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World of Tanks Forum » General Discussion » World of Tanks goes "Free-To-Win", Kicks PayToWin Out --->

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25 posts found
  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 448

 
OP  6/05/13 10:45:48 PM#1

 

 

Bam!

 

>>>>Link<<<<

 

Wargaming addressing the issue of Pay-To-Win, and the comments they make essentially insult other companies whom do PayToWin without meaning to. I love it :3!

 

 

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Why are you cutting all pay to win options?

Wargaming is a company delivering free-to-play online games, and we strongly believe that you can't provide a truly triple-A free-to-play experience without absolutely making sure all combat options are free of charge to all players. We don't want to nickel and dime our players -- we want to deliver gaming experiences and services that are based on the fair treatment of our players, whether they spend money in-game or not. 

The amount of time and effort payers and non-payers spend to succeed in-game may differ, but at the very least the list of accessible options at their disposal remain identical. 

Free-to-play games have the challenge of being sometimes viewed as low quality, and we want World of Tanks to serve as proof that a quality and balanced free-to-play game is possible. However, breaking down deeply-rooted stereotypes is no easy task. 

This isn't just about the game economics of World of Tanks, either. We aim to completely overhaul the free-to-play concept that exists as a whole in the gaming community by getting rid of the idea of "pay-to-win," ultimately helping lead what we consider the roll-out of "version 2.0" of free-to-play gaming.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Oh, and in the upcoming patches we're seeing a nerf to artillery, added "Heavy" spall liners that go up to 30% defense against HE shells (more nerf vs artillery).

 

Accuracy for all tanks, except SPG's, is being increased (most notably TD's).

Camo is being reworked with camo-nets providing more cover, and bushes less. Base camo for all tanks is being reworked too. Essentially a major buff for TDs here.

 

Etc etc and so forth....

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

6/05/13 10:48:17 PM#2
Wow. that's both ballsy and good.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2609

6/05/13 10:49:05 PM#3
It's nice to see they've seen their mistakes and are now taking action to fix them. Kudos for them.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1012

6/05/13 10:53:47 PM#4
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
It's nice to see they've seen their mistakes and are now taking action to fix them. Kudos for them.

I think it is more because they made so much money from Asia that they don't give a shit anymore.

 

World of Tanks is crazy popular in South East Asia. They have stands and shows and stuff in the street.

  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 448

 
OP  6/05/13 11:14:51 PM#5
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
It's nice to see they've seen their mistakes and are now taking action to fix them. Kudos for them.

I think it is more because they made so much money from Asia that they don't give a shit anymore.

 

World of Tanks is crazy popular in South East Asia. They have stands and shows and stuff in the street.

Or, the more realistic option, is that they realized that Gold Ammo and the like is keeping players again. Also that the other stuff they're keeping as premiums are where they actually make their money from.

 

I just hope free-xp becomes actually free instead of requiriing gold!

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

6/05/13 11:19:00 PM#6
With the original model, I don't play above tier 6 because repairs are too expensive if you are not in a gold tank or are premium. If that changes I may finally start working toward the higher tiers.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 448

 
OP  6/05/13 11:21:49 PM#7
Originally posted by ignore_me
With the original model, I don't play above tier 6 because repairs are too expensive if you are not in a gold tank or are premium. If that changes I may finally start working toward the higher tiers.

I avoid the higher tiers above 8 because Artillery ruins every game in 8-10 matches. 1800dmg shells landing on your TURRET is not fun when you only have 1600-1900hp.

  MMOGamer71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1519

6/05/13 11:24:21 PM#8
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
It's nice to see they've seen their mistakes and are now taking action to fix them. Kudos for them.

Or Warthunder is "close" to releasing tanks.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6700

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

6/05/13 11:25:35 PM#9

This sounds great but also sounds like a possible Rift idea is forth coming.Developers are not in the business of making free games nor do their employees work for free,something will have to give and it is always the game that suffers.

This can also be VERY misleading PR by the team.

Example PREMIUM vehicles,how is that not pay to win?Are they saying you could be every bit as competitive on foot?Not much fun gaming when you can't use the game contents.SO instead of pay to win it becomes pay to have fun and enjoy the game.What is the difference?

If you want a FAIR game,like you "pretend" to be doing,then just go straight up sub fee ,NO hidden costs that way.You can go 5 bucks a sub if you are all about fair or pretending to be doing the gamer's a favor.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Magnetia

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 967

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

6/05/13 11:29:06 PM#10
They are also increasing credit gains for higher tiers so when playing a t10 you might actually win some credits instead of losing 10,000 on a victory

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

6/05/13 11:38:25 PM#11

"What's wrong with pay to win, or for that matter, what's wrong with a lot of the F2P monetization schemes you see today?

The classic free-to-play model, particularly in regards to pay-to-win elements, follows one simple tenet -- the more you pay, the greater your advantage over other players. It results in huge payments from a small number of users (the so-called "whales") and increases a game's average ARPU [average revenue per user] and ARPPU [average revenue per paying user] numbers. Top-payers end up never losing, while those who pay less or don't pay grow dissatisfied with the game. Eventually, many leave entirely and the overall player base shrinks.

The World of Tanks monetization system is built the other way round. Deep gameplay and great replay value provide comfortable and fair conditions for everyone. The game has no overpowered weaponry and microtransactions don't give users any sort of advantage in combat. Premium items are priced so that players rarely end up having to spend a lot. We don't want World of Tanks players to feel like it's an experience that only a select few can afford. Quite contrary, we want the game to embody accessibility and fairness to all players, paying or not."

 

Amen!

There was another post toady about an apologist saying F2P games are not Charity...he should read this... I love how Monetization Practices are being exposed :P

Read and learn people.

 

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4675

6/05/13 11:41:16 PM#12

You've been able to buy gold ammo with credits for months but ppl still complain it's p2w. Not because they can't get it, but because they've been using it as an excuse for so long they don't want it to change.

I think it's good the direction they're going and trying to set an example but people will always complain about p2w as long as a game charges for anything. 

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

6/05/13 11:46:25 PM#13
Originally posted by Wizardry

This sounds great but also sounds like a possible Rift idea is forth coming.Developers are not in the business of making free games nor do their employees work for free,something will have to give and it is always the game that suffers.

This can also be VERY misleading PR by the team.

Example PREMIUM vehicles,how is that not pay to win?Are they saying you could be every bit as competitive on foot?Not much fun gaming when you can't use the game contents.SO instead of pay to win it becomes pay to have fun and enjoy the game.What is the difference?

If you want a FAIR game,like you "pretend" to be doing,then just go straight up sub fee ,NO hidden costs that way.You can go 5 bucks a sub if you are all about fair or pretending to be doing the gamer's a favor.

Can we dispense with the business apologetics...do you pay the developers from your pocket?

 

Now, Premium Tanks are not Pay to Win because they do not have advantages in combat over other non premium same tier Tanks, in fact non premium tanks have better stats/performance because they can be upgraded.

The only advantage to Premium Tanks is that they give 50% more Cash at the conclusion of the battle.

And that does not make you win a battle.

It only helps you get money faster to buy that Tier IX you are ready for in another Tech line.

 

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  thinktank001

Elite Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1843

6/06/13 12:03:21 AM#14
The game is still P2W, but is a bit more fair now.  
  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2642

6/06/13 12:18:06 AM#15
Originally posted by DamonVile

You've been able to buy gold ammo with credits for months but ppl still complain it's p2w. Not because they can't get it, but because they've been using it as an excuse for so long they don't want it to change.

I think it's good the direction they're going and trying to set an example but people will always complain about p2w as long as a game charges for anything. 

I don't play this, so I cannot say, but generally, if it is more than cosmetic, or not DLC, I do not like it.  The less pay 2 win in any game is good for people imo.  I would like to see more pay to open content, and give like 25-40% of the content for free, but do not rape people on the charge for the content unlocks.  This encourages more content being made that people want to play imo.  I just want to get away from paying for xp potions, gear, increased drops/money etc...

 

  Pale_Fire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/04/04
Posts: 360

6/07/13 8:05:48 AM#16
Originally posted by thinktank001
The game is still P2W, but is a bit more fair now.  

And this illustrates why there is nothing any developer of a game with a microtransaction  revenue model will be able to do to change the perception of some.  There is always someone who will accuse them of cheating players.  After all, a subscription is not worth it and free is never free enough.

  Rokurgepta

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 2208

6/07/13 10:09:36 AM#17
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
It's nice to see they've seen their mistakes and are now taking action to fix them. Kudos for them.

Or Warthunder is "close" to releasing tanks.

Even if they release tanks it will be a couple of years before the tank part is as good as WOT is now.

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2286

"Free to play, pay to win""

6/07/13 10:21:46 AM#18
I'lle start clapping when they remove "gold" ammo. Untill then....pssshhh.

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  Cirran

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/08
Posts: 4

6/10/13 4:10:39 AM#19

They say they want to break into the e-sport business. I think this will take off in Russia and maybe SE Asia. I am curious if they will ever address some of the least played vehicles in the game. What I mean is there are certain vehicles both normal and premium you never see played. They are simply sub par when compared to their peers at the same tier. Also very curious how they will look at balancing tanks. If they are serious about e-sports. ALL the vehicles of the same class and tier will have to be very close to each other, (I.E. less then a 1% difference between the best and worse).  LOL, I think they will milk their cash cow as long as possible then run it into the ground.

 

cirran

  cptndunsel

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 117

6/23/13 12:52:09 AM#20

what is interesting here are the misperceptions.

 

Gold (and in this case lets assume purchased gold versus a gift from a promo) gives all of the following "pay to win" type advantages.

1. Premium acct - earn silver at 50% bonus, faster crew training

2. Premium tank - earn higher amt of silver in a given match than you could normally earn, some tanks get preferential match-making and will see lower tier opponents, ability to use as a training platform for other crewmen assigned to similar class tanks.

There are a not of advantages - its not just to earn more as someone suggested. The ability to take crew from another tank and get additional training cycles in is pretty huge.

3. Gold allows you to convert "free exp" thus speeding up the grind and/or allowing you to skip junk tanks. Normal players are forced to grind every upgrade on a tank, and stock tanks often suck. And they can't skip a tank that's a piece of turd to get to the next one in the tree that they actually want to play. But if you use gold - you can start with a tank fully upgraded and skip tanks that are trash to get the ones you want. This is huge - and your win % will be much higher.

4. Gold allows you to train all crew to 100% on day 1 rather than grind. That allows you to begin working on perks immediately - the normal player is stuck at 75% crew max, must grind a lot to get to 100%, and they will not perform as well. Again - this impacts silver earnings and win %.

5. Gold consumables can give crew boost, repair boost, horsepower boost etc - all help.

6. Having premium acct + tanks = more silver so you can afford the high cost of gold ammo (in silver). When you have silver to burn its easy to justify a loadout of gold ammo versus a casual player. Gold ammo does more dmg, which equals more silver earnings and higher experience for crew.

 

To summarize - pay to win features enhance silver earning, win %, and overall fun experience a great deal. The casual player is going to be forced to eat a lot of dirt grinding everything to achieve similar results, and that takes a lot of time where the game is not going to be much fun. This gets worse the higher you go as the exp needed to grind modules for tier 8 and above is insanely expensive.

 

So WG can say what ever they like - its not a free-to-win game. I been playing for 2 years and its gotten worse over time.

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