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TERA Forum » Reviews & Impressions » A girls review

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43 posts found
  spiralpen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 36

 
OP  5/22/12 7:30:20 AM#21
Originally posted by Killsmallchi

Summary of my girlfriends review:

OMG I look so cute, can I buy clothes? WAIT LETS KILL THINGS, awesome.

end of review

haha! Cute :D

  Reas43

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/11
Posts: 308

5/22/12 7:31:54 AM#22
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by spiralpen
Originally posted by Adalwulff

What part of "girl" is in that review?

Was there some special point that only girls can see? I dont get it...

I wrote the title mostly because of the controversy posted about how girls "hated" the game, and the fact is that I dont. I realise I probably didnt bind that together all that well, I got sidetracked :)

Sorry if I lured you in here on false pretences :o

Well you dont but, generally speaking, women does not appreciate being depicted into such sexualized way in media to the extent that this game does it so that is probably why it is assumed that most women dont like it.

Heck Im a male and I dont even appreciate it but for other reasons. There is no way I can not find it absurd that mini-skirts and bikini-armor protect as much as fully body covered armor does. And an Elin Berserker or Lancer going toe to toe with a Aman one? Sorry but it is just beyond absurd. It would be like starring Woddy Allen in the role of Conan.

 

I still don't get it. Out of 7 races, one is a race of succubus and incubi. People who roll a succubus might want the attributes of a succubus. Those who don't can roll a human, elf, Aman, Baraka, critter and if they like playing with doll they got their Elins. If the succubus happens to be popular, blame the players and their choice, the game offers options - it's the players who choose them. Just don't roll a succubus / incubus and protest because it dresses and animates like a seductress or pimp.
  spiralpen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 36

 
OP  5/22/12 7:33:00 AM#23
Originally posted by Ausare
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by spiralpen
Originally posted by StarI

banana-ram into your bam? Noughty... :>

 

On a more serious note, I had a similar experience.

After a long MMO career and thousands of done quests, I felt a bit bored durring the first few levels. Something made me push over to around 22 and by that point I had a few more skills to play with and monsters became more engaging, especially the big baddies, aka BAMs. Each new zone felt more beautiful than previous and I felt like getting further in. Might add I never really liked Asian MMO stile.

I'm over 50 by now. Have to point out, it's still quite repetitive tho. And unless devs figure out how to make end-game a bit sandbox flavoured - there could be room for it on political/PvP aspect - I don't see myself and many others playing this game for a very long time.

haha!

Well.. I think devs everywhere need to realise people will get to top level faster than most expect, they work on several 100 hrs of (content, or grind.. or whatever) and people do like only some of it being excited about end game things, then again they got to also make it so people stick all the way up to end game, im so glad im not a developer, id loose my mind!

Why wasn't this an issue in games like EQ and Asheron's Call? It took a full year for someone to hit the level cap in Asheron's Call, imagine that in a "modern" MMORPG. So obviously it is not just the players but rather the developers catering to casual gamers which ofcourse will make the hardcore gamers beat the game in no time.

Time and time again the player base willing to just grind as in EQ and AC is very small.  Thus there is little money or desire for those games to be made again.  The trick would be to make a game where players of all levels/skills/etc. can partake in all parts of the game a various degrees so that people will not feel the rush to have to catch up and be part of the "end game".

And even if they added in as feature like "oldschool mode" where you level up slower and it gets harder but you get more exp from mobs, then most who try the game would hate it , then they wouldnt give it a try again :(

  spiralpen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 36

 
OP  5/22/12 7:59:45 AM#24
[mod edit]
  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6397

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

5/22/12 8:37:34 AM#25
Originally posted by Ausare
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by spiralpen
Originally posted by StarI

banana-ram into your bam? Noughty... :>

 

On a more serious note, I had a similar experience.

After a long MMO career and thousands of done quests, I felt a bit bored durring the first few levels. Something made me push over to around 22 and by that point I had a few more skills to play with and monsters became more engaging, especially the big baddies, aka BAMs. Each new zone felt more beautiful than previous and I felt like getting further in. Might add I never really liked Asian MMO stile.

I'm over 50 by now. Have to point out, it's still quite repetitive tho. And unless devs figure out how to make end-game a bit sandbox flavoured - there could be room for it on political/PvP aspect - I don't see myself and many others playing this game for a very long time.

haha!

Well.. I think devs everywhere need to realise people will get to top level faster than most expect, they work on several 100 hrs of (content, or grind.. or whatever) and people do like only some of it being excited about end game things, then again they got to also make it so people stick all the way up to end game, im so glad im not a developer, id loose my mind!

Why wasn't this an issue in games like EQ and Asheron's Call? It took a full year for someone to hit the level cap in Asheron's Call, imagine that in a "modern" MMORPG. So obviously it is not just the players but rather the developers catering to casual gamers which ofcourse will make the hardcore gamers beat the game in no time.

Time and time again the player base willing to just grind as in EQ and AC is very small.  Thus there is little money or desire for those games to be made again.  The trick would be to make a game where players of all levels/skills/etc. can partake in all parts of the game a various degrees so that people will not feel the rush to have to catch up and be part of the "end game".

EQ had a top player base of 500k, Asheron's Call 300k, Eve has a player base of 350k. So you need to revise your "very small" to "non-WoW numbers" because, even these days, those numbers are respectable. Specially considering that they kept those numbers for a couple of years where as current MMORPGs rarely have more than 500k sustained subscriber base but rather just have those numbers for less than a year before dropping down to 1-200k.

So there is definetely a healthy player base for more difficult and harder MMOs, it is just that devs are blinded by WoW's numbers and are trying again and again to get the same number and again and again keep failing. One day they will need to learn and adapt and realise that casual MMOs are not the only way to go.

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6397

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

5/22/12 8:40:08 AM#26
Originally posted by Reas43
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by spiralpen
Originally posted by Adalwulff

What part of "girl" is in that review?

Was there some special point that only girls can see? I dont get it...

I wrote the title mostly because of the controversy posted about how girls "hated" the game, and the fact is that I dont. I realise I probably didnt bind that together all that well, I got sidetracked :)

Sorry if I lured you in here on false pretences :o

Well you dont but, generally speaking, women does not appreciate being depicted into such sexualized way in media to the extent that this game does it so that is probably why it is assumed that most women dont like it.

Heck Im a male and I dont even appreciate it but for other reasons. There is no way I can not find it absurd that mini-skirts and bikini-armor protect as much as fully body covered armor does. And an Elin Berserker or Lancer going toe to toe with a Aman one? Sorry but it is just beyond absurd. It would be like starring Woddy Allen in the role of Conan.

 

I still don't get it. Out of 7 races, one is a race of succubus and incubi. People who roll a succubus might want the attributes of a succubus. Those who don't can roll a human, elf, Aman, Baraka, critter and if they like playing with doll they got their Elins. If the succubus happens to be popular, blame the players and their choice, the game offers options - it's the players who choose them. Just don't roll a succubus / incubus and protest because it dresses and animates like a seductress or pimp.

This argument is only valid in single player games. In multiplayer games these races will be in your groups, in your guilds and even killing you in PvP so there is no way to avoid them, as you seem to be suggesting.

And there is a huge difference between a Succubus and a pre-teen girl dressed in skimpy outfit. Huge, difference.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16664

5/22/12 8:55:38 AM#27
Originally posted by Yamota
 

Well you dont but, generally speaking, women does not appreciate being depicted into such sexualized way in media to the extent that this game does it so that is probably why it is assumed that most women dont like it.

Heck Im a male and I dont even appreciate it but for other reasons. There is no way I can not find it absurd that mini-skirts and bikini-armor protect as much as fully body covered armor does. And an Elin Berserker or Lancer going toe to toe with a Aman one? Sorry but it is just beyond absurd. It would be like starring Woddy Allen in the role of Conan.

That's because you take everything literally. Or at least that's how you seem to be with comments like that.

You are trying to apply what you know about armor and weapons and physics and not thinking that "hey maybe this is about something else".

If people would disconnect their preconceptions about what these artists are aiming for, whether you like it or not, you might actually understand it better.

It's more about style and presentation. It's almost like a super hero mind set. Do you start applying your ideas of size and armor coverage to super heroes? Proabably not. This is because there is a convention in place where a suspension of disbelief needs to be reached in order to buy the whole "I'm a super hero in a leotard and I happen to have "powers".

Same goes with these asian games. The characters are larger than life "super heroes" of a sort. They are fancy and dress well or dress whimsically. It's not about whether the fauld covers enough or whether the weight of a sword moves as quickly as these games depict.

It's not about what you want it to be about.

Also, women sometimes do want to be depicted as sexual beings and there is even a mode of thought that women should own and use their sexuality.

What they don't want are men telling them how they should be if they dont' choose to be that way themselves.

Some women love lingerie and corsets, some prefer a laura ashely style and some just want a t-shirt and jeans. the sexy comes from within. Additionally some women really dont care about women's lib. Really. And some women dont' really care about men at all.

It's a diverse bunch out there.

  spiralpen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 36

 
OP  5/22/12 8:58:58 AM#28
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Yamota
 

Well you dont but, generally speaking, women does not appreciate being depicted into such sexualized way in media to the extent that this game does it so that is probably why it is assumed that most women dont like it.

Heck Im a male and I dont even appreciate it but for other reasons. There is no way I can not find it absurd that mini-skirts and bikini-armor protect as much as fully body covered armor does. And an Elin Berserker or Lancer going toe to toe with a Aman one? Sorry but it is just beyond absurd. It would be like starring Woddy Allen in the role of Conan.

That's because you take everything literally. Or at least that's how you seem to be with comments like that.

You are trying to apply what you know about armor and weapons and physics and not thinking that "hey maybe this is about something else".

If people would disconnect their preconceptions about what these artists are aiming for, whether you like it or not, you might actually understand it better.

It's more about style and presentation. It's almost like a super hero mind set. Do you start applying your ideas of size and armor coverage to super heroes? Proabably not. This is because there is a convention in place where a suspension of disbelief needs to be reached in order to buy the whole "I'm a super hero in a leotard and I happen to have "powers".

Same goes with these asian games. The characters are larger than life "super heroes" of a sort. They are fancy and dress well or dress whimsically. It's not about whether the fauld covers enough or whether the weight of a sword moves as quickly as these games depict.

It's not about what you want it to be about.

Also, women sometimes do want to be depicted as sexual beings and there is even a mode of thought that women should own and use their sexuality.

What they don't want are men telling them how they should be if they dont' choose to be that way themselves.

Some women love lingerie and corsets, some prefer a laura ashely style and some just want a t-shirt and jeans. the sexy comes from within. Additionally some women really dont care about women's lib. Really. And some women dont' really care about men at all.

It's a diverse bunch out there.

Agree completely with what you just said!

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6397

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

5/22/12 10:01:51 AM#29
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Yamota
 

Well you dont but, generally speaking, women does not appreciate being depicted into such sexualized way in media to the extent that this game does it so that is probably why it is assumed that most women dont like it.

Heck Im a male and I dont even appreciate it but for other reasons. There is no way I can not find it absurd that mini-skirts and bikini-armor protect as much as fully body covered armor does. And an Elin Berserker or Lancer going toe to toe with a Aman one? Sorry but it is just beyond absurd. It would be like starring Woddy Allen in the role of Conan.

That's because you take everything literally. Or at least that's how you seem to be with comments like that.

You are trying to apply what you know about armor and weapons and physics and not thinking that "hey maybe this is about something else".

If people would disconnect their preconceptions about what these artists are aiming for, whether you like it or not, you might actually understand it better.

It's more about style and presentation. It's almost like a super hero mind set. Do you start applying your ideas of size and armor coverage to super heroes? Proabably not. This is because there is a convention in place where a suspension of disbelief needs to be reached in order to buy the whole "I'm a super hero in a leotard and I happen to have "powers".

Same goes with these asian games. The characters are larger than life "super heroes" of a sort. They are fancy and dress well or dress whimsically. It's not about whether the fauld covers enough or whether the weight of a sword moves as quickly as these games depict.

It's not about what you want it to be about.

In western culture, fantasy is not considered to be same as the super-hero genre. So when you see Ned Stark wielding a huge two handed sword or people jausting in a tournament you dont expect those armors to be just for looks but rather for protection and you actually expect the person wielding that sword to have the upper body strength for it. So suspension of disbelief works in a particular context so if in a Tolkien movie you see a person flying around like SuperMan and lifting castlest it would be absurd but giant flying eagles not because it fits in that context.

So yes it is not about what I want it to be but rather what that particular genre is expected to be like.

Also, women sometimes do want to be depicted as sexual beings and there is even a mode of thought that women should own and use their sexuality.

What they don't want are men telling them how they should be if they dont' choose to be that way themselves.

Some women love lingerie and corsets, some prefer a laura ashely style and some just want a t-shirt and jeans. the sexy comes from within. Additionally some women really dont care about women's lib. Really. And some women dont' really care about men at all.

It's a diverse bunch out there.

This is so contradictory on so many levels. First of all I can bet good money that it is by a far majority men who are calling the shots regarding Tera because believe it or not, game development is still a male dominated industry. So it is, most likely, MEN who are dressing women in this fashion.

Then you are going on about external attributes, lingerie, corset etc and then talk about beauty coming from within? I am not going to go into that subject, because I didn't even go into the area where "men telling them how they should be if they dont' choose to be that way themselves." I simply stated that, generally speaking, women dont want to be depicted in media in a way that mostly shows their sexual attributes. Bikini-armor is a perfect example of that where something that is supposed to cover and protect your body, and which it does on male character, is doing the complete opposite on female characters and this is generally considered sexist.

And this is based on prominent feminist talking about this subject but also many ordinary women because the claim is that if female are depicted primarly on their sexual attributes it would show them as a primarly sexual object rather than a thinking person. And to make this point again, this is not me telling women how to dress (no idea how you got into that) but rather this is a common argument voiced by many organisations, feminist or otherwise.

Now personally I dont care what women are wearing or not wearing, however if I am playing a fantasy game I expect female warriors to be depicted like this:

Rather than this:

Because the former fits much better in a fantasy setting and I dont care what "the artist is aiming for" One looks ridicilous and silly and the other one looks believable and respectable.

Now one could claim that this silly style is what TERA is going for but the fact is that you have the vicious looking Aman and this is a huge mismatch in style compared to this pre-teen sexualized girl/rabitt hybrid. They simply dont fit together.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16664

5/22/12 3:06:52 PM#30
Originally posted by Yamota
 

This is so contradictory on so many levels. First of all I can bet good money that it is by a far majority men who are calling the shots regarding Tera because believe it or not, game development is still a male dominated industry. So it is, most likely, MEN who are dressing women in this fashion.

Then you are going on about external attributes, lingerie, corset etc and then talk about beauty coming from within? I am not going to go into that subject, because I didn't even go into the area where "men telling them how they should be if they dont' choose to be that way themselves." I simply stated that, generally speaking, women dont want to be depicted in media in a way that mostly shows their sexual attributes. Bikini-armor is a perfect example of that where something that is supposed to cover and protect your body, and which it does on male character, is doing the complete opposite on female characters and this is generally considered sexist.

And this is based on prominent feminist talking about this subject but also many ordinary women because the claim is that if female are depicted primarly on their sexual attributes it would show them as a primarly sexual object rather than a thinking person. And to make this point again, this is not me telling women how to dress (no idea how you got into that) but rather this is a common argument voiced by many organisations, feminist or otherwise.

Now personally I dont care what women are wearing or not wearing, however if I am playing a fantasy game I expect female warriors to be depicted like this:

 

Rather than this:

 

Because the former fits much better in a fantasy setting and I dont care what "the artist is aiming for" One looks ridicilous and silly and the other one looks believable and respectable.

Now one could claim that this silly style is what TERA is going for but the fact is that you have the vicious looking Aman and this is a huge mismatch in style compared to this pre-teen sexualized girl/rabitt hybrid. They simply dont fit together.

There's nothign contradictory at all.

How one wants to portray themselves whether it's gothic wear, or club wear or jeans and a T-Shirt is about presentation, about how they want to portray themselves.

There is external beauty as well as "internal beauty". They are beautiful for who they are and they choose to express themselves in any way they see fit. But you wouldn't get that because to you things are very literal, very black and white. Which goes directly to your comments about armor and weapons in these games. Again, that is what your comments seem to signify.

And of course it's still a male dominated industry. But here's a note for you, there are women out there in other industries who enjoy being "sexy" beings. Actually there are men who do as well.

Not every woman out there who appears in a lingerie catalog or a bikini spread is being forced at gun point to do it. Some do it because that's the business they are in and some actually enjoy it. The fallacy is that all women are the same (men as well). And again, there is a mode of women's lib that speaks to owning one's sexualtiy and using it.

As far as your comments on "Western" art design: this is eastern. Eastern. You are looking at an Eastern game and applying western sensibiltiies. That is the paradigm shift that you can't seem to make.

Thats' your issue. You have your stance, where you come from, and you evaluate everything from that stance without even considering the source.

So yes, when I see Ned Stark wielding a two hander I expect to see an armor and weapon style that is congruent with western fantasy expectations. When I watch somethign that is eastern I exprect to see something that is over the top stylized presentation. edit: I would add that if I saw Ned Stark in bikini armor not only would I think it fan fiction i would also note that it would be extremely out of place and not fitting western conventions.

Remember Yamota there are people who do see thigns differently and can easily bring that suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy a different type of setting.

  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

5/22/12 3:11:26 PM#31

haha, Tera STILL trying to market itself as full of girl players to attract more guys, lol....

 

A few months ago there was a post from a 'sexy Spanish' student who claimed twelve of her fellow dental hygine co-eds were all playing the game. (probably naked)

 

Now we get the Swedish girl?  What next? 13 Hentai voice actresses all play Tera? lol.

  Nevulus

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1184

5/22/12 3:29:15 PM#32

Pretty much sums up how everyone else I know feels about the game. 

in my small group we didn't expect anything from TERA, instead we got an awesome combat system that feels more like a quality hack-n-slash with MMO tidbits to keep our urges satisfied.

 

TERA was worth the initial investment. Overall I felt the leveling process was TOO fast. Then again I started playing MMOs very young and remember when leveling MEANT something. It was the JOURNEY and NOT the ENDGAME that mattered.

  Nevulus

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1184

5/22/12 3:32:06 PM#33
Originally posted by Dredphyre

haha, Tera STILL trying to market itself as full of girl players to attract more guys, lol....

 

A few months ago there was a post from a 'sexy Spanish' student who claimed twelve of her fellow dental hygine co-eds were all playing the game. (probably naked)

 

Now we get the Swedish girl?  What next? 13 Hentai voice actresses all play Tera? lol.

TERA isn't marketing itself as full of girls. Where is the ad or commercial where it shows a group of girls playing TERA? Cause I sure missed it. Matter of fact the TERA ad on MMORPG.com simply shows GAMEPLAY.

 

We have ONE review from a girl who plays TERA and states she was surprised how many other girls she found ingame, that's it. 

 

Stop trying to make something out of nothing. The topic you speak of was a troll attempt by rabid fans from another game trolling MMORPG.com. It was locked because it was ridiculous, off topic, & disruptive to the MMORPG.com community. Deal with it.

  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

5/22/12 3:42:26 PM#34
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by Dredphyre

haha, Tera STILL trying to market itself as full of girl players to attract more guys, lol....

 

A few months ago there was a post from a 'sexy Spanish' student who claimed twelve of her fellow dental hygine co-eds were all playing the game. (probably naked)

 

Now we get the Swedish girl?  What next? 13 Hentai voice actresses all play Tera? lol.

TERA isn't marketing itself as full of girls. Where is the ad or commercial where it shows a group of girls playing TERA? Cause I sure missed it. Matter of fact the TERA ad on MMORPG.com simply shows GAMEPLAY.

 

We have ONE review from a girl who plays TERA and states she was surprised how many other girls she found ingame, that's it. 

 

Stop trying to make something out of nothing. The topic you speak of was a troll attempt by rabid fans from another game trolling MMORPG.com. It was locked because it was ridiculous, off topic, & disruptive to the MMORPG.com community. Deal with it.

lol, does she actually state how surprised she was to see how many girls there were in game? LOL. Didn't bother to read this obvious marketing gimmick. That's the same EXACT line the Spanish dental Hyginist used in her post when she mentioned her 12 other dental hyginist girlfriends who were playing.  You dudes are falling for this viral marketing ploy hook line and sinker, lol.

Skimming over the OP, she mentions, coyly, her skimpy in-game clothing, and then describes how 'bouncy' she is...

/facepalm.

/applaud Tera.

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6397

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

5/22/12 3:48:23 PM#35
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Yamota
 

This is so contradictory on so many levels. First of all I can bet good money that it is by a far majority men who are calling the shots regarding Tera because believe it or not, game development is still a male dominated industry. So it is, most likely, MEN who are dressing women in this fashion.

Then you are going on about external attributes, lingerie, corset etc and then talk about beauty coming from within? I am not going to go into that subject, because I didn't even go into the area where "men telling them how they should be if they dont' choose to be that way themselves." I simply stated that, generally speaking, women dont want to be depicted in media in a way that mostly shows their sexual attributes. Bikini-armor is a perfect example of that where something that is supposed to cover and protect your body, and which it does on male character, is doing the complete opposite on female characters and this is generally considered sexist.

And this is based on prominent feminist talking about this subject but also many ordinary women because the claim is that if female are depicted primarly on their sexual attributes it would show them as a primarly sexual object rather than a thinking person. And to make this point again, this is not me telling women how to dress (no idea how you got into that) but rather this is a common argument voiced by many organisations, feminist or otherwise.

Now personally I dont care what women are wearing or not wearing, however if I am playing a fantasy game I expect female warriors to be depicted like this:

 

Rather than this:

 

Because the former fits much better in a fantasy setting and I dont care what "the artist is aiming for" One looks ridicilous and silly and the other one looks believable and respectable.

Now one could claim that this silly style is what TERA is going for but the fact is that you have the vicious looking Aman and this is a huge mismatch in style compared to this pre-teen sexualized girl/rabitt hybrid. They simply dont fit together.

There's nothign contradictory at all.

How one wants to portray themselves whether it's gothic wear, or club wear or jeans and a T-Shirt is about presentation, about how they want to portray themselves.

There is external beauty as well as "internal beauty". They are beautiful for who they are and they choose to express themselves in any way they see fit. But you wouldn't get that because to you things are very literal, very black and white. Which goes directly to your comments about armor and weapons in these games. Again, that is what your comments seem to signify.

And of course it's still a male dominated industry. But here's a note for you, there are women out there in other industries who enjoy being "sexy" beings. Actually there are men who do as well.

Not every woman out there who appears in a lingerie catalog or a bikini spread is being forced at gun point to do it. Some do it because that's the business they are in and some actually enjoy it. The fallacy is that all women are the same (men as well). And again, there is a mode of women's lib that speaks to owning one's sexualtiy and using it.

As far as your comments on "Western" art design: this is eastern. Eastern. You are looking at an Eastern game and applying western sensibiltiies. That is the paradigm shift that you can't seem to make.

Thats' your issue. You have your stance, where you come from, and you evaluate everything from that stance without even considering the source.

So yes, when I see Ned Stark wielding a two hander I expect to see an armor and weapon style that is congruent with western fantasy expectations. When I watch somethign that is eastern I exprect to see something that is over the top stylized presentation. edit: I would add that if I saw Ned Stark in bikini armor not only would I think it fan fiction i would also note that it would be extremely out of place and not fitting western conventions.

Remember Yamota there are people who do see thigns differently and can easily bring that suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy a different type of setting.

It is an Eastern created game being promoted and sold in the West. So then they cannot act all butt-hurt when people in the west are criticizing it using their inherent western sensibilities. It is not like I am importing some anime stuff and then complaining about it, this game is being promoted in the West and I did not see anywhere about it being promoted as an Eastern type Fantasy game. I look at the Elin and I get creeped out. I see the skimpy bikini-armor and find it silly, eastern, western, northern, southern, whatever. It is how I feel and stand by it.

As for your comment about women, again you are going into discussions, claiming stuff which I am not saying at all. I never said about people not wanting to be sexual beings or whatever. What I said, and I thought I was quite clear about this, is the notion that depicting women in media purely from a sexual point of view is considered by many people to be sexist.

This is not about women or men being sexual beings or wanting to dress in this or that way, that is completely beside the point. It is about how female characters are being depicted in popular media. Two completely different things, which you for some reason cannot separate and go on with all people being different (duh), wanting to express themselves bla bla bla and so on. Strawman arguments and again completely beside the point. This is not people, this is media (run by men) depicting women in stereotypical  and, for me, tasteless manner.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16664

5/22/12 4:09:14 PM#36
Originally posted by Yamota
 

It is an Eastern created game being promoted and sold in the West. So then they cannot act all butt-hurt when people in the west are criticizing it using their inherent western sensibilities. It is not like I am importing some anime stuff and then complaining about it, this game is being promoted in the West and I did not see anywhere about it being promoted as an Eastern type Fantasy game. I look at the Elin and I get creeped out. I see the skimpy bikini-armor and find it silly, eastern, western, northern, southern, whatever. It is how I feel and stand by it.

As for your comment about women, again you are going into discussions, claiming stuff which I am not saying at all. I never said about people not wanting to be sexual beings or whatever. What I said, and I thought I was quite clear about this, is the notion that depicting women in media purely from a sexual point of view is considered by many people to be sexist.

This is not about women or men being sexual beings or wanting to dress in this or that way, that is completely beside the point. It is about how female characters are being depicted in popular media. Two completely different things, which you for some reason cannot separate and go on with all people being different (duh), wanting to express themselves bla bla bla and so on. Strawman arguments and again completely beside the point. This is not people, this is media (run by men) depicting women in stereotypical  and, for me, tasteless manner.

To the first point it is an eastern game being promoted in the west (as you say) and it makes perfect and complete sense that people in the west wouldn't like it. however that realy isn't the issue. I never care if someeone likes something or not but I do care that they are liking it or not liking it for the right reasons.

People hate over the top skimpy armor and fighting in high heel pumps? good. You are entitled to your opinion. People hate it because of the "realism" and that armor and weapons could never be like that? Well that just seems silly and goes back to my original stance regarding "super heroes".

I don't like dance music. It doesn't appeal to me and I find it boring to listen to. But you know where dance music really shines? In dance clubs! Why? because it has a driving and predictiable rhythm that allows people to move on the dance floor. Any music that I would listen to would just not work in a dance club. So, though I still dont like dance music I understand why it is the way it is and can respect that it's this way for a very palpable reason that actually works.  I dont' go into dance clubs but if I did I wouldn't stand their sulking and making derogatory comments that might ruin the mood of the people who do like this type of experience.

Same goes with eastern games. you might not like them or appreciate their art style but there is a definite cultural thrust to these things that make them unique.

As far as the second point, if it was just men who were calling the shots as to how women are portrayed and only men were partaking of this content then yes you might have a point. but there are many women who have a hand in how women are portrayed and there are many women who like this type of content and who are interested in it. Rememver, the head of Vogue is a woman. Her right hand in the company is also a woman.

American's Next Top Model was controlled by a woman. people might not like this stuff but I don't remember the episode where they all sat around and lamented showing cleavage.

I think it's too easy to use the "It's a male dominated world" when in this day and age there are many women who are part of the process. Interesting enough, none of the women in my guild seem to have any issues with how the women are portrayed or even mind the Elin. They just think they are cute.

Just because women are shown in sexy ads and sexy movies doesnt' mean that everyone, men and women, think it's bad. I personally recognize that the whole Conan thing is very male driven and how the depiction of women seems to come from male fantasy. However, that seems to be mitigated by the fact that you go to these conventions and find women dressed as "conan babes" or something close to it and they love the look and how it makes them feel to dress in that manner.

Not every scantily clad woman is being subjugated, not every elin has to be looked on as food for perverts and not every piece of armor has to look like it's fully functional.

 

  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

5/22/12 4:21:14 PM#37
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Ausare

Time and time again the player base willing to just grind as in EQ and AC is very small.  Thus there is little money or desire for those games to be made again.  The trick would be to make a game where players of all levels/skills/etc. can partake in all parts of the game a various degrees so that people will not feel the rush to have to catch up and be part of the "end game".

EQ had a top player base of 500k, Asheron's Call 300k, Eve has a player base of 350k. So you need to revise your "very small" to "non-WoW numbers" because, even these days, those numbers are respectable. Specially considering that they kept those numbers for a couple of years where as current MMORPGs rarely have more than 500k sustained subscriber base but rather just have those numbers for less than a year before dropping down to 1-200k.

 

No other MMORPG in the west, besides WoW, has managed to sustain over 400k subscribers over a full year.    EQ did it for over 5 years.

 

 

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1751

5/22/12 4:21:55 PM#38
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Yamota
 

It is an Eastern created game being promoted and sold in the West. So then they cannot act all butt-hurt when people in the west are criticizing it using their inherent western sensibilities. It is not like I am importing some anime stuff and then complaining about it, this game is being promoted in the West and I did not see anywhere about it being promoted as an Eastern type Fantasy game. I look at the Elin and I get creeped out. I see the skimpy bikini-armor and find it silly, eastern, western, northern, southern, whatever. It is how I feel and stand by it.

As for your comment about women, again you are going into discussions, claiming stuff which I am not saying at all. I never said about people not wanting to be sexual beings or whatever. What I said, and I thought I was quite clear about this, is the notion that depicting women in media purely from a sexual point of view is considered by many people to be sexist.

This is not about women or men being sexual beings or wanting to dress in this or that way, that is completely beside the point. It is about how female characters are being depicted in popular media. Two completely different things, which you for some reason cannot separate and go on with all people being different (duh), wanting to express themselves bla bla bla and so on. Strawman arguments and again completely beside the point. This is not people, this is media (run by men) depicting women in stereotypical  and, for me, tasteless manner.

 

Not every scantily clad woman is being subjugated, not every elin has to be looked on as food for perverts and not every piece of armor has to look like it's fully functional.

 

Exactly and well said.

My wife actually like the " sexy" fantasy characters in games. In no way does she see this as " exploitation of women" or what not.

You may not like it, but dont try to paint everyone with the same brush. especially women lol.

On topic. Good review OP, glad you are enjoying yourself. Bouncing Bikini top and all =)

  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

5/22/12 4:28:39 PM#39

Not trying to be a douche here but I don't see how a lot of the posters think this is a good review? It barely goes in depth and just summarizes thoughts and opinions that could have been more expanded and explained throughly, sounds more like an overview if anything. Sounds like a lot of sucking up to me (which I kind of have an idea why).

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16664

5/22/12 4:33:46 PM#40
Originally posted by xposeidon

Not trying to be a douche here but I don't see how a lot of the posters think this is a good review? It barely goes in depth and just summarizes thoughts and opinions that could have been more expanded and explained throughly, sounds more like an overview if anything. Sounds like a lot of sucking up to me (which I kind of have an idea why).

I dont' think anyone (many?) are saying it's a good review and I agree it's more like some personal impressions.

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