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Xsyon Forum » General Discussion » Still too frustrating for new players.

15 posts found
  Ashglonteri

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 11

 
OP  8/12/12 10:56:20 AM#1

If you plan to play this game solo, you are in for a shock. The games mechanics allow for solo play but are designed around group play, and atm make it very hard to play solo. 

Even small animals like rats and marmots and rabbits will have 3-4 times as much HP as you and will do at least 3 times the damage to you as you can do to them. Needless to say, you wont get alot accomplished dying all the time to tiny livestock. 

Many things have been greatly improved and I am not saying that there is no appeal, but if you don't have a few friends to join with you, or you don't join a tribe with 6-10 active players you are probably wasting your time. 

The new revenants they put it are very tough for new players ( shoot even for many vets ) and they stick to the areas they spawn. Animals spawn all over and are a much greater cause of irritation. 

Some of you more hardcore types will think this post is some sort of whine, but I would challenge you to join the game and check it out before you think I am exaggerating. Even hardcore players need to build structures to keep out the riffrafff.  

Build walls and don't depend on dirt piles to protect you as animals can climb ANY dirt you put up. 

 

 

 

 

 

  Fishmitts

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/09
Posts: 239

8/12/12 11:09:30 AM#2
I played about a year ago, and I really liked it. But yea, the game is better played with others. I was hoping for improvments because I would like to re-visit. Thanks for the heads up. Ohh well, back to DayZ.  :)
  Banden

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/11
Posts: 85

8/16/12 11:26:33 AM#3
Why would you want to play an MMORPG solo? :) Its not a design flaw in any case, just dont start out solo, you can actually set your start location to some of the larger tribes if that will help, just remember to announce yourself, some of them will kill you if you dont belong, even if you are a newbie. (for people who know me from ingame: Yes im aware of the irony, I was a solo player myself) :P
  MrDDT

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 281

8/16/12 6:33:14 PM#4
Originally posted by Ashglonteri

If you plan to play this game solo, you are in for a shock. The games mechanics allow for solo play but are designed around group play, and atm make it very hard to play solo. 

Even small animals like rats and marmots and rabbits will have 3-4 times as much HP as you and will do at least 3 times the damage to you as you can do to them. Needless to say, you wont get alot accomplished dying all the time to tiny livestock. 

Many things have been greatly improved and I am not saying that there is no appeal, but if you don't have a few friends to join with you, or you don't join a tribe with 6-10 active players you are probably wasting your time. 

The new revenants they put it are very tough for new players ( shoot even for many vets ) and they stick to the areas they spawn. Animals spawn all over and are a much greater cause of irritation. 

Some of you more hardcore types will think this post is some sort of whine, but I would challenge you to join the game and check it out before you think I am exaggerating. Even hardcore players need to build structures to keep out the riffrafff.  

Build walls and don't depend on dirt piles to protect you as animals can climb ANY dirt you put up. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldnt disagree more. This game is solo friendly. It has a steep learning curve so its not NEW player friendly but once you get past being new, its very very much solo player friendly. Too friendly IMO.

-MrDDT

  natonn

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/06
Posts: 20

9/02/12 4:21:09 PM#5
I second this.
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2696

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

11/24/12 7:38:00 PM#6
Originally posted by Banden
Why would you want to play an MMORPG solo? :) Its not a design flaw in any case, just dont start out solo, you can actually set your start location to some of the larger tribes if that will help, just remember to announce yourself, some of them will kill you if you dont belong, even if you are a newbie. (for people who know me from ingame: Yes im aware of the irony, I was a solo player myself) :P

I played UO strictly solo as my goal was personal to me and I doubt others wanted to help me save up for my keep. Just because a open goal (aka sandbox) mmo is solo friendly, doesn't take away from it's ability to make a player feel like they belong to a larger, dynamic community.

 

Their is a reason these new age sandbox mmos fail on so many levels.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

11/24/12 7:46:59 PM#7
I would be subbed for more months if they did 2 things.
1) slowed down the run speed of small animals, (ive never been able to hit one)
2) increased the rate of scavenging old saw blades and make them spawn in every area, not just 2 sectors
  nkitz

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 79

11/24/12 9:51:42 PM#8
Having higher scavenging skill does help on finding those rarer items. I pick them up more often than I used to but I have 100 scavenging skill as well. Small animals could move slower.
  MrDDT

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 281

11/25/12 8:20:39 AM#9


Originally posted by xDayx I would be subbed for more months if they did 2 things. 1) slowed down the run speed of small animals, (ive never been able to hit one) 2) increased the rate of scavenging old saw blades and make them spawn in every area, not just 2 sectors
First, I think slowing them down would make it more fun, but better would give players a ranged attack instead of breaking rabbits to move like a snail.

 

Old saw blades are pretty easy to find, and making it so that they spawn in every zone breaks the resource distribution system. Why do you feel they should spawn in every zone? I can give you reasons why they shouldnt, but mostly it applies to the economy system which isnt even remotely working.

-MrDDT

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/25/12 8:28:15 AM#10
Originally posted by Ashglonteri

Some of you more hardcore types will think this post is some sort of whine, but I would challenge you to join the game and check it out before you think I am exaggerating.

Naw, that isn't what it sounds like.  Desperation marketing would be first bet.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Aethaeryn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 1898

11/25/12 8:31:31 AM#11
Originally posted by xDayx
I would be subbed for more months if they did 2 things.
1) slowed down the run speed of small animals, (ive never been able to hit one)
2) increased the rate of scavenging old saw blades and make them spawn in every area, not just 2 sectors

I know they changed things so that the further away you went the better things you got while scavenging.  Not sure if that is still the case.  I recall only finding coal in one spot and thought that was awesome (the problem was it was not regenerating then. . and was not used for anything).

 

The combat is a little tough, but I am guessing you built a  balanced character or a crafter focused character rather than a combat character?  it takes a LOT longer to get skills up from when I last played.

 

As to the OP, I am glad they made it harder to solo even though I enjoyed playing solo before.  The reason it needs to be harder is because previously if you joined a group there was nothing to do because everyone could already do most things, there was no item quality and no reason for someone to focus on one area or skill (aside from available time to play).

Previously, the game died (for me anyway) once you joined a group that had stockpiles of everything . . there was no point to playing. . so if they made it harder to play solo that likely made the group mechanics better which is enough to bring me back.  I thought the game was very cool as far as forcing neighbours (solo players) to work together.  If they have made that even more important than I am in.

Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6751

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

11/25/12 8:44:37 AM#12

That is exactly the way FFXI was designed and it worked awesome,it is exactly the way i like a game to be done.You NEVER want to encourage soloing in a MMO,what is the point?

That is not to say soloing should not be possible,it is to say grouping SHOULD be the main function.

I believe in FFXI's case,the Japanese culture believed in hardship and earning your way and it was felt in the entire game.What they did was allow for you to sort of solo but you had to first earn a level 30 class ,then you could pick from elite classes that had a chance of soloing.Example the prime soloing class in the game was and still is the Beastmaster,get level 30 and you could solo to your hearts content as a BST.Go bst/dncr and you cover many criteria for soloing.

My point is that to make it work by now day standards,you still need to have some goal for players,IF they want to solo more often than not,but do not EVER cater a MMO to soloing.

Another idea FFX Iencorporated was bonus xp if you killed a EM [even match] within a certain time.obviously grouping allowed this to happen more readily than soloing,so again the incentive to group.Again my point is that you can give a game soloing,but cater again more to grouping.

It is merely up to Xyson to create a good class system and to encourage players to group.I "think" the reason FFXI went to a more solo friendly change is because after many years,you will not have the same ability to group in low level areas as when the majority of players were still leveling most classes in noob areas.That is the sort of thing Xyson needs to look at when making design changes.

you cannot simply make one design and not think about change,it al ldepends on the player base and age of a game.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  MrDDT

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 281

11/25/12 11:38:51 AM#13


Originally posted by Wizardry That is exactly the way FFXI was designed and it worked awesome,it is exactly the way i like a game to be done.You NEVER want to encourage soloing in a MMO,what is the point? That is not to say soloing should not be possible,it is to say grouping SHOULD be the main function. I believe in FFXI's case,the Japanese culture believed in hardship and earning your way and it was felt in the entire game.What they did was allow for you to sort of solo but you had to first earn a level 30 class ,then you could pick from elite classes that had a chance of soloing.Example the prime soloing class in the game was and still is the Beastmaster,get level 30 and you could solo to your hearts content as a BST.Go bst/dncr and you cover many criteria for soloing. My point is that to make it work by now day standards,you still need to have some goal for players,IF they want to solo more often than not,but do not EVER cater a MMO to soloing. Another idea FFX Iencorporated was bonus xp if you killed a EM [even match] within a certain time.obviously grouping allowed this to happen more readily than soloing,so again the incentive to group.Again my point is that you can give a game soloing,but cater again more to grouping. It is merely up to Xyson to create a good class system and to encourage players to group.I "think" the reason FFXI went to a more solo friendly change is because after many years,you will not have the same ability to group in low level areas as when the majority of players were still leveling most classes in noob areas.That is the sort of thing Xyson needs to look at when making design changes. you cannot simply make one design and not think about change,it al ldepends on the player base and age of a game.
 

Your main point of not encouraging people to solo is valid but I think some of your points are not valid.

1)Soloing is not good for an MMORPG as MMO's are meant to be played with others. Like you said solo should be an option but not encouraged.

2)Solo is bad for the economy. When everyone is solo, economy suffers due to the lack of teamwork type goals. When all the goals in the game are of normal difficulty for a solo player, then a group of even bad players can easy defeat them.

3)Class system has nothing to do with solo or group play. I don't think it should even be in the same topic. Again the key is balance of skill system, nothing to do with classes. Xsyon has done a poor job in making skills useful.


All in all I feel that the solo play is so enforced in Xsyon is 2 reasons.

1)Xsyon doesnt want to offend anyone. Thinking of making it pretty easy for solo players is not offending them, and still allowing team/clans/groups to do anything else. Problem with this is that groups of players have no challenge at all. Solo players are the only ones with any type of challenge. Which also is to say, not much of one.
2)Xsyon is getting bad feedback from players. After the 1000s of players quit at release, we are now left with players that really are not all that good. They dont want to have to struggle, they want everything given to them on a silver platter. Or so Xsyon thinks because this is what the few people he listens to is telling him.
Let me explain this a little more. Take the PVP in Xsyon. If you try doing PVP in Xsyon and you do well at it, expect to be banned, kicked, or berated by the community and devs/guides. Instead of promoting teamwork and players to rise up and defend themselves from the few (very very few) pvpers. They go the other directions of pushing the PVPers down using things like bannings, warnings from guides/devs and other actions. Even player ran events are being protected by Guides from PVP. Which makes no sense to me in an open PVP world. Why not just have players protect themselves? This will promote players to want to use weapons of higher crafted, armor of highest crafting, and build defenses. On top of that bring players together for a reason to play/fight. These events should be defended by players, not by some made up rule a Guide believes it should be.
This goes to the core of some of the choices and issues that Xsyon faces.

 

-MrDDT

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5322

10/15/13 7:20:01 PM#14

I can explain the solo appeal for MMOs

 

1. MMO world is usually much larger than a single player game. Some players (like myself) like to have very long term gaming plans (like in years) you cant have a year long plan in a single player game.

2. Solo players want to contribute to the whole but they prefer to do their actions alone. This is true in the real world. Many introverts still want to live in a city and they still want to work on projects that are helpful to others they just don't want to work around others or be told what to do.

 

MMOs that are able to play solo but at the same time have no affect on the greater world are bad designs.

An example if a good design for solo players might be something like this

 

'Hey guys I have collected all the mats I need to craft this boat but I need one more very special item and I cant get it alone. If you get that for me I can build this boat for you guys'

 

added: so the design in Xsyon is also interesting. I can be a neighbor over the hill but if I need a tool made I can show up in your camp with a bunch of supplies you need.

 

Correlation does not imply causation

  eldaris

Novice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 326

4/01/14 6:53:11 AM#15

MMO not FMO - nothing in name of genre says about forced grouping just sharing a massive world with other players. This debate aside,thanks OP - I was thinking to give this game a try thinking it is an open sandbox game like ultima or swg but it seems they went for themepark(EQ while having limited "attractions" was still a themepark)style forced grouping.
Too bad because the pve server looked interesting - no wonder modern sandboxes fail to attract players, forced grouping and ffa pvp will keep them being an insignificant niche. Speaking of niche,just realized that the post I replied was from 2013.