Originally posted by Mirokata

Originally posted by Penintime

The reason I like that Xsyon is different isn't that it makes me feel special, it is simply that it has some features I want in a game and that it lacks certain other features that I detest. An example of what I like is a big world where I can make my mark, where I can go off exploring and gather resources, build many different buildings and admire others, craft many different items. I like the aesthetics, the graphics, compared to Minecraft, a tale in the sand, wurm.  Some of the things I am glad are not in Xsyon (that are in basically every other game out there): elves, classes, anime-style, revealing female armor, numbers and symbols flashing across your screen at the speed of light in combat, crappy storyline quests, etc.

Actually, I just wanted to know what she finds fun about Xsyon, since the fact that she hasn't been able to actually answer that question yet makes me wonder. Penintime, you told us that you like Xsyon because it has some features and lacks other.. except virtually no sandboxes have any of those negative features you listed, and most sandboxs also have the features you like, like a big world where you can make your mark, explore, gather, build, admire, craft, etc.... AKA the features that define the sandbox genre. The thing that wins you over to Xsyon is apparently the aesthetics and graphics.

It really is that simple, I like the combination of features I listed and the lack of ones I don't like. All the sandboxes I have seen that have a similar sized world, level of graphics (or better), etc, always have one of the "dealbreaker" features that I can't stand. And the ones who don't have any of these features are for example wurm or minecraft and frankly I can't live with the visual side of it, the soulless worlds, the identical toons. So it isn't just visuals, but the combination of features. If, as you claim, there are lots of better games that match my criteria, please tell me, I'd be delighted.

The way you phrase it makes it sound like you haven't even actually played Xsyon. You just listed high-level features as the reason you enjoy playing a game; that's ridiculous. Treat this like you're selling Xsyon gameplay to someone who has played every other sandbox game out there -- what do you say?

I'm not out to sell Xsyon to anyone, I just want people who might be looking for the same thing I was, not to be deterred without trying it for themselves. Look, it seems that you think there are "real gamers" and then other people- who's opinions and experiences don't matter. I don't care if "it sounds like I haven't even played Xsyon" or if my explanation is "ridiculous" to you. What is ridiculous to me is that you can't just take my word for it - not that the game is good of course, but that I like it. It is like if I said my favourite ice cream is chocolate and you said "explain it or I won't believe it" and "that is such a shallow explanation, it makes me think you haven't even had chocolate ice cream" "your only motivation for liking choc ice cream is that it is creamy and chocolatey - that is ridiculous!" No, it is my opinion. It is subjective, just like yours. 

I don't know why you think this is a trick question, cause it should be really, really simple... that is, if you actually have fun playing Xsyon.

Ok, I admit, it was all a joke - I have never played it, and when I didn't play it, I HATED it! I was just winding you up all this time! 

Ex. I had fun crafting in ATITD because the process of making items always involved some interesting and involving mechanic implemented through a phsyical object in the game world, which really added to the immersion. They ranged from simple (baking bricks in the sun) to complex (operating a furnace, using tools to shape metal on an anvil). Failure was possible, but never felt unfair since you were always responsible for the failure, not some random number generator. 

I love the world. how it consists of mostly realistic and lush wilderness. When I am in game I really do feel like a survivor of an apocalypse, this is what the world might look like, with nature taking over and people here and there, trying to make a living where and how they can. I love the building simulation feel, where I can make my own estate, just how I want it. It is a lot of fun designing how I want it to look, and it is taking a hell of a lot of effort but when it is done I will be super proud. I like to set off and just walk, as far as I can go before I get eaten by some critter, and look at what other people are building, meeting new people and exploring, with few things disturbing my immersion. I like the stark contrast between my hermit moments on the one hand, and the cooperative aspect on the other; I chat and hang out with the people who live close by and when a mutant drifts by we scream and run and sometimes we fight and often we die together. Doing all this in a world that again has the combination of features, is what it is about for me.

To me it is mostly about ambiance, not game mechanics. When those technical aspects are improved I will be even happier and have even more fun. If that never happens, I will probably enjoy Xsyon until another game comes along that can give me even more of what I want. But in itself, it is a world where I like to be. I work on my homestead, wander in the mountains, admire the creativity of other players and enjoy the community.

Again my problem you are talking about 100s of people, yet there hasnt been 100s of people in Xsyon since release.

You care to tell us how many people you are playing with in your tribe and friendly tribes you are having so much fun with? I bet its under 20.

I know what tribe you are in. There is very few people playing in your tribe and in the game. My point is stop trying to mislead people to "Check it out" when there is no way for them to check it out without buying this at best game that should still be in beta.

This game is lacking massive features. You saying you have fun in Xsyon great, you are one of the very very few I would say maybe 10 people are having that kind of fun in the game. Next, I can have fun in  just about in game if I'm playing with a buddy of mine and we are just laughing and joking and not caring about the game.

Try not to scam people into buying the game just because you want more people playing the game. Better is to lay out the facts, give your opinions on what you like and dislike and let them choose. Dont purposely hide issues the game has like only about 30 people online at anyone time playing. Or the poor combat and crafting systems, the horrid economy, the worst PVE Ive seen in just about any game etc.

I would not tell anyone to try this game in its current state. With the guide abuse, the lack of features, the crashing, the lag spikes, the bad combat, the horrid PVE, the PVP lacking any type of moves or goals, the broken economy, the slow development and the grind of a crafting system. With its 1 rewarding feature is the building/terraforming system. I can not see anyone really having fun in this game. I'm also sure your fun will be short lived once you start to understand the game more.

Can Xsyon be a great game, I'm sure it can. Im here to help try to offer bug reports and add suggestions to making that happen. It will only work so far. If the devs dont take those ideas and put them in the game correctly instead of 1/2 asred then not much else players can do.

Example. Planting trees is a great idea. Poorly done. Instead of having a robust system for planting trees that used economy, skills and tools. They had it so you pick up a seed, and right click and plant it. That's the tree planting system. There is no using a shovel to dig a patch of dirt, there is no watering it, there is no way to use different types of soil, there is no way to use a tool to prune it, or harvest saplings, or anyway to improve the tree once you put the seed in the ground.

Great idea, turned into a meh idea at best. This is where I believe the core of the problem is, the Devs just dont focus on fixing the problems and updating features with good working features. They are so intend on knee jerk reactions to these couple of dozen of players they have trying to fix issues that are not really issues.

Like able to open doors of tribes that build doors near their border. They updated that you cant open the door unless you are in that tribe all because a few players didnt know that if they were overlapping the edge of the tribe lands they could be opened by anyone. This hurt NO ONE in game, you still couldnt steal from their tribe, you couldnt attack them, and many people built like this knowing it was able to be done so that other players could come into their tribes. No they had to fix it because a few players started to cry about it.

Ive been around a long time, and the changes I've been seeing are a major step in the wrong directions. (I do like this rezoning of areas, if only they put more planning into it)

Originally posted by MrDDT

Again my problem you are talking about 100s of people, yet there hasnt been 100s of people in Xsyon since release.

Well, if you actually READ my post before flying off the handle you would see why your entire response is way off as I clearly said I DIDN'T mean there were hundreds of players. I DID .NOT. MEAN HUNDREDS. 

This game is lacking massive features. You saying you have fun in Xsyon great, you are one of the very very few I would say maybe 10 people are having that kind of fun in the game. Next, I can have fun in  just about in game if I'm playing with a buddy of mine and we are just laughing and joking and not caring about the game.

So me having fun isn't valid because I am one of a few? Again I'm getting bloody fed up with the snobbism on this forum. I haven't made any claims other than about my personal opinion.

Try not to scam people into buying the game just because you want more people playing the game. Better is to lay out the facts, give your opinions on what you like and dislike and let them choose. Dont purposely hide issues the game has like only about 30 people online at anyone time playing. Or the poor combat and crafting systems, the horrid economy, the worst PVE Ive seen in just about any game etc.

 Oh, so now I am scamming? I like the game, I am not lying about that, what can I say? Again, I did not claim that there are hundreds of people, read my post. Chill out, because I am not trying to paint the game as some perfect product - just trying to provide a bit of nuanace because this thread, actually this entire forum, is so biased towards negativity it is unbelieveble. I have laid out the facts and given my opinion, so have you, what is the problem? The problem is when people start going out of line and talking about how Xsyon is a scam and claiming that I must be an empolyee of NG because I play the game and don't hate it. 

I would not tell anyone to try this game in its current state. With the guide abuse, the lack of features, the crashing, the lag spikes, the bad combat, the horrid PVE, the PVP lacking any type of moves or goals, the broken economy, the slow development and the grind of a crafting system. With its 1 rewarding feature is the building/terraforming system. I can not see anyone really having fun in this game. I'm also sure your fun will be short lived once you start to understand the game more.

I would tell someone to buy the game if they are looking for what I was looking for; that certain aestethic, the ambiance, building and terraforming tools, cool tribes to hang out in. There are clearly people who are looking for that, those people hearing my side of things would not be scammed. They might not be the hardcore gamers, but really, not everyone who play mmos are, some just want a interesting lore, a detailed world to be in. For those people, my opinion is valid. MrDDT you are a different kind of gamer from me, so try to remember that when you say that you can't see anyone really having fun in this game; not everyone is like you. I don't have much time to spend on games, I will probably never max out most of my skills or reach that end-game scenario when I have nothing left to do - or if I do, either the game will have progressed or I will move on to something else. That goes for other gamers too, not everyone is even looking for that. 

Originally posted by MrDDT

My point is stop trying to mislead people to "Check it out" when there is no way for them to check it out without buying this at best game that should still be in beta.

I agree, it is like a beta game. I would tell people who want to try it to hang on because it seems there will be free trials soon. So no need to gamble the 40 bucks.

You understand that NOT telling your friend about all the other issues with the game and only pointing out the good things is scamming right?

It would be like me selling a car and saying. Oh man this car gets great MPG and its very fast, it rides smooth. Oh I forgot to tell you that it breaks down every 10mins, you cant drive it in the USA where you live because the EPA will not allow it, the tires will fall off it after 2 miles.

With friends like you, I would hate to see what my enimies would be like.

I didnt say you said 100s were playing, I'm saying you even brought up the realm of 100s. The game isnt even close to having 100s in it, why would you use that as a gauge? It would be like me saying "Well yeah there isnt a lot of people playing Diablo 3, there isnt Billions of people playing it" why dont you use a real term so people can gauge the depth of what I'm saying. There isnt 50 online. We are talking about 10s of people playing it not even in the realm of 100s yet. Ive seen more people on a minecraft server than in the MMO of Xsyon.

About you having fun. I didnt say you were not having fun or couldnt have fun. I was pointing out that I have fun in the crappest games in the world doesnt mean I would tell my friends "Hey this is a good game come play it", I'm having fun not because of the game itself but because my friends are playing it, or I met some cool people.

You say you "layed out facts" and "gave my opinions".

You didnt lay out crap for facts, you gave your very very bias and short sighted opinions. When people are laying out the facts you try to slam them saying "Hey I'm somoene having fun in the game because I like things that no one else likes thus the game is good"

Why are these forums biased to negative opinions? Because of how many people dislike the game, 1000s of people were burned when Xsyon was released. Nothing has changed really to make the game so even 10% of those people want to come back. That's why there is so much hate. On top of that things are getting worse not better. Between the guide abuse, the censorship on the live forums, and the very lack of updates I dont see this game ever having more than 100 people online.

About Xsyon being a scam, I dont think its a scam. I'm saying you are scamming people because of you lack of giving them the full truth of the game, you trying to paint it all rosie when there are many many many many many many (is that enough manys?) issues with Xsyon, that you fail to talk about or you pass over with a simple wave of your hand in a small statement like "Economy isnt great, but what games have a working economy?" as if economy in Xsyon is even remotely working. Heck they still have yet to fix a trade bug where you can scam other players by hitting accept 2 times in a trade you know why? No one cares, no one freaking trades at all.

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MrDDT you are a different kind of gamer from me, so try to remember that when you say that you can't see anyone really having fun in this game; not everyone is like you. I don't have much time to spend on games, I will probably never max out most of my skills or reach that end-game scenario when I have nothing left to do - or if I do, either the game will have progressed or I will move on to something else.

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I want to quote this to show you how bad you are talking about here.

You say you are not like me. I'm sure of this. Next you talk about how you likely wont reach end game scenario when you have nothing left to do or if you do you will MOVE ON, let me point out how many others said the same exact thing as you over a year ago. You know what? They quit. They moved on. Again you fail to see the issue here. Even people like you who are in love with this game will QUIT!!! Sure it might take you a few months vs someone like my type of player will figure it out in a week or so, but you still quit, because of the same reasons I've already stated and you are trying to defend it. Its clear to me your types dont understand what this does. You play the game and throw it away. Your statements on how its so fun to you "now" isn't helping the game. Xsyon is not keeping players for really any length of time. Sure there is a very small % like you who likely will play it 2 or even 6 months, but after that time you will quit. Instead of saying "I love this game its fun" and leaving out all the issues, why not post something worthwhile that will help the game on ways to make it better for you. Because there will become a time when you are done with the game due to the same issues we are talking about. Then you will either have 2 choices. 1)You will leave without a word. Or 2)Be like many of the people posting here, posting why the game is doing crappy.

You talk about "not everyone is looking for that" I'm not looking for everyone to play Xsyon, but cant we both agree that more than a couple dozen online is not enough?

Originally posted by MrDDT

You understand that NOT telling your friend about all the other issues with the game and only pointing out the good things is scamming right?

It would be like me selling a car and saying. Oh man this car gets great MPG and its very fast, it rides smooth. Oh I forgot to tell you that it breaks down every 10mins, you cant drive it in the USA where you live because the EPA will not allow it, the tires will fall off it after 2 miles.

With friends like you, I would hate to see what my enimies would be like.

 No, it isn't like that at all, because it is about context. This thread is full of people talking about these issues, I don't have to reiterate them all every time. Your car analogy doesn't apply. It is more like were looking at a car with some other people, they are discussing the issues and the pros and cons, how it is basically a shell and needs total refurbishment, but if a project is what you are looking for then it might be a good deal. Then someone comes in and says "the car is stolen, they real owner is a gangster who will kill anyone who is cought driving it, oh and there is a dead decomposing homeless person in the trunk". I say - no, that isn't true, the car is used but it isn't stolen and I checked the trunk earlier and it was empty. Am I a bad friend for not also repeating all the other issues, when we both just heard about them? I am not trying to paint an overly rosy picture here, I just want certain people (I don't mean you) to take off their foil hats and stop lying. 

I didnt say you said 100s were playing, I'm saying you even brought up the realm of 100s. The game isnt even close to having 100s in it, why would you use that as a gauge? It would be like me saying "Well yeah there isnt a lot of people playing Diablo 3, there isnt Billions of people playing it" why dont you use a real term so people can gauge the depth of what I'm saying. There isnt 50 online. We are talking about 10s of people playing it not even in the realm of 100s yet. Ive seen more people on a minecraft server than in the MMO of Xsyon.

 I guess you interpreted me wrong then because I was trying to make the point that there are not even hundreds playing. You are marking words now which is needless because I admit that there ia a very low population, to the point where saying even hundreds would be an exaggeration. 

About you having fun. I didnt say you were not having fun or couldnt have fun. I was pointing out that I have fun in the crappest games in the world doesnt mean I would tell my friends "Hey this is a good game come play it", I'm having fun not because of the game itself but because my friends are playing it, or I met some cool people.

 Only I don't think Xsyon is a shitty game so me saying it isn't isn't untrue. I haven't claimed that all the deatures are great and working, I have described other aspects that I like, and yeah they are subjective, so is any opinon, on account of being an opinion.

You say you "layed out facts" and "gave my opinions".

You didnt lay out crap for facts, you gave your very very bias and short sighted opinions. When people are laying out the facts you try to slam them saying "Hey I'm somoene having fun in the game because I like things that no one else likes thus the game is good"

Again, I listed the features I likes, if you find them irrelevant that isn't my problem. I don't slam people who criticise it, I "slam" people who 1) claim the game is a scam - it isn't. 2) Talk about features that have been changed and are therefore no longer relevant, or representative or gameplay. 3) Go to personal attack against people, arguing ethnicity or language to dismiss their opinion. 4) Suggest that anyone who likes the game must work for NG, that is ridiculous.

About Xsyon being a scam, I dont think its a scam. I'm saying you are scamming people because of you lack of giving them the full truth of the game, you trying to paint it all rosie when there are many many many many many many (is that enough manys?) issues with Xsyon, that you fail to talk about or you pass over with a simple wave of your hand in a small statement like "Economy isnt great, but what games have a working economy?" as if economy in Xsyon is even remotely working. Heck they still have yet to fix a trade bug where you can scam other players by hitting accept 2 times in a trade you know why? No one cares, no one freaking trades at all.

I am as you say "simply waving my hand" here, saying that the game has some promise, it also has real issues to discuss, so let's not make up false and fabricated ones.

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MrDDT you are a different kind of gamer from me, so try to remember that when you say that you can't see anyone really having fun in this game; not everyone is like you. I don't have much time to spend on games, I will probably never max out most of my skills or reach that end-game scenario when I have nothing left to do - or if I do, either the game will have progressed or I will move on to something else.

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I want to quote this to show you how bad you are talking about here.

You say you are not like me. I'm sure of this. Next you talk about how you likely wont reach end game scenario when you have nothing left to do or if you do you will MOVE ON, let me point out how many others said the same exact thing as you over a year ago. You know what? They quit. They moved on. Again you fail to see the issue here. Even people like you who are in love with this game will QUIT!!! Sure it might take you a few months vs someone like my type of player will figure it out in a week or so, but you still quit, because of the same reasons I've already stated and you are trying to defend it. Its clear to me your types dont understand what this does. You play the game and throw it away. Your statements on how its so fun to you "now" isn't helping the game. Xsyon is not keeping players for really any length of time. Sure there is a very small % like you who likely will play it 2 or even 6 months, but after that time you will quit. Instead of saying "I love this game its fun" and leaving out all the issues, why not post something worthwhile that will help the game on ways to make it better for you. Because there will become a time when you are done with the game due to the same issues we are talking about. Then you will either have 2 choices. 1)You will leave without a word. Or 2)Be like many of the people posting here, posting why the game is doing crappy.

But the thing is, I don't know how to fix the game, so I'm not going to pretend that I do. Of course players coming and rage quitting is really destructive to the game, but there is also the problem where if new people don't try it, or if only people like you who are long timers and hardcore players who know and think about every mechanic and feature play it,  they don't have the money to fix the shit they need to fix. If I do get bored and quit, I might come back and tell people "yeah it got boring". I wouldn't however take it personal and start lying about it. 

You talk about "not everyone is looking for that" I'm not looking for everyone to play Xsyon, but cant we both agree that more than a couple dozen online is not enough?

Yeah, I agree, the game needs improvement and a larger population. Can't we both agree that since there are real issues with the gane, advising someone not to buy the game because Jordi has a russian wife, which Mirokata did, is needless and rude? 

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Originally posted by Penintime

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 No, it isn't like that at all, because it is about context. This thread is full of people talking about these issues, I don't have to reiterate them all every time. Your car analogy doesn't apply. It is more like were looking at a car with some other people, they are discussing the issues and the pros and cons, how it is basically a shell and needs total refurbishment, but if a project is what you are looking for then it might be a good deal. Then someone comes in and says "the car is stolen, they real owner is a gangster who will kill anyone who is cought driving it, oh and there is a dead decomposing homeless person in the trunk". I say - no, that isn't true, the car is used but it isn't stolen and I checked the trunk earlier and it was empty. Am I a bad friend for not also repeating all the other issues, when we both just heard about them? I am not trying to paint an overly rosy picture here, I just want certain people (I don't mean you) to take off their foil hats and stop lying.     I guess you interpreted me wrong then because I was trying to make the point that there are not even hundreds playing. You are marking words now which is needless because I admit that there ia a very low population, to the point where saying even hundreds would be an exaggeration.   Only I don't think Xsyon is a shitty game so me saying it isn't isn't untrue. I haven't claimed that all the deatures are great and working, I have described other aspects that I like, and yeah they are subjective, so is any opinon, on account of being an opinion. Again, I listed the features I likes, if you find them irrelevant that isn't my problem. I don't slam people who criticise it, I "slam" people who 1) claim the game is a scam - it isn't. 2) Talk about features that have been changed and are therefore no longer relevant, or representative or gameplay. 3) Go to personal attack against people, arguing ethnicity or language to dismiss their opinion. 4) Suggest that anyone who likes the game must work for NG, that is ridiculous.   I am as you say "simply waving my hand" here, saying that the game has some promise, it also has real issues to discuss, so let's not make up false and fabricated ones. But the thing is, I don't know how to fix the game, so I'm not going to pretend that I do. Of course players coming and rage quitting is really destructive to the game, but there is also the problem where if new people don't try it, or if only people like you who are long timers and hardcore players who know and think about every mechanic and feature play it,  they don't have the money to fix the shit they need to fix. If I do get bored and quit, I might come back and tell people "yeah it got boring". I wouldn't however take it personal and start lying about it.  Yeah, I agree, the game needs improvement and a larger population. Can't we both agree that since there are real issues with the gane, advising someone not to buy the game because Jordi has a russian wife, which Mirokata did, is needless and rude? 

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About the car. I dont think its anything like you said. First most of the stuff they are saying here is true. Do you disagree with that? I think you might disagree with how they are saying it, or how far out they are saying it, but you surely cant say they are wrong or lying. You are saying "Not its not X" when I'm here to say it is like X, maybe not just like or as bad as they said it, but it surely is.

I've already agreed with what others here are saying that you are talking about. So you are in fact saying I'm wrong too. So I backed up my info with more data, to allow the people reading to make the choice themselves. Now you are saying you agree with what Ive been saying. Yet I'm saying what the other posts are saying is correct. (Not everything but most off it)

I dont see a lot of lies here, I do see people like you leaving out important information. Skewing the data.

About the game being a scam or not. Your statement about how you slam people that "claim the game is a scam - it isnt" yet not talk about or debate why its not a scam doesnt change the fact they still believe it is. When you say "It isnt" is a statement as if its a statement of fact, when really you should say something like "I dont think its a scam" even better would be "I dont think its a scam and this is why ..."

Where are the "false" statements about the game? Can you list a few so I can talk about these ones?

At least you agree the game needs fixing. Is players coming here destructive to the game? Sure, but it also has the effect of helping other people out who are on the fence about looking into the game, it also has the effect that maybe Xsyon dev team might understand why they are quitting and upset.
Them not having the money to fix shit shouldnt mean that people should omit info about how bad the game is, or even completely mislead them, so that they have their money. Sounds to me like you are out to help NG and not the people. See this is why the others are posting here, they are not here to get NG more money. They are trying to inform people why the game has issues what the issues are, and warn them of their experience.

I'm pretty sure no one is advising people not to buy the game solely on the if his wife is Russian or not. You missed his whole point too. It wasnt what race his wife was, it wasnt even if he had a wife or not. It was the fact they are mixing business with personal life. I didnt find it rude at all. I think he has a valid point mostly however, in this case I dont think it applies.

Originally posted by MrDDT

So when you are listing your opinions you agree with what others are saying about the game save for the points that you noted? I'm pretty sure no one sees this when you are writing.

Pretty much, yeah. Which I have clearly stated. The main difference being that I don't find these issues to be game breaking - there is a lot of game there to fill it in, mainly the building simulation. 

About the car. I dont think its anything like you said. First most of the stuff they are saying here is true. Do you disagree with that? I think you might disagree with how they are saying it, or how far out they are saying it, but you surely cant say they are wrong or lying. You are saying "Not its not X" when I'm here to say it is like X, maybe not just like or as bad as they said it, but it surely is.

"Most of the stuff they are saying is true". I was trying to illustrate in my point about the car that there are two forms of criticism here, the first part - which I am not denying in any way, though as I have said I find it less game breaking than others- and what I expect you are referring to when you say "most of the stuff". Then there is the second part, which is the part that that I have a problem with, and I guess it is what you are referring to as "not everything".

Is this really so hard? You agree with most but not everything these other posters are saying. I disagree with some of the things they are saying (and especially how they say it) but not all. It is pretty clear that I could still agree with some things you are saying..

I've already agreed with what others here are saying that you are talking about. So you are in fact saying I'm wrong too. So I backed up my info with more data, to allow the people reading to make the choice themselves. Now you are saying you agree with what Ive been saying. Yet I'm saying what the other posts are saying is correct. (Not everything but most off it)

I dont see a lot of lies here, I do see people like you leaving out important information. Skewing the data.

"not a lot of lies". Well, what is a lot? A lie, some lies, a lot of lies. Again this is just semantics.

About the game being a scam or not. Your statement about how you slam people that "claim the game is a scam - it isnt" yet not talk about or debate why its not a scam doesnt change the fact they still believe it is. When you say "It isnt" is a statement as if its a statement of fact, when really you should say something like "I dont think its a scam" even better would be "I dont think its a scam and this is why ..."

So you basically don't like how I write. 

Where are the "false" statements about the game? Can you list a few so I can talk about these ones?

I have listed them over and over. 

Sounds to me like you are out to help NG and not the people. See this is why the others are posting here, they are not here to get NG more money. They are trying to inform people why the game has issues what the issues are, and warn them of their experience.

Really, that is how it sounds to you? Me saying I will play the game and move on, and then agreeing with you that this might be destructive leads you to that conclusion. I really don't understand you people, what I'd like to know is how anyone is supposed to be able to have a discussion when people are so bleemin immature?  Really? Ok, I give up. I really can't be bothered trying to explain this again. Whatever man. I'm out.

So you wont tell us why you like the game only that you like it.

So you wont tell us what they are saying is a lie.

So you also wont explain pretty much anything. When people call you out on it, you get vague and defensive. Sounds to me like you are someone that needs to figure out why you are even posting here.

Then you resort to personal attacks. (And wide sweeping attacks)

You really need to take a hard look at what you are saying and why. You cant even explain what is going on, when you are questioned on it you get even more upset. Why would you get upset because people question your views? Why not just explain why you feel that way. When someone questions you on that, explain why. That's how a discussion works. You keep doing that until people understand.

You ask how you can have this discussion with "you people", don't you see this is also what these other guys are saying about you in a round about way?
To them its clear what they are saying because they understand it when they are saying it, they cant see how you cant see it.

Anyways on the topic.

Xsyon vs Minecraft. Xsyon is getting worse Minecraft is getting better. Xsyon has yet to update anything that I can tell my friends to go check out, in a long time. When this starts happening, maybe then Xsyon will be an active game.
There is a reason why there is so few people playing Xsyon.

Originally posted by MrDDT

So you wont tell us why you like the game only that you like it.

I already did.

So you wont tell us what they are saying is a lie.

I already did.

So you also wont explain pretty much anything. When people call you out on it, you get vague and defensive. Sounds to me like you are someone that needs to figure out why you are even posting here.

Sounds like you are calling me out for things you yourself have done and definately others in this thread have done. It is a double bind situation- which is why I don't want to answer again.

Then you resort to personal attacks. (And wide sweeping attacks)

What are you referring to here? There have been plenty of personal attacks but I'd hazard to say that most of them weren't coming from me.

You really need to take a hard look at what you are saying and why. You cant even explain what is going on, when you are questioned on it you get even more upset. Why would you get upset because people question your views? Why not just explain why you feel that way. When someone questions you on that, explain why. That's how a discussion works. You keep doing that until people understand.

Hell right, I don't know what is going on- I have been agreeing with most of your points. Then you turn around and slam me for it. I have explained myself, and explained again. I'm not "upset" that you don't agree with my views. I am fed up that you act like they are not valid.

You ask how you can have this discussion with "you people", don't you see this is also what these other guys are saying about you in a round about way?
To them its clear what they are saying because they understand it when they are saying it, they cant see how you cant see it.

Look, that is just a bunch of words that don't mean anything, and that basically boil down to you guys not respecting what I have to say for bs reasons.  I can't see how you don't get what I am trying to say either, but there we have it. We are not going to understand each other.

 It is just back to square one over and over. You keep saying "tell us why you like it" - I have, several times. If that is not what you wanted to hear, that is one thing - but stop acting like I haven't explained it when I have. I don't want to repeat it again, it is in the tread already.

You like it because it has the ambience you're looking for, and checks off the list of features you want / don't want. You don't really 'play' Xsyon, you just enjoy being in that world. You like the world of Xsyon, not the gameplay

That's fine, I totally respect that mindset, and I recognize that those kind of players are actually pretty vital to these kind of games. Without people dancing and playing music in the cantinas of SWG, the game world would have been pretty dry.

However, most people don't share that mindset. Most people playing video games, especially FFA PvP MMOs, give at least some weight to game mechanics. They don't just check off the list of features they want / don't want and then head in -- they care how well those features are implemented. You need to recognize that you have no idea what we're talking about in this regard. We're talking about actual game mechanics, which is really the only thing that needs to be discussed by the players like this. A prospective player wants to know what the ambience of Xsyon is? Just watch a video or a stream. Here is a really recent stream that accurately shows that ambience: http://www.twitch.tv/massivelytv/b/326827805 (spoiler: she's running or dieing or being spawn camped for the entire 1 hr).

About your opinion: We get it. It's nice and all, but you reached the limit of it's relevance at post #1. There is much more to Xsyon than the ambience, and that's what the rest of us are talking about.

About the accusations of lying: If you want to keep bringing this up as a point that should be talked about, the onus is on you to address that issue. I'm super willing to respond to any claims you have, and in fact I already have earlier in this thread. I responded to: being able to run away from zombies, Jordi's wife, and the scam issue. If you're too lazy to rephrase your accusations, then at least go back and quote what you first said.

About your dislike for my tone: I'll first point out that you need to work on being able to seperate tone from message, as it's clouding your view on the topic of me lying. Secondly, like I said before, I don't care. It's really pathetic that you keep bringing this up.

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Originally posted by Penintime

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What are you referring to here? There have been plenty of personal attacks but I'd hazard to say that most of them weren't coming from me.

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You called the guy childish, and pretty much a liar.

Then you expect them to act like you are all goodie goodie?

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Originally posted by Mirokata  A prospective player wants to know what the ambience of Xsyon is? Just watch a video or a stream. Here is a really recent stream that accurately shows that ambience: http://www.twitch.tv/massivelytv/b/326827805 (spoiler: she's running or dieing or being spawn camped for the entire 1 hr).

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Man thanks for the video that was great. Shows just how bad it was for a new player.

Lucky, they did just update this after being told this for over a year. They now have starting areas that are easy (areas around the lake) where animals are non aggressive and dont hit as hard.

So this should be a good start for new players to not get so upset about dying non stop.

Originally posted by Mirokata

I've played both. I've also played crafting centric sandboxes, like SWG and ATITD in the past -- absolutely love 'em.

 

Shallow comparison:

Minecraft is a fun game. You start with nothing, build a few simple tools, set up your base, further your technology, and eventually just free-build fun stuff. The tech and buildings are usually meaningful -- a diamond pickaxe is MUCH better than a wooden pickaxe; a shelter is necessary; redstone circuits can be useful. There are options to bypass the actual progression and resource gathering game and play in creative-mode if all you feel like doing is building an epic structure. There are also options for online vs and coop play since the servers are highly customizble. It is a sandbox.

Xsyon is not a fun game. You start with nothing, and will spend hours and days to build a few simple tools and set up your base. You will be killed repeatadly by animals and zombies while you do this, since you have no way to defend yourself. Once you build walls, the architecture game is done, unless you want to spend hours and days gathering materials to build completely useless structures. Instead of exploring the world or digging mines for resources, you will be walking across terrain poorly-skinned to look like a junk pile and tapping your "Scavenge" button, then after a 10 second progress bar, you get a random item usually completely useless to you. Specific item gathering is even worse -- you walk to "grass" terrain, start the 10 second progress bar, and then you recieve one unit of grass. Players can work together to hunt hard monsters, but there is no incentives since high-end gear is only slightly better than low-end gear. Players can work together to build cool looking tribe areas, but they do nothing. Calling this is a sandbox would be silly.

 

In the above two paragraphs, I tried to draw some comparisons between the two games on actual mechanics, but it's really being too kind to Xsyon and doesnt speak to the actual experience of playing the game. This is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

In-depth Comparison

Minecraft is a well-thought out, well-coded, and well-maintained game. It appears to have been designed with gameplay in mind. Progression through the early systems, though simple, is fun and rewarding. Eventually you encounter the games more complex systems: farming, animals, redstone, pistons, etc., and you want to explore these because they're not only interesting, but useful.

Xsyon is poorly thought out, is coded terribly, and has been limping through development worse than any game I've ever seen. It appears to have been designed with a concept in mind, and gameplay is just the result of how they coded that concept. Character creation demands that you spend time out-of-game researching through third-party forum posts how the game works, since the stats you choose here will GREATLY affect how the game plays and what you can do in the game. That said, this is not an intelligent decision you're making here, you just have to create your character without gimping it (which is easy to do). Early game progression is the worst grind I've ever experienced. In short, it involves a lot of: death to wildlife while gathering, progress bars, and inventory managment, since you will be picking up random items and receiving hundreds of useless items while you grind crafting. There are no more complex systems in Xsyon. 

Xsyon's individual systems are really bad, but when viewed as a whole, it's just nonsense. It looks and feels like hundreds of developers worked independantly, then just stitched it together. Keep in mind, this is an extremely small dev team working on Xsyon. It SHOULD be an extremely cohesive game for that reason, but it's not, it's the exact opposite.

 

Further problems

The problems with Xsyon's gameplay are HUGE, but the problems with Xsyon as a game, as a product, are far worse. In short, the lead developer is not capable of developing this game. He seems to develop completely blind, which turned out to be true since he proudly announced just recently that he has been playing his own game. He doesn't understand the complexities of his own game (ex. every creature is global, yet he is frustrated that he recieves "conflicting feedback" on the difficulty of creatures -- he doesn't understand that this is because new players and veterans are interacting with the same creatures, despite this being pointed out numerous times). His priorities are completely dependant on what he feels like doing, and not at all what is needed for the game -- he's just plain out-of-touch (Ex. A recent answer in his Q&A: "I'm sorry that we had to switch gears and focus on our website rather than the crafting update. It wasn't what we planned. This was highly recommended by the ad agency we're working with and it needs to be done."  and "Regarding the number of players, the main problem right now is that we don't get enough exposure. Our coming advertisements should solve that"). Finally, he doesn't even realize he's doing a bad job (Ex. "We do our best. In my opinion the game is constantly improving. With each round of development we try to balance adding new features with improving current features and optimizing the client and server. Many small improvements go forgotten shortly after we release them, but the game is definitely far improved from a year ago in all respects").

Xsyon has some interesting core-concepts, but make no mistake about it, the game is an absolutely atrocity. Updates are not "patches", only more garbage to add to the existing uncohesive pile. If any game needs to be left to die, it is Xsyon.

This sadly should have been the end of the thread. Anyone thats played Xsyon will pretty much tell you the same with the exception of the developers and maybe a few die hard fans. Xsyon had some great ideas, but they were so badly done almost everyone following the game has moved on and forgotten about it. I actually assumed it shut down awhile back until I saw this thread in the news feed lol.