of ducats for the beginner jobs, which is basically just a nominal fee. But it can go into the millions of ducats for more advanced job, which is not something you want to switch to every day. For a high level player to pay that once a week wouldn't be unduly burdensome, however. Making an adventuring discovery requires one of (archaeology, geography, theology, art, appraisal, biology), as well as one of (recognition, search, ecological research), and sometimes requires unlock. A map will say the required level for the skill from the list of six, and will list the other skill(s) required. The level required for the other skills is 2 lower than for the skill from the list of six. For example, if a map requires archaeology, search, and unlock, and says it requires archaeology level 4, then it also requires search and unlock to be at least level 2. The other skills do not have to be at least level 4. Major cities tend to have an interpreter, who sells language notes. These are consumables that basically give you a temporary language skill. If a quest unexpectedly requires you to read archives, and you don't have the necessary language skill, then an interpreter's notes can suffice. Your sailors will consume water maybe 40%-50% faster than normal when in sea zones near the equator. This actually includes the bulk of the game's sea zones outside of Europe. The game's counter for how many days worth of water you have left does not take this into account. Many landing points have two separate maps. In order to get access to the second map which goes deeper inland, you need to do a quest that takes you there. Such quests aren't clearly labeled, so you have to find them on your own. But once you've done a quest to go further inland, you'll have permanent access to the second map. All such quests that I've seen were adventuring quests to make an archaeology discovery. |
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12/17/11 8:15:43 PM#6
holy crap! Remember Old School Ultima Online |
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12/17/11 10:23:04 PM#7
Originally posted by EndDream Holy crap indeed. I plan on reading this one day, to help me decide if I want to try the game again. My only hesitation is that when I tried the game the first time, the client installed some kind of anti-cheating software I didn't want on my computer. I forget it's name, but I refuse to have it on my computer. I won't bother with UWO until the company decides to get rid of this software. |
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If you mean Game Guard, then yes, it's still there. |
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12/18/11 12:56:35 AM#9
Being an avid Uncharted Waters fan (and still are), I tried the game during beta. While I like what I saw, I must say this is exactly like Pirates of the Burning Sea! The gameplay, the combat, in fact I think they shares the same game engine. But UWO goes much more in detail than POtBS. The game itself is very different from any MMO, being a KOEI product and all. Well, KOEI used to make kickass games during DOS heyday. Liberty or death, Uncharted waters 1 and 2 to name a few. They slowed down a bit these days though. Nonetheless, UWO have great potential, I always wondered if I can be a pirate ingame. Never had the chance to explore that route during beta. I might give it a second go. |
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It's not so much that Koei slowed down as that they stopped translating a lot of their games into English. There were four Uncharted Waters console games, for example, but only two ever got translated into English. You can be a pirate, but there are some serious drawbacks to it. For starters, many areas are safe waters, including most of Europe, and other parts of the world sporadically. Most players can't be attacked if they're in safe waters, but anyone can attack pirates at any time. Another is that NPC navy ships will attack you if you're a pirate, while they'll leave everyone else alone. Another is that if countries hate you, they won't let you dock in their ports, or rather, they'll make you pay 1 million ducats to put into port, every single time. Jolo and Nassau are pirate ports where pirates can land, but that's it. You can probably be more selective in your targets and only make some countries hate you. There are some players who are full-time pirates in the game, but there aren't very many of them. ----- The game has mostly caught up to what is on the Asian servers. There is still the El Oriente expansion yet to come, but that will probably come to American servers in a month or two. The American servers already have the rest of the expansions (Aztec, Angkor, Inca, Ottoman, Tierra Americana). |
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ForumTroll
Apprentice Member
Joined: 10/20/11
Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie. |
12/31/11 2:16:35 AM#11
Like the above poster said "Holy Crap!" I will start by saying your "review" has A LOT of information in it. I'm getting the feeling it's somewhat of a guide as much as it is a review. I tried this game in beta and after reading your "review" I can see I barely scratched the surface. I'm beginning to think I might not be intelligent enough to play this game. I have a few questions before I even attempt to get into this game. 1. When I was in beta i surfed the forum a bit and read something about how Item Mall players have an extreme advantage in this game. Is that true? Also could you specify? 2. If I decided to play I would want to feel like I was making an impact on the game. I would probably roll a pirate, considering the fact that you said not many people play them. Is it hard for non cash shop players to play pirates? Are all three Expertise's Trade/Exploration/Battle equally viable for a pirate? 3. I know i could easily surf the forums for guide's, but as an experienced player I assume you have already done enough surfing for the both of us. I get the feeling that half the people who play the game don't understand the game as in the depth that you do. Can you post a link to a reliable "Pirate Guide"? Thats about all the questions I have for now. If I do decide to get into this game you can be assured I will be back to rack your brain. I would like to thank you and give you props for taking the time out of your gaming to post such a well written review/guide. We shall see if it is what could take me out of the boredom that I consider the genre to be. ~ForumTroll
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool." |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
12/31/11 2:45:57 AM#12
Holy crap, Quiz! Nice writeup, man. I had given up on UWO early on when I couldnt get that NetMarble installer and its odd proceudre to work properly, but I'm downloading now and planning to give it another try this weekend.
Thanks for the detaield review!
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
Originally posted by ForumTroll 1) The nature of the game is that even if Netmarble were inclined to have an item mall unbalance the game, it would take quite a bit of doing. In most games, if the company offered item mall stuff for +10% damage that didn't basically amount to making it a subscription game (see Champions Online for the latter), I'd be appalled and quit. In Uncharted Waters Online, that wouldn't amount to much more than a rounding error. There were two things that the poster in question was complaining about. One is NC ships, which basically let you use a high level ship at low levels. For comparison to WoW, suppose that the game had an item mall that let you use level 80 greens at level 20. That would make you vastly more powerful than normal level 20 players. It wouldn't make you nearly as powerful as level 80 players, though, as you'd still be stuck with level 20 skills. And it wouldn't have any impact on the endgame at all, where those level 80 greens are useless. The other thing he was complaining about is the blue flag. For $2, you can be immune to PVP for a day. You can have the item in your inventory, see the pirate coming for you, and pop it, rather than having to pay $2 every single day. A blue flag means both that others can't attack you in PVP, and also that you can't attack others. They don't get used very often, but a trader who wants to spend a lot of time around Ambon might consider it, as that's a pirate hotbed. Now, the power gap between lower levels and higher isn't nearly so dramatic in UWO as in WoW. A level 60 ship might be 20% better at everything than a level 40 ship with the same focus. (E.g., a level 40 ship built for combat will be dramatically better at combat than a level 60 ship built for speed.) There are a number of NC items that are clearly better than anything available otherwise. But they're expensive, they're not that much better ($10 so you can move 1% faster!), and they wear out, so hardly anyone gets them. There are also NC items for 30% faster ship speed outside of combat (but has no effect in combat), 30% faster experience gain, 30% faster fame gain, and 30% faster skill gain. If you wanted to keep all of those active, it might cost something like $30/month. I'm not sure how widely used they are, but you're hardly crippled without them. As best as I can tell, the game seems to be tuned to assume that you won't have them, as it was originally a subscription game in Japan. Netmarble was presumably looking for something they could tack on to sell, and that's what they came up with. If you're really going to spend $0 ever, that means you can't upgrade your ship very much. But fully upgrading a ship costs about $5, and you can keep the ship forever. Right now, I'm level 41/31/28, and have never upgraded a ship. I'm planning on upgrading the ship I have now, but probably only to 2/5, as that's enough to get max speed, and that's the only upgrade that I care about. 2) It's hard for low level players to play pirates, as being a pirate means that anyone can attack you without being penalized for it, even in safe waters. And high level players who aren't pirates often will. 3) I don't do much combat so I'm really the wrong person to ask about it. I will say that if you want to be a pirate, however, you should be a privateer instead. If you really want to attack everyone and everything, you'll have to pay 1 million ducats to dock anywhere besides Jolo and Nassau. If you decide to only attack players from England, Spain, or Portugal (while playing as some other country yourself), you'll have a much easier time of it while still being able to attack a substantial majority of the players in the game. |
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1/05/12 2:15:32 PM#14
holy... incredible, thanks for this. It is a shame MMOs like this swim in almost dead waters. |
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Originally posted by Herodes What's really a shame is when people on this forum insist that there aren't any AAA sandbox games, but they want to play one and they're hoping that some future AAA theme park will be slightly sandboxy. I'll reply to say, sure there are, and here's one. But then people immediately go on to making the same claims in other threads. I have actually played Atlantica, but if I were to write a review about it, it would be much shorter than this. That's mainly because there's much less to do there. Actually, that's true of every other game I've ever played except possibly for A Tale in the Desert. For what it's worth, I liked the combat in Atlantica, but can't think of anything else I liked about the game. I didn't like the quests, grouping, leveling curve, pvp, dungeons, mob pulling mechanics, alt-unfriendliness, item mall, crafting, maintenance times (during prime time? seriously?), or anything else that comes to mind. If there's only one thing I'm going to like about a game, for it to be combat is a good choice. But the game really needed to get at least some of the supplementary stuff right in order to be all that good. ----- "I'm getting the feeling it's somewhat of a guide as much as it is a review." I really hate it when supposed guides don't go into any more detail than what I showed above. So when I write a guide, I'll give a lot more detail. See here: Nearly as long as the first post in this thread, and it's all about adventuring discoveries, a topic that only gets eight paragraphs above. |
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1/06/12 7:22:32 AM#16
Thanks for the in-depth and well written overview Quizzical. After reading about UWO for a couple of days now, I've decided to give the game a shot.
No huge deal breaker - I'm expecting a good exploration and trade game, not a sim. But I'm curious.
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Originally posted by Pynda 1) Originally it was Netmarble only. My understanding is that now you're supposed to sign up with Gpotato. I'm not sure if you can still sign up through Netmarble and play the game that way. If you sign up through Gpotato, then to use the item mall, you buy through Gpotato and then can convert Gpotatoes to Netmarble Cash. 2) The naval combat is somewhat similar to Pirates of the Burning Sea. The wind still has effects in combat, so if a galley-type ship is fighting a ship that is heavy on horizontal sails, the galley will probably be the faster ship if they're going into the wind, and slower if they're going with the wind. Battles are usually between rather unequal ships. If it's a pvp battle, then it's often a pirate attacking a trader, and the pirate wants to board the trader to steal his stuff, while the trader only wants to get away and end the battle. Sometimes it's a few players in a group trying to catch and kill a pirate. Typically in pvp battles, a side wants to board the enemy ship so they can steal his stuff, not merely sink him. In pve battles, it's different. There, you often know whether you'll win or lose in case of a melee battle. If you'll win, then you try to board the enemy ship while you're not disordered. If it's close or you'll lose, then you try to disorder the enemy ship and then board. Or maybe you try to kite and kill the enemy with cannons. Much of ship combat is about boarding or not boarding, or perhaps rather, boarding when you'll win and not when you'll lose. 3) You can buy master craftsman tools for about 30k ducats each, and those will restore 1 maximum durability on your ship. If you've heavily upgraded a ship, this is worth doing rather than replacing the ship. For example, the xebec I use now cost about 26 million ducats to buy and upgrade, in addition to hours of trying to track down parts and shipbuilders. That's not counting the money I spent (a pro-rated $1.20) to buy the special shipbuilding permits to upgrade it to 2/5 (which got all the upgrades I wanted, so I'm not going to upgrade it further). If it gets down to 50% durability, then I'd need 330 MCTs to fully repair it. That would cost about 10 million ducats, which is a lot cheaper than buying another one. On the other hand, my combat ship is a galleon that wasn't upgraded at all. It cost me 2.7 million ducats new, and is now at 50% durability. It would be dramatically cheaper to simply vendor the ship (and get back about 1 million ducats for that) and buy a new one rather than to use MCTs to fix it. That's true of pretty much any ship that isn't upgraded, except for the NC ships. Then again, there's also the question of whether I'd care if my xebec is at 50% durability. It's not a combat ship, so if I'm attacked, I try to run away. For PVE purposes, I'm not likely to lose 330 durability before escaping. For PVP purposes, I'd rather be sunk than boarded, so having less durability isn't necessarily bad there, either. But this is largely moot, as in several days of use, it has only lost 9 off of its max durability. For it to get down to 50% durability might take most of a year, and it will be replaced long before then--likely in a couple of weeks or so. 4) Claiming that the economy is broken is completely nuts. At the top end, with people dumping hundreds of millions of ducats into ports to try to flip them, things might be crazy. I say "might be" because I don't know. But for anything else, prices have seemed fairly stable to me in the few months that I've played the game. By the time your first main level hits 30, you'll rarely see anything for sale other than NC items that you couldn't buy if you wanted it. There are several different things that multiboxers did, and they're fundamentally rather different types. One was to have an alt to store stuff, basically as a mule. That was a convenience to the player, and if anything, made crafitng services more widely widely available. Another was perpetual bazaars. A player might have an alt constantly running a bazaar selling various things, while his "real" character goes out and plays the game as normal. That really only made goods more widely available, albeit sometimes at stupid prices. The thing that got multiboxers a bad name is that you'd sometimes see two basically identical characters, with one constantly following the other around. That would mean both characters buy the same goods at the same time, and so forth, and thus the player makes money twice as fast. That's what I think needed to be cracked down on. I do think that was detrimental to the game economy, but hardly ruinous. |
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For end-game port flipping, the current distribution of the number of ports for each country is: England 32 Portugal 31 Netherlands 28 Spain 27 Venice 20 Ottoman 14 France 8 There are a lot of NPC ships that sail around doing investments, and ships of certain countries heavily invest in certain areas. Ottomans have fewer than most other countries in part because you can't start as Ottoman, so few players play them. Each country has about six or so ports that are "territories" rather than "allied ports", and they can never lose those. I could see why players who choose France might think the system is broken. But hardly anyone plays France. Some speculation is that it's because France wasn't available in the old console games, so while a significant chunk of the playerbase has an affinity for one country or another from the console games, it's never for France. For no country to have more than 1/5 of the game's ports looks like pretty good balance to me. |
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1/06/12 11:37:39 AM#19
If you hang on the "Downloading Version Check" screen.
Uninstall Adobe Flash. Then download and install the latest full version of Flash from Adobe. I then ran the UWO launcher, it seemed to do a further Flash update (almost like it was installing a special plugin), and then I was good to go.
Google "downloading version check" + UWO, and you'll find a lot of other ideas. It seems this problem can be caused by a few different things. Good luck. |
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Why not just start the download before you go to bed for the night, and leave it running overnight? |
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